McShay and Jeremiah both have Jets taking a corner at pick 10

[jeffkitref]

Please no! We need to double down on WR. 

[Larz]

I wouldn’t hate it but the more I look at what’s available, if he stays at 4 and 10 it will be Oline and Dline

[Warfish]

Maybe I am wrong, certainly, but I don't see either pick they forecast as being accurate. 

Don't think we're going O-line at 4, don't think we drafting CB in the 1st or 2nd honestly.

Trouble is that JD is so spotty so far at building this franchises talent-pool, I honestly don't know what he might do.  He doesn't have much of a direction so far in my book.

[slats]

10 hours ago, Rhg1084 said:

Dream scenario is Jets sign a RG in free agency and bring in a big time receiver (Cooper, Ridley).

then in the draft if they can walk away with Thibodeaux and either Stingley or Gardner would completely transform this defense. Especially with Lawson coming back

I wholeheartedly agree with your first sentence, but it’s hard to actually see them spending their two first rounders on defense regardless of what they do before the draft. 
 
Add the right Edge, and the secondary will look significantly better. Can’t count on Lawson to be 100% coming off that achilles. 

9 hours ago, varjet said:

JD has to take players who he thinks are going to be good.

If the player who he thinks is the best is a player the Jets don't need or does not fit, he needs to trade down.  Hopefully someone will agree with that.  

If does not help to draft an EDGE at 4 who busts, but pass on future all pro OL.  That is the Vernon Gholston story.  We were better off with Jarrod Mayo.  

We have seen enough drafts.  In this draft, the OL and CBs will go higher than we think.   If Thib falls it will not be my much.  Denver is not taking a QB with small hands-the weather there is too bad.  Denver will take Malik Willis, if they don't trade for Rodgers. 

I really, really like the idea of trading back in a deal that nets them an extra first round pick next year, but it takes two to tango. Right now, it’s hard to see a lot of scenarios where someone would want to come up to #4. Might see more action at #10. 
 
That said, if he can’t trade out of the pick he needs to take the player who helps the team the most. No one’s looking to draft a bust and, given their pass rush needs, they should be expected to scout the hell out of these Edge prospects and take the one that fits their scheme best. Can’t be comparing a bust Edge to an All Pro OL, that’s not how it works. It’s more what improves the team the most, adding a good RG (because that’s where that #4 pick would play for the foreseeable future) or adding a good Edge? In my ever humble opinion, it’s not even remotely close: it’s the Edge. If the Jets are one of the teams not as high on Thibs as the media and fans, JD will need to have the courage of his convictions to pass on him and take the prospect he prefers. They can’t be afraid of taking a bust, they need to be proactively trying to add dynamic playmakers who fit their vision. 

[Paradis]

2 hours ago, Matt39 said:

Corners don’t matter when you can’t get first downs

True, but you can't "will" someone to become talented enough to spend #10 pick. 

I feel like there's this hamster wheel 50% of you are stuck on. There is NO blue chip WR worth taking at 10. Short of Namath-guaranteeing you, there'll be a slew of guys with higher grades from Joe/Rob than any "first down" getter there. 

First 2 picks is highly likely to be some combo of Edge/OL/DB

[Matt39]

8 minutes ago, Paradis said:

True, but you can't "will" someone to become talented enough to spend #10 pick. 

I feel like there's this hamster wheel 50% of you are stuck on. There is NO blue chip WR worth taking at 10. Short of Namath-guaranteeing you, there'll be a slew of guys with higher grades from Joe/Rob than any "first down" getter there. 

First 2 picks is highly likely to be some combo of Edge/OL/DB

The further away we get from the season, the more the fanbase sells themself on defense. They also seem to forget how brutally bad the offense was. Give me guys who have the ball and score touchdowns. Where is the Iowa State back projected to go? I’d rather him at 10 than a corner. Maybe extreme, but a back at least can move the needle a bit. A corner does nothing. Douglas doesn’t have time to be drafting corners. Points please. 

