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McShay and Jeremiah both have Jets taking a corner at pick 10


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2 hours ago, Matt39 said:

I disagree tbh. If I’m Douglas im excluding defensive players from my board until round 3 unless it’s an edge rusher. When it’s week 5 and Vince Amith and Berrios are the starting receivers the corner we drafted isnt going to look great for Douglas job security.

Well, first off nobody drafts that way. They don't completely 'exclude' one side of the ball in a draft. I get what you mean. But let's be real. If Hamilton is sitting there at 20 and JD already traded down having added more draft capital and has a shot to fill a major hole on the defense and potentially get a major steal in a dynamic player he won't pass on him because he's a 'safety'.

But what I really wanted to say is that the narrative that if guys get hurt you should still be able to field quality starters is not really fair or accurate. Thats just not how it works. You can't say- well if Davis and Moore get hurt by week 5 and Berrios is our starter JD will have hell to pay. Guys get hurt. And when they do, you can't have the same quality starters as you did when all your guys are healthy. Does JD need to go after 2 WRs, either in FA or the draft but probably a combination of the two? Yes. But this idea that we should be 5 deep with #2 starters is just not realistic. The Jets are not going to have a #2 or even #3 quality WR sitting there on practice squad in case someone gets hurt. 

When guys get hurt, your roster suffers. Depth only goes so far. So if Douglas brings back Berrios and signs a WR in FA thats 4 starters, leaving 1 spot. He doesn't HAVE to draft a WR at 10. I'm not going to call for his head if guys end up getting hurt. 

 

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If we sign a starter caliber cb in free agency, why would we draft one?  We have very promising younger guys but need a vet starter in the mix.  Assuming we do that, I do t see a cb that early. 
 

al the mock stuff depends on free agency.  I predict. Vet cb, vet te, vet Lb and an Io lineman as well  

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4 hours ago, viffer said:

I doubt he is telling anyone anything. But people close to him may understand how he thinks better than all the "experts" on this board...

Meh non of these guys know anything right now...I'll make a bet with the guys that "know how Joe Douglas thinks" that he's not taking a secondary player with his top two picks.

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3 hours ago, Warfish said:

I'd argue a balanced approach is ok (all depending on FA of course):

Round 1:  An Edge and an Offensive Weapon/Playmaker is fine.

Round 2:  A LB/CB and an Offensive Weapons/Playmaker/O-lineman is fine.

A lopsided approach (say, a Safety (which alot of folks seem to want) and a CB, or an Edge and a DT) is what I'd strongly argue against.

At minimum our approach needs to be either balanced or Offensive-leaning, minimum.

I say "depending on FA", but I have zero belief that JD is going to solve any major Offensive concerns in FA.  We're not signing a huge-Dollar WR #1, we're not signing all-pro O-linemen, etc.  Gap-Fillers, that is what JD is willing to pay for so far as a GM.

Well it's your first and last lines that really are factors, though. Whether or not they specifically get a $20MM/yr edge rusher or WR, they have more $ to spend than they'd use to reinvest or merely whittling away at the edges. Or anyway, that they should

It's why I'd be annoyed if they're eating up a cumulative, sizable amount of space on the likes of Rankins, van Roten, etc. Or like last year, as of the end of March they'd re-upped (or didn't part with) Alex Lewis at $6MM + GVR at $3.5MM + Feeney at $4MM. Why dick around with nearly $14MM on that trio & watch a 1st team AP center sign with the Bolts for about $12MM? Sure depth is great and important, but not at the expense of having a good starter ffs. Then in the end, Alex Lewis retired rather than play under his pay cut (with whatever else he had going on personally), and it took an Oct trade for a 4th veteran iOLman LDT to ultimately become the actual starting RG. J!

So what am I concerned with this year Spending $6MM on Rankins, another $3MM+ on GVR, and yes potentially millions too much for Berrios. All that, and possibly front-loading extensions for Fant and/or McGovern, and before you know it there's a narrative about spending too much on this or that individual FA. 

