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Jermaine Johnson II at #4?


GangGreen Machine
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Starting this thread under the pretext that Fant and a healthy Becton will be Left and Right Tackles next year. With that as this hypothetical, I'm having some reservations with drafting a Guard/Tackle at #4. Given if Kayvon and Hutch are gone... The more I watch Jermaine Johnson II the more I like him. Plays a premier position at edge. The Jets desperately need QB pressure, especially if we are thinking we can "coach up" the secondary with vets and late round picks. Anyone have any more insight on this guy? 

He is rocketing up draft boards. Seems we already have a guy who makes his money off of QB hits and hurries (Lawson) so Karlaftis is out for me this high.  

 

 

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14 minutes ago, GangGreen Machine said:

 

At 4? 

Karlaftis/ Ojabo/ Gardner/ Ekonwu (maybe)

Straight up Gardner is the best player in this draft. Karlaftis and Ojabo have higher pressure rates and are 2 years younger than JJ. Even with 2 years more of life JJ doesn’t have the technique that Karlaftis has and he’s not as athletic as Ojabo. 

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Just now, kdels62 said:

At 4? 

Karlaftis/ Ojabo/ Gardner/ Ekonwu (maybe)

Straight up Gardner is the best player in this draft. Karlaftis and Ojabo have higher pressure rates and are 2 years younger than JJ. Even with 2 years more of life JJ doesn’t have the technique that Karlaftis has and he’s not as athletic as Ojabo. 

True JJ has the super senior tag but he produced at a high level. My worry about Karlaftis is he doesn’t have the finishing technique and might be a replica of Lawson which could be easy to game plan for. Ojabo, i haven’t looked at enough… too early in the off-season to see everyone so I am excited to find out what he’s made of. Double digit sacks opposite the projected #1 can’t be ignored. I heard he is super raw. I am a fan of Gardner but don’t see him as a fit in this defense. 

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20 minutes ago, kdels62 said:

At 4? 

Karlaftis/ Ojabo/ Gardner/ Ekonwu (maybe)

Straight up Gardner is the best player in this draft. Karlaftis and Ojabo have higher pressure rates and are 2 years younger than JJ. Even with 2 years more of life JJ doesn’t have the technique that Karlaftis has and he’s not as athletic as Ojabo. 

Gardner and Karlaftis in Round 1, package one of the 2nd’s for Cooper/Jeudy/Ridley, take Zion with the other 2nd, sign Njoku in FA and draft Ruckert or Ferguson at the top of the 3rd.

Profit 

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I mean kdels more or less nailed it. Taking a 23 year old breakout at 4 is not what I’d want to do. He had 2.5 sacks when he was the same time out of high school as Ojabo and Karlaftis.

He’s not someone you don’t take at all obviously but I’m leery of an older late breakout at 4.

I still think Ojabo, who has talent but needs to develop as a run defender, is a perfect option to develop behind Lawson and get after the quarterback on passing downs.

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I noticed in the Senior bowl he gets perfectly locked down on some reps.  When he speed moves don’t work he might not be a factor.  
 

The quick moves he broke through on were very exciting.   4 seems too high after looking at it, since his floor is low.  His ceiling is also very high.  

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I saw on some some game film he seems to set the edge at an NFL level. That’s a plus as well in my book with the rushing problems we had. Drafting fourth just sucks on ice this year. I really don’t feel a guard, corner back or safety is the answer here at 4. Maybe ojabo is the guy but we need some type of rusher in the first… weather that’s trading back up in the second half of round 1 or at 4/10a The top 1-2 tier edge guys will be gone in round two. 

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He's not in play at 4, but at 10, possibly, though his actual value is probably in the 20s. A knock on him is the body type, the high hips/long legs, but his motor is ridiculous. 

Travon Walker should also be discussed. 

I'm honestly not averse to double dipping at edge at both 4 and 10 if Thibs is there at 4. If we do draft any other position group at 4 I think edge at 10 is a must. 

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18 minutes ago, PLO said:

He's not in play at 4, but at 10, possibly, though his actual value is probably in the 20s. A knock on him is the body type, the high hips/long legs, but his motor is ridiculous. 

Travon Walker should also be discussed. 

I'm honestly not averse to double dipping at edge at both 4 and 10 if Thibs is there at 4. If we do draft any other position group at 4 I think edge at 10 is a must. 

