Popular Post 32EBoozer Posted February 20, 2022 Popular Post Share Posted February 20, 2022 With the Combine 2 weeks away and the Mock Drafts starting to flow, I would remind everyone of how JD and his Scouting Dept set up their board Provided by the journalist formerly known as Manish Meta People, me included, fall in love with certain players and form their board and mock trades to gather said players JD sees only “Form, Fit, Function” and how a player can compliment the system while also providing very solid RAS numbers https://www.nydailynews.com/sports/football/jets/ny-joe-douglas-draft-scouts-evaluating-roster-grading-20200407-lo6l56dqjnesndljbhvs6wlani-story.html?outputType=amp I guess Carter had other intangibles that intrigued the Jets Some grading systems can’t measure HEART! 5 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Embrace the Suck Posted February 20, 2022 Share Posted February 20, 2022 Sounds good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post doitny Posted February 21, 2022 Popular Post Share Posted February 21, 2022 this confirms what most of us already knew. that JD was drafting to his HCs scheme. that would explain how bad the 2020 draft was. he gave Gase the players he wanted. now whatever leftovers there are like Mims and Perine can't get on the field. am im glad to see he doesn't put 1st rd labels on anyone. it looks like he isn't a disciple of the " not worthy " crowd. i am so sick and tired of hearing that word. JD is going to own whoever he picks it might as well get the guy he really wants and not the guy some say are " worthy " of such picks 11 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Beerfish Posted February 21, 2022 Popular Post Share Posted February 21, 2022 Douglas has to own the picks no matter who they were made for. Giving him a pass due to Gase is laughable. It's also why I say Fck the scheme, draft good players and it is up to the coaches figure it out. I just love looking at potential pro bowl quality players before the draft and then being told, sorry doesn't fit the scheme. 8 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post IntoTheGreen Posted February 21, 2022 Popular Post Share Posted February 21, 2022 21 minutes ago, Beerfish said: Douglas has to own the picks no matter who they were made for. Giving him a pass due to Gase is laughable. It's also why I say Fck the scheme, draft good players and it is up to the coaches figure it out. I just love looking at potential pro bowl quality players before the draft and then being told, sorry doesn't fit the scheme. You've been around long enough to see the results of picking the "best player" in the draft how many times now? It hasn't worked. While I agree to some extent that the talent is important...hence his inclination to draft high RAS, but wouldn't it be nice to have a well defined scheme that you can identify players for. There is a reason teams like Pitt, Bal, Pat's keep churning out good D into playoff runs. It starts with stability and scheme. 5 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post cincy jets fan12 Posted February 21, 2022 Popular Post Share Posted February 21, 2022 JD record - 6-28 whats the grading system? 3 1 4 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Spoot-Face Posted February 21, 2022 Popular Post Share Posted February 21, 2022 3 hours ago, 32EBoozer said: With the Combine 2 weeks away and the Mock Drafts starting to flow, I would remind everyone of how JD and his Scouting Dept set up their board... 3 hours ago, 32EBoozer said: ...Provided by the journalist formerly known as Manish Meta 1 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Big_Slick Posted February 21, 2022 Popular Post Share Posted February 21, 2022 39 minutes ago, doitny said: this confirms what most of us already knew. that JD was drafting to his HCs scheme. that would explain how bad the 2020 draft was. he gave Gase the players he wanted. now whatever leftovers there are like Mims and Perine can't get on the field. Nonsense. JD owns that draft. OT in the 1st round was a given and so was WR in the 2nd. JD picked terrible players. Did Gase insist that JD take Becton over Wirfs? Did Gase insist that JD take Mims? Did Gase want a safety with the 3rd round pick? Did Gase want a developmental QB with the 4th round? JD blew the 2020 draft all by himself and he better hope Zach plays up to the #2 OA pick this season or he'll be either gone or on the way out. 11 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beerfish Posted February 21, 2022 Share Posted February 21, 2022 40 minutes ago, IntoTheGreen said: You've been around long enough to