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Jermaine Johnson II at #4?


GangGreen Machine
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38 minutes ago, HighPitch said:

What i dont understand is this love for thibs.

first off he is a weirdo primadonna. 
 

thibs had 7 sacks last year. JJ had double. 14. Whats up?

JJ has less pressures which are more indicative of consistent translatable pass rush than saca.

JJ is less athletic, long, and bendy.

JJ is 2 years older. 

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1 hour ago, kdels62 said:

JJ has less pressures which are more indicative of consistent translatable pass rush than saca.

JJ is less athletic, long, and bendy.

JJ is 2 years older. 

JJ by far is a better edge setter. Top 2 after Hutch against the run for me. 
 

It’s anecdotal but worth considering this for ojabo, walker, and Hutch… It’s nice to tee off on qb’s when you are up a few scores. Florida state had little of that this year.
 

Can’t deny the age difference, although edge defenders usually age favorably in the nfl so JJ still could have more ceiling to untap.

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10 hours ago, HighPitch said:

I dont buy the age thing. If you draft him youll get 5 or 6 years of his prime. Then he will sign elsewhere

sam darnold says hi

It’s about break out and wins against competition. Essentially a 20 year old beating up on 22-23 year olds is more impressive and indicative of rare talent than a 22-23 year old beating other 22-23 year olds.

10 hours ago, GangGreen Machine said:

JJ by far is a better edge setter. Top 2 after Hutch against the run for me. 
 

It’s anecdotal but worth considering this for ojabo, walker, and Hutch… It’s nice to tee off on qb’s when you are up a few scores. Florida state had little of that this year.
 

Can’t deny the age difference, although edge defenders usually age favorably in the nfl so JJ still could have more ceiling to untap.

You’re not drafting an Edge player for his ability to set the edge or even play the run. That being said JJ isn’t great against the run either but I don’t think that matters either way. 

Here’s games against common opponents. Tell me who you think was better. To me it’s Karlaftis by a mile.

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3 hours ago, kdels62 said:

It’s about break out and wins against competition. Essentially a 20 year old beating up on 22-23 year olds is more impressive and indicative of rare talent than a 22-23 year old beating other 22-23 year olds.

You’re not drafting an Edge player for his ability to set the edge or even play the run. That being said JJ isn’t great against the run either but I don’t think that matters either way. 

Here’s games against common opponents. Tell me who you think was better. To me it’s Karlaftis by a mile.

“You’re not drafting an Edge player for his ability to set the edge or even play the run.“

this is news to me. Seems a pretty important aspect of the game. I would say you don’t draft an edge who gets a lot of QB hurries at #4 but little sacks. 
 

I’ve watched both of these games. If it’s splash plays you’re looking for it’s JJ. Karlaftis reminds me of Lawson, whom we already have. Can hurry the QB and disrupt but doesnt finish with the sack for some reason. 
 

Also, I’m a notre dame fan, didn’t they have a terrible injury bug on the o line during the Season? Sounded like the announcer said they are on their 3rd string left tackle. 

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6 hours ago, kdels62 said:

It’s about break out and wins against competition. Essentially a 20 year old beating up on 22-23 year olds is more impressive and indicative of rare talent than a 22-23 year old beating other 22-23 year olds.

You’re not drafting an Edge player for his ability to set the edge or even play the run. That being said JJ isn’t great against the run either but I don’t think that matters either way. 

Here’s games against common opponents. Tell me who you think was better. To me it’s Karlaftis by a mile.

Vs Notre Dame

JJ - 7 tackles / 1.5 Sacks / 2.5 TFL 

Karlaftis - 2 tackles / .5 sacks / 2 TFL 

I think JJ is better both on paper and with my eyeballs in this particular game. 

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20 minutes ago, Greenseed4 said:

For a fun game to watch, this is a cut-up of just Florida State (DL) vs. North Carolina (OL). 
Some really great reps of Jermaine Johnson (#11)  vs. Icky Ekwonu (#79)

 

Honestly, Id love to see these two lined up against each other in Jets uniforms at spring training. Icky got a good pancake block on JJ in the first. JJ had a good spin move on Icky in the second half at 11:50. 

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9 hours ago, GangGreen Machine said:

“You’re not drafting an Edge player for his ability to set the edge or even play the run.“

this is news to me. Seems a pretty important aspect of the game. I would say you don’t draft an edge who gets a lot of QB hurries at #4 but little sacks. 
 

I’ve watched both of these games. If it’s splash plays you’re looking for it’s JJ. Karlaftis reminds me of Lawson, whom we already have. Can hurry the QB and disrupt but doesnt finish with the sack for some reason. 
 

Also, I’m a notre dame fan, didn’t they have a terrible injury bug on the o line during the Season? Sounded like the announcer said they are on their 3rd string left tackle. 

