OT: Juwan Howard Strikes Joe Krabbenhoft After Michigan-Wisconsin Game

[TuscanyTile2]

1 minute ago, RutgersJetFan said:

His first response is to grab the arm that's grabbing him and firmly stating not to touch him. So yes, that's absolutely a self defense response. 

You can't possibly be this obtuse. 

Haha, you're sticking with this argument?  I love it!

[Sperm Edwards]

13 minutes ago, RutgersJetFan said:

The moment another person lays a finger on you it's a self defense situation. Fundamental rule and universally agreed on as well. Period end of story. 

#mancode

Also...yep. 

[TuscanyTile2]

3 minutes ago, RutgersJetFan said:

His first response is to grab the arm that's grabbing him and firmly stating not to touch him. So yes, that's absolutely a self defense response. 

You can't possibly be this obtuse. 

 

1 minute ago, Sperm Edwards said:

#mancode

Also...yep. 

In your opinion (asking both of you), did Juwan Howard act inappropriately at all during that whole thing?  Should he be punished in any way?  Should the Wisconsin HC be punished?

[TuscanyTile2]

Juwan Howard, a former NBA player, who is 6'9", 49 years old and probably around 250lbs (but still athletic/intimidating-looking) acted in self-defense against a 51 year old Greg Gard, who is plump, not athletic/intimidating-looking and is much shorter.  Plus he wasn't a stranger or anything like that (where potentially a weapon could be involved).  Yet the argument is that Howard was acting in self-defense over Gard putting his hand on Howard's arm?

Are you guys laughing while you're posting this stuff?

[RutgersJetFan]

13 minutes ago, TuscanyTile2 said:

 

In your opinion (asking both of you), did Juwan Howard act inappropriately at all during that whole thing?  Should he be punished in any way?  Should the Wisconsin HC be punished?

The guy grew up on the South Side of Chicago and has probably been sucker punched more times than you can fathom. I'm not going to sit and judge someone because they were unwilling to wait to see what further actions a physical aggressor might take. I have no idea what should be done with respect for either guy.

[Matt39]

lol, we live in the best times. The elbow toucher is aCtuAlly the aggressor.  The incident overall is a who cares, but the apparent push to change what actually happened is hysterical. "He's from Chicago!" Who gives a sh*t?

[Rhg1084]

People calling for him to be fired are so soft lol. Good thing Bobby Knight was around in this era. This generation is charmin soft 

[RutgersJetFan]

5 minutes ago, Rhg1084 said:

People calling for him to be fired are so soft lol. Good thing Bobby Knight was around in this era. This generation is charmin soft 

A fight! How outrageous!

[Sperm Edwards]

26 minutes ago, TuscanyTile2 said:

 

In your opinion (asking both of you), did Juwan Howard act inappropriately at all during that whole thing?  Should he be punished in any way?  Should the Wisconsin HC be punished?

In all honesty, I couldn't totally tell what happened once the area got really crowded. I could plainly see the first guy (is that Wisconsin's HC?) picking a fight with Howard as he wanted to leave the floor; he blocked Howard's exit effort with his body; he put hands on him; all in a setting where emotions - and testosterone - run high. It's not like he merely sent Howard a strongly worded text message & then Howard jumped in his car & went hunting for him. 

When I was just a little Sperm, Dad used to say don't start start a fight with someone unless you're prepared to have the other guy finish it. Mom's way of putting it was tamer, to keep my hands to myself (which I then practiced over & over through puberty, until I got really good at it lol). 

As far as what should happen? Not completely seeing what fully happened, I've no idea, but honestly it doesn't register too highly on things that matter to me anyway. Plenty of things in this world make my blood boil; this isn't one of them. A couple of dicks acting like dicks, so big meh. I haven't the pearls to clutch for either one of them.

JMO

[Sperm Edwards]

22 minutes ago, Matt39 said:

lol, we live in the best times. The elbow toucher is aCtuAlly the aggressor.  The incident overall is a who cares, but the apparent push to change what actually happened is hysterical. "He's from Chicago!" Who gives a sh*t?

Whoa, he's from Chicago? 

Now this changes everything. 

Also which one is from Chicago? It matters.  

