Popular Post Jetsbb Posted February 15, 2022 Popular Post Share Posted February 15, 2022 Everybody talks about Josh Allen making that jump but what about Stafford's rookie year? 53% 13TD 20INT 61 rating 37.1 QBR. This for all those jumping off the Zach Wilson train. 5 7 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimmy 2 Times Posted February 15, 2022 Share Posted February 15, 2022 10 minutes ago, Jetsbb said: Everybody talks about Josh Allen making that jump but what about Stafford's rookie year? 53% 13TD 20INT 61 rating 37.1 QBR. This for all those jumping off the Zach Wilson train. Meh. He needed a super team built around him to win a playoff game and he still led the league in picks in his thirteenth year. Zach will be a better player and will win a playoff game in 2023 or earlier. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
varjet Posted February 15, 2022 Share Posted February 15, 2022 Stafford and Allen are basically the best, if not only, examples of QBs who were terrible their rookie year but turned it around and got better. There are at least 20 QBs who were that bad who never were decent. I think Zach Wilson is going to be ok. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Barry McCockinner Posted February 15, 2022 Popular Post Share Posted February 15, 2022 Looking forward to the Titans winning a Super Bowl with Zack Wilson in 2035 after we trade him for a first round pick. 3 8 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Origen Posted February 15, 2022 Share Posted February 15, 2022 27 minutes ago, Jetsbb said: Everybody talks about Josh Allen making that jump but what about Stafford's rookie year? 53% 13TD 20INT 61 rating 37.1 QBR. This for all those jumping off the Zach Wilson train. He had a pretty good running back I believe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
extmenace Posted February 15, 2022 Share Posted February 15, 2022 9 minutes ago, varjet said: Stafford and Allen are basically the best, if not only, examples of QBs who were terrible their rookie year but turned it around and got better. There are at least 20 QBs who were that bad who never were decent. I think Zach Wilson is going to be ok. Aikmen, Eli manning, Peyton Manning, John Elway are a few others that come to mind. People seeing Mahomes, Herbert, and Burrow starting off amazing have made people forget how hard it is for a young QB. I wasn't a fan of the Wilson pick but I'm also not going to throw dirt on him either. A not-so-great rookie season on a not-so-great team isn't enough to say wilson will be good or bad. Plenty of other QB's that have played that have had bad rookie seasons that wound up having decent to good to great careers. lets hope wilson is one of them. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smashmouth Posted February 16, 2022 Share Posted February 16, 2022 4 hours ago, Jetsbb said: Everybody talks about Josh Allen making that jump but what about Stafford's rookie year? 53% 13TD 20INT 61 rating 37.1 QBR. This for all those jumping off the Zach Wilson train. Are people jumping off the train or are they just discussing what they see ? Zach had a really bad year even by rookie standards. Just like Stafford had to show he was capable so does Zach and until he does he's going to take some heat in NY. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dunnie Posted February 16, 2022 Share Posted February 16, 2022 Are people jumping off the train or are they just discussing what they see ? Zach had a really bad year even by rookie standards. Just like Stafford had to show he was capable so does Zach and until he does he's going to take some heat in NY.Nah. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt39 Posted February 17, 2022 Share Posted February 17, 2022 Speaking of Stafford how the hell do you just bounce when that poor girl falls of the stage? Yikes. 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
St Louie Jet Fan Posted February 17, 2022 Share Posted February 17, 2022 Stafford is a great example of the NFL being a team sport. Yes, you need a good QB to win. However, you need a good supporting cast for that QB to win. Also, I dont give 1 F about that cheating J.O. tom brady or what he "accomplished by himself". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DetroitRed Posted February 17, 2022 Share Posted February 17, 2022 On 2/15/2022 at 4:46 PM, varjet said: Stafford and Allen are basically the best, if not only, examples of QBs who were terrible their rookie year but turned it around and got better. There are at least 20 QBs who were that bad who never were decent. I think Zach Wilson is going to be ok. This is so wrong Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevinc855 Posted February 17, 2022 Share Posted February 17, 2022 Zach didn’t have a good rookie year Im Not jumping off but if by Halloween next year he still stinks I’m cutting bait I learned my lesson with darnold 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeremy2020 Posted February 17, 2022 Share Posted February 17, 2022 If Sam Darnold was still sucking for the Jets would he have more or less posts than Zach does trying to justify his play? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevinc855 Posted February 17, 2022 Share Posted February 17, 2022 25 minutes ago, jeremy2020 said: If Sam Darnold was still sucking for the Jets would he have more or less posts than Zach does trying to justify his play? The scary part is sam had a better rookie year then Zach… 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beerfish Posted February 17, 2022 Share Posted February 17, 2022 Many good QBs had dubious rookie years, many of the guys that hit the ground running actually did not start in their rookie year. Mahommes, rogers even justin herbert did not start right away and that helps. It is also why i think wilson looked better after his injury last year. (at least as far as turnovers go) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hmhertz Posted February 18, 2022 Share Posted February 18, 2022 On 2/15/2022 at 4:50 PM, Origen said: He had a pretty good running back I believe. You're wrong Sanders was retired for 11 years when Stafford was a rookie but he had two first round receivers, Megatron & Brandon Pettigrew. Zacherle's QBR was worse than Stafford's 28.2 to MS 37.1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeremy2020 Posted February 18, 2022 Share Posted February 18, 2022 1 hour ago, kevinc855 said: The scary part is sam had a better rookie year then Zach… I'm not scared by rookie years persay.. There's so many variables that go into it. Like Darnold, there were some scary things with Zach with the decision making, poor mechanics when things weren't perfect and inability to recognize defenses / make adjustments. Very Darnold like. Cutting down on the ints was great, but at the expense of offensive efficiency and the ints seemed to get replaced with really bad sacks. We'll see how it goes in the off season and if he can improve on those areas. He seems to be much more of a competitor than Darnold ever was so if it's sticking in his craw and how much work he puts in between now and OTAs to improve before camp. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jet2020 Posted February 18, 2022 Share Posted February 18, 2022 On 2/15/2022 at 3:22 PM, Jetsbb said: Everybody talks about Josh Allen making that jump but what about Stafford's rookie year? 53% 13TD 20INT 61 rating 37.1 QBR. This for all those jumping off the Zach Wilson train. Sounds like Sanchez’ rookie season. How did that turn out? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Snell41 Posted February 18, 2022 Popular Post Share Posted February 18, 2022 I just love how people constantly have to dig up random QB’s who sucked as a rookie to compare and justify Zach Wilson sucking. Hey man it’s ok our guys sucks balls, some other guys sucked too. If you’d like I can list the QB’s who continued to suck balls after their rookie season but I don’t think this site allows enough characters in a post. Just ridiculous. Sent from my iPhone using JetNation.com mobile app 3 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Green Ghost Posted February 18, 2022 Share Posted February 18, 2022 41 minutes ago, Snell41 said: I just love how people constantly have to dig up random QB’s who sucked as a rookie to compare and justify Zach Wilson sucking. Hey man it’s ok our guys sucks balls, some other guys sucked too. If you’d like I can list the QB’s who continued to suck balls after their rookie season but I don’t think this site allows enough characters in a post. Just ridiculous. Sent from my iPhone using JetNation.com mobile app I don’t even need any post in this thread except this one. It is perfection. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warfish Posted February 18, 2022 Share Posted February 18, 2022 On 2/15/2022 at 4:22 PM, Jetsbb said: This for all those jumping off the Zach Wilson train. Forgive me, but what does what Stafford did have to do with what Zach will do? If all you're saying is "it's possible", everyone agrees that it's possible. Anything is possible. 3 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peace Frog Posted February 18, 2022 Share Posted February 18, 2022 Lol the usual AZM suspects hid for a month but are now showing their true colors. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nycdan Posted February 18, 2022 Share Posted February 18, 2022 On 2/15/2022 at 4:55 PM, extmenace said: Aikmen, Eli manning, Peyton Manning, John Elway are a few others that come to mind. People seeing Mahomes, Herbert, and Burrow starting off amazing have made people forget how hard it is for a young QB. I wasn't a fan of the Wilson pick but I'm also not going to throw dirt on him either. A not-so-great rookie season on a not-so-great team isn't enough to say wilson will be good or bad. Plenty of other QB's that have played that have had bad rookie seasons that wound up having decent to good to great careers. lets hope wilson is one of them. Mahomes sat for a year behind Alex Smith. Burrow basically had a red shirt year himself thanks to the injury. Yep, Peyton led the league in INTs and threw for a 56.7% completion rate his rookie year. Drew Brees sat his first year, had a barely average second year, and then was terrible in his third year before turning it around and having a top-5 career. The list goes on. Herbert was such an extreme outlier he should have a horn growing out of his forehead. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Dierking Posted February 18, 2022 Share Posted February 18, 2022 8 hours ago, Warfish said: Forgive me, but what does what Stafford did have to do with what Zach will do? If all you're saying is "it's possible", everyone agrees that it's possible. Anything is possible. Unfortunately, it's the game many play here. Thinking that all qb situations are alike and projecting. Fans fools gold. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustInFudge Posted February 18, 2022 Share Posted February 18, 2022 Didnt the Lions go 0-16 the year before they draft Stafford? Probably not the best situation for a rookie QB, I' guess. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kdels62 Posted February 18, 2022 Share Posted February 18, 2022 1 minute ago, JiFapono said: Didnt the Lions got 0-16 the year before they draft Stafford? Probably not the best situation for a rookie QB, I' guess. Is 2-14 that much better? Regardless, pointing at Stafford and claiming it might be a career trajectory for Wilson is a reach. Wilson was bad last season for like 80% of the season. He got over the turnovers at the end of the season so there’s some hope but he’s still ways off from being serviceable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warfish Posted February 18, 2022 Share Posted February 18, 2022 1 hour ago, Scott Dierking said: Unfortunately, it's the game many play here. Thinking that all qb situations are alike and projecting. Fans fools gold. I think far too many posts are effectively empty, intellectually/logically. What Stafford did (or did not do) has no effect or bearing on what Wilson has done or will do. Every single variable is different, including the two QB's themselves. "But it's possible" arguments are, IMO, the absolutely worst form of desperation. Everyone knows it's "possible", it doesn't need said over and over and over via referential arguments. The biggest trouble with these, apart from having no factors in common relating them, is that for every Stafford, there are two dozen Dwayne Haskins/Sam Darnold/Mark Sanchez (picked 4 picks after Stafford)/etc. Citing the exception to the rule, the breaker of the odds, does not in any way mean our guy will also be a breaker of odds. These arguments don't create "hope" or express optimism, they're just dumb and fact-free. A way to say "I want X to be good" without admitting you can't find an actual REASON why X might be good in the future. If I could wave a wand and ban any one argument, it would definitely be the "Well Manning sucked as a rookie, so Wilson will be good going forward" sillyness. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Crusher Posted February 18, 2022 Share Posted February 18, 2022 4 minutes ago, Warfish said: I think far too many posts are effectively empty, intellectually/logically. What Stafford did (or did not do) has no effect or bearing on what Wilson has done or will do. Every single variable is different, including the two QB's themselves. "But it's possible" arguments are, IMO, the absolutely worst form of desperation. Everyone knows it's "possible", it doesn't need said over and over and over via referential arguments. The biggest trouble with these, apart from having no factors in common relating them, is that for every Stafford, there are two dozen Dwayne Haskins/Sam Darnold/Mark Sanchez (picked 4 picks after Stafford)/etc. Citing the exception to the rule, the breaker of the odds, does not in any way mean our guy will also be a breaker of odds. These arguments don't create "hope" or express optimism, they're just dumb and fact-free. A way to say "I want X to be good" without admitting you can't find an actual REASON why X might be good in the future. If I could wave a wand and ban any one argument, it would definitely be the "Well Manning sucked as a rookie, so Wilson will be good going forward" sillyness. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biggs Posted February 18, 2022 Share Posted February 18, 2022 On 2/15/2022 at 4:22 PM, Jetsbb said: Everybody talks about Josh Allen making that jump but what about Stafford's rookie year? 53% 13TD 20INT 61 rating 37.1 QBR. This for all those jumping off the Zach Wilson train. Stafford played with a seperated shoulder on his throwing arm for at least 3 games his rookie year before he was shut down. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warfish Posted February 18, 2022 Share Posted February 18, 2022 Just now, The Crusher said: I am. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustInFudge Posted February 18, 2022 Share Posted February 18, 2022 2 minutes ago, kdels62 said: Is 2-14 that much better? Regardless, pointing at Stafford and claiming it might be a career trajectory for Wilson is a reach. Wilson was bad last season for like 80% of the season. He got over the turnovers at the end of the season so there’s some hope but he’s still ways off from being serviceable. I was just making a statement about Stafford, didnt say anything about Zach Wilson but clearly not a great situation for either QB. I think these exercises are silly and meaningless, but if you really want to use this type of comparison as encouragement, Stafford had Megatron and IMO, was a 10x better prospect coming out of college. So yeah, hopefully Zach can turn it around. Either way, nobody should write a QB off after their rookie season, unless they're just a total mess and it's apparent. Which at one point Zach was trending toward but as you said, he at least showed he could be a back-up, hopefully he can build off that and show he can be a starter. Getting over the turnovers is great but when you're throwing for a 100 yards a game, is it really all that impressive? 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post UntouchableCrew Posted February 18, 2022 Popular Post Share Posted February 18, 2022 I honestly think there's no worse post than the "QB X sucked as a rookie too" post. Just a completely meaningless anecdotal morsel of false hope. 4 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Crusher Posted February 18, 2022 Share Posted February 18, 2022 3 minutes ago, Warfish said: I am. I honestly don’t have much to say on the subject because I find it as futile and silly as you do. Yet, I understand people want reasons to discuss Zach in a hopeful manner so that’s cool. Personally I think the only thing we have so far that Zach might be good to really good one day is how he was able to clean up his interceptions late in the year. Now of course he did that at the expense of taking shots down field but it’s still an improvement he actually made. So we got that going for us… Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warfish Posted February 18, 2022 Share Posted February 18, 2022 Just now, The Crusher said: I honestly don’t have much to say on the subject because I find it as futile and silly as you do. Yet, I understand people want reasons to discuss Zach in a hopeful manner so that’s cool. I get it, but discussing Zach in a hopeful manner really should be about what Zach does well (his great arm), the physical and mental tools he posesses, the spots where he improved over the course of last year, how new weapons might help him develop/be better, etc. "Durrrr, but Stafford and Manning, so Wilson" is the surest sign of a desperate fan, not an optimistic fan. Just now, The Crusher said: Personally I think the only thing we have so far that Zach might be good to really good one day is how he was able to clean up his interceptions late in the year. Now of course he did that at the expense of taking shots down field but it’s still an improvement he actually made. So we got that going for us… Exactly. The massive reduction in turnovers IS a huge positive. That it cost offensive production and was mostly in lopsided losses is a problem, but one step at a time. Clean up the decision making, then focus on producing more in 2022. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biggs Posted February 18, 2022 Share Posted February 18, 2022 10 hours ago, nycdan said: Mahomes sat for a year behind Alex Smith. Burrow basically had a red shirt year himself thanks to the injury. Yep, Peyton led the league in INTs and threw for a 56.7% completion rate his rookie year. Drew Brees sat his first year, had a barely average second year, and then was terrible in his third year before turning it around and having a top-5 career. The list goes on. Herbert was such an extreme outlier he should have a horn growing out of his forehead. Burrow started 10 games as a rookie. He was very good out of the gate. In 3 less starts than Wilson he had more yards, more TD's, less INT's and a much higher QBR along with over 65% completion percentage. He actually had more passing attempts than Wilson as a rookie. Peyton Manning was third in yards in his rookie year and also had 26 TD's which was 5th in the league. He's completion percentage was 19th. The idea that Peyton Manning sucked anywhere near the level of suck that Zach did as a rookie is simply BS. Yea he lead the league in INT's. He also lead the league in Attempts. The Colts entire O was thrown on him and it was obvious he was going to be a stud. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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