Rich Cimini and his awful take about Matthew Stafford's hall of fame career

[TheNuuFaaolaExperience]

Stafford tied or broke three Rams QB records in the one year with the team. 

Touchdowns - 41 (tied with Kurt Warner) He threw 41 TD passes in 2011 with the Lions

Passing yards - 4,886

Completions - 404

I don't even know how this is even a conversation.

 

EDIT - Hall of Fame criteria is subjective and left to the whims of the selection committee. A Super Bowl ring doesn't automatically mean that a QB is getting into the Hall of Fame, but it absolutely is a determining factor. Owning every major QB record for a franchise is another determining factor, even if that franchise is the Detroit Lions. Breaking franchise records for a second team is a determining factor. Compiled stats are always going to be a determining factor, whether we like it or not. This aint your father's hall of fame.

 

Edited February 14, 2022 by TheNuuFaaolaExperience

[freestater]

Cimini being a dick. Surprising. 

[nycdan]

Because one great season doesn't change the entire narrative.  He's passed for a LOT of yards, but some of this other metrics are not compelling yet.  But if he wins one more SB, he will be a far better candidate than Eli.  

Another take on this debate.  Matt Ryan has more yards and TDs than Stafford.  Is he a lock?

I think both of them will be interesting debates.

[Hex]

I think the fact that he had winning seasons with the Lions was enough to get him a lock into the HoF

[Joe W. Namath]

3 minutes ago, nycdan said:

Because one great season doesn't change the entire narrative.  He's passed for a LOT of yards, but some of this other metrics are not compelling yet.  But if he wins one more SB, he will be a far better candidate than Eli.  

Another take on this debate.  Matt Ryan has more yards and TDs than Stafford.  Is he a lock?

I think both of them will be interesting debates.

If Matt Ryan won the Super Bowl he appeared in, yes an absolute lock.

Matt Stafford will end up with top 10 all time numbers in all the big catarogries.  Add in a super bowl ring and he is a lock for the HOF.

 

[RutgersJetFan]

Isn’t this par for the course with almost all fans? Guy isn’t good enough to win a ring until he wins one. Then the one isn’t enough. Peyton won 2 and still gets sh*t for it. 

[NIGHT STALKER]

4 minutes ago, nycdan said:

Because one great season doesn't change the entire narrative.  He's passed for a LOT of yards, but some of this other metrics are not compelling yet.  But if he wins one more SB, he will be a far better candidate than Eli.  

Another take on this debate.  Matt Ryan has more yards and TDs than Stafford.  Is he a lock?

I think both of them will be interesting debates.

The SB was his lock to get in.  If Klecko had a SB ring, he would be a lock to get in.  The SB in many instances pushes a lot of bubble guys into the HOF.

[chirorob]

2 minutes ago, Joe W. Namath said:

If Matt Ryan won the Super Bowl he appeared in, yes an absolute lock.

Matt Stafford will end up with top 10 all time numbers in all the big catarogries.  Add in a super bowl ring and he is a lock for the HOF.

Ryan also won an MVP.

Stafford helped his case a LOT this year, but I would not put him in the Hall yet.   He is also relatively young, and could play another 5 years, and throw for another 22,000 yards or so.

[TheNuuFaaolaExperience]

13 minutes ago, nycdan said:

Because one great season doesn't change the entire narrative.  He's passed for a LOT of yards, but some of this other metrics are not compelling yet.  But if he wins one more SB, he will be a far better candidate than Eli.  

Another take on this debate.  Matt Ryan has more yards and TDs than Stafford.  Is he a lock?

I think both of them will be interesting debates.

Change what narrative? He has been a great QB for an awful franchise. His season with the 2021 Rams is what most of his career would have been with a competent GM, head coach, and supporting staff. The conversation wouldn't be about whether or not Stafford is a hall of famer. We would be talking about what record Stafford would break next. He is a prime example of the right guy in the wrong place.

Tom Brady would have been out of the league in three years if he started his career with the Lions. 

 

 

[TheNuuFaaolaExperience]

6 minutes ago, Joe W. Namath said:

If Matt Ryan won the Super Bowl he appeared in, yes an absolute lock.

