Packers free up nearly 25 million in cap space by doing nothing

[HawkeyeJet]

I have to preface this by saying I’m no cap and/or contract guru nor do I care to be.

That said, the NFL salary cap seems to be a complete farce and incredibly easily to manipulate.  

The Packers, who are anticipated to be about 50 million dollars over the cap, cleared out nearly half that amount by basically doing logistical switching of bonus money yada yada.

The salary cap in the NFL is supposed to be their answer to competitive balance.  As an average fan, I don’t think  it comes anywhere close to doing that.  Too many loopholes and ways around it.  If the Packers want nearly the same team back next year, they can find a way to do it.  

At  most, it seems the cap just allows teams to kick the cam down the road until their window closes anyway, then they can just do what the Jets are doing now and start over from bare bones trying to amass tons of picks.  

[Rhg1084]

Still sounds like they need to allocate about $70m for their QB and WR tho which could be tricky 

[peekskill68]

5 minutes ago, HawkeyeJet said:

I have to preface this by saying I’m no cap and/or contract guru nor do I care to be.

That said, the NFL salary cap seems to be a complete farce and incredibly easily to manipulate.  

The Packers, who are anticipated to be about 50 million dollars over the cap, cleared out nearly half that amount by basically doing logistical switching of bonus money yada yada.

The salary cap in the NFL is supposed to be their answer to competitive balance.  As an average fan, I don’t think  it comes anywhere close to doing that.  Too many loopholes and ways around it.  If the Packers want nearly the same team back next year, they can find a way to do it.  

At  most, it seems the cap just allows teams to kick the cam down the road until their window closes anyway, then they can just do what the Jets are doing now and start over from bare bones trying to amass tons of picks.  

All teams need to do is sign lucrative therapy/sports meds deals with their FQBs and the cap becomes much easier to work with...

[Beerfish]

That's why I laugh each year when early on people get in a lather about the jets (or any other team for that matter) having gobs of cap space to sign the top end guys going to fa.

[section314]

14 minutes ago, Beerfish said:

That's why I laugh each year when early on people get in a lather about the jets (or any other team for that matter) having gobs of caps space to sign the top end guys going to fa.

Good point.....that's why these guys do what they do for a living.

[Beerfish]

If there are loop holes teams will find them, look at the NHL and the LTIR rule.

[Stark]

59 minutes ago, Beerfish said:

That's why I laugh each year when early on people get in a lather about the jets (or any other team for that matter) having gobs of cap space to sign the top end guys going to fa.

also when people say "we can't afford "X" player"

 

easy to move the money around

[Jet Nut]

4 hours ago, Rhg1084 said:

Still sounds like they need to allocate about $70m for their QB and WR tho which could be tricky 

Yeah not sure I understand all the loop hole talk.  They’re still screwed, $25m over the cap with their HOF starting QB needing a $30M-$50M deal and their starting WR looking for $20-$30M. 

[David Harris]

It’s kicking the can down the road. It’s what teams do when a QB is taking 20% of their cap. Saints did for years with Brees and is why they’re about to be deconstructed.

Worth it if you keep your window open.  
 

And mitigated when the cap keeps going up.

[heymangold]

Only about 30 more til they’re at 0!

[Larz]

Which packer did you want?

[LAD_Brooklyn]

2 hours ago, Jet Nut said:

Yeah not sure I understand all the loop hole talk.  They’re still screwed, $25m over the cap with their HOF starting QB needing a $30M-$50M deal and their starting WR looking for $20-$30M. 

DeAndre Hopkins was paid $29M in 2022 and only counted for $7M in cap space. Plus a player of Adams caliber is going to warrant a lot of signing bonus money anyways. Therefore his cash payout and cap hit are going to differ. 

Rodgers cap hit is $46M, a new contract is necessary for both sides as the Packers need to get under the cap and Aaron is only being paid $27M cash for next season. 

[LAD_Brooklyn]

7 hours ago, HawkeyeJet said:

I have to preface this by saying I’m no cap and/or contract guru nor do I care to be.

That said, the NFL salary cap seems to be a complete farce and incredibly easily to manipulate.  

The Packers, who are anticipated to be about 50 million dollars over the cap, cleared out nearly half that amount by basically doing logistical switching of bonus money yada yada.

The salary cap in the NFL is supposed to be their answer to competitive balance.  As an average fan, I don’t think  it comes anywhere close to doing that.  Too many loopholes and ways around it.  If the Packers want nearly the same team back next year, they can find a way to do it.  

At  most, it seems the cap just allows teams to kick the cam down the road until their window closes anyway, then they can just do what the Jets are doing now and start over from bare bones trying to amass tons of picks.  