[Matt39]

7 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

In all honesty, I couldn't totally tell what happened once the area got really crowded. I could plainly see the first guy (is that Wisconsin's HC?) picking a fight with Howard as he wanted to leave the floor; he blocked Howard's exit effort with his body; he put hands on him; all in a setting where emotions - and testosterone - run high. It's not like he merely sent Howard a strongly worded text message & then Howard jumped in his car & went hunting for him. 

When I was just a little Sperm, Dad used to say don't start start a fight with someone unless you're prepared to have the other guy finish it. Mom's way of putting it was tamer, to keep my hands to myself (which I then practiced over & over through puberty, until I got really good at it lol). 

As far as what should happen? Not completely seeing what fully happened, I've no idea, but honestly it doesn't register too highly on things that matter to me anyway. Plenty of things in this world make my blood boil; this isn't one of them. A couple of dicks acting like dicks, so big meh. I haven't the pearls to clutch for either one of them.

JMO

A coach trying to get another coach's attention in a post game handshake line is common. Touching an elbow is not an initiator of any sort of physical fight. Howard was being a baby about the whole situation and then reacted poorly. He'll get suspended and we move on. If it's still an issue then Wisconsin or other teams can just refuse to shake hands moving forward.

[RutgersJetFan]

5 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

In all honesty, I couldn't totally tell what happened once the area got really crowded. I could plainly see the first guy (is that Wisconsin's HC?) picking a fight with Howard as he wanted to leave the floor; he blocked Howard's exit effort with his body; he put hands on him; all in a setting where emotions - and testosterone - run high. It's not like he merely sent Howard a strongly worded text message & then Howard jumped in his car & went hunting for him. 

When I was just a little Sperm, Dad used to say don't start start a fight with someone unless you're prepared to have the other guy finish it. Mom's way of putting it was tamer, to keep my hands to myself (which I then practiced over & over through puberty, until I got really good at it lol). 

I think we're just living in a time and place where a good chunk of the population thinks they can say/do whatever they want because they're not even aware they are putting someone else in a defensive position (hence my Chicago comment). For example in this thread you've got a dude who literally called me bigoted names once upon a time from behind the safety of his keyboard boggled that the guy grabbing Howard could be putting another person in that position. Funny how that works. 

[The Crusher]

1 hour ago, TuscanyTile2 said:

Juwan Howard was very threatened by Wisconsin's coach holding his arm?  LMAO!

JH was "lucky" he escaped from such a dangerous situation!

EDIT: Also, can you believe that the Wisconsin coach (who had his bench on the floor) called timeout instead of letting Michigan just steal the ball or get it back on a 10 second violation?!  How "rude" was it of Wisconsin to not give up even though it was clear Michigan wasn't giving up!

Nobody says threatened  if I’m already  pissed  off when I lose ayone grabbing my arm is gonna piss me off more, 

[The Crusher]

40 minutes ago, RutgersJetFan said:

The guy grew up on the South Side of Chicago and has probably been sucker punched more times than you can fathom. I'm not going to sit and judge someone because they were unwilling to wait to see what further actions a physical aggressor might take. I have no idea what should be done with respect for either guy.

Steel cage death match with resin dipped wraps over  broken glass. 

[RutgersJetFan]

3 minutes ago, The Crusher said:

Steel cage death match with resin dipped wraps over  broken glass. 

I only fight one way

 

[thshadow]

Howard didn't de-escalate the situation, or even respond in kind.  He escalated.

"Be the bigger man" is what every coach should be.

Or if you're the littler man, grab Alonzo Mourning's leg and hold on for dear life like Van Gundy.

[Sperm Edwards]

20 minutes ago, RutgersJetFan said:

I think we're just living in a time and place where a good chunk of the population thinks they can say/do whatever they want because they're not even aware they are putting someone else in a defensive position (hence my Chicago comment). For example in this thread you've got a dude who literally called me bigoted names once upon a time from behind the safety of his keyboard boggled that the guy grabbing Howard could be putting another person in that position. Funny how that works. 

A-ha!! So you like bigots and tough-guy jerks from Chicago?

I should have known.

Reported.

[RutgersJetFan]

Just now, Sperm Edwards said:

A-ha!! So you like bigots and tough-guy jerks from Chicago?

I should have known.

Reported.