[Paradis]

Just now, Matt39 said:

The further away we get from the season, the more the fanbase sells themself on defense. They also seem to forget how brutally bad the offense was. Give me guys who have the ball and score touchdowns. Where is the Iowa State back projected to go? I’d rather him at 10 than a corner. Points please. 

 

Again. There's no WR/Hero playmaker on offense worth taking at #10. What's dumber than ignoring offense? Taking second round talent at #10 because. 

[the Claw]

I really hope not. Though the team does need one more good corner, I hope he’s taken later in the draft or through fa. The team needs playmakers. 

[heymangold]

12 minutes ago, Matt39 said:

The further away we get from the season, the more the fanbase sells themself on defense. They also seem to forget how brutally bad the offense was. Give me guys who have the ball and score touchdowns. Where is the Iowa State back projected to go? I’d rather him at 10 than a corner. Maybe extreme, but a back at least can move the needle a bit. A corner does nothing. Douglas doesn’t have time to be drafting corners. Points please. 

You want to talk about bad football takes from @football guy then go advocating taking a good, not great, running back at pick 10?  Sheeeeeesh.  

[Warfish]

21 minutes ago, Paradis said:

 

Again. There's no WR/Hero playmaker on offense worth taking at #10. What's dumber than ignoring offense? Taking second round talent at #10 because. 

My concern is that our Offense will remain pathetic in 2022 without a material influx of talent.

And that our Defense will not make any difference, even if we invest all four top picks into it, in 2022.

Lets be serious, what do we think is going to happen if we invest heavily in Defense?  That we're gonna jump from "historic worst Defense ever" to top 5?  More likely we make a small improvement, from 32nd to 21-25th or so.  Big deal.

Meanwhile, with the usual gap-filler FA's JD seems to love, the Offense with Zach will remain in the mid to late 20's in the ranking, and we'll still be debating the age-old Jets Fan debate, is it the QB, the O-line, the lack of Weapons, or some combination of all three that is keeping us in the cellar in the AFC. 

Just feels like it's time for this franchise to be brave and try winning with something other than Defense.  You can argue "value at pick" all you like, but "winning the Draft value chart" itself is not the goal, winning football games is.  I think our only route to winning is to continue to deeply invest in the Offense, especially while Zach is QB.  Investment in Defense, IMO, will simply not pay enough in dividends in W/L's.

[peebag]

We need help everywhere.

In Joey D we trust.

[Matt39]

20 minutes ago, Paradis said:

 

Again. There's no WR/Hero playmaker on offense worth taking at #10. What's dumber than ignoring offense? Taking second round talent at #10 because. 

I disagree tbh. If I’m Douglas im excluding defensive players from my board until round 3 unless it’s an edge rusher. When it’s week 5 and Vince Amith and Berrios are the starting receivers the corner we drafted isnt going to look great for Douglas job security.

[Matt39]

9 minutes ago, heymangold said:

You want to talk about bad football takes from @football guy then go advocating taking a good, not great, running back at pick 10?  Sheeeeeesh.  

I’d take the back over the corner if that’s what we’re comparing.

[Warfish]

I'd argue a balanced approach is ok (all depending on FA of course):

Round 1:  An Edge and an Offensive Weapon/Playmaker is fine.

Round 2:  A LB/CB and an Offensive Weapons/Playmaker/O-lineman is fine.

A lopsided approach (say, a Safety (which alot of folks seem to want) and a CB, or an Edge and a DT) is what I'd strongly argue against.

At minimum our approach needs to be either balanced or Offensive-leaning, minimum.

I say "depending on FA", but I have zero belief that JD is going to solve any major Offensive concerns in FA.  We're not signing a huge-Dollar WR #1, we're not signing all-pro O-linemen, etc.  Gap-Fillers, that is what JD is willing to pay for so far as a GM.

