Jermaine Johnson II at #4?

[GangGreen Machine]

4 hours ago, maury77 said:

I'm not looking to argue with anyone if they like Johnson, but after watching the Notre Dame game and the UNC game, I don't understand the appeal. Not particularly fast out of his stance, uses a 2 handed swipe too often that leaves him too far away from the QB, uses the spin at akward times, don't see him convert speed to power as often as I would like. He has some nice run defense reps where he stays low, explodes into the blocker and disengages, but aside from that? Meh. I wouldn't take him in the first. 

That’s unfortunate to hear. I’m no scouting expert just a fan who likes the draft so maybe you’re right. But I do love his motor and what he brings to the run game aside from his sack numbers this year. 
 

Since writing this original post and having better eyeballs poking holes in his game, admittedly Ive since boarded the Sauce at 4 / JJ at 10 train. Just really don’t want to miss out on an edge. 

[maury77]

26 minutes ago, GangGreen Machine said:

That’s unfortunate to hear. I’m no scouting expert just a fan who likes the draft so maybe you’re right. But I do love his motor and what he brings to the run game aside from his sack numbers this year. 
 

Since writing this original post and having better eyeballs poking holes in his game, admittedly Ive since boarded the Sauce at 4 / JJ at 10 train. Just really don’t want to miss out on an edge. 

That's cool man, I'm not a scout either and my opinion is no better than yours. At the end of the day we all want to see the Jets do well. I honestly don't really love any of the edge guys in this class (Hutch and KT included). I liked Jaelan Phillips better last year than any of the edges this year. I think at this stage I'd rather go, say, Gardner at 4, Wilson (hopefully) at 10, then take 2 edges in the second round and hope that at least one of them pans out (Ojabo, Mafe, Ebiketie). 

[GangGreen Machine]

1 minute ago, maury77 said:

That's cool man, I'm not a scout either and my opinion is no better than yours. At the end of the day we all want to see the Jets do well. I honestly don't really love any of the edge guys in this class (Hutch and KT included). I liked Jaelan Phillips better last year than any of the edges this year. I think at this stage I'd rather go, say, Gardner at 4, Wilson (hopefully) at 10, then take 2 edges in the second round and hope that at least one of them pans out (Ojabo, Mafe, Ebiketie). 

First Sauce, then JJ, and end with Burks in a first round trade up would be my best scenario right now.

I think a lot of fans are married to the idea saleh needs a great stable of d lineman for this defense to work. that’s why most are pressing for edge at 4 or 10. 

Wouldn't mind Mafe or Ebiketie if wilson was picked at 10 though. 

[32EBoozer]

On 2/24/2022 at 4:43 PM, HighPitch said:

What i dont understand is this love for thibs.

first off he is a weirdo primadonna. 
 

thibs had 7 sacks last year. JJ had double. 14. Whats up?

Playing in a stronger conference and without the Freudian observations of life & football.

[GangGreen Machine]

Things that make you go, hmmmm.... Will he last to 10? Maybe not.

 

 

[kdels62]

42 minutes ago, GangGreen Machine said:

Things that make you go, hmmmm.... Will he last to 10? Maybe not.

 

 

Guy reports on Tony Pauline’s report isn’t worth analyzing. I trust posters in this draft forum way more. 

[GangGreen Machine]

5 minutes ago, kdels62 said:

Guy reports on Tony Pauline’s report isn’t worth analyzing. I trust posters in this draft forum way more. 

Yeah, I know, "Sauce is the #4 pick." Lol 

[kdels62]

1 minute ago, GangGreen Machine said:

Yeah, I know, "Sauce is the #4 pick." Lol 

Nah it’s just that these bloggers with no knowledge citing a notoriously bad source have started to get on my nerves. The Jets fan internet community is huge and growing which makes it important to siphon through the nothing and find the substance. For instance if you’d posted the Tony Pauline report, I probably would’ve just said “well Tony Pauline is usually wrong but I’d hate this so he’s probably right.” 

[Columbia Jet Fan]

Curious what people think of this: 

There is some more JJ conversation at the 28 minute mark or so... but I clipped the video when they talk about pass rush win rate outside the tackle spot. Long story short - among power five edges since 2017 - #1 is a tie between Chasee Young and Nick Bosa, #3 was Josh Allen (Kentucky), 4th was Aiden Hutchinson and Karalaftis, Ebikete was 7th, Thibs was 15th, Mafe was 36th, Ojabo 41st...