Seems he lost his job at Georgia to Walker and Co. so maybe there is something there. 

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13 hours ago, kdels62 said:

At 4? 

Karlaftis/ Ojabo/ Gardner/ Ekonwu (maybe)

Straight up Gardner is the best player in this draft. Karlaftis and Ojabo have higher pressure rates and are 2 years younger than JJ. Even with 2 years more of life JJ doesn’t have the technique that Karlaftis has and he’s not as athletic as Ojabo. 

So true.  Draft age is such an over-looked metric when evaluating these players.   Draft age is going to become even more critical in the future IMO.  We are going to see more and more kids skip their Senior year in high school due to NIL opportunities.   Since the clock to draft eligibility starts when a player leaves HS, we are going to be seeing more 19 and 20 year old draft eligible prospects.  We are seeing this with Wisconsin RB Braelon Allen.   He dominated this past season as a 17 year old kid who skipped his senior year.   He’ll be 19 when drafted.  

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On 2/18/2022 at 4:39 PM, derp said:

I mean kdels more or less nailed it. Taking a 23 year old breakout at 4 is not what I’d want to do. He had 2.5 sacks when he was the same time out of high school as Ojabo and Karlaftis.

He’s not someone you don’t take at all obviously but I’m leery of an older late breakout at 4.

I still think Ojabo, who has talent but needs to develop as a run defender, is a perfect option to develop behind Lawson and get after the quarterback on passing downs.

TJ Watt was 23 in his rookie year.  

Sometimes you just draft a talented player who loves football and continue to develop their skill set. 

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29 minutes ago, Greenseed4 said:

 

TJ Watt was 23 in his rookie year.  

Sometimes you just draft a talented player who loves football and continue to develop their skill set. 

TJ Watt got drafted at 30. And is one player. In general, older breakouts are riskier. Not a lot of guys who break out their redshirt senior year go in the top five.

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9 minutes ago, derp said:

TJ Watt got drafted at 30. And is one player. In general, older breakouts are riskier. Not a lot of guys who break out their redshirt senior year go in the top five.

Only one player can hold the single season sack record, and it happens to be an older draftee. 

Another 23 year old rookie is Aaron Donald. 
 

(I’m guessing teams who had top-5 picks in those drafts might want a re-do)

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20 minutes ago, Greenseed4 said:

Only one player can hold the single season sack record, and it happens to be an older draftee. 

Another 23 year old rookie is Aaron Donald. 
 

(I’m guessing teams who had top-5 picks in those drafts might want a re-do)

Watt’s been awesome, is from a late developing football family, had an injury his second year in school, and broke out his fourth year not his fifth - probably his first fully healthy year.

Plenty of other older breakouts haven’t done as well.

There is an important distinction between older breakout and older draftee. Donald broke out as a sophomore.

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Not sure about Johnson that high, but the fact that his name is even coming up so early shows just how many defenders and, in particular, edge rushers are in the mix after Hutchinson and Thibodeaux go off the board.  It could be a free for all on grabbing defenders.

Every draft is different.  But this one is clearly full of defenders early, especially in the top half of Round 1.  I’d suggest that 10 or 11 of the Top 15 players this year are defenders.   Numerous edge rushers, two or three CBs, a pair of LBs, a couple of DTs.  Sprinkled in that top 15 are probably 2 or 3 OTs, maybe 2 or 3 WRs, no RBs, no TEs, no QBs (although one or two may be taken).

The Jets need to take what this Draft is giving them.  Early on, that feels like defenders unless they’re really high on Ikem or Neal at #4 and the two best Edge guys are gone. WR could be a consideration at #10.

But the secondary is the X factor.  How many high quality starters do the Jets have in the back 4-5?  That 3rd level of the defense has Bryce Hall who I’d say is a quality CB2-level player.  After that?  Meh.  MCII is promising, and had a very good rookie year but we can’t claim he’s going to be great.  Echols?  Interesting.  Safeties? Davis, Pinnock???  With that kind of secondary, the Jets sitting at #4 and #10, and some elite guys like Kyle Hamilton and Sauce Gardner worthy of Top 10 picks it may not be a stretch to see one of those two picks used on the secondary.