Matt Stafford will end up with top 10 all time numbers in all the big catarogries.  Add in a super bowl ring and he is a lock for the HOF.

 

Ryan would have been a lock for the hall of fame if his coach wasn't a moron and simply hiked the ball with one second left on the play clock and handed it off to Freeman.

 

[Biggs]

Phillip Rivers with a ring.  Yes.

[TheNuuFaaolaExperience]

6 minutes ago, chirorob said:

Ryan also won an MVP.

Stafford helped his case a LOT this year, but I would not put him in the Hall yet.   He is also relatively young, and could play another 5 years, and throw for another 22,000 yards or so.

I like this take over Cimini's. Stafford is going to continue playing and add to his impressive resume'. 

He will retire top 10 in multiple categories when his career is over, and it's hard not to send a guy like that into the hall. 

[JustInFudge]

Matt Stafford is 100% a HOF'er. 

Fun fact to help his argument; the 2 most prolific pass catching seasons in the history of the NFL, Clavin Johnson in 2012 and Cooper Kupp in 2022 where QB'd by Matt Stafford.

 

[Biggs]

10 minutes ago, TheNuuFaaolaExperience said:

Change what narrative? He has been a great QB for an awful franchise. His season with the 2021 Rams is what most of his career would have been with a competent GM, head coach, and supporting staff. The conversation wouldn't be about whether or not Stafford is a hall of famer. We would be talking about what record Stafford would break next. He is a prime example of the right guy in the wrong place.

Tom Brady would have been out of the league in three years if he started his career with the Lions. 

 

 

Stafford wasn't just on a bad team.  He was in a division with a QB who was better than he was his entire career.  Stafford has always been a very good QB.  He was on a bad team but worse he wasn't as good as a guy he went up with twice a year who dominated the division.  

He's a great compiler and now he has a ring.  That gets a lot of guys in the HOF.  In no way shape or form was Stafford ever the best QB in the league or even top 4 or 5.  

I think he still gets in.  

[Skeet Ulrich]

Stafford a HoF? Talk about being a prisoner of the moment. Never made an all pro team, been a Pro Bowler once. He's not even top 10 QBs of his era. Kirk Cousins has a better argument at being a HoF and I hate Kirk Cousins.

[The Crusher]

18 minutes ago, RutgersJetFan said:

Isn’t this par for the course with almost all fans? Guy isn’t good enough to win a ring until he wins one. Then the one isn’t enough. Peyton won 2 and still gets sh*t for it. 

Yes and guy wins 7* and all a sudden he’s a cheater. Can’t win.

[Biggs]

25 minutes ago, nycdan said:

Because one great season doesn't change the entire narrative.  He's passed for a LOT of yards, but some of this other metrics are not compelling yet.  But if he wins one more SB, he will be a far better candidate than Eli.  

Another take on this debate.  Matt Ryan has more yards and TDs than Stafford.  Is he a lock?

I think both of them will be interesting debates.

Matt Ryan is a lock.  He has had a better career than either Stafford or Phillip Rivers who many think is a lock. 

[UntouchableCrew]

I think he's pretty much a lock to get in given that he's probably going to finish top 5 in cumulative statistical categories. Now that he has the ring I don't see how he doesn't get it.

That said, I think you can certainly question it. Guy compiled passing stats on bad teams. Never sniffed an MVP, never been an All Pro, literally only 1x Pro Bowl which is fairly shocking this day in age where everyone makes a gazillion of them. He was just never an "elite" player at the position -- as someone who is skeptical Eli Manning deserves to be there I don't really think Stafford is worthy.

But I'm sure he'll get in.

[nycdan]

1 hour ago, TheNuuFaaolaExperience said:

Change what narrative? He has been a great QB for an awful franchise. His season with the 2021 Rams is what most of his career would have been with a competent GM, head coach, and supporting staff. The conversation wouldn't be about whether or not Stafford is a hall of famer. We would be talking about what record Stafford would break next. He is a prime example of the right guy in the wrong place.

