It's Combine Week

[GreenReaper]

5 hours ago, T0mShane said:

Feels like the Hutchinson and Thibodeaux workouts are going to shape the entire first round. If either of them run a 7.4 three-cone, the internet draft community is going to melt down

Freaking out already

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[Copernicus]

20 minutes ago, Beerfish said:

QB, Oline, WR, pass rusher, TE, CB are all higher priority positions for me than safety which is ahead of ilb and maybe RB, due to the fact that there are lots of good rbs each year.

I've heard the 'best player in the draft' hype year after year.  Jamal Adams was supposed to be 'the best player in the draft perhaps'  and lest we get the usual retcon, before the draft adams was a 'do it all' safety, he was no thought of as strictly a box safety.

The risk reward is not there for me at safety. 

Do I think the player is bad?  No, not at all.  But to justify me picking a S that high (again) he better be D rookie of the year, then a pro bowler for 10 years in a row.

I hear you, and would agree ( and a little as last week at this time I would have posted the same Lmao). Then I listen to Frankie From Flatbush and @Green Bean and start to think "Yeah, Hamilton makes sense." Because of Hamilton's size and speed I am forcing myself to not think of him as a safety but a multi talented, versatile player at many defensive positions who just happens to play safety. It will be interesting to see what Douglas does if Hamilton continues to rises and the draft goes Neal (or Ikey), Hutchinson, and Thibs. Select Hamilton and go edge at 10, Wr at 35 and TE at 38? Much will start to make sense come FA signings. Crazy how our draft can go in so many directions.

[Jet Nut]

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[Jet Nut]

56 minutes ago, Beerfish said:

QB, Oline, WR, pass rusher, TE, CB are all higher priority positions for me than safety which is ahead of ilb and maybe RB, due to the fact that there are lots of good rbs each year.

I've heard the 'best player in the draft' hype year after year.  Jamal Adams was supposed to be 'the best player in the draft perhaps'  and lest we get the usual retcon, before the draft adams was a 'do it all' safety, he was no thought of as strictly a box safety.

The risk reward is not there for me at safety. 

Do I think the player is bad?  No, not at all.  But to justify me picking a S that high (again) he better be D rookie of the year, then a pro bowler for 10 years in a row.

Jamal Adams career would be the last reason I stay away from a Hamilton pick.  Theyre two different players and hes a huge position of need for the Jets.  It wouldnt upset me if hes the pick

[Integrity28]

2 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

Jamal Adams career would be the last reason I stay away from a Hamilton pick.  Theyre two different players and hes a huge position of need for the Jets.  It wouldnt upset me if hes the pick

Jamal wasn’t a bad pick because he was a safety. He was a bad pick because he grew into a me-first player. He didn’t come out if college like that - it’s what losing a lot did to him. Revealed his true nature.

I don’t live safety early because if value, but if Hamilton is the goods who cares where he was picked? We need good players everywhere. Not a single position in this roster cannot be upgraded except LG.

[Jet Nut]

15 minutes ago, Integrity28 said:

Jamal wasn’t a bad pick because he was a safety. He was a bad pick because he grew into a me-first player. He didn’t come out if college like that - it’s what losing a lot did to him. Revealed his true nature.

I don’t live safety early because if value, but if Hamilton is the goods who cares where he was picked? We need good players everywhere. Not a single position in this roster cannot be upgraded except LG.

I'm totally with you.  I dont have a problem with the Adams who showed up early and played hard.  I learned to hate the look at me Adams who made the focus all on himself over the team.  

That doesnt change the fact that if Hamilton is all they say he is I could care less that some fans think you dont take a S early.  No one is saying Hamilton shouldnt be taken early.  Its like saying because Geno sucked on every level we never should take a QB early

[Matt39]

11 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

I'm totally with you.  I dont have a problem with the Adams who showed up early and played hard.  I learned to hate the look at me Adams who made the focus all on himself over the team.  

That doesnt change the fact that if Hamilton is all they say he is I could care less that some fans think you dont take a S early.  No one is saying Hamilton shouldnt be taken early.  Its like saying because Geno sucked on every level we never should take a QB early

I dont see Hamilton as a game changing type of player. Do you? He didnt dominate at ND like you'd expect a top 5 pick would at that position. 

[freestater]

38 minutes ago, Integrity28 said:

Not a single position in this roster cannot be upgraded except LG.

[Augustiniak]

39 minutes ago, Integrity28 said:

Jamal wasn’t a bad pick because he was a safety. He was a bad pick because he grew into a me-first player. He didn’t come out if college like that - it’s what losing a lot did to him. Revealed his true nature.

I don’t live safety early because if value, but if Hamilton is the goods who cares where he was picked? We need good players everywhere. Not a single position in this roster cannot be upgraded except LG.