Jermaine Johnson was 111th...

Its obviously only one stat - but pretty alarming when comparing him to other prospects. 

They also talk earlier (at like the 28 min mark) about how JJ may have dominated at senior bowl - but he is 1-2 years older than most people there... he was the only round 1 edge in attendance so not a lot of competition, and most of the tackles in attendance are not the elite prospects of this draft (no Cross, Icky, Neal, etc)

If they take him at four OK - I don't think hes a bust - but I can't say I'm super excited about picking him at all in the first round - let alone at 4. 

 

 

[kdels62]

2 minutes ago, Columbia Jet Fan said:

Curious what people think of this: 

There is some more JJ conversation at the 28 minute mark or so... but I clipped the video when they talk about pass rush win rate outside the tackle spot. Long story short - among power five edges since 2017 - #1 is a tie between Chasee Young and Nick Bosa, #3 was Josh Allen (Kentucky), 4th was Aiden Hutchinson and Karalaftis, Ebikete was 7th, Thibs was 15th, Mafe was 36th, Ojabo 41st...

Jermaine Johnson was 111th...

Its obviously only one stat - but pretty alarming when comparing him to other prospects. 

They also talk earlier (at like the 28 min mark) about how JJ may have dominated at senior bowl - but he is 1-2 years older than most people there... he was the only round 1 edge in attendance so not a lot of competition, and most of the tackles in attendance are not the elite prospects of this draft (no Cross, Icky, Neal, etc)

If they take him at four OK - I don't think hes a bust - but I can't say I'm super excited about picking him at all in the first round - let alone at 4. 

 

 

They’re just reading my analysis of Jermaine Johnson and repeating it. 

[nycdan]

13 hours ago, GangGreen Machine said:

First Sauce, then JJ, and end with Burks in a first round trade up would be my best scenario right now.

I think a lot of fans are married to the idea saleh needs a great stable of d lineman for this defense to work. that’s why most are pressing for edge at 4 or 10. 

Wouldn't mind Mafe or Ebiketie if wilson was picked at 10 though. 

Forget 'great stable'.

This is our Edge roster:  Lawson, Huff, Zuniga, Martin.

JFM played Edge but he's a better DT and should end up back inside once we can put quality edges on the field.

So right now, Edge is our biggest need, bar none.

You could well argue for taking two edge players in the first 3 rounds.

[GangGreen Machine]

1 minute ago, nycdan said:

Forget 'great stable'.

This is our Edge roster:  Lawson, Huff, Zuniga, Martin.

JFM played Edge but he's a better DT and should end up back inside once we can put quality edges on the field.

So right now, Edge is our biggest need, bar none.

You could well argue for taking two edge players in the first 3 rounds.

If Saleh is half the Defensive guru he is made out to be, he doesn't need an great stable at any D position to achieve success.

What he does need is a compliment to Lawson that also places Huff/Martin as rotational depth pieces and kicks JFM inside with Q. Why I agree, edge is the biggest need. 

[slimjasi]

Interesting seeing JJ/Jets chatter.

 

seems like a good fit 

[maury77]

I'm starting to feel that Boye Mafe at the top of the second round is going to be a better value pick than KT or JJ in the top 10. 

[GangGreen Machine]

57 minutes ago, maury77 said:

I'm starting to feel that Boye Mafe at the top of the second round is going to be a better value pick than KT or JJ in the top 10. 

I don’t know much about Mafe other than the senior bowl and he is 6-8 best edge on most pro mock draft lists. Would love some insight on him if you are proposing the Jets hold off on this positional need til the 2nd.

I will say, it pains me to think of how much we need an edge, and wait 34 picks to get one. I have a similar feeling with WR. 

But I do understand the top level guys, not named Hutch, are going to be a reach for edge needy teams. 

I have shifted my thoughts to Sauce or Ickey 4 and hopefully JJ 10 for what it’s worth. 

