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Matthew Stafford's rookie year


Jetsbb
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10 minutes ago, Jetsbb said:

Everybody talks about Josh Allen making that jump but what about Stafford's rookie year? 53% 13TD 20INT 61 rating 37.1 QBR. This for all those jumping off the Zach Wilson train.

Meh.  He needed a super team built around him to win a playoff game and he still led the league in picks in his thirteenth year. 

Zach will be a better player and will win a playoff game in 2023 or earlier. 

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Stafford and Allen are basically the best, if not only, examples of QBs who were terrible their rookie year but turned it around and got better.   There are at least 20 QBs who were that bad who never were decent. 

I think Zach Wilson is going to be ok. 

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27 minutes ago, Jetsbb said:

Everybody talks about Josh Allen making that jump but what about Stafford's rookie year? 53% 13TD 20INT 61 rating 37.1 QBR. This for all those jumping off the Zach Wilson train.

He had a pretty good running back I believe.

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9 minutes ago, varjet said:

Stafford and Allen are basically the best, if not only, examples of QBs who were terrible their rookie year but turned it around and got better.   There are at least 20 QBs who were that bad who never were decent. 

I think Zach Wilson is going to be ok. 

Aikmen, Eli manning, Peyton Manning, John Elway are a few others that come to mind. People seeing Mahomes, Herbert, and Burrow starting off amazing have made people forget how hard it is for a young QB. I wasn't a fan of the Wilson pick but I'm also not going to throw dirt on him either.  A not-so-great rookie season on a not-so-great team isn't enough to say wilson will be good or bad. Plenty of other QB's that have played that have had bad rookie seasons that wound up having decent to good to great careers. lets hope wilson is one of them.

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4 hours ago, Jetsbb said:

Everybody talks about Josh Allen making that jump but what about Stafford's rookie year? 53% 13TD 20INT 61 rating 37.1 QBR. This for all those jumping off the Zach Wilson train.

Are people jumping off the train or are they just discussing what they see ? Zach had a really bad year even by rookie standards. Just like Stafford had to show he was capable so does Zach and until he does he's going to take some heat in NY.

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Are people jumping off the train or are they just discussing what they see ? Zach had a really bad year even by rookie standards. Just like Stafford had to show he was capable so does Zach and until he does he's going to take some heat in NY.
Nah.
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On 2/15/2022 at 4:46 PM, varjet said:

Stafford and Allen are basically the best, if not only, examples of QBs who were terrible their rookie year but turned it around and got better.   There are at least 20 QBs who were that bad who never were decent. 

I think Zach Wilson is going to be ok. 

This is so wrong 

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Many good QBs had dubious rookie years, many of the guys that hit the ground running actually did not start in their rookie year.  Mahommes, rogers even justin herbert did not start right away and that helps.  It is also why i think wilson looked better after his injury last year. (at least as far as turnovers go)

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On 2/15/2022 at 4:50 PM, Origen said:

He had a pretty good running back I believe.

You're wrong Sanders was retired for 11 years when Stafford was a rookie but

he had two first round receivers, Megatron & Brandon Pettigrew.   Zacherle's

QBR was worse than Stafford's 28.2 to MS 37.1

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1 hour ago, kevinc855 said:

The scary part is sam had a better rookie year then Zach…

I'm not scared by rookie years persay.. There's so many variables that go into it. Like Darnold, there were some scary things with Zach with the decision making, poor mechanics when things weren't perfect and inability to recognize defenses / make adjustments. Very Darnold like. Cutting down on the ints was great, but at the expense of offensive efficiency and the ints seemed to get replaced with really bad sacks.

We'll see how it goes in the off season and if he can improve on those areas.  He seems to be much more of a competitor than Darnold ever was so if it's sticking in his craw and how much work he puts in between now and OTAs to improve before camp. 

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On 2/15/2022 at 3:22 PM, Jetsbb said:

Everybody talks about Josh Allen making that jump but what about Stafford's rookie year? 53% 13TD 20INT 61 rating 37.1 QBR. This for all those jumping off the Zach Wilson train.

Sounds like Sanchez’ rookie season. How did that turn out?

