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Edit: JC Jackson will hit the open market


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4 hours ago, varjet said:

I believe when the Pats franchised Thuney they did it on the last day.  Expect more of the same here.  

I am not saying they are not, but they really cannot afford him.  Tagging him puts them 8-9 million over the cap.  There are some ways to make it work, but that will open other holes and limit them fixing other needs.  

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I feel like Free Agent CB's are risky.  The success of that position is so predicated on scheme, surrounding and situation that it's really hard to predict how they're going to translate on a different team.  Obviously, guys like Gilmore and Ramsey are just next level and can play anywhere but is there an example of a FA CB having a significant impact on a new team?  Seems like 8 out of 10 times, the team who signs them gets burned.   Could be wrong and I'm missing examples but that's how it feels based off the top of my head big name CB signings. 

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1 minute ago, sec101row23 said:


Between a weak draft class and an exceptionally poor FA group, this isn’t a great time to have so much draft capital and cap space.  

Seriously, it's so Jetsy. I wouldnt mind JD being a little liberal with picks for proven vets, which is typically not my ideal approach.  The offense really isnt that far off at all.  They can move the ball and score with proper QB'ing, they're really just a reliable TE and WR away from being potent.  I also think the value in building around Zach cant be measured so trading for the sure thing who doesnt need ramp time might actually be a better approach for a crucial second season.

To a lesser extent, I could be good with using pick for pass rusher and CB but I'd much rather address D in the draft.  

 

 

 

 

 

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4 minutes ago, JiFapono said:

Seriously, it's so Jetsy. I wouldnt mind JD being a little liberal with picks for proven vets, which is typically not my ideal approach.  The offense really isnt that far off at all.  They can move the ball and score with proper QB'ing, they're really just a reliable TE and WR away from being potent.  I also think the value in building around Zach cant be measured so trading for the sure thing who doesnt need ramp time might actually be a better approach for a crucial second season.

To a lesser extent, I could be good with using pick for pass rusher and CB but I'd much rather address D in the draft.  

 

 

 

 

 

Agreed.  I would sign Moses and LDT so that the line is solid going into the draft and I am not forced into having to fill O-line holes in the draft.  I wouldn’t mind trading draft capital for vet WR or TE’s.  

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7 minutes ago, sec101row23 said:

Agreed.  I would sign Moses and LDT so that the line is solid going into the draft and I am not forced into having to fill O-line holes in the draft.  I wouldn’t mind trading draft capital for vet WR or TE’s.  

100% on bringing the entire OL back.  I dont really hate the FA TE market, depending on who actually make it to FA, it could be fruitful.  I'd sign one of them and look to draft a TE as well.  I'd look to trade a pick for a proven vet WR.  I'd sign a veteran RB.  And then I'd go heavy on Defense in the draft.

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22 minutes ago, JiFapono said:

Seriously, it's so Jetsy. I wouldnt mind JD being a little liberal with picks for proven vets, which is typically not my ideal approach.  The offense really isnt that far off at all.  They can move the ball and score with proper QB'ing, they're really just a reliable TE and WR away from being potent.  I also think the value in building around Zach cant be measured so trading for the sure thing who doesnt need ramp time might actually be a better approach for a crucial second season.

To a lesser extent, I could be good with using pick for pass rusher and CB but I'd much rather address D in the draft.  

I think this is very much on the table. And if JD does trade a pick for a veteran player, I’d expect it to be for a #1 type WR. I’d expect his thinking to be along these lines, building around Zach being the first priority. He’ll also want to maximize the draft and, this year, that looks like taking a couple defensive players with premium picks. 

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13 hours ago, SR24 said:

Yes that’s exactly what I’m saying here. Rumors will come out that we’re “interested” yet he signs elsewhere. Conklin’s camp did the same thing to us a few years back 

It only matter if we are actually trying to sign him. We won't  be doing that. I can see someone like Eli Apple  or Xavier  Rhodes, not a guy ranked this high. We won't  be talking to his agent. 

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38 minutes ago, sec101row23 said:


Between a weak draft class and an exceptionally poor FA group, this isn’t a great time to have so much draft capital and cap space.  

This is in comparison to the free agent class of 2021 that brought us Kenny Golloday, Will Fuller, Corey Davis, Juju, Sammy Watkins and QBs like ryan fitzpatrick who all were either terrible or hurt? 

