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McShay and Jeremiah both have Jets taking a corner at pick 10


Rhg1084
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On 2/16/2022 at 10:17 PM, Rhg1084 said:

These are the guys I pay most attention to with the mocks considering their relationship with JD. It is interesting that they both have us going corner pick 10. I know all the experts on this board say the Jets don’t value corner play to be taken with a high pick however. Should be interesting!

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If they grab him in the 5th like Hall, I'll buy the logic, otherwise I hate it.

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22 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

I wouldn’t be opposed if the plan is to drop Davis after his guaranteed $ is up after this season, but that’d be a reason to draft another WR, not necessarily a round 1 WR, unless he’s an omg WR prospect and so far no one thinks this draft has any (or none that are obvious on draft day, requiring a top 10 pick to snare him).

But other than that? Round 1 - #10 overall in the draft, at that - is for pure starters, not for pure depth. Particularly on a bleh roster that still needs several of the former. 

I would prefer that we trade for a proven receiver (Ridley is my hope) so that Zach will have immediate help. Rookies take time to assimilate into the NFL even if they are super talented. If we trade for Ridley I would want a top tier tight end in the draft and maybe a 3rd round receiver. The problem with going WR with #10 is that you aren't helping Zach all that much next year if you don't also grab a potential #1 in a trade. If we do draft a receiver early, 2023 is probably when he will shine.

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52 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

Outside of first trading Becton for a high pick, even if it’s not as high as his orig one, I still can’t think of a circumstance where I’d get behind taking another OL prospect at #4. If any OL prospect is so worth it, surely a team with an actual tackle need will want to move up to get him under a cheaper contract for 4 years. The Jets need a #2 guard and a backup tackle; #4 overall is way too steep for either a RG or depth role.

Admittedly, DB wouldn’t be my favorite pick at #4 but a $5-10MM FA guard and an omg elite DB prospect at #4 would improve the team more than a $5-10MM FA DB and a very good but not omg elite OT playing at RG (or at T and moving Becton or Fant to RG).

Outside of RG the Jets’ issues in their OL were injuries and adaptation to a new scheme, not a lack of talent at tackle. 

I don’t hate a round 1 LB nearly as much as some do (though at 4…he’d better be no less than an AP1). Mosley isn’t being retained at a non-guaranteed $16MM a year later, and (while I love his attitude and the leadership he brings) many/most of us were justifiably underwhelmed by his first non-missed season here. QW2 is meh. He’s plenty athletic but his instincts seem meh. But also admittedly all I’d have to go on are keyboard warriors’ rankings, since I’m not agonizing over film myself. But this D sucks ass. 

I’m not sure the OMG elite DB (i) is there — cannot draft a S at 4–or (ii) is essential in today’s NFL. 

Look, if we can shore up a bunch of spots in FA everything changes but if my choice at 4 is the top G/T prospect or the top S, I’m taking Ekwonu. 

The D sucks ass and my ideal scenario is a trade back to take Nkobe Dean- HE would transform this defense. 
 

But the O also sucks ass and anything to protect Zach or give him weapons to succeed I’m choosing every time. 

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2 hours ago, Warfish said:

We'll just have to agree to disagree on this point.  TE is the trendy thing in the NFL, but few true elite TE's (who CAN fill such a role) actually exist.  

"Quality TE play" as most of you envision it is a dragon you'll be chasing for a looooong time, because we're not getting it any time soon.  

Moore looks to be very speedy where it counts, as (potentially) is Berrios.  

Now, personally I favor Wilson at #10, who is a similar speedy elusive guy like DC's MacLaurin, or Moore himself.

But "big posession WR" is absolutely a vital need for a QB of Zach Wilson's....current limitations.  

Sounds like you want the Jets to try and get back Robby Anderson tbqh (referencing the other thread on him).

We'll just agree to disagree on that as well, lol.

A security blanket role doesn’t require an elite tight end.

Moore is one player. Berrios won’t play in three wide and isn’t a downfield threat.

I have no interest in the Jets reacquiring Robby Anderson.