see the results of picking the "best player" in the draft how many times now? It hasn't worked. While I agree to some extent that the talent is important...hence his inclination to draft high RAS, but wouldn't it be nice to have a well defined scheme that you can identify players for. There is a reason teams like Pitt, Bal, Pat's keep churning out good D into playoff runs. It starts with stability and scheme. It's not just best player in the draft, positional value goes along with that. The problem with the old 'stability' bit is it is totally chicken and the egg. If you do well you do not fire the coach thus you have stability. If you are garbage and the team looks terrible the coach gets fired and you have a whole new scheme. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post doitny Posted February 21, 2022 Popular Post Share Posted February 21, 2022 43 minutes ago, Beerfish said: Douglas has to own the picks no matter who they were made for. Giving him a pass due to Gase is laughable. It's also why I say Fck the scheme, draft good players and it is up to the coaches figure it out. I just love looking at potential pro bowl quality players before the draft and then being told, sorry doesn't fit the scheme. we will see about that. if JD has another good draft like in 2021 then i think you have to give him a pass. you can't screw the scheme. its better to have them fit it. look at Mims for example. he looked much better with Gase than Saleh. and he has had a hard time learning it. do you want to give Mims special plays just for him? then you have to do it for everyone. then you don't have a scheme. we now have a zone blocking scheme. remember how everyone struggled early on with it but got better as the season went on? Becton who is a mauler and not from a zone blocking background struggled in camp. might be the reason he got injured. he was doing something he wasn't comfortable with. remember Bill Parcells had his own guys. all the great coaches do. because they like their attitude and they fit their scheme. i get what your saying about drafting good players. the thought that there so good they can learn and be good at any scheme. but thats not always the case. picking a OL who never zone blocked to do it here. he might not be good at it. or a Edge or LB who came from a 3-4 defense to play in our 4-3. he might not like doing that. it might not be to his strong suit. and there goes your Pro Bowl quality player down the tubes. scheme fit matters 7 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larz Posted February 21, 2022 Share Posted February 21, 2022 51 minutes ago, cincy jets fan12 said: JD record - 6-28 whats the grading system? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doitny Posted February 21, 2022 Share Posted February 21, 2022 45 minutes ago, Big_Slick said: Nonsense. JD owns that draft. OT in the 1st round was a given and so was WR in the 2nd. JD picked terrible players. Did Gase insist that JD take Becton over Wirfs? Did Gase insist that JD take Mims? Did Gase want a safety with the 3rd round pick? Did Gase want a developmental QB with the 4th round? JD blew the 2020 draft all by himself and he better hope Zach plays up to the #2 OA pick this season or he'll be either gone or on the way out. like i said, if he does well in 2022 then its Gases fault in 2020. if would be some coincidence that JD had 2 good drafts with Saleh and none with Gase. it like that same old argument with Tanny. his drafts were much better with Mangini then with Rex. did Tanny forget to draft when Rex got here? and with Gase being friends and helping get JD the job im sure Gase got who he wanted. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
32EBoozer Posted February 21, 2022 Author Share Posted February 21, 2022 9 hours ago, doitny said: like i said, if he does well in 2022 then its Gases fault in 2020. if would be some coincidence that JD had 2 good drafts with Saleh and none with Gase. it like that same old argument with Tanny. his drafts were much better with Mangini then with Rex. did Tanny forget to draft when Rex got here? and with Gase being friends and helping get JD the job im sure Gase got who he wanted. I tend to agree with your theory on Gase. It is disappointing that JD would carry Gase’s water like that but remember when Gase walked out of the draft room on MacCagnan in protest of his handling of the 2019 draft? That and getting the job due to Gase May have had JD trying to give Gase the “coin toss” honor between players valued equally. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rangerous Posted February 21, 2022 Share Posted February 21, 2022 i see the 2020 draft as being a scatter shot. there were so many positions on the team that needed upgrading it was pretty difficult to concentrate on offense or defense. obviously trading back and picking up mims was a mistake and who knew clark was going to be injured so badly. as for the rest, becton can still be a real great pick and davis seems to be improving. hall is a keeper as is mann. morgan? the book on darnold was probably already known so picking a qb in the 4th round may not have been such a bad move. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevinc855 Posted February 21, 2022 Share Posted February 21, 2022 Welll that grading system certainly has mixed results doesn’t it? Hard to say JD is a master drafter. Much better at obtaining picks then picking the right players it seems to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevinc855 Posted February 21, 2022 Share Posted February 21, 2022 11 hours ago, doitny said: this confirms what most of us already knew. that JD was drafting to his HCs scheme. that would explain how bad the 2020 draft was. he gave Gase the players he wanted. now whatever leftovers there are like Mims and Perine can't get on the field. am im glad to see he doesn't put 1st rd labels on anyone. it looks like he isn't a disciple of the " not worthy " crowd. i am so sick and tired of hearing that word. JD is going to own whoever he picks it might as well get the guy he really wants and not the guy some say are " worthy " of such picks This is such a bad take. Did Adam Gase run into the draft room and beg JD to take Becton over Wirfs? Exactly JDs picks are JDs picks. Period 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jet Nut Posted February 21, 2022 Share Posted February 21, 2022 On 2/20/2022 at 8:15 PM, Beerfish said: Douglas has to own the picks no matter who they were made for. Giving him a pass due to Gase is laughable. It's also why I say Fck the scheme, draft good players and it is up to the coaches figure it out. I just love looking at potential pro bowl quality players before the draft and then being told, sorry doesn't fit the scheme. JD has to own those picks but the reality of the situation is having this CS change to a scheme for those players in one draft doesnt work that way. HCs are hired to come in specifically because of their schemes, thats why theyre hired and we're supposed to have him change his scheme for a handful of players that were drafted by that GM to fit a different scheme? Or worse by a different GM who's been dumped for failing? We really want the CS to deploy the Gase offense and the Williams D? I find it hard to believe during Saleh's interview he was asked about his vision for the team, his thoughts on both the O and D and he said he would bring back at the Gase schemes so that Perine and Mims would have a chance. 2 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jet Nut Posted February 21, 2022 Share Posted February 21, 2022 11 hours ago, Big_Slick said: Nonsense. JD owns that draft. OT in the 1st round was a given and so was WR in the 2nd. JD picked terrible players. Did Gase insist that JD take Becton over Wirfs? Did Gase insist that JD take Mims? Did Gase want a safety with the 3rd round pick? Did Gase want a developmental QB with the 4th round? JD blew the 2020 draft all by himself and he better hope Zach plays up to the #2 OA pick this season or he'll be either gone or on the way out. Do the best GMs miss? Whos the terrible player we picked in the first? Becton is now a terrible player? What rule did we break by taking a S in the 3rd? The one where we bitch about him if he doesnt pan out? How about a corner in the 5th? Is it OK to waste a pick on a Bryce Hall? Did Gase want a developmental QB in the 4th? How do you know he didnt? Because he failed and its a way to dog JD? 3 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big_Slick Posted February 21, 2022 Share Posted February 21, 2022 10 hours ago, doitny said: like i said, if he does well in 2022 then its Gases fault in 2020. if would be some coincidence that JD had 2 good drafts with Saleh and none with Gase. That's some unassailable logic right there and the jury is still out on the 2021 draft. Please respond to JD's 2020 draft picks and tell me which ones were 'picked' by Gase. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big_Slick Posted February 21, 2022 Share Posted February 21, 2022 7 minutes ago, Jet Nut said: Do the best GMs miss? Whos the terrible player we picked in the first? Becton is now a terrible player? What rule did we break by taking a S in the 3rd? The one where we bitch about him if he doesnt pan out? How about a corner in the 5th? Is it OK to waste a pick on a Bryce Hall? Did Gase want a developmental QB in the 4th? How do you know he didnt? Because he failed and its a way to dog JD? Context please. Discussion was if Gase affected JD's picks. And yes 2020 was a terrible draft. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Integrity28 Posted February 21, 2022 Share Posted February 21, 2022 JD grading system. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post slats Posted February 21, 2022 Popular Post Share Posted February 21, 2022 11 hours ago, Big_Slick said: Nonsense. JD owns that draft. OT in the 1st round was a given and so was WR in the 2nd. JD picked terrible players. Did Gase insist that JD take Becton over Wirfs? Did Gase insist that JD take Mims? Did Gase want a safety with the 3rd round pick? Did Gase want a developmental QB with the 4th round? JD blew the 2020 draft all by himself and he better hope Zach plays up to the #2 OA pick this season or he'll be either gone or on the way out. Gee, it’s almost like no one ever gets better at anything after the first time they do it. Joe Douglas was a rookie GM in 2020. Like all rookies, he was learning on the job. He swung for the fences with Becton over the more sure fire, but maybe lower ceiling, Wirfs, and right now that’s not looking so great. In the second, he traded down with a number of WRs on the board, and wound up with Mims. In his second draft, he did things much differently even as he drafted the same positions. He traded up for the safest OL in the first, and took the top WR on his board rather than recoup picks and trade down in the second. The results were better. Like, maybe, he learned something and improved as a result. Crazy, I know. If Zach takes a big step forward, nothing else will really matter, but he needs another solid draft this year. He’s certainly in position to significantly improve the team. I agree with @doitny, another solid draft partnered with Saleh, and you have to look at Gase as part of the problem in 2020. 5 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sammybighead Posted February 21, 2022 Share Posted February 21, 2022 Nobody will care about the 2020 draft if Zach is a top 10 QB. FACT. He’s literally all that matters, and if I’m JD, the only question I ask myself before drafting a player is “does he play offense?” 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jet Nut Posted February 21, 2022 Share Posted February 21, 2022 50 minutes ago, Big_Slick said: That's some unassailable logic right there and the jury is still out on the 2021 draft. Please respond to JD's 2020 draft picks and tell me which ones were 'picked' by Gase. The jury is out and it’s been called a good draft by pretty much every draft outlet and would turn into a great draft of Wilson works out Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jet Nut Posted February 21, 2022 Share Posted February 21, 2022 On 2/21/2022 at 8:35 AM, Big_Slick said: Context please. Discussion was if Gase affected JD's picks. And yes 2020 was a terrible draft. Of course he did, picks that fit a system. Pretty obvious given the switch in priorities with the last draft. Who said the 2020 draft was good or did you not catch the line that every GM has their down draft Patience after his first ever NFL draft as a GM. Give the guy a break 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevinc855 Posted February 21, 2022 Share Posted February 21, 2022 13 minutes ago, Sammybighead said: Nobody will care about the 2020 draft if Zach is a top 10 QB. FACT. He’s literally all that matters, and if I’m JD, the only question I ask myself before drafting a player is “does he play offense?” Ageee with this take 2020 disaster wiped away if Zach is good. 2020 draft and his miss on QB is under HUGE scrutiny if Zach busts out If I’m him im getting weapons for Zach. He could always use Ulbrich as a scapegoat should the D stink again. That’s the cold reality of front office nfl thinking 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