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Johnson at 4 to me seems like a reach. I think he’ll be a solid pro. But seems to have limited upside.  Will he have a couple 10+ Sack seasons? Sure maybe , but will he be a perennial all pro? Don’t think so. I personally don’t think any of these edge rushers are top tier prospects. I really don’t like picking at 4. If thibs (high ceiling) or hutch (high floor) aren’t there then the rest of the bunch scream late first early second to me. I really liked azeez from last year and he fell to the mid second. Are these guys any better than him? Idk how about paye who went late 1st? Dont think so . I’d take paye over Johnson. 4 is just such a black hole. I hope the rumors are true and we can somehow land TJ Watt or Jeudy in a trade down scenario 

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12 hours ago, derp said:

TJ Watt got drafted at 30. And is one player. In general, older breakouts are riskier. Not a lot of guys who break out their redshirt senior year go in the top five.

I'm going with Derp on this one. You don't throw guidelines out the window because of an outlier like Watt. 

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On 2/18/2022 at 7:38 PM, Untouchable said:

Gardner and Karlaftis in Round 1, package one of the 2nd’s for Cooper/Jeudy/Ridley, take Zion with the other 2nd, sign Njoku in FA and draft Ruckert or Ferguson at the top of the 3rd.

Profit 

Really hard to see Zion make it past the Bengals or Jaguars with all of their O line issues and need to protect their franchise QBs.

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On 2/18/2022 at 11:49 PM, PLO said:

He's not in play at 4, but at 10, possibly, though his actual value is probably in the 20s. A knock on him is the body type, the high hips/long legs, but his motor is ridiculous. 

Travon Walker should also be discussed. 

I'm honestly not averse to double dipping at edge at both 4 and 10 if Thibs is there at 4. If we do draft any other position group at 4 I think edge at 10 is a must. 

I get the feeling that Walker is going to be a big riser and will go a lot higher than a lot of people expect.

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3 hours ago, maury77 said:

I'm going with Derp on this one. You don't throw guidelines out the window because of an outlier like Watt. 

It was TJ Watt and Aaron Donald, but I digress.  The argument is that older draft picks shouldn’t be considered in the top-5 because they lack talent to justify a high pick. 

It’s a fair argument; with early college departure the draft has been flooded with Uber-talented Juniors who can play in the league.  It’s faulty to logic to conclude that means older players can’t.  

See: Watt and Donald, both 23 year old rookies. 

I’d argue that there are a sh*t ton of more meaningful numbers that trump age (games missed to injury, 40 times, 10-yard splits, bench press, 3-cone, and short shuttle).  I personally wouldn’t take a player off my big board for being a JUCO transfer that took time to develop into the ACC defensive player of the year.  

This kid worked his tail off and it showed at the Senior Bowl practices against upper-tier competition. 

If you saw JJ tape paired with Thibodeaux hype, drafting him top-5 would be a no brainer. 

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24 minutes ago, Greenseed4 said:

It was TJ Watt and Aaron Donald, but I digress.  The argument is that older draft picks shouldn’t be considered in the top-5 because they lack talent to justify a high pick. 

It’s a fair argument; with early college departure the draft has been flooded with Uber-talented Juniors who can play in the league.  It’s faulty to logic to conclude that means older players can’t.  

See: Watt and Donald, both 23 year old rookies. 

I’d argue that there are a sh*t ton of more meaningful numbers that trump age (games missed to injury, 40 times, 10-yard splits, bench press, 3-cone, and short shuttle).  I personally wouldn’t take a player off my big board for being a JUCO transfer that took time to develop into the ACC defensive player of the year.  

This kid worked his tail off and it showed at the Senior Bowl practices against upper-tier competition. 

If you saw JJ tape paired with Thibodeaux hype, drafting him top-5 would be a no brainer. 

That’s not the argument. It’s breakout age, not draft age. 

As I said in my response to your other post, Donald broke out (11 sacks) as a sophomore in college. So it’s not Watt and Donald, it’s just Watt.

And nobody’s saying older players can’t develop or taking them off boards. But there’s added risk when a guy doesn’t break out until he’s more physically developed than his competition and then you’re asking him to play against NFL competition.

Johnson’s also going to turn 24 late in his rookie year, not 23.