[Rhg1084]

For everybody saying “what about offense”… I really think Douglas is going to land a big time WR via trade or free agency as well as signing a RG. Then he can focus on defense for this draft (which is the strength of the draft anyway)

[section314]

10 minutes ago, Warfish said:

I'd argue a balanced approach is ok (all depending on FA of course):

Round 1:  An Edge and an Offensive Weapon/Playmaker is fine.

Round 2:  A LB/CB and an Offensive Weapons/Playmaker/O-lineman is fine.

A lopsided approach (say, a Safety (which alot of folks seem to want) and a CB, or an Edge and a DT) is what I'd strongly argue against.

At minimum our approach needs to be either balanced or Offensive-leaning, minimum.

I say "depending on FA", but I have zero belief that JD is going to solve any major Offensive concerns in FA.  We're not signing a huge-Dollar WR #1, we're not signing all-pro O-linemen, etc.  Gap-Fillers, that is what JD is willing to pay for so far as a GM.

Off topic here, but saw a guy who is probably a fav of yours, Ryan Zimmermann, retired. As a lifelong Mets fan, he was always the guy I hated to see up in a big spot. Was a class act, and even though he's a NAT, I enjoyed watching him play. Well done Ryan.

[BurntDice]

2 hours ago, Sperm Edwards said:

Shush. You're inviting 500 more pages of how the Jets don't need a single corner drafted ahead of round 5, nor a veteran worthy of more than the vet minimum salary, because zone.

Even when the receiver is in someone's zone there are no coverage skills needed to warrant CBs who can actually cover better once the target's identified, also because zone.

Zone CBs just stand there or move slightly within their zones, don't move to more tightly cover any target in said zone, because zone. Draft a 3rd LT and keep JFM at edge.

That'll improve the offense so much it won't matter if the D is surrendering 30ppg again. 

Also zone.

 

 

 

 

zone

 

This was great man haha it really put me in the zone cause I was just sitting here watching just like how zone cbs play 

 

 

[Matt39]

51 minutes ago, Warfish said:

My concern is that our Offense will remain pathetic in 2022 without a material influx of talent.

And that our Defense will not make any difference, even if we invest all four top picks into it, in 2022.

Lets be serious, what do we think is going to happen if we invest heavily in Defense?  That we're gonna jump from "historic worst Defense ever" to top 5?  More likely we make a small improvement, from 32nd to 21-25th or so.  Big deal.

Meanwhile, with the usual gap-filler FA's JD seems to love, the Offense with Zach will remain in the mid to late 20's in the ranking, and we'll still be debating the age-old Jets Fan debate, is it the QB, the O-line, the lack of Weapons, or some combination of all three that is keeping us in the cellar in the AFC. 

Just feels like it's time for this franchise to be brave and try winning with something other than Defense.  You can argue "value at pick" all you like, but "winning the Draft value chart" itself is not the goal, winning football games is.  I think our only route to winning is to continue to deeply invest in the Offense, especially while Zach is QB.  Investment in Defense, IMO, will simply not pay enough in dividends in W/L's.

I’m here as well. The Jets offense needs the defibrillator approach via the draft. This is what happens when your first two drafts yield mediocre to poor results. The offense needs to be drastically better for Douglas to stick around. If he wants to be another Maccagnan then yeah take the corner and the DT or whomever.

[THE BARON]

12 hours ago, bla bla bla said:

I could live with Sauce but I want no part of Stingley. I don't really want CB early though.

Sauce all the way.  Don't go near Stingley

[THE BARON]

12 hours ago, Rhg1084 said:

Dream scenario is Jets sign a RG in free agency and bring in a big time receiver (Cooper, Ridley).

then in the draft if they can walk away with Thibodeaux and either Stingley or Gardner would completely transform this defense. Especially with Lawson coming back

Dream scenario

JD puts a crowbar in that tight wallet and signs Alex Cappa

Jets draft Ekwonu with number 4,  As much as I would like that, I don't see it happening.  Any GM with two eyes and half a bran can see Ekwonu is the best player in the draft.  The Jags want the best player and they also badly need protection for Lawrence.  So... Probably, Jets wind up with Evan Neal, who can play inside or out.