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41 minutes ago, Snell41 said:

I just love how people constantly have to dig up random QB’s who sucked as a rookie to compare and justify Zach Wilson sucking. Hey man it’s ok our guys sucks balls, some other guys sucked too. If you’d like I can list the QB’s who continued to suck balls after their rookie season but I don’t think this site allows enough characters in a post. Just ridiculous.


Sent from my iPhone using JetNation.com mobile app

I don’t even need any post in this thread except this one. It is perfection.

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On 2/15/2022 at 4:22 PM, Jetsbb said:

This for all those jumping off the Zach Wilson train.

Forgive me, but what does what Stafford did have to do with what Zach will do?

If all you're saying is "it's possible", everyone agrees that it's possible.  Anything is possible.

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On 2/15/2022 at 4:55 PM, extmenace said:

Aikmen, Eli manning, Peyton Manning, John Elway are a few others that come to mind. People seeing Mahomes, Herbert, and Burrow starting off amazing have made people forget how hard it is for a young QB. I wasn't a fan of the Wilson pick but I'm also not going to throw dirt on him either.  A not-so-great rookie season on a not-so-great team isn't enough to say wilson will be good or bad. Plenty of other QB's that have played that have had bad rookie seasons that wound up having decent to good to great careers. lets hope wilson is one of them.

Mahomes sat for a year behind Alex Smith.

Burrow basically had a red shirt year himself thanks to the injury.

Yep, Peyton led the league in INTs and threw for a 56.7% completion rate his rookie year.

Drew Brees sat his first year, had a barely average second year, and then was terrible in his third year before turning it around and having a top-5 career.

The list goes on.  Herbert was such an extreme outlier he should have a horn growing out of his forehead.

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8 hours ago, Warfish said:

Forgive me, but what does what Stafford did have to do with what Zach will do?

If all you're saying is "it's possible", everyone agrees that it's possible.  Anything is possible.

Unfortunately, it's the game many play here. Thinking that all qb situations are alike and projecting. Fans fools gold.

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1 minute ago, JiFapono said:

Didnt the Lions got 0-16 the year before they draft Stafford?  Probably not the best situation for a rookie QB, I' guess.

Is 2-14 that much better? Regardless, pointing at Stafford and claiming it might be a career trajectory for Wilson is a reach. Wilson was bad last season for like 80% of the season. He got over the turnovers at the end of the season so there’s some hope but he’s still ways off from being serviceable.

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1 hour ago, Scott Dierking said:

Unfortunately, it's the game many play here. Thinking that all qb situations are alike and projecting. Fans fools gold.

I think far too many posts are effectively empty, intellectually/logically.

What Stafford did (or did not do) has no effect or bearing on what Wilson has done or will do.  Every single variable is different, including the two QB's themselves.  "But it's possible" arguments are, IMO, the absolutely worst form of desperation.  Everyone knows it's "possible", it doesn't need said over and over and over via referential arguments.

The biggest trouble with these, apart from having no factors in common relating them, is that for every Stafford, there are two dozen Dwayne Haskins/Sam Darnold/Mark Sanchez (picked 4 picks after Stafford)/etc.  Citing the exception to the rule, the breaker of the odds, does not in any way mean our guy will also be a breaker of odds.

These arguments don't create "hope" or express optimism, they're just dumb and fact-free.  A way to say "I want X to be good" without admitting you can't find an actual REASON why X might be good in the future.

If I could wave a wand and ban any one argument, it would definitely be the "Well Manning sucked as a rookie, so Wilson will be good going forward" sillyness.  

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4 minutes ago, Warfish said:

I think far too many posts are effectively empty, intellectually/logically.

What Stafford did (or did not do) has no effect or bearing on what Wilson has done or will do.  Every single variable is different, including the two QB's themselves.  "But it's possible" arguments are, IMO, the absolutely worst form of desperation.  Everyone knows it's "possible", it doesn't need said over and over and over via referential arguments.

The biggest trouble with these, apart from having no factors in common relating them, is that for every Stafford, there are two dozen Dwayne Haskins/Sam Darnold/Mark Sanchez (picked 4 picks after Stafford)/etc.  Citing the exception to the rule, the breaker of the odds, does not in any way mean our guy will also be a breaker of odds.