We weren't complaining about this when Tanny was working his magic doing the same thing. As it did with us, it's all going to catch up with said team on the backend of things.

[Barry McCockinner]

7 hours ago, Rhg1084 said:

Still sounds like they need to allocate about $70m for their QB and WR tho which could be tricky 

that's not including space for draft picks

[bla bla bla]

7 hours ago, HawkeyeJet said:

I have to preface this by saying I’m no cap and/or contract guru nor do I care to be.

That said, the NFL salary cap seems to be a complete farce and incredibly easily to manipulate.  

The Packers, who are anticipated to be about 50 million dollars over the cap, cleared out nearly half that amount by basically doing logistical switching of bonus money yada yada.

The salary cap in the NFL is supposed to be their answer to competitive balance.  As an average fan, I don’t think  it comes anywhere close to doing that.  Too many loopholes and ways around it.  If the Packers want nearly the same team back next year, they can find a way to do it.  

At  most, it seems the cap just allows teams to kick the cam down the road until their window closes anyway, then they can just do what the Jets are doing now and start over from bare bones trying to amass tons of picks.  

The trick that the Saints have been using is adding Void years onto contracts so that you are paying the signing bonus money across more years than just the time period on the team.

In short, yes you can manipulate the cap but you will be paying for it on the back end with either dead cap or keeping players on contracts beyond their shelf life.

[Lith]

6 hours ago, Beerfish said:

That's why I laugh each year when early on people get in a lather about the jets (or any other team for that matter) having gobs of cap space to sign the top end guys going to fa.

Yup.  I also love it during FA when a guy signs with another team and we immediately get the posts "for that contract, we shoudl have signed him."  Its like folks don't realize that the decision maker in FA is the player.  If a guy signs a deal with the Chiefs or Rams or Bills, they would not be signing for the same money with the Jets.  We have to get competitive before we can sign guys without paying a "Jets premium." 

FA is one of the reasons it is so hard for a perennial loser to fight their way out of it.

[Jetscode1]

7 hours ago, HawkeyeJet said:

I have to preface this by saying I’m no cap and/or contract guru nor do I care to be.

That said, the NFL salary cap seems to be a complete farce and incredibly easily to manipulate.  

The Packers, who are anticipated to be about 50 million dollars over the cap, cleared out nearly half that amount by basically doing logistical switching of bonus money yada yada.

The salary cap in the NFL is supposed to be their answer to competitive balance.  As an average fan, I don’t think  it comes anywhere close to doing that.  Too many loopholes and ways around it.  If the Packers want nearly the same team back next year, they can find a way to do it.  

At  most, it seems the cap just allows teams to kick the cam down the road until their window closes anyway, then they can just do what the Jets are doing now and start over from bare bones trying to amass tons of picks.  

What is a salary cap?  Does it apply to all teams?  Is there an allowance for established teams who have carved an identify that makes the NFL watchable on Sunday?   To not allow the name-brand teams to go over the cap seems down right un-democratic? 

[JoJoTownsell1]

7 hours ago, HawkeyeJet said:

I have to preface this by saying I’m no cap and/or contract guru nor do I care to be.

That said, the NFL salary cap seems to be a complete farce and incredibly easily to manipulate.  

The Packers, who are anticipated to be about 50 million dollars over the cap, cleared out nearly half that amount by basically doing logistical switching of bonus money yada yada.

The salary cap in the NFL is supposed to be their answer to competitive balance.  As an average fan, I don’t think  it comes anywhere close to doing that.  Too many loopholes and ways around it.  If the Packers want nearly the same team back next year, they can find a way to do it.  

At  most, it seems the cap just allows teams to kick the cam down the road until their window closes anyway, then they can just do what the Jets are doing now and start over from bare bones trying to amass tons of picks.  

People were saying the same thing the last few years with the Cowboys when they kept restructuring players and giving out huge contracts to Dak/Zeke etc.. Now the Cowboys have to decide between cutting Amari Cooper or Gallup, possibly one of Lawrence/Gregory and/or letting Dalton Schultz walk.

If you have a narrow window (like the Packers with an aging Rodgers) it can definitely make sense but it's not as easy and it does have consequences for teams that don't want to just tear it down in a couple of years (see Dallas 2022). 

[TheNuuFaaolaExperience]

The cap is doing the job that it was intended to do. Teams over the cap are scrambling to get under the cap for past mistakes. Kicking the can down the road prevents you from going on a free agent signing binge. 

[Hex]

Well at least the NFL doesn't allow owners to pay to bypass the cap space

[Jet Nut]

3 hours ago, LAD_Brooklyn said:

DeAndre Hopkins was paid $29M in 2022 and only counted for $7M in cap space. Plus a player of Adams caliber is going to warrant a lot of signing bonus money anyways. Therefore his cash payout and cap hit are going to differ. 