Tom Brady would have been out of the league in three years if he started his career with the Lions. 

 

 

 

These are all volume metrics impacted by the fact that he played on a crap team for 12 years that was almost always losing in the 2nd half.  I think he's a very good QB, but his non-volume metrics aren't as great.

Career passing % - 25th all time.  Behind guys like Romo and Schaub.  Very good.  Maybe HoF good. 

Career Passer Rating - 21st all time.  Behind guys like Romo and Derek Carr.

One of the arguments I've heard against is he has only 1 Pro Bowl and no All Pro nominations.  Now you could say he had the bad luck to play in the era of Rodgers and Wilson, who pretty much dominated the NFC for those, but it's a data point.

You could argue that the SB win separates him from guys like Rivers and Romo, but then you have to start talking about Joe Flacco, whose career stats aren't that far off from Stafford's.  Slippery slope.

I'm not saying he shouldn't be in, and I would have far less objection to it than some other guys who have made it in recently, but I don't think he's a stone cold lock YET.   Another two healthy seasons with playoff appearances, or maybe even one really good one, and I think it gets a lot stronger.

[UntouchableCrew]

1 minute ago, Biggs said:

Matt Ryan is a lock.  He has had a better career than either Stafford or Phillip Rivers who many think is a lock. 

It doesn't mean as much for legacy purposes but I'd certainly weigh Matt Ryan's 2016 MVP over a Super Bowl for Stafford or Flacco when it comes to a HoF discussion.

[Adoni Beast]

The slimiest part of this isn't necessarily Cimini's opinion. That's debatable...but it's the timing.

Why feel the need to tweet that the day after he just won the Super Bowl?

Miserable rat

[32EBoozer]

20 minutes ago, RutgersJetFan said:

Isn’t this par for the course with almost all fans? Guy isn’t good enough to win a ring until he wins one. Then the one isn’t enough. Peyton won 2 and still gets sh*t for it. 

Definitely the last one. They won despite his play! Von Miller was the key.

[chirorob]

3 minutes ago, Biggs said:

Matt Ryan is a lock.  He has had a better career than either Stafford or Phillip Rivers who many think is a lock. 

I don't put Rivers in at all.

To be a Hall of Famer (in my opinion) you have to have several seasons where people looked at you as being elite.   MVP candidate, a guy who carried his team, something like that.   Rivers was never that guy.  He is a very good QB, who played a long time, but he was never in that upper tier elite class of QB.

[Beerfish]

Winning super bowls should have zero to do with the hall of fame.

[nycdan]

2 minutes ago, Beerfish said:

Winning super bowls should have zero to do with the hall of fame.

[UntouchableCrew]

3 minutes ago, chirorob said:

I don't put Rivers in at all.

To be a Hall of Famer (in my opinion) you have to have several seasons where people looked at you as being elite.   MVP candidate, a guy who carried his team, something like that.   Rivers was never that guy.  He is a very good QB, who played a long time, but he was never in that upper tier elite class of QB.

Sure, but if Rivers was never in that class Stafford certainly wasn't either. Outside of 2016 nobody would really put Matt Ryan there.

The "upper tier eltie" QB group of the past 20 years is basically Tom Brady, Peyton Manning, Aaron Rodgers, Drew Brees, and Patrick Mahomes. You could slot in guys like Ben Roethlisberger, Philip RIvers, or Matt Ryan but they'd all be ahead of Stafford who is probably in the Eli Manning tier.

[Biggs]

26 minutes ago, TheNuuFaaolaExperience said:

Change what narrative? He has been a great QB for an awful franchise. His season with the 2021 Rams is what most of his career would have been with a competent GM, head coach, and supporting staff. The conversation wouldn't be about whether or not Stafford is a hall of famer. We would be talking about what record Stafford would break next. He is a prime example of the right guy in the wrong place.

Tom Brady would have been out of the league in three years if he started his career with the Lions. 

 

 

This year do you think Stafford was better than Rodgers, Brady, Mahomes, Burrow or Herbert?  If not it's tough to make the argument that he's a great QB who was simply on a bad team.