Anyway, all that totally changes the outlook before deciding what are still positions of need come draft time, not to mention an upcoming combine & string of pro days shuffling things up further. Not just for us, but for others who may ultimately have their eyes on picks 4 and/or 10. 

I do agree on not repeating a wholly lopsided approach, though. I wasn't crazy about doing so last year either (e.g. whether the dicision ultimately proves right or wrong, it's unlikely GM Sperm would've surrendered two more day-2 picks to move up for AVT in an OL-rich draft. Then again I probably wouldn't have taken a slot-sized WR at the top of round 2 either, basing that on misplaced faith in Mims building upon his rookie season and already having Crowder & Cole - and Berrios ;) - on the roster, so there's that, too lol). 

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1 hour ago, BurntDice said:

They spend so much time on the field because they couldn’t stop anybody on third down. Nearly every drive took 5+ minutes. That really hurts the offense because they get out of rhythm and if they don’t score it’s an L. Look at the eagles game. The offense was on the field what 2 times in the second half? 

…and some of those five minute drives are because they’re gassed because the offense couldn’t stay on the field. There were absolutely games that the defense couldn’t stop anyone all game but there were also games they fell apart after quick three and outs and/or turnovers.

Going back to your post I quoted, you said a better defense is going to help Zach Wilson. I replied a better offense is also going to help the defense. Again, these things work both ways.

I’d also argue that while I’m sure Wilson is competitive it’s different looking at the scoreboard when you’re a bad team than a good team. Sanchez had the benefit of a great defense and run game, basically got asked to go out and not lose the game, and that wasn’t any good for him mentally either.

Once you start going down that improve the defense to help the offense improve the offense to help the defense rabbit hole you can talk yourself into anything. Somebody wants better corner play to improve the pass defense, somebody else wants a better pass rush. One person wants better DT play to improve the run defense, another wants better linebacker play.

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Based on how the 1st round seems to be shaping up talent-wise that #10 spot is looking like the epicenter for quite a few positions.  Could have the CB1 or CB2 still there, could have the WR1 or WR2 still there, will likely have the 3rd, 4th and/or 5th best Edge rushers still on the board.  Those are premium or "premium-light" positions.

My pure guess is that IF the Jets stay at both 4 and 10 (no trade back) then the pick probably isn't a CB in that 10 spot.  But if the Jets trade back and accumulate additional picks this year (ex. 2nd, 3rd) then maybe a CB works in that 10 spot since other need areas like Edge, TE, etc. are fairly deep into Rounds 2 and 3?

We've only seen two drafts from JD.  He's never taken a defender in Rounds 1 or 2 but Edge and CB are premium positions and they are also needs.  A top notch CB will unlock some coverage options for Saleh on D in terms of mixing things up, switching from zone to man, mixing in some Cover 0, etc.

I think the Jets want to come out of the first two rounds with both an Edge rusher and a CB.  However JD navigates the board and trades around to make that happen I have no idea, but I think he'll find a way to do it after ignoring D early during his first two Drafts and having underwhelming results with the only guys he's taken before the end of Day 2 (Zuniga, Davis).

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1 hour ago, FootballLove said:

(4) Thibodeux AND (10) Trent McDuffe

Gastineau AND Derelle Revis?

I'm in!

There is no gastinueau or revis in this draft.  There  is no chase young or tj watt, there is no patick surtain junior or pitts or chase or micah parsons or rashawn slater or peneai sewel.

There is a lot of starter quality guys and some depth but the star power of this draft is awful

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1 minute ago, Beerfish said:

There is no gastinueau or revis in this draft.  There  is no chase young or tj watt, there is no patick surtain junior or pitts or chase or micah parsons or rashawn slater or peneai sewel.

There is a lot of starter quality guys and some depth but the star power of this draft is awful

I don't think this is true you are confusing pre draft rankings and scouting with what actually happens when players get on the field...Revis wasn't a top 10 pick and TJ Watt went 30...some of these players will be superstars there's just not any obvious choices for the masses to get excited about. 