Rodgers cap hit is $46M, a new contract is necessary for both sides as the Packers need to get under the cap and Aaron is only being paid $27M cash for next season. 

Eventually the bill will be paid.  DHop isn’t a Packer, plays with a QB on his rookie deal and doesn’t have the talent of the Packers.  
Aaron is supposed to be paid $27M next season, he won’t play for that number.  Players have loopholes too

[Jet_Engine1]

8 hours ago, Beerfish said:

If there are loop holes teams will find them, look at the NHL and the LTIR rule.

Christ, just look at the farcical Rooney Rule 

[Sammybighead]

Year after year, naive fans flock to message boards to laugh at other teams misfortunes and claim they are in "cap hell". 

Year after year, these fans come to realize a simple truth: there is no cap hell.

[sec101row23]

9 hours ago, Sammybighead said:

Year after year, naive fans flock to message boards to laugh at other teams misfortunes and claim they are in "cap hell". 

Year after year, these fans come to realize a simple truth: there is no cap hell.

Exactly.   If a team really wants a player they will find a way to keep them.   If your team is in a legit Super Bowl window you can push some money out.   Once the window closes you simply make the necessary cuts and absorb the dead money in one year and then get back at it.   I’ve been saying for years that “cap hell” is just a myth.  

[Jimmy 2 Times]

It's why I was so frustrated that JD isn't spending to the cap right now.  Quarterback is on his rookie deal, build a real team around him.  Those "over valued" deals will be expiring when its time to pay Zach, AVT and our future rookie deal players. 

 

Spend now while you can.  

[Jimmy 2 Times]

This is also a reason to keep drafting o-line, receivers, and edges in round 1 every year.

Keep the pipeline going.  Start the comp pick game when the rookie deals expire and its time to let the guys that aren't on a yellow jacket trajectory walk. 

[BCJet]

15 hours ago, David Harris said:

It’s kicking the can down the road. It’s what teams do when a QB is taking 20% of their cap. Saints did for years with Brees and is why they’re about to be deconstructed.

Worth it if you keep your window open.  
 

And mitigated when the cap keeps going up.

Exactly

They didnt just convert salary to bonus, they added voidable years to the contracts in order to spread the bonus money over more seasons which will put dead money on their cap in 3+ years from now.  Its not completely devastating to a franchise to do this but at some point it will come back to them (at least a little) as you see with the saints this year

[JohnnyLV]

23 hours ago, HawkeyeJet said:

I have to preface this by saying I’m no cap and/or contract guru nor do I care to be.

That said, the NFL salary cap seems to be a complete farce and incredibly easily to manipulate.  

The Packers, who are anticipated to be about 50 million dollars over the cap, cleared out nearly half that amount by basically doing logistical switching of bonus money yada yada.

The salary cap in the NFL is supposed to be their answer to competitive balance.  As an average fan, I don’t think  it comes anywhere close to doing that.  Too many loopholes and ways around it.  If the Packers want nearly the same team back next year, they can find a way to do it.  

At  most, it seems the cap just allows teams to kick the cam down the road until their window closes anyway, then they can just do what the Jets are doing now and start over from bare bones trying to amass tons of picks.  

The NFL has a "soft" cap. It is there specifically to allow these types of moves to let them keep players. It only can go so far and eventually it catches up with you but they are not doing anything different than all other teams can do. Doing this though really puts the entire team on the brink. If they start getting injuries to these overpaid players they can see themselves completely devoid of talent and a bottom dwelling team. Teams like NO and Dallas now essentially face fire sales to get under the cap.

I am not a fan of this approach. Tannenbaum used it and we would up with a very small window of being good.

That said in the case of someone like Schultz the Jets should consider doing things like this to allow them to overpay him but not really affect the cap for a few years.

[tfine]

The NFL has a "soft" cap. It is there specifically to allow these types of moves to let them keep players. It only can go so far and eventually it catches up with you but they are not doing anything different than all other teams can do. Doing this though really puts the entire team on the brink. If they start getting injuries to these overpaid players they can see themselves completely devoid of talent and a bottom dwelling team. Teams like NO and Dallas now essentially face fire sales to get under the cap.
I am not a fan of this approach. Tannenbaum used it and we would up with a very small window of being good.
That said in the case of someone like Schultz the Jets should consider doing things like this to allow them to overpay him but not really affect the cap for a few years.