[maury77]

2 hours ago, GangGreen Machine said:

I don’t know much about Mafe other than the senior bowl and he is 6-8 best edge on most pro mock draft lists. Would love some insight on him if you are proposing the Jets hold off on this positional need til the 2nd.

I will say, it pains me to think of how much we need an edge, and wait 34 picks to get one. I have a similar feeling with WR. 

But I do understand the top level guys, not named Hutch, are going to be a reach for edge needy teams. 

I have shifted my thoughts to Sauce or Ickey 4 and hopefully JJ 10 for what it’s worth. 

I don't necessarily propose holding off on edge in the first round, but regarding Mafe:

1. Elite RAS

 

2. His tape

He's super explosive, has really good flexibility coming up the arc, uses his length well to keep him blocker at a distance, smooth moving athlete all over the field, shows a power element to his game and that can improve as I think he can add some weight to that frame. 

The production isn't quite where I want it to be, but he came on this season and had a good senior bowl, so he might be a bit of a late bloomer. 

[Dinamite]

10 hours ago, maury77 said:

I don't necessarily propose holding off on edge in the first round, but regarding Mafe:

1. Elite RAS

 

2. His tape

He's super explosive, has really good flexibility coming up the arc, uses his length well to keep him blocker at a distance, smooth moving athlete all over the field, shows a power element to his game and that can improve as I think he can add some weight to that frame. 

The production isn't quite where I want it to be, but he came on this season and had a good senior bowl, so he might be a bit of a late bloomer. 

I read somewhere (Dane Brugler perhaps?) That in the jets system he would shine as he is asked to just pin his ears and rush.   He didn't benefit from that in college, which could explain the production issue.  Perhaps one of the reasons he did well on senior bowl.

[Adoni Beast]

On 4/15/2022 at 12:05 AM, GangGreen Machine said:

First Sauce, then JJ, and end with Burks in a first round trade up would be my best scenario right now.

I think a lot of fans are married to the idea saleh needs a great stable of d lineman for this defense to work. that’s why most are pressing for edge at 4 or 10. 

Wouldn't mind Mafe or Ebiketie if wilson was picked at 10 though. 

I agree if Ekwonu is sitting there at 4

and

Wilson or Jamo Williams at 10…

there are good edge choices in the 2nd

[BurntDice]

I heard on a podcast today I think it was pff that JJ average time per sack was like 3.5 seconds + which is pretty damn long. In the nfl average time it takes qbs to get rid of the ball is usually 3.2 and under. 
 

That raises some red flags for me. Sounds like he’ll eat on coverage sacks, but creating pressure fast? Doesn’t seem to be the case 

[jetstream23]

At #4 if it's not Hutchinson or Thibs then wait on Edge

At #10 I'd have both Jermaine Johnson and Karlaftis on my list.  If they are both gone (shouldn't be) then the Jets should wait and trade up from #35 and then...

In late 1st/early 2nd get Ebiketie.

That would be my plan.  The Jets can find their Edge in this Draft and because they're sprinkled throughout the first couple rounds they should have candidates at each of those picks.  Just have to decide when to strike and take him!

You'll notice I didn't mention Walker anywhere.  I certainly don't want him at #4 and I might be one of the few people who would pass on him at #10 as well.  I'm just not sure I'd take a guy who was a bit underwhelming on the field and overdraft him because he won the "Underwear Olympics" while working out at the Combine.

[Paradis]

my dream scenario is Sauce at #4 and JJ and #10 ....With Gardner in the fold along with Reeder/Hall and all our young bucks, our secondary will be quickly become a strength. No more chasing CBs annually, JJ is a complete DE imo. 

Then sit back and snag Burks/Pickens 

[Dcat]

5 hours ago, Paradis said:

my dream scenario is Sauce at #4 and JJ and #10 ....With Gardner in the fold along with Reeder/Hall and all our young bucks, our secondary will be quickly become a strength. No more chasing CBs annually, JJ is a complete DE imo. 

Then sit back and snag Burks/Pickens 

ahem

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/15gAZNEwycNV7PFr3E_qezgKPuRCNj0hCCkTz5usLejE/edit?usp=sharing

[maury77]

11 hours ago, BurntDice said:

I heard on a podcast today I think it was pff that JJ average time per sack was like 3.5 seconds + which is pretty damn long. In the nfl average time it takes qbs to get rid of the ball is usually 3.2 and under. 
 