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3 minutes ago, undertow said:

I don't think this is true you are confusing pre draft rankings and scouting with what actually happens when players get on the field...Revis wasn't a top 10 pick and TJ Watt went 30...some of these players will be superstars there's just not any obvious choices for the masses to get excited about. 

We shall see, there is always those that surprise and those that disappoint. 

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18 minutes ago, Beerfish said:

There is no gastinueau or revis in this draft.  There  is no chase young or tj watt, there is no patick surtain junior or pitts or chase or micah parsons or rashawn slater or peneai sewel.

There is a lot of starter quality guys and some depth but the star power of this draft is awful

Is there a 6'3" CB who never gave up a TD in college and gave up a cumulative 60 catches for 712 yards across 36 games in 3 seasons? Elite size and production and a performance against an high end WR prospect in the CFB playoffs. 

This time last year Slater wasn't a top pick, there's a long way to go on analysis yet. 

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10 hours ago, Patriot Killa said:

No DB’s in round 1 unless you’re trading down some.

this is my take too 

If Revis went 13 the guy they take at 10 has to be better than Revis 

it just seems hard to justify a top 10 pick on any DB - Hamilton too - unless that player is the second coming of Deion Sanders 

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10 minutes ago, bitonti said:

this is my take too 

If Revis went 13 the guy they take at 10 has to be better than Revis 

it just seems hard to justify a top 10 pick on any DB - Hamilton too - unless that player is the second coming of Deion Sanders 

If anyone could guarantee a players performance then they'd be the most sought after evaluator in the world. Also hoping that any player will be as good or better than one of the best CBs of all time is ridiculous. 

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18 minutes ago, kdels62 said:

If anyone could guarantee a players performance then they'd be the most sought after evaluator in the world. Also hoping that any player will be as good or better than one of the best CBs of all time is ridiculous. 

this is more about what the player has to do to justify the pick than whether the player is good or not 

Jamal Adams made a bunch of plays and AllPro and everything and we ran him out on a rail 

if the expectations are this guy is a CB taken 10 then those expectations are going to be extremely high, maybe impossible for that player to get the stats or honors to justify a resigning. 

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4 minutes ago, bitonti said:

this is more about what the player has to do to justify the pick than whether the player is good or not 

Jamal Adams made a bunch of plays and AllPro and everything and we ran him out on a rail 

if the expectations are this guy is a CB taken 10 then those expectations are going to be extremely high, maybe impossible for that player to get the stats or honors to justify a resigning. 

Watching the Super Bowl it’s apparent that a great wr is way more important than a great cb.  Ramsey was getting burned regularly by chase and even on the last offensive play where burrow was nearly sacked, chase had Ramsey beat.  Plus cbs are more likely to get penalties than wrs for the same infraction, ala the non call on the face mask.  I can’t see a scenario where the db does not get flagged for that if he face masks the wr.  

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4 hours ago, BurntDice said:

Improving the d helps Zach. People keep ignoring this fact. When the d can’t get off the field and let’s up 30+ points a game that puts an immense amount of pressure on a young qb to score on every single drive. 

I agree, but let's not ignore the fact that the D was bad because of all of the injuries it sustained. If Lawson played the year, Maye, Joyner, Curry, etc. the D is completely different. Lawson and a bunch of guys that were injured are coming back. Also, having a good D will not make Zach better - it will help the team win, but it won't make his throws any easier if no-one is open, it won't give him more time to throw if we can't block. All of those things hurt the confidence of a QB. The only way the Jets become a good team is if they have a confident franchise QB. Until that happens we will not be a team fighting for the Super Bowl. You could argue that nothing else is even close in importance.

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6 hours ago, the Claw said:

I really hope not. Though the team does need one more good corner, I hope he’s taken later in the draft or through fa. The team needs playmakers. 

I agree. Grab a top flight seasoned corner in FA - we don't need another young corner, we have a bunch of those. Leadership in the back is what we need. Teach the young guys tricks of the trade and tips on how to watch film, etc. Take one late in the draft if necessary. 