There is nothing wrong with signing high priced FAs as long as you draft well to fill the holes when these players become cap casualties or leave for other teams…There was nothing wrong with Mike Ts strategy at first….his problem was when he pushed all the chips in the middle of the table. Trading away draft capital and spending to the salary cap…this coupled with poor drafting…we are still paying for it today…draft misses like Kyle Wilson, Wilkerson, Quintin Coples , Stephen Hill, neglect of the offense….Tebow..Burris..Holmes instead of Braylon..Letting Cotchery go and replacing him with aging Derrick Mason.


Sent from my iPhone using JetNation.com mobile app

[Barry McCockinner]

3 hours ago, Jimmy 2 Times said:

It's why I was so frustrated that JD isn't spending to the cap right now.  Quarterback is on his rookie deal, build a real team around him.  Those "over valued" deals will be expiring when its time to pay Zach, AVT and our future rookie deal players. 

 

Spend now while you can.  

FA hasn't even started yet so maybe save your frustration until at least day 1 of FA?

[Barry McCockinner]

12 hours ago, Sammybighead said:

Year after year, naive fans flock to message boards to laugh at other teams misfortunes and claim they are in "cap hell". 

Year after year, these fans come to realize a simple truth: there is no cap hell.

The packers are still well over the cap after clearing up $25 million in cap space. They still have a QB who wants 50mm/year, a WR who wants 30mm/year and a draft class to sign.

Their situation has not been resolved by this. Something major will need to give.

[Jimmy 2 Times]

25 minutes ago, Barry McCockinner said:

FA hasn't even started yet so maybe save your frustration until at least day 1 of FA?

I was referring to last year.  Why carry so much cap space Zach's rookie year?  

Hopefully he spends while the Jets have the freedom to do so.  

[JohnnyLV]

1 hour ago, tfine said:

 

There is nothing wrong with signing high priced FAs as long as you draft well to fill the holes when these players become cap casualties or leave for other teams…There was nothing wrong with Mike Ts strategy at first….his problem was when he pushed all the chips in the middle of the table. Trading away draft capital and spending to the salary cap…this coupled with poor drafting…we are still paying for it today…draft misses like Kyle Wilson, Wilkerson, Quintin Coples , Stephen Hill, neglect of the offense….Tebow..Burris..Holmes instead of Braylon..Letting Cotchery go and replacing him with aging Derrick Mason.


Sent from my iPhone using JetNation.com mobile app

 

I am not a fan of high priced FAs in general but not as an absolute.

The vast majority of big ticket FAs are net negative to bad IMO. 95% of big ticket FAs are FAs because the team that had him no longer sees the value of that player in a big contract. But they have big names and get signed.

People never talk about the opportunity cost of signing a high priced FA. For every $3 million you spend on a FA over the $3 million baseline you cost yourself a solid depth play and every $5 million an OK starter and $7-$10 million a good starter. So give someone $20 million a year and they better be more valuable than 3 starters.

I would NEVER sign a third contract FA to a big money multi year contract. If you are a SB contender sometimes the older "rental" type named player does make sense.

People are pointing to the Rams as the model now to build through trading high picks for players and big FA signings but the reality is their best two players are draft picks, both in the Top 5 at their positions and 1 is the must disruptive and maybe best player in football.

People should be looking at Cinci instead that built through the draft, prioritized playmakers and offense and made the SB despite a shaky OL and mediocre defense. With a first contract QB they can be competitive for a decade. Rams not so much.

Having said all that I would pay well over market for Schultz

 

[Barry McCockinner]

3 hours ago, Jimmy 2 Times said:

I was referring to last year.  Why carry so much cap space Zach's rookie year?  

Hopefully he spends while the Jets have the freedom to do so.  

I don't know what his thought process was or how he'll approach FA this year. We can only speculate, obviously

I do think it would have been a reasonable approach for him to target year 2 of his new CS to go in heavy in FA. This would give him an opportunity to see what the needs would look like in this scheme. This year he has a much clearer picture of what the needs are, and so will the coaches. They'll be able to more confidently make aggressive FA moves this year if they choose, which I hope they do.

Another thing about last years FA period - he hadn't drafted Wilson yet so there wasn't rookie QB window started yet. Maybe he already knew he would be trading Darnold, but it's entirely possible it wasn't a 100% thing at that point and they were still thinking of possibly going forward w/Darnold.

[LAD_Brooklyn]

The New Orleans Saints have moved more than $26 million in salary cap charges into future years by restructuring the contracts of Michael Thomas and Ryan Ramczyk.

New Orleans began the offseason approximately $75 million over the projected cap of $208.2 million.

Thomas' restructure is especially notable since it further indicates that New Orleans has no plans to trade him.

The Saints converted $14.6 million of Thomas' scheduled salary and roster bonuses into a signing bonus, which means they can spread the cap charges over the next five years.