These arguments don't create "hope" or express optimism, they're just dumb and fact-free.  A way to say "I want X to be good" without admitting you can't find an actual REASON why X might be good in the future.

If I could wave a wand and ban any one argument, it would definitely be the "Well Manning sucked as a rookie, so Wilson will be good going forward" sillyness.  

 

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On 2/15/2022 at 4:22 PM, Jetsbb said:

Everybody talks about Josh Allen making that jump but what about Stafford's rookie year? 53% 13TD 20INT 61 rating 37.1 QBR. This for all those jumping off the Zach Wilson train.

Stafford played with a seperated shoulder on his throwing arm for at least 3 games his rookie year before he was shut down.  

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2 minutes ago, kdels62 said:

Is 2-14 that much better? Regardless, pointing at Stafford and claiming it might be a career trajectory for Wilson is a reach. Wilson was bad last season for like 80% of the season. He got over the turnovers at the end of the season so there’s some hope but he’s still ways off from being serviceable.

I was just making a statement about Stafford, didnt say anything about Zach Wilson but clearly not a great situation for either QB.  I think these exercises are silly and meaningless, but if you really want to use this type of comparison as encouragement, Stafford had Megatron and IMO, was a 10x better prospect coming out of college.  So yeah, hopefully Zach can turn it around. 

Either way, nobody should write a QB off after their rookie season, unless they're just a total mess and it's apparent.  Which at one point Zach was trending toward but as you said, he at least showed he could be a back-up, hopefully he can build off that and show he can be a starter.  Getting over the turnovers is great but when you're throwing for a 100 yards a game, is it really all that impressive? 

 

 

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3 minutes ago, Warfish said:

I am.

:good:

I honestly don’t have much to say on the subject because I find it as futile and silly as you do. Yet, I understand people want reasons to discuss Zach in a hopeful manner so that’s cool. Personally I think the only thing we have so far that Zach might be good to really good one day is how he was able to clean up his interceptions late in the year. Now of course he did that at the expense of taking shots down field but it’s still an improvement he actually made. So we got that going for us… 

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Just now, The Crusher said:

I honestly don’t have much to say on the subject because I find it as futile and silly as you do. Yet, I understand people want reasons to discuss Zach in a hopeful manner so that’s cool.

I get it, but discussing Zach in a hopeful manner really should be about what Zach does well (his great arm), the physical and mental tools he posesses, the spots where he improved over the course of last year, how new weapons might help him develop/be better, etc.

"Durrrr, but Stafford and Manning, so Wilson" is the surest sign of a desperate fan, not an optimistic fan.

Just now, The Crusher said:

Personally I think the only thing we have so far that Zach might be good to really good one day is how he was able to clean up his interceptions late in the year. Now of course he did that at the expense of taking shots down field but it’s still an improvement he actually made. So we got that going for us… 

Exactly.  The massive reduction in turnovers IS a huge positive.  That it cost offensive production and was mostly in lopsided losses is a problem, but one step at a time.  Clean up the decision making, then focus on producing more in 2022.

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10 hours ago, nycdan said:

Mahomes sat for a year behind Alex Smith.

Burrow basically had a red shirt year himself thanks to the injury.

Yep, Peyton led the league in INTs and threw for a 56.7% completion rate his rookie year.

Drew Brees sat his first year, had a barely average second year, and then was terrible in his third year before turning it around and having a top-5 career.

The list goes on.  Herbert was such an extreme outlier he should have a horn growing out of his forehead.

Burrow started 10 games as a rookie.   He was very good out of the gate.   In 3 less starts than Wilson he had more yards, more TD's, less INT's and a much higher QBR along with over 65% completion percentage.   He actually had more passing attempts than Wilson as a rookie.

Peyton Manning was third in yards in his rookie year and also had 26 TD's which was 5th in the league.  He's completion percentage was 19th.  

The idea that Peyton Manning sucked anywhere near the level of suck that Zach did as a rookie is simply BS.   Yea he lead the league in INT's.  He also lead the league in Attempts.  The Colts entire O was thrown on him and it was obvious he was going to be a stud.

 

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