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17 minutes ago, Greensleeves said:

I agree, but let's not ignore the fact that the D was bad because of all of the injuries it sustained. If Lawson played the year, Maye, Joyner, Curry, etc. the D is completely different. Lawson and a bunch of guys that were injured are coming back. Also, having a good D will not make Zach better - it will help the team win, but it won't make his throws any easier if no-one is open, it won't give him more time to throw if we can't block. All of those things hurt the confidence of a QB. The only way the Jets become a good team is if they have a confident franchise QB. Until that happens we will not be a team fighting for the Super Bowl. You could argue that nothing else is even close in importance.

Who’s coming back besides Lawson? The guys you mentioned on Joyner, Maye, and Curry likely aren’t. 
 

You can say the same thing about the offense. Moore, Davis, Becton were out but unlike the defense they ARE coming back. 
 

Look at the patriots this year with mac jones. He was able to build some confidence and win games because he didn’t have the team on his back. 

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2 hours ago, derp said:

…and some of those five minute drives are because they’re gassed because the offense couldn’t stay on the field. There were absolutely games that the defense couldn’t stop anyone all game but there were also games they fell apart after quick three and outs and/or turnovers.

Going back to your post I quoted, you said a better defense is going to help Zach Wilson. I replied a better offense is also going to help the defense. Again, these things work both ways.

I’d also argue that while I’m sure Wilson is competitive it’s different looking at the scoreboard when you’re a bad team than a good team. Sanchez had the benefit of a great defense and run game, basically got asked to go out and not lose the game, and that wasn’t any good for him mentally either.

Once you start going down that improve the defense to help the offense improve the offense to help the defense rabbit hole you can talk yourself into anything. Somebody wants better corner play to improve the pass defense, somebody else wants a better pass rush. One person wants better DT play to improve the run defense, another wants better linebacker play.

Look at teams who win the super bowl. Do they have a trash defense and good offense? No they don’t. Look at Stafford  on the lions his whole career. They invested in offense a ton with wrs, ol etc and never did anything . I could be wrong because I don’t watch them, but I don’t believe they ever really had a great D for more than an outlier year or so. Is that what you want? To turn Zach into stafford?

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36 minutes ago, Augustiniak said:

Watching the Super Bowl it’s apparent that a great wr is way more important than a great cb.  Ramsey was getting burned regularly by chase and even on the last offensive play where burrow was nearly sacked, chase had Ramsey beat.  Plus cbs are more likely to get penalties than wrs for the same infraction, ala the non call on the face mask.  I can’t see a scenario where the db does not get flagged for that if he face masks the wr.  

4 catches for 89 yards… including a one handed catch for 46 yards. It took a ridiculous once in a lifetime catch for Chase to have respectable numbers. 

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1 hour ago, Beerfish said:

There is no gastinueau or revis in this draft.  There  is no chase young or tj watt, there is no patick surtain junior or pitts or chase or micah parsons or rashawn slater or peneai sewel.

There is a lot of starter quality guys and some depth but the star power of this draft is awful

I do like Drake London/Garrett Wilson over any other WR not named J'mar Chase from last year. And London is a Vincent Jackson/Plaxico Burress type of player. He can take over a game.

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1 minute ago, peekskill68 said:

I get the zone CB/safeties low value argument.  But the defense had only 7 interceptions last year and played to a -13 TO differential.  We really could use a ballhawk...

Also the 30th ranked pass defense. 

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3 minutes ago, peekskill68 said:

I get the zone CB/safeties low value argument.  But the defense had only 7 interceptions last year and played to a -13 TO differential.  We really could use a ballhawk...

Jets gave up the 2nd most passing yards in the league, they need a lot of help in the secondary 

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27 minutes ago, Rhg1084 said:

Jets gave up the 2nd most passing yards in the league, they need a lot of help in the secondary 

Douglas drafted a bazillion secondary players last year. The only way Douglas saves his job is if the offense doesnt resemble a clogged toilet again. If he thinks he has the time to draft DB's, DT's and G's again then he'll be back in Philly writing college scouting reports on the SWAC.