I probably took your original post too literally and what you said doesn’t reflect what you actually want, but you’re just going off on tangents.

Sounds more like you want a target monster, primary receiver type. In the current NFL, none of the guys who fill that role are London height…except the tight ends.

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18 hours ago, derp said:

A security blanket role doesn’t require an elite tight end.

Moore is one player. Berrios won’t play in three wide and isn’t a downfield threat.

I have no interest in the Jets reacquiring Robby Anderson.

I probably took your original post too literally and what you said doesn’t reflect what you actually want, but you’re just going off on tangents.

Sounds more like you want a target monster, primary receiver type. In the current NFL, none of the guys who fill that role are London height…except the tight ends.

Can you have any trust in Moore staying healthy?

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25 minutes ago, Matt39 said:

Can you have any trust in Moore staying healthy?

I like Moore a lot and I’m moderately optimistic, but I don’t think there’s any way we can know how he’s going to turn out or if he’ll be able to stay healthy. Big difference between flashing at the pro level and producing consistently and being able to stay healthy to do that. At least he didn’t suck last year though.

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On 2/16/2022 at 10:26 PM, BurntDice said:

Sign me up for a cb. The fact that the hawks paid Sherman top tier money shatters all the “experts” opinion that the team doesn’t value cbs. The ravens also took 2 1st cbs within 5 years while joe was there and that was after just drafting 2 within 5 years prior to him joining. 

I'm late to this but the Ravens and 49ers run completely different defenses and value CB's in extremely different ways. Joe will be drafting players to fit the current defense, not the Ravens defense. 

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The Jets had way more of a CB need going into the last draft than they do now and yet they still didn't draft a CB till the 4th round. Even with all of that knowledge some of you still think it's possible they'll use a top 10 pick on a CB?

Hall looked good and improved, Carter played really good in the slot and 2 other rookies played quite a bit and showed some flashes. I would suspect the front office and coaching staff are expecting a jump from all of them going into their 2nd season under this defensive regime. 

I'm not sure they'll even draft 1 CB let alone use a premium pick on one. 

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On 2/19/2022 at 10:12 AM, Rangers9 said:

Well in recent years the Jets have drafted two cornerbacks in the first round, Revis and Milliner. One guy made it big and should be HOF. The other guy didn’t make it and is considered a bust. The question is why didn’t Milliner at least make it enough to have a role on an NFL team. Here is an article from AL.com they basically recall all of his many injuries and quote Marty Lyons who thinks the reason he didn’t make it. https://www.al.com/alabamafootball/2017/05/why_was_all-saban_team_pick_de.html

Milliner was always injured.  It wasn’t rocket science 

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3 hours ago, choon328 said:

I'm late to this but the Ravens and 49ers run completely different defenses and value CB's in extremely different ways. Joe will be drafting players to fit the current defense, not the Ravens defense. 

It’s about what what everyone values. The hawks and 9ers defense didn’t take the next step until they had a great cb in place. The year the 9ers went to the sb Sherman was a top 3 cb in the league. People act like the hawks/9ers don’t value cbs, which doesn’t remotely seem to be accurate. Another poster mentioned how saleh said drafting Jalen Ramsey really helped the d take the next step when he was in Jax. Across all the teams he’s coached he’s had a top cb when he was successful. 
 

Regarding Joe do you honestly not believe he values many of the same things Ozzie did when he was in Baltimore all those years? Saleh and jd bounce ideas off of each other. It’s not a 1 way street. 

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1 hour ago, BurntDice said:

It’s about what what everyone values. The hawks and 9ers defense didn’t take the next step until they had a great cb in place. The year the 9ers went to the sb Sherman was a top 3 cb in the league. People act like the hawks/9ers don’t value cbs, which doesn’t remotely seem to be accurate. Another poster mentioned how saleh said drafting Jalen Ramsey really helped the d take the next step when he was in Jax. Across all the teams he’s coached he’s had a top cb when he was successful. 
 