They had injuries to the benefit of both JJ and Karlaftis. I’m curious. What did you see in the performance that made JJ seem like a better prospect than Karlaftis?

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9 minutes ago, kdels62 said:

They had injuries to the benefit of both JJ and Karlaftis. I’m curious. What did you see in the performance that made JJ seem like a better prospect than Karlaftis?

#54 LT Blake Fisher was not on the field for Perdue. Got hurt and didn’t play second half of FSU game. #79 doesn’t belong on that field vs Perdue he is so far down the depth chart.
I’m not going to get in the weeds with you over prospects at the same position in Feb. I don’t talk “bend” “motor” or any of that scout jargon if that’s what your looking for in an answer. I see results with JJ I don’t with Karlaftis it’s that simple with me personally.
 

Im tried of drafting high at d line and getting 5 sacks a year out of the guy. Let’s get a guy who finishes at the QB. Maybe it’s someone else but I’m looking at JJ currently. 

Happy to talk about what you love about GK just as much as I like to talk about JJ. 

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I enjoy reading these threads. I've been high JJ II for a while, but it's always good to hear the other side.

The breakout age knock, the most cited one here, is certainly fair and does matter. The physical changes happen fast at that age and if you're 22/23 going against 19-20 year olds, you have a distinct advantage physically, and an extra few years of coaching/technique.

I prefer JJ II over all the pass rushers in this draft - he's my "Vontae Mack no matter what" - but I can't deny how seemingly deep this class is at his position and perhaps value could be found @ that position later on. 

That being said, the combine will give us a much clearer picture of where to value all of these guys appropriately.

In week or so we can revisit this and give a far better assessment. 

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True JJ has the super senior tag but he produced at a high level. My worry about Karlaftis is he doesn’t have the finishing technique and might be a replica of Lawson which could be easy to game plan for. Ojabo, i haven’t looked at enough… too early in the off-season to see everyone so I am excited to find out what he’s made of. Double digit sacks opposite the projected #1 can’t be ignored. I heard he is super raw. I am a fan of Gardner but don’t see him as a fit in this defense. 
Could do a lot worse than 2 Lawson's
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3 hours ago, Dunnie said:
On 2/18/2022 at 4:20 PM, GangGreen Machine said:
True JJ has the super senior tag but he produced at a high level. My worry about Karlaftis is he doesn’t have the finishing technique and might be a replica of Lawson which could be easy to game plan for. Ojabo, i haven’t looked at enough… too early in the off-season to see everyone so I am excited to find out what he’s made of. Double digit sacks opposite the projected #1 can’t be ignored. I heard he is super raw. I am a fan of Gardner but don’t see him as a fit in this defense. 

Could do a lot worse than 2 Lawson's

Like I mentioned in a previous post about sacks vs hurries.

“You take the girl to the dance, get some dinner, walk her to the door at the end of the night, and shake her hand goodnight.” 

Close only counts in horseshoes, hand grenades, and dancing cheek to cheek. 

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On 2/25/2022 at 6:55 PM, GangGreen Machine said:

#54 LT Blake Fisher was not on the field for Perdue. Got hurt and didn’t play second half of FSU game. #79 doesn’t belong on that field vs Perdue he is so far down the depth chart.
I’m not going to get in the weeds with you over prospects at the same position in Feb. I don’t talk “bend” “motor” or any of that scout jargon if that’s what your looking for in an answer. I see results with JJ I don’t with Karlaftis it’s that simple with me personally.
 

Im tried of drafting high at d line and getting 5 sacks a year out of the guy. Let’s get a guy who finishes at the QB. Maybe it’s someone else but I’m looking at JJ currently. 

Happy to talk about what you love about GK just as much as I like to talk about JJ. 

While I get the frustration, to me it is important to get into the weeds because it allows you to find what really makes for a successful player in a draft. The weeds allow us to avoid drafting guys who may not represent great value or consistency. In particular sack totals don't really give you much. Guys like Vic Beasley, Gholston, Clelin Ferrell, or Derek Barnett would all have been better players. Going through the traits and the method of success is important. 

However, the combine is here and it will tell us a lot about which edge players are actually worthy of their place on mock drafts. 

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On 2/25/2022 at 12:26 PM, GangGreen Machine said:

Vs Notre Dame

JJ - 7 tackles / 1.5 Sacks / 2.5 TFL 

Karlaftis - 2 tackles / .5 sacks / 2 TFL 

I think JJ is better both on paper and with my eyeballs in this particular game. 

This.

Can someone please explain to me why Karlaftis keeps showing up ahead of Jermaine Johnson in mocks and rankings. 
 

Doesn’t make sense.

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31 minutes ago, RedBeardedSavage said:

Revisiting post combine - anyone change their opinion?