No.

Maybe.

That's none of your business.

[TuscanyTile2]

1 hour ago, RutgersJetFan said:

The guy grew up on the South Side of Chicago and has probably been sucker punched more times than you can fathom. I'm not going to sit and judge someone because they were unwilling to wait to see what further actions a physical aggressor might take. I have no idea what should be done with respect for either guy.

Good point!  I'm sure Juwan Howard was worried that the Wisconsin HC was going to sucker-punch him. /s

If he's really that "on edge" then he shouldn't even be a HC in the first place.

[TuscanyTile2]

1 hour ago, The Crusher said:

Nobody says threatened  if I’m already  pissed  off when I lose ayone grabbing my arm is gonna piss me off more, 

So that excuses Howard from the hitting the other team's assistant coach and sparking a potential brawl?!  And Howard is the HC.  You can't blame his players for following his lead. And this is not the first such incident (and the other one happened only 1 year prior).  All signs point to he deserves to be fired immediately.

[JustInFudge]

2 hours ago, TuscanyTile2 said:

Juwan Howard was very threatened by Wisconsin's coach holding his arm?  LMAO!

JH was "lucky" he escaped from such a dangerous situation!

EDIT: Also, can you believe that the Wisconsin coach (who had his bench on the floor) called timeout instead of letting Michigan just steal the ball or get it back on a 10 second violation?!  How "rude" was it of Wisconsin to not give up even though it was clear Michigan wasn't giving up!

Nothing you've said here has anything to do with the fact, that the Wisconsin coach started this whole fiasco by unnecessarily and aggressively yanking Howard's arm.  Both coaches dropped the ball here, but one dude instigated it and it wasnt Juwan Howard.  That's an obvious fact and all this other stuff you're doing is just silly nonsense. 

 

[playtowinthegame]

Fire Juwan Howard

A coach who cannot control his temper should not be allowed to lead a team of young men. He is a bad example for his players.

And his outbursts are a bad look for the University of Michigan.

But there's a clear line between passion and violence. And in the real world, men who physically attack other men in the workplace find themselves out of a job.

Violence should be no more acceptable for a college coach than it would be for a college professor. Nor should athletes or coaches get a pass for physical assaults that would get them arrested in any other venue. 

Howard learned nothing from last year's embarrassing spectacle. And won't from this one, if he's again allowed to blow it off.

UM should seriously consider whether it wants such a volatile coach in charge of its basketball team. 

[JustInFudge]

2 hours ago, southparkcpa said:

I remember seeing a lot of press for that... it wasn't kool. He grabbed his own player NOT the other team. BIG difference.  But yes, your own narrative. 

 

The NFL fined Buccaneers coach Bruce Arians $50,000 on Wednesday for hitting his own player on the helmet during Tampa's 31-15 victory over the Eagles. Arians swatted Tampa Bay safety Andrew Adams following a Philadelphia muffed punt as the coach attempted to prevent an personal-foul penalty

 

 

Wait what?  So it's fine to assault your own player?  lmfao.  No.  He ran onto the field of play and assaulted his player.  He disrupted actual play, this wasnt after the game.  He was not suspended or fired, some idiots said it was smart and worth the fine because a flag would have been brutal in that situation. 

Talk about your own narrative, lol 

[Matt39]

2 minutes ago, JiFapono said:

Nothing you've said here has anything to do with the fact, that the Wisconsin coach started this whole fiasco by unnecessarily and aggressively yanking Howard's arm.  Both coaches dropped the ball here, but one dude instigated it and it wasnt Juwan Howard.  That's an obvious fact and all this other stuff you're doing is just silly nonsense. 

 

I've watched this a few times and nothing about that elbow touch was aggressive. It's common practice in post game hand shake lines when you want to say something and the Wiscy coach was likely trying to explain why he called time out after Howard said "I'll remember that." He wigged out over an elbow touch. 

[UntouchableCrew]

Both head coaches acted like unprofessional clowns and will/should be suspended.

These guys are being paid seven figures -- they're supposed to be the adults in the room, coaching student athletes and representing their universities.

[Pac]

All I know is fat, bald, white guys are usually the cause of most problems..  