section314 Posted February 21, 2022 Share Posted February 21, 2022 1 hour ago, Jet Nut said: Do the best GMs miss? Whos the terrible player we picked in the first? Becton is now a terrible player? What rule did we break by taking a S in the 3rd? The one where we bitch about him if he doesnt pan out? How about a corner in the 5th? Is it OK to waste a pick on a Bryce Hall? Did Gase want a developmental QB in the 4th? How do you know he didnt? Because he failed and its a way to dog JD? Great post. For the record, JD was the 3rd GM to pass on Wirfs. Becton and Wirfs don't play the same position. If they move Becton to Rt, or Tampa has the balls to move Wirfs to LT, then we can really compare them. If any GM inherited a QB room with Sam Darnold and Mike White, could you blame him for taking a shot on a guy in the 4th Rd? I'll say it again, Morgan will have a much better NFL career than White will when all is said and done. This crap is just so old. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FidelioJet Posted February 21, 2022 Share Posted February 21, 2022 35 minutes ago, Sammybighead said: Nobody will care about the 2020 draft if Zach is a top 10 QB. FACT. He’s literally all that matters, and if I’m JD, the only question I ask myself before drafting a player is “does he play offense?” Yes, and I'm sure JD understands this. ZW is pretty much the only thing that matters. Give him every opportunity to become a top tier QB and and if he does - JD will have 15 years to build a defense. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IntoTheGreen Posted February 21, 2022 Share Posted February 21, 2022 23 minutes ago, kevinc855 said: Ageee with this take 2020 disaster wiped away if Zach is good. 2020 draft and his miss on QB is under HUGE scrutiny if Zach busts out If I’m him im getting weapons for Zach. He could always use Ulbrich as a scapegoat should the D stink again. That’s the cold reality of front office nfl thinking To some extent. If this next draft is just ok, but Zach seems to take the next step JD is safe. If JD has a great draft, the team improves, but Zach stinks then they are in position to add a vet qb for a run as the new NFL model. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bleedin Green Posted February 21, 2022 Share Posted February 21, 2022 There is nothing more constant around these parts than the endlessly ridiculous narratives that are entirely dependent on the NFL GM being the most completely useless and meaningless job in all of the world. They apparently never actually do a single relevant thing themselves, considering it must always be the coach deserving all of the credit or blame, which mysteriously even shifts from one year to the next, depending on how it fits the revised storyline. Less than a year ago many were trying to carry JD on their shoulders for the very same decisions he now supposedly is entirely blameless for when it doesn't work out. Certainly convenient. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doitny Posted February 21, 2022 Share Posted February 21, 2022 3 hours ago, 32EBoozer said: I tend to agree with your theory on Gase. It is disappointing that JD would carry Gase’s water like that but remember when Gase walked out of the draft room on MacCagnan in protest of his handling of the 2019 draft? That and getting the job due to Gase May have had JD trying to give Gase the “coin toss” honor between players valued equally. @kevinc855 @Big_Slick this is it. Gase got JD the job. you got to believe he had a big influence in the picks. JD would have to be a big scumbag if he told his friend who hired him that he cant have the player he wanted. in the article it said that Gase would say he wants a player who could do A ,B and C. and JD would say well heres a player who can do that or give him a list of a few who could. then like Boozer said i believe Gase won the " coin toss " and i believe that happens with every HC and GM. the HC tell the GM what he wants from a player so he can fit his scheme and the GM produces a list of guys that do. then as the article says everyone has a say in the pick. the GM has final say but with Gase hiring JD i think Gase got who he wanted. JD hired Saleh so i think Saleh still has as much say as Gase, but JD would overrule him if there was a disagreement. you got to believe if Saleh was here in 2020 that the draft would look different. Becton was not a good zone blocker. i remember reading how Bectons strong suit was blocking forward. zone blocking has a lot of sliding. maybe im explaining that wrong. maybe someone can explain zone blocking better. so i 100% believe Becton is not Salehs pick. neither is Mims. im not given up on Becton. its hard when hes missed the whole season but i dont think from what i read he is best suited for zone blocking. Perine doesnt fit Salehs offense so he would not have been picked. i dont know much about Clark but if he was picked to block in Gases offense then he wouldn't be picked by Saleh. judging how Saleh likes certain type of safeties Ashton Davis probably doesnt get picked either. Morgan? Gase had Flacco as a backup and had no faith is White who was on the practice squad. Saleh made White the backup. im pretty sure Saleh doesnt pick Morgan. he had enough faith in White. Zuniga? Gase ran a 3-4 and Saleh a 4-3. im not sure if that makes a difference. 