Still big on JJ. Don’t think he did anything to help or hurt his stock. Wouldn’t mind picking Walker at 4. Both might not be there at 10 and both might go before Kayvon. 

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  • 1 month later...

Kayvon seems to be getting some pre draft flack. Walkers draft stock is getting out of control with the draft hype after the combine.
 

Again, I would strongly consider JJ at 4 if the Jets think Becton can bounce back from this injury.
 

Sauce at 4 is my only consolation. 

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On 4/8/2022 at 5:48 PM, Marshmello said:

Greg Cosell thinks Johnson is the best pass rusher in this draft class.

 

 

Again, I’m with Cosell I don’t understand  JJ’s modest grade. I want Icky at 4 and JJ at 10. Build the trenches.

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On 2/25/2022 at 2:53 PM, GangGreen Machine said:

Honestly, Id love to see these two lined up against each other in Jets uniforms at spring training. Icky got a good pancake block on JJ in the first. JJ had a good spin move on Icky in the second half at 11:50. 

Yeah but it was mostly elite talent by Ekwonu.  The other defensive lineman Thomas looked more explosive and beat Ekwonu with speed to power.  Besides the spin move and strong hands, did not see explosiveness from Johnson.  

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2 minutes ago, Phillyjet said:

Yeah but it was mostly elite talent by Ekwonu.  The other defensive lineman Thomas looked more explosive and beat Ekwonu with speed to power.  Besides the spin move and strong hands, did not see explosiveness from Johnson.  

Who are you considering at 4? 

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49 minutes ago, NYJCAP2 said:

Again, I’m with Cosell I don’t understand  JJ’s modest grade. I want Icky at 4 and JJ at 10. Build the trenches.

That would be an amazing top 2 picks. I am on the "get back into the first for a WR" band wagon too.

Icky, JJ, and any of Williams/Burks/Watson/London/Wilson in the second half of the first would be fantastic.  

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38 minutes ago, maury77 said:

Can someone point me to a game with good tape for Johnson? I watched the following North Carolina tape and was very underwhelmed:

 

Feeling underwhelmed is the way I feel with this entire draft class.

I do not want KT, Walker is a risk. JJ is an elite run defender and not only got to the quarterback but finished with big sacks. Athleticism checks out and seems to fit the scheme.
 

He won’t last to #10 so why mess around and potentially lose out on the best position group of this draft class? 

That being said, I like JJ’s tape against ND and Miami. 
 

 

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13 hours ago, GangGreen Machine said:

Feeling underwhelmed is the way I feel with this entire draft class.

I do not want KT, Walker is a risk. JJ is an elite run defender and not only got to the quarterback but finished with big sacks. Athleticism checks out and seems to fit the scheme.
 

He won’t last to #10 so why mess around and potentially lose out on the best position group of this draft class? 

That being said, I like JJ’s tape against ND and Miami. 
 

 

I’ll check out those games

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On 4/13/2022 at 8:37 AM, maury77 said:

I’ll check out those games

When watching the Miami game  note the difference when JJ played against Zion Nelson (LT) and when he played against the RT who was a back up who had to play do to injury. 

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I'm not looking to argue with anyone if they like Johnson, but after watching the Notre Dame game and the UNC game, I don't understand the appeal. Not particularly fast out of his stance, uses a 2 handed swipe too often that leaves him too far away from the QB, uses the spin at akward times, don't see him convert speed to power as often as I would like. He has some nice run defense reps where he stays low, explodes into the blocker and disengages, but aside from that? Meh. I wouldn't take him in the first. 

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On 2/25/2022 at 5:43 AM, kdels62 said:

It’s about break out and wins against competition. Essentially a 20 year old beating up on 22-23 year olds is more impressive and indicative of rare talent than a 22-23 year old beating other 22-23 year olds.

You’re not drafting an Edge player for his ability to set the edge or even play the run. That being said JJ isn’t great against the run either but I don’t think that matters either way. 

Here’s games against common opponents. Tell me who you think was better. To me it’s Karlaftis by a mile.

I watched the same tape and saw a more polished, balanced player in Johnson.  He is stouter against the run, tough to move, and sometimes lines up in the middle.  Karlaftis had him with a bigger get-off, but he is often blown out of the play.  I see Johnson a notch above for the more well-rounded player on this tape comparison. 

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It's going to be interesting test case with JJ II.

The more traditional scouts, like Cosell and Simms (traditional in process as opposed to age/experience), seem to love JJ II whereas the data analytics crowd are not nearly as high on him.

Should be fun to see how this plays out and what we can learn from it. 

The no 3 cone/short shuttle really bothers me - the more information the better and not participating in certain tests always seems like a red flag - as in you know you're not going to perform well in that. 

But the broad jump, arm length, 10 yard split and bench press reps were all really good. 

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