Can I get an amen, @The Crusher

[JustInFudge]

12 minutes ago, Matt39 said:

I've watched this a few times and nothing about that elbow touch was aggressive. It's common practice in post game hand shake lines when you want to say something and the Wiscy coach was likely trying to explain why he called time out after Howard said "I'll remember that." He wigged out over an elbow touch. 

Weird.  I legit have no idea how you interrupted this interaction this way.   Dude wasnt going in for a handshake, that's not what a handshake looks like.  He grabbed his elbow aggressively and yoked it to take control of the situation.  Howard said dont touch me, the guy stood his ground and continued to touch him.  lol   Like, it's clear as day but whatever, I can respectfully agree to disagree.

Howard was an idiot for doing whatever that punch/choke/grab thing was, but it never happens if dude doesnt touch him.  Seems pretty simple and obvious to me.  Interesting that there are so many different interpretations. 

In general, it's much to do about nothing IMO.  Suspend them and move on.

[Hal N of Provo]

 

its age restricted on YouTube now.  
 

Wisconsin assistant was a chump and started it.   If Howard doesn’t throw you are looking at more punishment for the Wisconsin guy IMO.  
 

If I’m king of the universe (I’m hopeful this happens tomorrow) 2 game suspension for Howard 1 game for the Wisconsin bozo and we all move on with life.  

[TuscanyTile2]

1 minute ago, JiFapono said:

Nothing you've said here has anything to do with the fact, that the Wisconsin coach started this whole fiasco by unnecessarily and aggressively yanking Howard's arm.  Both coaches dropped the ball here, but one dude instigated it and it wasnt Juwan Howard.  That's an obvious fact and all this other stuff you're doing is just silly nonsense. 

No reasonable person would look at the Wisconsin HC's actions as threatening.  Juwan Howard is a HC.  He needs to be more mature to represent the profession in a good light plus to set a good example for his players.  Plus he could've ignited a brawl and someone could've gotten badly hurt (or worse).

He was wrong in the first place to even be upset at Wisconsin's HC ("how dare they call timeout despite the fact that we clearly haven't given up").  But I'll admit that he's allowed to be a huge baby if he wants to be.  No issue there.

The Wisconsin HC did put his hand on Howard's arm but, again, it was clearly not in a threatening way.  And nobody (including both you and Juwan Howard) thought the Wisconsin HC was going to physically attack him.  Keep in mind also that Howard said something like "I'm not going to forget that" before they even had a chance to shake hands.  That was what made the Wisconsin HC put his arm on Howard's shoulder (which he said he did because he wanted to explain things.  Seems perfectly reasonable).

Also, let's not forget that Howard didn't hit the Wisconsin HC.  He hit an assistant coach.  So if he really was upset about the arm thing, why would he hit someone else?

This is his 2nd anger management issue in a year.  He's already been given his 2nd chance.  He doesn't deserve a 3rd chance.  What happens if he gets another chance and this happens again but someone gets seriously injured?   At some point he needs to be held responsible for his actions.  He was at fault and deserves to be fired immediately. 

[playtowinthegame]

18 minutes ago, UntouchableCrew said:

Both head coaches acted like unprofessional clowns and will/should be suspended.

These guys are being paid seven figures -- they're supposed to be the adults in the room, coaching student athletes and representing their universities.

I won't be the least surprised  if Howard is never coaching collegiate athletes again after this and Greg Gard doesn't even get a single game suspension.

[Matt39]

2 minutes ago, JiFapono said:

Weird.  I legit have no idea how you interrupted this interaction this way.   Dude wasnt going in for a handshake, that's not what a handshake looks like.  He grabbed his elbow aggressively and yoked it to take control of the situation.  Howard said dont touch me, the guy stood his ground and continued to touch him.  lol   Like, it's clear as day but whatever, I can respectfully agree to disagree.

Howard was an idiot for doing whatever that punch/choke/grab thing was, but it never happens if dude doesnt touch him.  Seems pretty simple and obvious to me.  Interesting that there are so many different interpretations. 

In general, it's much to do about nothing IMO.  Suspend them and move on.

I saw it differently. Coaches routinely grab elbows in the line. There's video of the Wisconsin coach doing it previously with Howard. Slow sports time of year so I guess this is amplified. As far as the timeout goes it was justified as Michigan was playing full court man on walk-ons who started crapping themselves and they needed a reset on the 10 second clock. 