He was a bad pick b/c he was a safety.  There just aren’t many safeties who truly impact the game.  How many times do you watch a football game and say ‘wow, the safety really beat us today’?  

[BurnleyJet]

4 hours ago, Integrity28 said:

Give me the GM that can use both inputs to evaluate talent, rather than the silly fan with reductionist logic that makes every thing binary.

You every thought our GM maybe Non-binary ?

[Untouchable]

15 minutes ago, Augustiniak said:

He was a bad pick b/c he was a safety.  There just aren’t many safeties who truly impact the game.  How many times do you watch a football game and say ‘wow, the safety really beat us today’?  

Perhaps

But there are plenty of Jets fans who would gladly draft an interior OL like Ekwonu or Linderbaum in the Top 10.

Quenton Nelson is on the fast track to the Hall of Fame. But he still hasn’t really moved the needle for the Colts at the end of the day.

This is looking like the weakest draft class since maybe going back to 2013.

That’s the whole reason why I wouldn’t be pissed if the Jets grabbed a dude like Hamilton or Ekwonu at #4. At least I don’t see much of a bust risk there and feel comfortable that either one would be a 10 year starter.

[GangGreen Machine]

CB 40 times are extremely important. Ask Joe Haden and Cam Danzler. 

[Augustiniak]

43 minutes ago, Untouchable said:

Perhaps

But there are plenty of Jets fans who would gladly draft an interior OL like Ekwonu or Linderbaum in the Top 10.

Quenton Nelson is on the fast track to the Hall of Fame. But he still hasn’t really moved the needle for the Colts at the end of the day.

This is looking like the weakest draft class since maybe going back to 2013.

That’s the whole reason why I wouldn’t be pissed if the Jets grabbed a dude like Hamilton or Ekwonu at #4. At least I don’t see much of a bust risk there and feel comfortable that either one would be a 10 year starter.

i’d rather have ekongwu even if they played him at RT.  If he’s good he helps the qb, the running and passing games, and also, we see how much a good RT goes for in FA.  By contrast there were more than enough safeties out there in FA.  So replacement cost matters.

[Hex]

For those saying it's dumb and pointless, be aware that any information or data GMs and coaches can get on college players is currency. The more, the merrier. You don't need to watch it, but even if it just says a little bit about a player, that's better than nothing.

[Lith]

22 minutes ago, Hex said:

For those saying it's dumb and pointless, be aware that any information or data GMs and coaches can get on college players is currency. The more, the merrier. You don't need to watch it, but even if it just says a little bit about a player, that's better than nothing.

The other piece of this that people don't talk about is the part of the combine we don't see.  Which players will be meeting with the Jets during the course of the week.  I will be looking for those updates just as much as 40 times, 3-cones, measurements and on-field drills.

[Shelbyblue]

Combine means nothing as far as play ability. The tape doesn’t lie.

[Bronx]

11 hours ago, kevinc855 said:

Combine is so stupid.....guys throwing in Shorts with no pressure coming at them....yea pass

Also these metrics sometimes fool you. There is metrics and football smarts. Give me the football smart guys over the guys who can run super fast etc 

Combine.......yawnnnn

Yes, let them duke it out like gladiators. 

[Hal N of Provo]

2 hours ago, Shelbyblue said:

Combine means nothing as far as play ability. The tape doesn’t lie.

Seems this narrative is popular but I disagree. 

 If you were a weapon invited to the combine you were running away from people, but it’s all relative.  

Tape matters more but these times do matter.   It provides context to the tape.  Is it breakaway in the NFL speed, or above average NFL speed etc…  average or NFL slow?  

like @Lith said, it’s just a data point, but it’s valuable.  I look forward to seeing how everyone tests.  I hope the EDGES and TEs test well and continue to look like deep groups.  

[Jet Nut]

8 hours ago, Matt39 said:

I dont see Hamilton as a game changing type of player. Do you? He didnt dominate at ND like you'd expect a top 5 pick would at that position. 

I think he. An be because he can be used so many different ways.  The othe issue is who else will be available at 4 who’s a game changer?  I’m thinking if Thibedeau continues to fall the difference to the available edges aren’t enough to get drafted that high, are the OL that will be available?

A lot of people have him ranked around 2, there has to be something there

[Greenbloodblitz]

15 hours ago, Nixhead said:

,One of the most important traits Salah looks for in a player is his love of the game. Does the player love the game but other things come 1st like in Becton's case food or does the player love football and football is their life. Like Zach Wilson had a girlfriend but she wanted to spend time with him this offseason but Zach Wilson wasn't having that crap. Sorry Babe  I can't take away from my football time to cuddle - its more important than you! Plus one nighters can be fun. Thats the kind of players Salah is looking for - So Salah and staff should be monitoring what time these rookies show up for the combine. If you show up early and are on the field practicing and talking to other players and coaches its a plus. If your late because you were at your homies birthday party then your off Salah's draft able list. all these guys can play - its what time you show up for the combine that counts!!!

