Richard Seymour has to be the most overrated player of all time.

[65 Toss Power Trap]

.

[65 Toss Power Trap]

3 minutes ago, chirorob said:

Are Swann and Stallworth in if they aren't on the Steelers?

Is Jerry Kramer in if he isn't on the Packers?

Great questions. Exactly my point. Some are in no matter who they played for. Others, right place and right time is a factor.

[JustInFudge]

38 minutes ago, Matt39 said:

Yeah I guess. Davis has the 2k season with a league and Super Bowl MVP though. 

100%.  He was MVP of the league as well but we both know, LT's dont get accolades like a QB or RB.  I also dont know if people remember just how good those Jags teams were when Boselli was anchoring those lines.  Those offenses could score, they were dangerous and made playoffs 4 straight years, (beat the Broncos one of those years) lost in the conference championship twice. Boselli was very much the leader of those teams.

[chirorob]

2 minutes ago, 65 Toss Power Trap said:

Great questions. Exactly my point. Some are in no matter who they played for. Others, right place and right time is a factor.

Swann and Bob Griese are my 2 biggest HOF players who should not be in.

Swann is in for basically 1 great SB (where he won MVP).   The guy averaged 2.9 receptions and 47 yards per game over his career.  He never had a season averaging 4 receptions or 65 yards per game.

As for Bob, in the Dolphins perfect season he missed almost the entire season, so that shows how important he was to those teams.

[chirorob]

57 minutes ago, JiFapono said:

I never said Davis didnt deserve to be in, he definitely to, dude was an MVP in one of the best years I've ever seen from an RB, but his knock was longevity, similar to Boselli.  All I was saying is, if you're going to put Davis in who only had 4 seasons of relevance and maybe only had 1 year as the RB1 in the NFL, then Boselli deserves it as well because he was arguably the best LT in the league for 5 straight years. 

TD had a good rookie season, 3 monster seasons including an all time amazing season with 2K yards and 21 TDs.

But, then he was done.  He did get an MVP and SB MVP, but I'm on the fence about him being in because basically it was a monster 3 year run.   Longevity should be part of being in the Hall.   On the other side, a lot of HOF running backs have a 3-4 year prime and then taper off, even Earl Campbell was really only ELITE for 3 years, with 2 other good seasons.

 

[65 Toss Power Trap]

13 minutes ago, chirorob said:

Swann and Bob Griese are my 2 biggest HOF players who should not be in.

Swann is in for basically 1 great SB (where he won MVP).   The guy averaged 2.9 receptions and 47 yards per game over his career.  He never had a season averaging 4 receptions or 65 yards per game.

As for Bob, in the Dolphins perfect season he missed almost the entire season, so that shows how important he was to those teams.

Yep. I agree on Swann. I've not looked into Griese, so I can't make a comment there. 

The one I struggle with is my favorite QB growing up--Steve Young. HOF numbers. He definitely belongs. But my struggle is, does he get there if he is not riding the coat tails of the 49ers coming out of the 80s into the 90s? I'm not so sure he's in if he was playing for another team. Maybe. 

[peebag]

16 minutes ago, chirorob said:

TD had a good rookie season, 3 monster seasons including an all time amazing season with 2K yards and 21 TDs.

But, then he was done.  He did get an MVP and SB MVP, but I'm on the fence about him being in because basically it was a monster 3 year run.   Longevity should be part of being in the Hall.   On the other side, a lot of HOF running backs have a 3-4 year prime and then taper off, even Earl Campbell was really only ELITE for 3 years, with 2 other good seasons.

 

A better example would be Gale Sayers IMO.

[chirorob]

12 minutes ago, 65 Toss Power Trap said:

Yep. I agree on Swann. I've not looked into Griese, so I can't make a comment there. 

The one I struggle with is my favorite QB growing up--Steve Young. HOF numbers. He definitely belongs. But my struggle is, does he get there if he is not riding the coat tails of the 49ers coming out of the 80s into the 90s? I'm not so sure he's in if he was playing for another team. Maybe. 

Young was put on the perfect team, with the perfect coach to help him change as a player.

Most QB's need the team around them to be that good.

[section314]

2 hours ago, Biggs said:

Based on what exactly?   He's good NFL career, zero all pro's and 2 pro-bowls?