[Hal N of Provo]

4 minutes ago, TuscanyTile2 said:

No reasonable person would look at the Wisconsin HC's actions as threatening.  Juwan Howard is a HC.  He needs to be more mature to represent the profession in a good light plus to set a good example for his players.  Plus he could've ignited a brawl and someone could've gotten badly hurt (or worse).

He was wrong in the first place to even be upset at Wisconsin's HC ("how dare they call timeout despite the fact that we clearly haven't given up").  But I'll admit that he's allowed to be a huge baby if he wants to be.  No issue there.

The Wisconsin HC did put his hand on Howard's arm but, again, it was clearly not in a threatening way.  And nobody (including both you and Juwan Howard) thought the Wisconsin HC was going to physically attack him.  Keep in mind also that Howard said something like "I'm not going to forget that" before they even had a chance to shake hands.  That was what made the Wisconsin HC put his arm on Howard's shoulder (which he said he did because he wanted to explain things.  Seems perfectly reasonable).

Also, let's not forget that Howard didn't hit the Wisconsin HC.  He hit an assistant coach.  So if he really was upset about the arm thing, why would he hit someone else?

This is his 2nd anger management issue in a year.  He's already been given his 2nd chance.  He doesn't deserve a 3rd chance.  What happens if he gets another chance and this happens again but someone gets seriously injured?   At some point he needs to be held responsible for his actions.  He was at fault and deserves to be fired immediately. 

After an intense game if your dumb enough to get in someone’s face you deserve what you get.   The hand shake is not the time for that.  It’s the opposite.  

[TuscanyTile2]

1 minute ago, playtowinthegame said:

I won't be the least surprised Howard is never coaching collegiate athletes again after this and Greg Gard doesn't even get a single game suspension.

That's exactly what should happen (though if Howard shows real contrition over time, I wouldn't have an issue if he coached again) but I highly doubt it will be what happens.  My guess is Howard gets suspended a few games (worst case, the rest of the year) and Gard gets a reprimand with no suspension. 

[TuscanyTile2]

Just now, Hal N of Provo said:

After an intense game if your dumb enough to get in someone’s face you deserve what you get.   The hand shake is not the time for that.  It’s the opposite.  

These are college basketball head coaches.  It's perfectly reasonable to expect that they'll be able to control their temper.  Juwan Howard was WAY out of line.  And this was not the first time either.  He absolutely deserves to be fired.

[JustInFudge]

1 minute ago, TuscanyTile2 said:

No reasonable person would look at the Wisconsin HC's actions as threatening.  Juwan Howard is a HC.  He needs to be more mature to represent the profession in a good light plus to set a good example for his players.  Plus he could've ignited a brawl and someone could've gotten badly hurt (or worse).

He was wrong in the first place to even be upset at Wisconsin's HC ("how dare they call timeout despite the fact that we clearly haven't given up").  But I'll admit that he's allowed to be a huge baby if he wants to be.  No issue there.

The Wisconsin HC did put his hand on Howard's arm but, again, it was clearly not in a threatening way.  And nobody (including both you and Juwan Howard) thought the Wisconsin HC was going to physically attack him.  Keep in mind also that Howard said something like "I'm not going to forget that" before they even had a chance to shake hands.  That was what made the Wisconsin HC put his arm on Howard's shoulder (which he said he did because he wanted to explain things.  Seems perfectly reasonable).

Also, let's not forget that Howard didn't hit the Wisconsin HC.  He hit an assistant coach.  So if he really was upset about the arm thing, why would he hit someone else?

This is his 2nd anger management issue in a year.  He's already been given his 2nd chance.  He doesn't deserve a 3rd chance.  What happens if he gets another chance and this happens again but someone gets seriously injured?   At some point he needs to be held responsible for his actions.  He was at fault and deserves to be fired immediately. 

You're not the one that gets to say how Juwan Howard was supposed to feel.  That's for Juwan Howard to determine in that moment.  Nobody is excusing Howard for his actions.  He was out of line with his response.  The fact is this started with physical contact from the Wisc. coach and any reasonable person would understand that none of this happens if he didn't initiate contact. 

They both should be suspended and move on.