Regarding Joe do you honestly not believe he values many of the same things Ozzie did when he was in Baltimore all those years? Saleh and jd bounce ideas off of each other. It’s not a 1 way street. 

The 49ers and Seahawks do not value CB's early in the draft.  Go look at the last 10 years of drafts and you'll see what I'm talking about. The reason being is that they are primarily a zone defense and zone CB's in the draft are undervalued and slide. The NFL is primarily man to man league and so those CB's get drafted early.   

Can I see them going out and signing a top zone CB in FA, yes. But I can't see them investing an early Round pick on a man to man CB just to watch him sit in zone coverage 65% of the time when they can get a CB in round 4 with just as much value to a zone team as that 1st round CB would have to a man to man team. 

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8 hours ago, choon328 said:

The 49ers and Seahawks do not value CB's early in the draft.  Go look at the last 10 years of drafts and you'll see what I'm talking about. The reason being is that they are primarily a zone defense and zone CB's in the draft are undervalued and slide. The NFL is primarily man to man league and so those CB's get drafted early.   

Can I see them going out and signing a top zone CB in FA, yes. But I can't see them investing an early Round pick on a man to man CB just to watch him sit in zone coverage 65% of the time when they can get a CB in round 4 with just as much value to a zone team as that 1st round CB would have to a man to man team. 

You are going over all the usual talking points. Why would they pay Sherman top $/have one of the best cbs in the league then draft a cb in round 1?

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On 2/19/2022 at 4:37 AM, Sperm Edwards said:

To be fair, it’s unlikely they’ll head into the draft with just that.

Right now people are counting the upcoming FAs as roster losses, but with no roster gains, heading into the draft. Not trying to single you out because frankly it seems at least 75% of the people here doing that because of some mantra that no one will sign here even with what’s so far looking like a loaded WR FA class (granted it’s still weeks away).

What if they add Allen Robinson (or a WR you like better; I’m just throwing a name out there); particularly if they also re-up Berrios at ~$6MM?

  • Robinson
  • Moore
  • Davis
  • Berrios

Do we still need a top 10 round 1 WR? 

Yes, depth is not a bad thing. 

Plus after the top 3, you have a bunch of Davis type WRs in Free Agency.

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On 2/16/2022 at 10:35 PM, BigRy56 said:

I don’t have an issue with it as long as the WR  / EDGE positions have been addressed in either a trade or FA.

The strength of this draft seems to be OL, EDGE, and TE, so I would prefer to go into the draft targeting those positions

What does it mean if the strength of the draft is those three positions?

That we can get better talent later, so we should take rare talent at premium positions earlier? I'm hearing that given the quality of TEs in the draft, we can get a good one in rounds 2-3-4. Does that mean we should keep our 2nd for a position that is not a strength of the draft if a premium skill player is available there, and worry about strengths later?

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54 minutes ago, cincy jets fan12 said:

Did you watch the games last year?

 

I want linderbaum at 10 but to think we aren’t desperate at CB is delusional homerism

Did YOU watch games last year?

CB was probably one of our stronger units last year, we’ve invested heavy draft capital last 2 years and if we had a pass rush our CBs might be stellar. 

We sucked but not because of Hall, Carter II, Pinnock, Echols, Guidry, Riley.  
 

We need Edge and REAL LBers on D. And Ss. Not CBs, not with high draft capital. 

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4 hours ago, Claymation said:

Yes, depth is not a bad thing. 

Plus after the top 3, you have a bunch of Davis type WRs in Free Agency.

The number of WRs who are - at least as of today - about to reach FA is unusual.

In past years when the Jets were looking at adding a veteran, starting WR the best of the bunch were names like Eric Decker, Robby Anderson. Or last year Golladay coming off a major injury made the best or next-best either JJSS coming off two much weaker seasons, were the only two WRs under 30 with even one 1000-yard season. Corey Davis was close enough (984 in his 14 non-covid games), but thus far he's not been all that, and on top of all the missed games he had more drops than TDs. 