2 different HCs with 2 different schemes and what they want in a player. you can bet 2020 draft is alot different if Saleh was here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maury77 Posted February 21, 2022 Share Posted February 21, 2022 I think some of you give way too much credit to Douglas for having a good plan (which he does) when he has been poor at executing said plan. It’s great to build the lines, make good trades, etc., but if you don’t pick good players or sign good free agents, the plan doesn’t matter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chijet Posted February 21, 2022 Share Posted February 21, 2022 One thought I had on the difference between the 2020 draft with Gase and the 2021 draft with Saleh is that it could simply be that Saleh has done a much better job than Gase articulating and being clear and concise with Douglas and his team on their exact scheme and the types of players, their attributes and skills necessary for each player/position within his scheme to be successful. Douglas and his team may have been able to approach scouting last draft with much greater clarity and focus. Also as with any job, experience and learning from your mistakes (2020 draft) can also play a role as well. Let's hope the 2021 draft is more of what we should expect moving forward from Douglas. I'm keeping faith. There is a different feel to this regime than in the past. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maury77 Posted February 21, 2022 Share Posted February 21, 2022 1 minute ago, doitny said: @kevinc855 @Big_Slick this is it. Gase got JD the job. you got to believe he had a big influence in the picks. JD would have to be a big scumbag if he told his friend who hired him that he cant have the player he wanted. in the article it said that Gase would say he wants a player who could do A ,B and C. and JD would say well heres a player who can do that or give him a list of a few who could. then like Boozer said i believe Gase won the " coin toss " and i believe that happens with every HC and GM. the HC tell the GM what he wants from a player so he can fit his scheme and the GM produces a list of guys that do. then as the article says everyone has a say in the pick. the GM has final say but with Gase hiring JD i think Gase got who he wanted. JD hired Saleh so i think Saleh still has as much say as Gase, but JD would overrule him if there was a disagreement. you got to believe if Saleh was here in 2020 that the draft would look different. Becton was not a good zone blocker. i remember reading how Bectons strong suit was blocking forward. zone blocking has a lot of sliding. maybe im explaining that wrong. maybe someone can explain zone blocking better. so i 100% believe Becton is not Salehs pick. neither is Mims. im not given up on Becton. its hard when hes missed the whole season but i dont think from what i read he is best suited for zone blocking. Perine doesnt fit Salehs offense so he would not have been picked. i dont know much about Clark but if he was picked to block in Gases offense then he wouldn't be picked by Saleh. judging how Saleh likes certain type of safeties Ashton Davis probably doesnt get picked either. Morgan? Gase had Flacco as a backup and had no faith is White who was on the practice squad. Saleh made White the backup. im pretty sure Saleh doesnt pick Morgan. he had enough faith in White. Zuniga? Gase ran a 3-4 and Saleh a 4-3. im not sure if that makes a difference. 2 different HCs with 2 different schemes and what they want in a player. you can bet 2020 draft is alot different if Saleh was here. How is it a good use of resources to completely trash an entire draft class after one season because the new staff has a different scheme in mind? Your staff has a responsibility to win games with what they have, they shouldn’t get the luxury of trashing a season and a draft class because of their scheme. If it was, say, Sean Payton that came in and wanted to do that, then fine, at least he has a record of success. Saleh and his staff are all rookies that have to earn the benefit of a doubt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JetsFanatic Posted February 21, 2022 Share Posted February 21, 2022 15 hours ago, cincy jets fan12 said: JD record - 6-28 whats the grading system? He inherited such great talent. You do realize he is building a team from scratch since only one draft pick is on the team from the 2013-19 draft. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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