Jets draft CB Sauce with number 10.  Sauce is not Revis, but he is the ideal type of player for the type of Defense Saleh is fielding.  Sauce is a "football player".  He can cover, tackle, play off the wr in space and also use contact at the line.  

JD finds a trading partner for Becton.  I know that wont happen, but I'd sure like to see them get something for Becton before everyone in the league realizes he's a "Johnny Mitchell" 

[UntouchableCrew]

We’re not taking a DB that high. It makes sense on the surface but won’t happen.

If he take defense in the top ten it’ll be DL/Edge imo.

[Greensleeves]

12 hours ago, BurntDice said:

All these signs pointing to the team highly valuing cb play yet people keep saying the opposite lol 

Pretty much reaching for examples - none of these have anything to do with this Jets team, only individual parts of the team in different situations. The only reason I can see the Jets going corner early is the depth on OL, Edge and Receiver in this draft. If they feel they can get a solid edge guy in the second round or a solid receiver but can't grab a solid corner in the second or third, that would be the reason to go corner. I don't think they will - especially not an injury prone one. All the high picks should be to help Zach or edge IMO.

[BurntDice]

3 minutes ago, Greensleeves said:

Pretty much reaching for examples - none of these have anything to do with this Jets team, only individual parts of the team in different situations. The only reason I can see the Jets going corner early is the depth on OL, Edge and Receiver in this draft. If they feel they can get a solid edge guy in the second round or a solid receiver but can't grab a solid corner in the second or third, that would be the reason to go corner. I don't think they will - especially not an injury prone one. All the high picks should be to help Zach or edge IMO.

Improving the d helps Zach. People keep ignoring this fact. When the d can’t get off the field and let’s up 30+ points a game that puts an immense amount of pressure on a young qb to score on every single drive. 

[Augustiniak]

2 hours ago, Paradis said:

True, but you can't "will" someone to become talented enough to spend #10 pick. 

I feel like there's this hamster wheel 50% of you are stuck on. There is NO blue chip WR worth taking at 10. Short of Namath-guaranteeing you, there'll be a slew of guys with higher grades from Joe/Rob than any "first down" getter there. 

First 2 picks is highly likely to be some combo of Edge/OL/DB

or edge and someone like Lloyd. The jets really need a MLB like Harris, they need a tone setter and D leader.  Mosley wont’ be here much longer.  Unless there’s a big trade back i don’t think wr will be taken in round 1, with the caveat they will sign someone worthwhile at wr, and also perhaps at TE.  But, if the pass rushers are gone by 4 they may just take ekongwu. In a few years, when becton is gone if ekongwu is kicking butt nobody here will care that he was taken at 4.  We will only complain if the guy taken at 4 sucks.

[kdels62]

I’m Joe Douglas and you guys haven’t realized it yet.

[johnnysd]

13 hours ago, Beerfish said:

The game has changed, there are what a few #1 CBs in this league now and they are still getting beat in the super bowl. 

rams won because they got to burrow

Tampa won the year before because they got to mahommes

Due to league rules CB's have moved down the list of premium players.

If Douglas drafts a CB high this year, his draft last year was an utter flop.

Now if any of these dudes were indeed totally premium players, maybe but they are not.

Alternatively you could say TB and the Rams lost because their OL sucked. It's a combination.  I could see the Jets taking DT in Round 1 like a Perion Winfrey WAY before they would consider a CB. There is a chance they consider Hamilton though. I want WR in round 1 but I am sort of reserved to 1 OL and 1 DL in round 1. Hopefully with a trade down.

[derp]

46 minutes ago, BurntDice said:

Improving the d helps Zach. People keep ignoring this fact. When the d can’t get off the field and let’s up 30+ points a game that puts an immense amount of pressure on a young qb to score on every single drive. 