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26 minutes ago, Greenseed4 said:

It was TJ Watt and Aaron Donald, but I digress.  The argument is that older draft picks shouldn’t be considered in the top-5 because they lack talent to justify a high pick. 

It’s a fair argument; with early college departure the draft has been flooded with Uber-talented Juniors who can play in the league.  It’s faulty to logic to conclude that means older players can’t.  

See: Watt and Donald, both 23 year old rookies. 

I’d argue that there are a sh*t ton of more meaningful numbers that trump age (games missed to injury, 40 times, 10-yard splits, bench press, 3-cone, and short shuttle).  I personally wouldn’t take a player off my big board for being a JUCO transfer that took time to develop into the ACC defensive player of the year.  

This kid worked his tail off and it showed at the Senior Bowl practices against upper-tier competition. 

If you saw JJ tape paired with Thibodeaux hype, drafting him top-5 would be a no brainer. 

That’s fine, I’m just philosophically more conservative when picking in the top 10. I’d rather hit a double than go for the home run and strike out.

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On 2/19/2022 at 7:18 AM, sec101row23 said:

So true.  Draft age is such an over-looked metric when evaluating these players.   Draft age is going to become even more critical in the future IMO.  We are going to see more and more kids skip their Senior year in high school due to NIL opportunities.   Since the clock to draft eligibility starts when a player leaves HS, we are going to be seeing more 19 and 20 year old draft eligible prospects.  We are seeing this with Wisconsin RB Braelon Allen.   He dominated this past season as a 17 year old kid who skipped his senior year.   He’ll be 19 when drafted.  

It’s going to add more variablity to the process.  
 

Zach was a late bloomer and was drafted young.   I think might end up being stocky but he gets called slight. I think it makes sense anyway.  The scouts can spot lots of guys in HS.  
 

4 seems to high for Johnson II.  10 seems aggressive but if the FO likes him there, great.   

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2 hours ago, Hal N of Provo said:

It’s going to add more variablity to the process.  
 

Zach was a late bloomer and was drafted young.   I think might end up being stocky but he gets called slight. I think it makes sense anyway.  The scouts can spot lots of guys in HS.  
 

4 seems to high for Johnson II.  10 seems aggressive but if the FO likes him there, great.   

I hear ya but 4 seems high for a guard (ikey) in my eyes too. Just don’t really know what to do here except take best edge available according to the Jets draft board. 

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I believe there will be value at the edge in the 2nd round with players like Mafe, Ebiketie, Sanders and Enagbare being available. Hell even Johnson could drop to the 2nd. 

There are already 5 edge with 1st round grades: Hutch, Thib, Karl, Walker & Ojabo.

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On 2/18/2022 at 3:35 PM, GangGreen Machine said:

Starting this thread under the pretext that Fant and a healthy Becton will be Left and Right Tackles next year. With that as this hypothetical, I'm having some reservations with drafting a Guard/Tackle at #4. Given if Kayvon and Hutch are gone... The more I watch Jermaine Johnson II the more I like him. Plays a premier position at edge. The Jets desperately need QB pressure, especially if we are thinking we can "coach up" the secondary with vets and late round picks. Anyone have any more insight on this guy? 

He is rocketing up draft boards. Seems we already have a guy who makes his money off of QB hits and hurries (Lawson) so Karlaftis is out for me this high.  

 

 

I agree with you and posted similar in another thread. Jets need an Edge and JJ is worth considering at #4 over a G from the ACC

5 minutes ago, 92ShaunEllis92 said:


as much as we need to upgrade the O-line, there is talent that can be had in the 2nd round in terms of IOL and OTs.

Jets MUST come away with a Edge pass Rusher & WR Drake London from this draft. For the sake of having both defensive & offensive playmakers who can have immediate impact.
 

Edge is rather obvious as a pass rush is crucial for this defense to succeed. JD has demonstrated that the scheme can yield starters in the secondary (S and CBs) from late round draft picks: Echols, MC2, Pinnock, UDFA CB from OSU. I like Sauce, but 1st round talent needs to be added to the meat & potatoes of this defense: DLine & pass rush ……..
 

If you must draft OLine again in the 1st round for the 3rd consecutive year, then I’d go with a pass protecting OT Charles Cross (SEC) at #4 over Ekwonu (ACC) if Neal is gone; otherwise Edge: Hutch, Thibs, JJ. 

 

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