The reality is always that free agent classes are rarely all that good because elite players are either tagged or are already signed up long term. This year is no different especially since Chris Godwin/Odell tore their ACLs. 

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18 minutes ago, JiFapono said:

100% on bringing the entire OL back.  I dont really hate the FA TE market, depending on who actually make it to FA, it could be fruitful.  I'd sign one of them and look to draft a TE as well.  I'd look to trade a pick for a proven vet WR.  I'd sign a veteran RB.  And then I'd go heavy on Defense in the draft.

Agreed. Tight end is one of the rare positions where rookies rarely make an impact (especially in the passing game unless you are Kyle Pitts and he only had 1 TD despite 1k yards). So the likes of Gesicki (doubt JD has interest in him) Schultz (if available), or guys  like Ertz/Njoku could step in and make an impact relative to the likes we had last year. 

 

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A couple of things here:

1- Why would the Jets go after a high priced CB? I just don;t get the rationale. Jet fans on here seem to all be convinced that Jet Brass won't draft a CB high because 'the system' and because 'bigger needs elsewhere', yet here we are talking about giving signing a FA CB to a massive contract? My whole argument against this has been that the Jets have young promising CBs who they are developing. At least 3 but maybe 4 or 5 of them (Hall, Echols, Carter, Guidry, Pinnock- yes I know they are trying him at Safety but he's a CB). So why would they sign a high priced FA CB? 

2- Seems like former Patriot players going back to the Pats was something that would happen when Brady was with NE and the Pats were really good. Maybe I'm wrong on this one. But seems to me like that was just a move to go back to familiar team and try to win ring. Have we actually seen this kind of thing happen recently with any high-profile players? Should this actually be some kind of a legitimate concern?   

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7 minutes ago, PepPep said:

A couple of things here:

1- Why would the Jets go after a high priced CB? I just don;t get the rationale. Jet fans on here seem to all be convinced that Jet Brass won't draft a CB high because 'the system' and because 'bigger needs elsewhere', yet here we are talking about giving signing a FA CB to a massive contract? My whole argument against this has been that the Jets have young promising CBs who they are developing. At least 3 but maybe 4 or 5 of them (Hall, Echols, Carter, Guidry, Pinnock- yes I know they are trying him at Safety but he's a CB). So why would they sign a high priced FA CB? 

2- Seems like former Patriot players going back to the Pats was something that would happen when Brady was with NE and the Pats were really good. Maybe I'm wrong on this one. But seems to me like that was just a move to go back to familiar team and try to win ring. Have we actually seen this kind of thing happen recently with any high-profile players? Should this actually be some kind of a legitimate concern?   

The Jets gave up the most passing yards in the league last year. They need to upgrade the secondary somehow whether it’s a free agent corner or using a high pick on a corner. So while it’s fun to say “Jets don’t value corners” the reality is they were getting toasted on a weekly basis giving up tons of yards and TDs.

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The system Saleh is running does not prioritize coverage corners. You don't need to spend a lot to find zone guys. It's really hard for us as fans to switch our thinking from 3-4 to 4-3 but when the pressure comes from the defensive line without blitzes, you don't need fancy corners to live on the island. 

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This guy is less good than he seems.  He is not unlike Asante Samuel in that he is a ballhawking cb who gambles a lot, but doesn't necessarily play perfect fundamentals and will give up some big plays as a result..  He has also been greatly helped by the Patriots very strong secondary play as a unit.

Definitely upper echelon, but probably not worth the big money he wants.  He doesn't deserve lockdown corner pay, and wont all of a sudden transform our secondary into an elite unit or anything.

The Patriots have a secondary problem all of a sudden (after having the deepest group in the league for the past 4 or 5 seasons), so i'm also not sure if they are going to let him walk.

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1 hour ago, Rhg1084 said:

The Jets gave up the most passing yards in the league last year. They need to upgrade the secondary somehow whether it’s a free agent corner or using a high pick on a corner. So while it’s fun to say “Jets don’t value corners” the reality is they were getting toasted on a weekly basis giving up tons of yards and TDs.

Well, I don't think its true that 'Jets don't value CBs' and I never actually said that. My whole point was that they are developing a number of young promising CBs. Thats different from 'Jets don't value CBs'- an opinion held by some but certainly not by me. 

I also think you have to look at lack of pass rush and quality safety play along with atrocious run defense as a big part of why the Jets gave up so many pass yards. Now, I'm not going to sit here and pretend like we have dominant CBs and the terrible pass D was everyone else's fault. However, CB may not be our biggest problem on defense. And the fact that we have young, promising depth might be a good reason NOT to invest in a high-priced FA. 