I understand what you're saying I guess we speak the same language. It's not so much about the measurables, it's about accountability.

It's what I actually really like about Saleh, he means what he says. It's also why Mims is in the dog house and Berrios is getting a new contract.

When asked why he wasn't as animated on the sideline as everybody anticipated, he said these young men are getting paid millions of dollars to play a children's game if they need to be yelled at then they don't belong here. That's very telling.

He also said he doesn't care where you were drafted or how much you're getting paid, the guys that show on the field that they deserve to play will play.

In my opinion he's going to turn this team around and put the types of people on the field that will get it done no matter what. Certain types of people will respond to that, hence the Michael Carter's, Braxton, Fant, Pinnock etc.

I guess what I'm saying is if you know you're going to be buried on the depth chart your motivation will be different than if you actually believe you have a chance to start. I believe our H.C. is a man of his word. Dude's respect that.

So I get what you're saying about the punctuality thing as he's looking for a specific kind of person that takes that serious, as they should.

[Greenbloodblitz]

8 hours ago, Augustiniak said:

He was a bad pick b/c he was a safety.  There just aren’t many safeties who truly impact the game.  How many times do you watch a football game and say ‘wow, the safety really beat us today’?  

While Ed Reed and Troy Polamalu come to mind, if we could have combined Adams and Maye into one guy we'd have ourselves a MF'n safety. I've always liked Maye and I wish him the best no matter what.

Jamal Adams is a dick plain and simple.

[BurntDice]

4 hours ago, Shelbyblue said:

Combine means nothing as far as play ability. The tape doesn’t lie.

For smaller school guys, sure it does. If wr or rbs are blowing past guys in a d2 or a weaker conference school it’s important to see if they are actually fast/agile or it was just the competition they were playing. Same with dbs/lbs from smaller schools. They may have looked great covering late round/undrafted guys, but do they actually have the athletic ability to do that against some of the worlds best athletes?

 

Side discussion that may be worth looking into I read somewhere a while ago that wrs who ran a 4.58 or lower had a very high rate of not being successful in the nfl. Maybe it’s true maybe not? But it sounds pretty accurate 

[Jet Nut]

15 hours ago, Augustiniak said:

He was a bad pick b/c he was a safety.  There just aren’t many safeties who truly impact the game.  How many times do you watch a football game and say ‘wow, the safety really beat us today’?  

Championship Bears, championship 49rs, championship Bucs, championship Broncos, championship Steelers, championship Ravens? 

Lynch, Lott, Lynch again, Palomala, Reed?  How many years were they relevant?  

[Untouchable]

13 hours ago, Augustiniak said:

i’d rather have ekongwu even if they played him at RT.  If he’s good he helps the qb, the running and passing games, and also, we see how much a good RT goes for in FA.  By contrast there were more than enough safeties out there in FA.  So replacement cost matters.

But that’s the thing.

Ekwonu isn’t playing RT unless Becton proves to be a massive disappointment.

Fant and Becton are the bookend tackles as things stand right now.

You’d be drafting Ekwonu at #4 and sticking him at RG.

“Good” RT’s in FA typically go for $10-12 million a year. The same as “good” safeties. Elite RT’s go for around $16 million a year, which is right around what the top safety set to hit FA (Marcus Williams) is projected to sign for.

[sourceworx]

20 hours ago, Larz said:

I remember watching jay cutler to see what his mph was going to be 

?

Not sure if it's out there on YouTube, but I remember Mike Mayock was practically having orgasms while watching Jay Cutler throw at the combine.

[Matt39]

11 hours ago, Shelbyblue said:

Combine means nothing as far as play ability. The tape doesn’t lie.

His tape doesn’t blow you away. Hamiltons 40 time will be big. 

[derp]

7 hours ago, BurntDice said:

For smaller school guys, sure it does. If wr or rbs are blowing past guys in a d2 or a weaker conference school it’s important to see if they are actually fast/agile or it was just the competition they were playing. Same with dbs/lbs from smaller schools. They may have looked great covering late round/undrafted guys, but do they actually have the athletic ability to do that against some of the worlds best athletes?

 

Side discussion that may be worth looking into I read somewhere a while ago that wrs who ran a 4.58 or lower had a very high rate of not being successful in the nfl. Maybe it’s true maybe not? But it sounds pretty accurate 

I think anything like that is more helpful if you filter on draft capital spent on the player. A lot of those guys probably go undrafted and never get a shot in the NFL. More telling to see what happens with the guys teams see something in. I can't think of a ton of guys off the top of my head who were slower than that and drafted, say within the first three rounds - but those I can think of (Kupp, Allen, Boldin) turned out pretty good.