This year there's one coming off such an injury in Godwin, but there are several prior 1000-yard WRs 30/under overall:

  1. Adams 
  2. Godwin
  3. Robinson 
  4. Mike Williams
  5. Gallup
  6. Kirk, just under w/993 yards, but Ari had a crowded receiving corps
  7. Chark, had a 1000-yard season in 2019 with the Jockstrap King
  8. JJSS, 4 seasons removed from his lone special year
  9. OBJ, baggage notwithstanding, he's still under 30 until Nov
  10. and technically Watkins, but he's looked done for years already

I'm sure the most desirable ones won't all be available once FA starts, but it's an unusually large & strong pool. That list also doesn't include:

  • others who've had seasons in the 800-900 yard range (e.g. Crowder);
  • or have been well on pace for >1000 on a per-game basis (e.g. Fuller)
  • plus still others who may be available via trade (e.g. Metcalf, and I guess Robby A)

So this looks like it'll be as many serious, younger veteran WRs available as we're likely to see in any offseason. 

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8 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

The number of WRs who are - at least as of today - about to reach FA is unusual.

In past years when the Jets were looking at adding a veteran, starting WR the best of the bunch were names like Eric Decker, Robby Anderson. Or last year Golladay coming off a major injury made the best or next-best either JJSS coming off two much weaker seasons, were the only two WRs under 30 with even one 1000-yard season. Corey Davis was close enough (984 in his 14 non-covid games), but thus far he's not been all that, and on top of all the missed games he had more drops than TDs. 

This year there's one coming off such an injury in Godwin, but there are several prior 1000-yard WRs 30/under overall:

  1. Adams 
  2. Godwin
  3. Robinson 
  4. Mike Williams
  5. Gallup
  6. Kirk, just under w/993 yards, but Ari had a crowded receiving corps
  7. Chark, had a 1000-yard season in 2019 with the Jockstrap King
  8. JJSS, 4 seasons removed from his lone special year
  9. OBJ, baggage notwithstanding, he's still under 30 until Nov
  10. and technically Watkins, but he's looked done for years already

I'm sure the most desirable ones won't all be available once FA starts, but it's an unusually large & strong pool. That list also doesn't include:

  • others who've had seasons in the 800-900 yard range (e.g. Crowder);
  • or have been well on pace for >1000 on a per-game basis (e.g. Fuller)
  • plus still others who may be available via trade (e.g. Metcalf, and I guess Robby A)

So this looks like it'll be as many serious, younger veteran WRs available as we're likely to see in any offseason. 

If you want to include Williams, fine. I don't think Robinson or Adams leave.

Is Kirk a #1 WR? is JuJu? Are they nice players? sure. Are they transforming this roster? I seriously doubt that.

From what I have seen, both London and Wilson can be every bit as good as the top FA. 

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9 minutes ago, Claymation said:

If you want to include Williams, fine. I don't think Robinson or Adams leave.

Is Kirk a #1 WR? is JuJu? Are they nice players? sure. Are they transforming this roster? I seriously doubt that.

From what I have seen, both London and Wilson can be every bit as good as the top FA. 

Meh, I've always been less concerned with labeling any of these guys like "#1 WR" or "just a #2 WR" or the like. Occasionally I'll use that parlance because it's the only language some like to use, but my shoulders shrug at it most of the time.

If they have 3 WRs who are good & can get open, plus an actual starting TE, that's plenty. I don't care if none of them are 6'6" with a 15 foot wingspan and run the 40 in under 3 seconds. 

Get open without requiring 4-5 seconds to do so, and don't drop the ball when it's thrown their way. As much as it'd be great to add Devante Adams, the reality  is if Wilson's got 3-4 of those types he shouldn't need any excuses, even if none of them are dubbed "#1 WR" types.

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28 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

Meh, I've always been less concerned with labeling any of these guys like "#1 WR" or "just a #2 WR" or the like. Occasionally I'll use that parlance because it's the only language some like to use, but my shoulders shrug at it most of the time.

If they have 3 WRs who are good & can get open, plus an actual starting TE, that's plenty. I don't care if none of them are 6'6" with a 15 foot wingspan and run the 40 in under 3 seconds. 