You tell me.......Seymour  164 games, 57.5 sacks, 326 solo tackles

                         Ellis............184 games, 73.5 sacks, 411 solo tackles

[Matt39]

1 hour ago, JiFapono said:

100%.  He was MVP of the league as well but we both know, LT's dont get accolades like a QB or RB.  I also dont know if people remember just how good those Jags teams were when Boselli was anchoring those lines.  Those offenses could score, they were dangerous and made playoffs 4 straight years, (beat the Broncos one of those years) lost in the conference championship twice. Boselli was very much the leader of those teams.

Fred Taylor!

[Matt39]

43 minutes ago, section314 said:

You tell me.......Seymour  164 games, 57.5 sacks, 326 solo tackles

                         Ellis............184 games, 73.5 sacks, 411 solo tackles

I mean…neither are HOF’ers but gee whiz

[UntouchableCrew]

2 hours ago, JiFapono said:

Issue w/ Boselli?  He was the best LT in the league for a few years.  If you're going to put guys like Terrell Davis in, Bos definitely deserves it. 

I agree Boselli should be in but he's a weird case in the sense that he didn't have longevity and "Number of All Pros" is kind of the marker for OL considering casual observers don't really see their dominance.

[UntouchableCrew]

2 hours ago, munchmemory said:

Problem for us Jet fans is that we can't comprehend all the great players that team assembled over the years.  Plus all the SB wins/appearances.  It becomes overwhelming and clouds our collective minds, especially when comparing them to our guys and limited team success.

I agree.

If anything those early 2000s Pats teams are underrepresented.

People forget that Brady wasn't "Brady" back then. That was a defense first team.

[section314]

10 minutes ago, Matt39 said:

I mean…neither are HOF’ers but gee whiz

I agree. Ellis isn't a HOFer, more just trying to put Seymour into perspective. As the old saying goes, "Stats don't lie, people do."

[T0mShane]

Nice to see Boselli get voted in based on those three games where steroids didn’t turn his shoulder tendons into spaghetti.

[Matt39]

1 minute ago, T0mShane said:

Nice to see Boselli get voted in based on those three games where steroids didn’t turn his shoulder tendons into spaghetti.

How the heck is he in too? This class makes no sense.

[Larz]

First of all, how dare you make me check his career out

1st team all pro AP or PFWA or SN 5 times 

played 3 spots on D line

Classic 3-4 DE

I love hating on the cheaters but he’s legit 

[92ShaunEllis92]

16 hours ago, Matt39 said:

Hall of Fame? First ballot over Demarcus Ware? What?

Good player but did he ever make a big play? First ******* ballot?

He blocked a 31 yard FG attempt in the ‘03/‘04 Divisional round vs. the Titans which the Pats eeked out 17-14 victory over Tennesse on their way to winning the SB. 
 and was a 5x All-Pro (3 1st, 2 2nd) and 7x pro bowler  

He was on Championship defenses (plural).

Ware was incredible, but just produced and excelled in the individual level of sacks. He didn’t win a ring until as a mercenary with Denver. 
 

Seymour was the more complete defender in pass rush and run stopping  

 

just my 2¢

 

[New York Mick]

I was debating with a dolphins fan between Zach Thomas and Klecko and who deserves to be in the hall more. I’m sure you can guess who he thought. 

[Jet_Engine1]

On 2/11/2022 at 8:46 AM, LockeJET said:

Vince Wilfork was more important to that defense

So were Ty Law, Lawyer Milloy, Bruschi, Vrable....

[Jet_Engine1]

21 minutes ago, New York Mick said:

I was debating with a dolphins fan between Zach Thomas and Klecko and who deserves to be in the hall more. I’m sure you can guess who he thought. 

I should get in the NFL HOF before Zach ******* Thomas

[southparkcpa]

On 2/11/2022 at 1:06 PM, Matt39 said:

How the heck is he in too? This class makes no sense.

None of these guys pass the 1st impression test.       

[Rangers9]

One thing about Seymour that might prove he was a very good player. The Patriots gave him a big contract which at that time was very unusual and not the Patriots way. Most good players when their contracts are up they’d get rid of them instead of pay them. The Patriots way was you get the best years out of a player and when they’ve earned a big contract you let another team pay them and that almost every player is replaceable. 

[jeremy2020]

and here we have the annual, "I don't understand the difference between the words fame and best" post