So yeah, upgrade the secondary by getting actual starting caliber safeties. Upgrade our Pass Rush so teams actually have to game-plan for it. Maybe do a half-way decent job at stopping the run. Then we will see how many pass yards this CB group ends up giving up.   

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Well my thinking is the cap is around 200, with around 100 going to the D. IF we have 4 major studs on the DLINE, starting with Q, then Lawson, then 2 more, there goes $70-$80m/yr to the dline (Saleh's preferred), leaving $20-$30 for the rest of the D, including LB, S, & DB. That's why other than Mosley our LB safties and DBs are 5th and 6th round picks. They're cheap out of necessity. Can't see Saleh throwing that all away and moving major cap away from the dline to the secondary. That'd be a rex ryan defense, not a Saleh defense!

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4 hours ago, More Cowbell said:

It only matter if we are actually trying to sign him. We won't  be doing that. I can see someone like Eli Apple  or Xavier  Rhodes, not a guy ranked this high. We won't  be talking to his agent. 

Yep I agree 100% 

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2 hours ago, bitonti said:

The system Saleh is running does not prioritize coverage corners. You don't need to spend a lot to find zone guys. It's really hard for us as fans to switch our thinking from 3-4 to 4-3 but when the pressure comes from the defensive line without blitzes, you don't need fancy corners to live on the island. 

Yeah, but it is nice to have.  

I am not arguing your general point about zone coverage.  It is the dominant coverage in the league.  I am only saying, if you have a lock down corner, the DC has that much more he can do creatively.  Of course, that can go with a dominant 'one of one' on any level of the D.

I am not saying JC is that guy.  he is good.  He was better with Gilmore across from him.  

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6 hours ago, JoJoTownsell1 said:

This is in comparison to the free agent class of 2021 that brought us Kenny Golloday, Will Fuller, Corey Davis, Juju, Sammy Watkins and QBs like ryan fitzpatrick who all were either terrible or hurt? 

The reality is always that free agent classes are rarely all that good because elite players are either tagged or are already signed up long term. This year is no different especially since Chris Godwin/Odell tore their ACLs. 

Yup. There will be a tracker of "top FAs" every year and like 9 of the top 12 guys all re-sign/get franchised etc.

Elite players at important positions almost never hit FA.

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50 minutes ago, UntouchableCrew said:

I am very, very wary of signing ex-Patriots. They maximize the talent of everyone they have. Hide their weaknesses, play off their strengths. A lot of it is system and good coaching.

I won't pretend I'm a scout with a strong take on Jackson either way but giving huge market setting money to a former Pat scares me.

Agree...BB is the best in the business at picking players that fit the system he wants to run. And what makes this over the top... is he changes it every year...How long is this ole bastage gonna hang around. 

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Ideally, with a lot of high draft picks, I think it would be a good philosophy to sign free agents at non-premium positions (Safety, Tight End, non-edge linebacker, and even Running Back these days), and use the 4 premium draft picks to get cheaper contracts at higher-cost positions (Wide Receiver, Edge, Corner, and OL).  I know the unpredictability of how the draft will fall, and what opportunities may arise in FA or veteran trade availability could alter that plan, though.

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I am very, very wary of signing ex-Patriots. They maximize the talent of everyone they have. Hide their weaknesses, play off their strengths. A lot of it is system and good coaching.
I won't pretend I'm a scout with a strong take on Jackson either way but giving huge market setting money to a former Pat scares me.


Bill Belicheck’s outright strategy is to coach to a players strength and not ask the to do the things they’re not good at, and to put them in position to succeed. Our Defense is self proclaimed to be able to be run by a monkey. It doesn’t rely on anything at all but stopping the run and pressure on the QB from the front 4. It could also use a dominating ballhawk safety which makes me worried we’re drafting Hamilton. But CB is just not priority on this D, they play mostly zone


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Agree...BB is the best in the business at picking players that fit the system he wants to run. And what makes this over the top... is he changes it every year...How long is this ole bastage gonna hang around. 
But its that Ernie Adams guy that lurks in the shadows that is the real source of magic. BB was smart to find that freak of an NFL mind.

https://www.audacy.com/weei/sports/patriots/belichick-is-consulting-with-ernie-adams-and-scarnecchia


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