[The Crusher]

They need to add something to the combine to prognosticate durability, the medical exams don’t help. Sick of everyone we draft  getting hurt and missing time. 

[Copernicus]

17 hours ago, Matt39 said:

I dont see Hamilton as a game changing type of player. Do you? He didnt dominate at ND like you'd expect a top 5 pick would at that position. 

I am not arguing that Hamilton is the #1 game changer in this draft defensively. I think there are maybe 2 in Thibs and Hutch. In the event they are not there at #4 and the #1 OLINE-man is off the board, the question would be: Do we take the 3d best EDGE (which still hasnt been determined and what many think is a drop off but also many to choose from in rounds 1 and 2) or the top safety, who happens to play multiple positions well (so is not considered your typical safety)? Crazy decision

[Augustiniak]

2 hours ago, Jet Nut said:

Championship Bears, championship 49rs, championship Bucs, championship Broncos, championship Steelers, championship Ravens? 

Lynch, Lott, Lynch again, Palomala, Reed?  How many years were they relevant?  

Reed, Lott and palomolu are 3 of the best safeties ever.  After these guys there’s a real big drop off.  Unless you get a HOF safety that safety you draft won’t help you as much as a pretty good OL.

[Augustiniak]

2 hours ago, Untouchable said:

But that’s the thing.

Ekwonu isn’t playing RT unless Becton proves to be a massive disappointment.

Fant and Becton are the bookend tackles as things stand right now.

You’d be drafting Ekwonu at #4 and sticking him at RG.

“Good” RT’s in FA typically go for $10-12 million a year. The same as “good” safeties. Elite RT’s go for around $16 million a year, which is right around what the top safety set to hit FA (Marcus Williams) is projected to sign for.

We’ll see if they can keep fant.  And if you’re douglas, who has banked his job and gm rep on developing wilson, would you rely on becton getting his stuff together for a full season to protect wilson?  I wouldn’t.  I would take a tackle at 4 or 10 and be ready for a real contingency plan, and also try to trade becton. 

[Matt39]

9 minutes ago, Copernicus said:

I am not arguing that Hamilton is the #1 game changer in this draft defensively. I think there are maybe 2 in Thibs and Hutch. In the event they are not there at #4 and the #1 OLINE-man is off the board, the question would be: Do we take the 3d best EDGE (which still hasnt been determined and what many think is a drop off but also many to choose from in rounds 1 and 2) or the top safety, who happens to play multiple positions well (so is not considered your typical safety)? Crazy decision

I say EDGE without blinking. Hamilton isn’t even Fitzpatrick coming out from a few years ago. He just doesn’t strike me as a playmaker. If he runs a low 4.4 then it changes things, but his game speed doesn’t look like he will.

[GreenReaper]

16 hours ago, Matt39 said:

I dont see Hamilton as a game changing type of player. Do you? He didnt dominate at ND like you'd expect a top 5 pick would at that position. 

Hamilton has the athletic tools to be special.  But it's not a given that he'll turn out that way in the NFL.  

Jets drafted a special arm talent QB with good mobility in Zach Wilson.  Possibly the most talented QB drafted since Namath.  But it was never a guarantee he would be special in the NFL.  Jets need to focus in the earlier part of the  draft to get him up to 20+ TD speed and establish him as Jets FQB.  

IMO...that's more important then committing a #4 pick on Hamilton.  Then coaching and developing him into possibly becoming a PB safety.  Except for some brief moments...Jets have been a fail at the QB position for decades.  And with today's rules heavily favoring offense.  A team needs to have a FQB type of player in order to string 4-6 playoff seasons in a row.  And have a chance to compete for a Lombardi Trophy.  

No QB...no Trophy.   IMO the main focus of this offseason needs to continue being the upgrading of offense for ZW.  We need to find out...and see what he's got...now...this year. 

I do have confidence in Zach Wilson.  But that needs to be backed up with JD-Saleh committing on giving him the necessary tools to succeed.           

[T0mShane]

18 hours ago, Integrity28 said:

He didn’t come out if college like that - it’s what losing a lot did to him.

He gave himself the nickname “The President” in college.

[Integrity28]

3 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

He gave himself the nickname “The President” in college.

Yes, I know. The narcissism was there, but didn’t manifest as completely toxic and self-oreservational… mostly, because he could beat up on lesser athletes and LSU won.

Take away the winning and let him get hit by men. All of a sudden he’s soft physically and mentally, and the veil is lifted.

That’s all I meant. His true nature was revealed, it wasn’t apparent coming out. I’m not saying it wasn’t there, I guess.