You can make this argument both ways. Improving the offense improves the defense, too. They spent way too much time on the field this year and got gassed.

Also easier to design the defense to play in passing situations by building the front, though the offense is far from putting pressure on opposing teams to score so often. 

[BurntDice]

7 minutes ago, derp said:

You can make this argument both ways. Improving the offense improves the defense, too. They spent way too much time on the field this year and got gassed.

Also easier to design the defense to play in passing situations by building the front, though the offense is far from putting pressure on opposing teams to score so often. 

They spend so much time on the field because they couldn’t stop anybody on third down. Nearly every drive took 5+ minutes. That really hurts the offense because they get out of rhythm and if they don’t score it’s an L. Look at the eagles game. The offense was on the field what 2 times in the second half? 

[Beerfish]

2 hours ago, Paradis said:

 

Again. There's no WR/Hero playmaker on offense worth taking at #10. What's dumber than ignoring offense? Taking second round talent at #10 because. 

The problem is that the top of this draft stinks and there is barely anyone worth the #4 or the #10 pick, doesn't matter if we are talking Wr or Oline or pass rusher or CB.  This is an awful top end of a draft and of course the jets have two top ten picks.

The very best scenario would be the jets being able to trade down with both picks, won;t happen but that would be best scenario.

[Peace Frog]

Want nothing to do with a DB before round 4.

Too many good players at too many positions of need.

I want either protection for my QB or playmakers to support my QB.

Edge is the only position in round 1 I think of and even then, top of round 2 would work.  

[PepPep]

Its not that I think Jets value CB play. I think they do. Maybe not as much as Pass Rusher but it would be silly to assume that CB somehow doesn't matter. Its that the Jets have 3, maybe 4 promising young CBs they are developing. Hall, Echols, Carter, and to an extent Guidry. Drafting a CB at 10 just doesn't make sense. 

[Peace Frog]

2 hours ago, Matt39 said:

I disagree tbh. If I’m Douglas im excluding defensive players from my board until round 3 unless it’s an edge rusher. When it’s week 5 and Vince Amith and Berrios are the starting receivers the corner we drafted isnt going to look great for Douglas job security.

Exactly.  

Let the defensive guru Saleh scheme around the lack of D talent.  

Can't scheme around lack of playmakers.  

[Matt39]

5 minutes ago, Beerfish said:

The problem is that the top of this draft stinks and there is barely anyone worth the #4 or the #10 pick, doesn't matter if we are talking Wr or Oline or pass rusher or CB.  This is an awful top end of a draft and of course the jets have two top ten picks.

The very best scenario would be the jets being able to trade down with both picks, won;t happen but that would be best scenario.

The 2020 draft whiff is still killing the Jets. It’d be easier to understand defense early in this draft if say Whirfs, Lamb, Jefferson or he’ll anyone with a pulse we’re on the team instead.

[Peace Frog]

2 minutes ago, PepPep said:

Its not that I think Jets value CB play. I think they do. Maybe not as much as Pass Rusher but it would be silly to assume that CB somehow doesn't matter. Its that the Jets have 3, maybe 4 promising young CBs they are developing. Hall, Echols, Carter, and to an extent Guidry. Drafting a CB at 10 just doesn't make sense. 

We loaded up the last 2 years on CBs.

Time to load up on WRs and TEs and Oline help and another RB.

If we're going to go D, get some real LBers and not skinny safeties that we're trying to convert to LB.  

[nycdan]

Looking at the roster from an outside perspective, CB and S are needs.  Our depth chart shows an opportunity to improve there for certain.  Most guys who churn out mock drafts don't have the time or interest to dig into every team the way we do to ours so it's a knee-jerk 'plug the hole' type of pick.

Free Agency will go a long way to filling in some of the blanks and changing the perception of needs, and thus, the draft projections.  If we sign one starting DB, it will probably shift the focus quickly to other positions.