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36 minutes ago, Claymation said:

I do like Drake London/Garrett Wilson over any other WR not named J'mar Chase from last year. And London is a Vincent Jackson/Plaxico Burress type of player. He can take over a game.

I like Wilson alot, but folks are selling me on London as a guy that could provide a truly vital role for young Zachy, a safe big guy who will catch what's thrown his way and outfight hungry DB's looking for INT's.  Some have said Londn really isn;t that guy, but others say he is, it's an interesting option. 

Wilson I keep hearing get compared to Maclaurin in DC, and I LOVE that guy (best WR no one seems to know exists, stuck on a piss poor QB'd team).

Would love to get them both, lol.

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7 hours ago, Paradis said:

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Again. There's no WR/Hero playmaker on offense worth taking at #10. What's dumber than ignoring offense? Taking second round talent at #10 because. 

what mock drafts are you looking at?

i just looked at 3 today and

PFF: 3 WRs going in the top 15 including Wilson to us at 10. and 5 WRS in total in rd 1

SI: 2 WRs going in the top 15. 6 WRs in total in rd 1

CBS:  2 WRs in the top 15 included Wilson going at 8th. and 6 going in total.

every mock i have seen has 2 or 3 WRs going in the top 15. are they going to be another Chase? probably not. but i still think there are some good ones here. 

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59 minutes ago, kdels62 said:

4 catches for 89 yards… including a one handed catch for 46 yards. It took a ridiculous once in a lifetime catch for Chase to have respectable numbers. 

The defense was focused on stopping him, and again on the play where burrow was nearly sacked by Donald chase had burned Ramsey again.  The game is officiated now such that chase is more valuable than Ramsey.  

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1 hour ago, BurntDice said:

Who’s coming back besides Lawson? The guys you mentioned on Joyner, Maye, and Curry likely aren’t. 
 

You can say the same thing about the offense. Moore, Davis, Becton were out but unlike the defense they ARE coming back. 
 

Look at the patriots this year with mac jones. He was able to build some confidence and win games because he didn’t have the team on his back. 

and dont forget people on here treat Lawson like hes Mark Gastineau. like hes some sort of sack machine that invokes terror in opposing offenses.

Lawson had 5.5 sacks in his last year. and 5 the year before. yeah hes got some potential but we need to be worried about our Edge position. 

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3 minutes ago, doitny said:

and dont forget people on here treat Lawson like hes Mark Gastineau. like hes some sort of sack machine that invokes terror in opposing offenses.

Lawson had 5.5 sacks in his last year. and 5 the year before. yeah hes got some potential but we need to be worried about our Edge position. 

Exactly! Every single position on D needs improvement. 

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3 minutes ago, Augustiniak said:

The defense was focused on stopping him, and again on the play where burrow was nearly sacked by Donald chase had burned Ramsey again.  The game is officiated now such that chase is more valuable than Ramsey.  

Were they so focused on stopping him that Tee Higgins had 4 catches for 100 yards, 75 of which came on a blatant missed call by the refs that gets called 80% of the time? The Rams defense is so good because they have talent in the defensive back field and up front. Prevent the offense from hitting quick throws and let the pass rush work after that. 

Chase is a insane talent and might be a generational WR, yet he was held in check by the team with the elite CB. 

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1 hour ago, BurntDice said:

Look at teams who win the super bowl. Do they have a trash defense and good offense? No they don’t. Look at Stafford  on the lions his whole career. They invested in offense a ton with wrs, ol etc and never did anything . I could be wrong because I don’t watch them, but I don’t believe they ever really had a great D for more than an outlier year or so. Is that what you want? To turn Zach into stafford?

You’re taking a massive leap there to the Jets underinvesting in defense in perpetuity. Or even this offseason.

Are the Jets going to be a Super Bowl contender this upcoming season?

I think their best path to being competitive quickly is adding offensive playmakers and bolstering the pass rush as much as possible. Akin to the Kansas City model.

The benefit to that on the defensive side of the football is that linemen tend to age better than corners who are pretty toast once they lose a step. I think that’s a position that is better to invest in when the team is farther along in the rebuild.

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