Get open without requiring 4-5 seconds to do so, and don't drop the ball when it's thrown their way. As much as it'd be great to add Devante Adams, the reality  is if Wilson's got 3-4 of those types he shouldn't need any excuses, even if none of them are dubbed "#1 WR" types.

The point I was getting at, was they are no different than what is already here, outside of the top 3-4 wide outs. I am not adverse in getting a Wide Out, hell, I even encourage it. But getting a WR in Free Agency should not stop the Jets from getting a WR in the Draft, especially as one as good as London or Wilson.

I would rather see they Jets invest in players in free agency where the draft is weak in. ie. Safety & CB

 

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38 minutes ago, Beerfish said:

Here is my out on a limb prediction.  The Jets are going to end up with three 1st round picks when all is said and done.

They will trade down with one of their first two picks and then trade back up into the end of the first round.

Your lips to Gods ears. Would be a home run. 

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On 2/20/2022 at 6:13 PM, choon328 said:

The Jets had way more of a CB need going into the last draft than they do now and yet they still didn't draft a CB till the 4th round. Even with all of that knowledge some of you still think it's possible they'll use a top 10 pick on a CB?

Hall looked good and improved, Carter played really good in the slot and 2 other rookies played quite a bit and showed some flashes. I would suspect the front office and coaching staff are expecting a jump from all of them going into their 2nd season under this defensive regime. 

I'm not sure they'll even draft 1 CB let alone use a premium pick on one. 

this is the correct answer

the Saleh 4-3 requires zone cb these guys aren't hard to find. the top 10/rd1 CB are all man to man shutdown types (i.e. Revis, Ramsey) and those are VERY hard to find. Defenses that blitz a ton need these guys to cover "on an island". This defense doesn't blitz much and doesn't require that type of CB. Mid round pick or cheap FA signings is what's going to happen  at CB

what this Saleh defense needs (and can't find) is upfront pass rush (without a blitz) 

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Dan Brugler has Walker as his #6 rated prospect in his updated list he released last week.

 

6. Travon Walker, edge, Georgia (6-5, 275)

I know I’m higher on Walker than most, but I’m okay with that — I’m betting on his rare traits. He has impressive movement skills for a 275-pounder, including an explosive first step to shoot through gaps, cross the face of blockers or chase down plays. He wasn’t asked to be a consistent outside rusher in the Bulldogs’ scheme, but that helped him develop into a strong run defender, disengaging and leveraging blocks. Walker is still developing his sequencing plan as a pass rusher, but he has freaky athletic traits for his size and offers the natural power and length to consistently win his matchups. He projects as a scheme-diverse end with the ceiling to be one of the best NFL defenders from this draft class.

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On 2/21/2022 at 6:42 AM, BurntDice said:

You are going over all the usual talking points. Why would they pay Sherman top $/have one of the best cbs in the league then draft a cb in round 1?

You're leaving out the fact that they drafted Sherman in the 5th round. They have no problem investing financially in a CB, but they prioritize their premium positions in the draft, and CB isn't one of them. 

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5 hours ago, Marshmello said:

Dan Brugler has Walker as his #6 rated prospect in his updated list he released last week.

 

6. Travon Walker, edge, Georgia (6-5, 275)

I know I’m higher on Walker than most, but I’m okay with that — I’m betting on his rare traits. He has impressive movement skills for a 275-pounder, including an explosive first step to shoot through gaps, cross the face of blockers or chase down plays. He wasn’t asked to be a consistent outside rusher in the Bulldogs’ scheme, but that helped him develop into a strong run defender, disengaging and leveraging blocks. Walker is still developing his sequencing plan as a pass rusher, but he has freaky athletic traits for his size and offers the natural power and length to consistently win his matchups. He projects as a scheme-diverse end with the ceiling to be one of the best NFL defenders from this draft class.

If the pass rusher is good enough to go 6th, he's going to be in play for the Jets at 4. Higher need and more of an impact position. 

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