That raises some red flags for me. Sounds like he’ll eat on coverage sacks, but creating pressure fast? Doesn’t seem to be the case 

That aligns with what I saw on tape in those 2 games I watched. 

[Maynard13]

On 2/18/2022 at 6:15 PM, kdels62 said:

At 4? 

Karlaftis/ Ojabo/ Gardner/ Ekonwu (maybe)

Straight up Gardner is the best player in this draft. Karlaftis and Ojabo have higher pressure rates and are 2 years younger than JJ. Even with 2 years more of life JJ doesn’t have the technique that Karlaftis has and he’s not as athletic as Ojabo. 

If Thibs and Hutch are gone, does JD fall back on Walker or JJ? Does he just swing with Sauce? I’d take Sauce over JJ and Walker in that scenario. He’s just a safer bet. JD can always 1-trade down at 10 and get extra picks which would be sweet considering this roster sucks 2-there are other edges out there that can be had like Karalaftis, Mayfe and Ekitbe that are rated highly as well. 

[BurntDice]

54 minutes ago, maury77 said:

That aligns with what I saw on tape in those 2 games I watched. 

I’m really starting to just want to wait till the 2nd to take an edge if hutch and KT aren’t there at 4. The next like 6-8 guys after them seem all about the same. 

[kdels62]

54 minutes ago, Maynard13 said:

If Thibs and Hutch are gone, does JD fall back on Walker or JJ? Does he just swing with Sauce? I’d take Sauce over JJ and Walker in that scenario. He’s just a safer bet. JD can always 1-trade down at 10 and get extra picks which would be sweet considering this roster sucks 2-there are other edges out there that can be had like Karalaftis, Mayfe and Ekitbe that are rated highly as well. 

If they’re gone JD has to take Sauce unless he can get a haul of picks. Get the best player in the draft and the real the benefits of actually getting off the field on 3rd down and giving Zach more possessions. 

[GangGreen Machine]

The Dane Brugler Tweet Today...

 

[bitonti]

On 2/24/2022 at 4:43 PM, HighPitch said:

What i dont understand is this love for thibs.

first off he is a weirdo primadonna. 
 

thibs had 7 sacks last year. JJ had double. 14. Whats up?

I like JJ a thousand times more than Thibs but watching these highlights I'm wondering how any edge rusher helps the 22 NYJ offense. That's what worries me more. 

[GangGreen Machine]

@kdels62 let’s go!!! Sauce, Wilson and JJ holy hell. 

[kdels62]

29 minutes ago, GangGreen Machine said:

@kdels62 let’s go!!! Sauce, Wilson and JJ holy hell. 

Can’t complain about JJ in the mid 20s. 

[RedBeardedSavage]

13 minutes ago, kdels62 said:

Can’t complain about JJ in the mid 20s. 

You get Sauce, I get JJ and somehow #2 gets a receiver as well.

Pretty crazy.

[Jets Voice of Reason]

It’s been a long time since all the draft guys here also are ecstatic about the Jets draft. We legit did have morons drafting before JD who didn’t understand positional value, how to GM, how to construct a roster, or how to scout or use analytics. 
 

[JetBlue]

On 2/20/2022 at 1:34 PM, derp said:

That’s not the argument. It’s breakout age, not draft age. 

As I said in my response to your other post, Donald broke out (11 sacks) as a sophomore in college. So it’s not Watt and Donald, it’s just Watt.

And nobody’s saying older players can’t develop or taking them off boards. But there’s added risk when a guy doesn’t break out until he’s more physically developed than his competition and then you’re asking him to play against NFL competition.

Johnson’s also going to turn 24 late in his rookie year, not 23.

I believe he just turned 23 a few months ago... 

[kdels62]

5 minutes ago, JetBlue said:

I believe he just turned 23 a few months ago... 

January. So he will end the season as a 24 year old rookie, technically not wrong but probably functionally irrelevant.

[JetBlue]

10 minutes ago, kdels62 said:

January. So he will end the season as a 24 year old rookie, technically not wrong but probably functionally irrelevant.

Pretty much like this entire age issue.  The dude is a dog and should have 5-7 seasons of quality play.  That is long enough for me.