[Biggs]

10 minutes ago, UntouchableCrew said:

It doesn't mean as much for legacy purposes but I'd certainly weigh Matt Ryan's 2016 MVP over a Super Bowl for Stafford or Flacco when it comes to a HoF discussion.

Especially since he wasn't the SB MVP.   

[Biggs]

7 minutes ago, Beerfish said:

Winning super bowls should have zero to do with the hall of fame.

Namath should be the exception.

[JETSALLDAY24X]

42 minutes ago, TheNuuFaaolaExperience said:

Stafford tied or broke three Rams QB records in the one year with the team. 

Touchdowns - 41 (tied with Kurt Warner) He threw 41 TD passes in 2011 with the Lions

Passing yards - 4,886

Completions - 404

I don't even know how this is even a conversation.

 

Has 1 more game per season now than Warner, Played on a far more loaded team. Was #1 overall pick, Warner undrafted there's your discussion 

[JoJoTownsell1]

22 minutes ago, TheNuuFaaolaExperience said:

Change what narrative? He has been a great QB for an awful franchise. His season with the 2021 Rams is what most of his career would have been with a competent GM, head coach, and supporting staff. The conversation wouldn't be about whether or not Stafford is a hall of famer. We would be talking about what record Stafford would break next. He is a prime example of the right guy in the wrong place.

Tom Brady would have been out of the league in three years if he started his career with the Lions. 

 

 

Kirk Cousins will likely end up in the top 12 passing yards and TDs at some point also. These guys are playing a different game than everyone else who played the position before 2010. 

The top 10 passing TD leaders of all time are guys that played 2010 and beyond... plus Dan Marino. And it's only going to get worse with the extra game/increase in passing. 

Not saying Stafford isn't a HOFer, it's close now that he has a SB ring, but there is going to be a long list of guys who have equally impressive production in a few years. 

[RSJ]

Cimini is always negative


Sent from my iPhone using JetNation.com mobile app

[Joe Willie White Shoes]

12 minutes ago, TheNuuFaaolaExperience said:

Change what narrative? He has been a great QB for an awful franchise. His season with the 2021 Rams is what most of his career would have been with a competent GM, head coach, and supporting staff. The conversation wouldn't be about whether or not Stafford is a hall of famer. We would be talking about what record Stafford would break next. He is a prime example of the right guy in the wrong place.

Tom Brady would have been out of the league in three years if he started his career with the Lions. 

 

 

Those stats don't matter.  They are inflated based on the recent emphasis on the passing game and the multiple rules changes that make passing stats ridiculous today when compared with QBs from earlier eras (as early as 10-15 years ago). You have to measure QBs vs their contemporary peers and not vs past QBs.  I'm not saying he's not a HOF QB. I'm saying his passing stats don't make him a HOF QB.  I will say that he has been a better QB - year in and year out  - than Eli Manning.  And Stafford's season show how playing for a good team benefits a QB.  If Stafford played in Detroit his entire career, we wouldn't even be talking about the HOF.  If Eli Manning played for the Lions, he wouldn't be close to being in the HOF discussion.  The HOF should not be determined by SB rings.  

[Hex]

27 minutes ago, JiFapono said:

Matt Stafford is 100% a HOF'er. 

Fun fact to help his argument; the 2 most prolific pass catching seasons in the history of the NFL, Clavin Johnson in 2012 and Cooper Kupp in 2022 where QB'd by Matt Stafford.

 

And to those arguing that Johnson was a very good player, Kupp had a crazy leap season when Stafford came in. He beat his previous career best by nearly 800 yards.

[Biggs]

6 minutes ago, JETSALLDAY24X said:

Has 1 more game per season now than Warner, Played on a far more loaded team. Was #1 overall pick, Warner undrafted there's your discussion 

 

9 minutes ago, JETSALLDAY24X said:

Has 1 more game per season now than Warner, Played on a far more loaded team. Was #1 overall pick, Warner undrafted there's your discussion 

Warner played on some of the most loaded teams ever.  He also arbuably had 2 of the greatest QB seasons in NFL history.  Warner, unlike Stafford was in the argument as the best QB in the league a couple of times.