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12 minutes ago, Mogglez said:

1.  That spending a top 5 - top 10 pick on player in the hopes that he is as good as a 3rd round pick (almost 4th round pick) is unfathomably stupid.  You try and find the next Justin Simmons by spending the same resources on a player like him.  Not by overrating his position by almost 3 whole rounds.

2.  That unless your name is Ed Reed, Ronnie Lott, or Troy Polamalu, etc., you aren’t pivotal to any team playing the Safety position.

Carl Lawson is a pass rusher.  His position actually makes a difference.

The Broncos sooper dooper defense led by Justin Simmons has won them absolute d*ck the last 7 seasons, so excuse me for drawing out the longest yawn I can possibly imagine at the idea of replicating the Denver Broncos.  So far, we have no idea what we have at HC, QB, and overall management.  The only thing drafting a Safety in the top 5-10 will tell us is that Joe Douglas is an even bigger idiot than some people are starting to suspect he might be.

There are plenty of players that you could argue for at #4.  Burks.  KT.  Ekwonu.  They’re all better value picks than a Safety, even if they aren’t better players at their respective positions.  Drafting a high-end player at a meaningless position is how you end up with Saquon Barkley instead of Josh Allen, Lamar Jackson, etc.

What? lol

1. Your first point is inherently goofy. Teams have spent many a Top 5 picks on trying to duplicate players at the same position, “premium” or otherwise, that were taken much later.

2. My assh0le. There have been plenty of safeties who weren’t the cream of the crop, all-time greats who have ended up playing a pivotal role in their overall teams success. Saleh himself came from one of them. Earl Thomas and Kam Chancellor are probably THE most pivotal pieces of the “Legion of Boom” Seattle SB winning defense.

And anyone who would take Treylon Burks at #4 is a goofy dickhead lol. I, and many others, would argue that despite the weakest draft class in a decade, none of these receivers are worth a Top 15 pick, much less a Top 5 pick.

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5 minutes ago, Untouchable said:

What? lol

1. Your first point is inherently goofy. Teams have spent many a Top 5 picks on trying to duplicate players at the same position, “premium” or otherwise, that were taken much later.

2. My assh0le. There have been plenty of safeties who weren’t the cream of the crop, all-time greats who have ended up playing a pivotal role in their overall teams success. Saleh himself came from one of them. Earl Thomas and Kam Chancellor are probably THE most pivotal pieces of the “Legion of Boom” Seattle SB winning defense.

And anyone who would take Treylon Burks at #4 is a goofy dickhead lol. I, and many others, would argue that despite the weakest draft class in a decade, none of these receivers are worth a Top 15 pick, much less a Top 5 pick.

Almost no one in this draft is worthy of a top 10 pick, if you look at least year compared to this year it is sickening.

I equate Hamilton to Derwin James.

 

 

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13 minutes ago, Untouchable said:

What? lol

1. Your first point is inherently goofy. Teams have spent many a Top 5 picks on trying to duplicate players at the same position, “premium” or otherwise, that were taken much later.

2. My assh0le. There have been plenty of safeties who weren’t the cream of the crop, all-time greats who have ended up playing a pivotal role in their overall teams success. Saleh himself came from one of them. Earl Thomas and Kam Chancellor are probably THE most pivotal pieces of the “Legion of Boom” Seattle SB winning defense.

And anyone who would take Treylon Burks at #4 is a goofy dickhead lol. I, and many others, would argue that despite the weakest draft class in a decade, none of these receivers are worth a Top 15 pick, much less a Top 5 pick.

1.  Really?  You find me a “non-premium” player in the last 15 years taken in the top 5 that was worth the selection.  Don’t try and squeeze Quinton Nelson in there either.  I’ve already explained how a 10 year anchor on your IOL is looked at differently nowadays.

2.  Lmfao, Earl Thomas was picked a whole 10 slots lower than where some are suggesting we take Hamilton.  Kam Chancellor was a 5th round pick.  Mid-1st is the absolute earliest you should start considering a Safety and if you are to consider it that early, they better be a dominant, Ball-Hawking, Free Safety like Earl was, not “a bigger Justin Simmons”.

I’ll see your “goofy dickhead” and raise you a “stupid f*cking idiot” for anyone that wants to draft Kyle Hamilton with either one of our picks.

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1 minute ago, Beerfish said:

Almost no one in this draft is worthy of a top 10 pick, if you look at least year compared to this year it is sickening.

I equate Hamilton to Derwin James.

 

 

Kyle Hamilton is as good as Derwin James in his dreams.

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Just now, Beerfish said:

Almost no one in this draft is worthy of a top 10 pick, if you look at least year compared to this year it is sickening.

I equate Hamilton to Derwin James.

 

 

Yeah, and I would take the next Derwin James 100 times out of 100 in the Top 5 of this class assuming that Hutchinson is off the table.

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2 minutes ago, Mogglez said:

1.  Really?  You find me a “non premium” player in the last 15 years taken in the top 5 that was worth the selection.

2.  Lmfao, Earl Thomas was picked a whole 10 slots lower than where some are suggesting we take Hamilton.  Kam Chancellor was a 5th round pick.  Mid-1st is the absolute earliest you should start considering a Safety and if you are to consider it that early, they better be a dominant, Ball-Hawking, Free Safety like Earl was, not “a bigger Justin Simmons”.

I’ll see your “goofy dickhead” and raise you a “stupid f*cking idiot” for anyone that wants to draft Kyle Hamilton with either one of our picks.

1. Scherff was taken at #6. I’m sure the Redsk…oops, “Commanders” were all kinds of broken up inside over taking him over the illustrious Leonard Williams…

2. Whoa, a whole 10 spots lower in a draft that featured Suh, Trent Williams, Eric Berry (hey, another great safety), Joe Haden, etc.

Do you realize how dumb this sounds just to justify a position?

I’ve already said that I wouldn’t pay the time of day to a dude like Hamilton if this wasn’t such a sh*t draft and we weren’t set to start Ashtyn Davis and Elijah Riley at safety next year, but, pre-free agency, yeah, drafting Kyle Hamilton isn’t the worst thought in the world at the moment.

I really don’t understand why this is such a blasphemous thought to so many.

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21 minutes ago, Untouchable said:

1. Scherff was taken at #6. I’m sure the Redsk…oops, “Commanders” were all kinds of broken up inside over taking him over the illustrious Leonard Williams…

2. Whoa, a whole 10 spots lower in a draft that featured Suh, Trent Williams, Eric Berry (hey, another great safety), Joe Haden, etc.

Do you realize how dumb this sounds just to justify a position?

I’ve already said that I wouldn’t pay the time of day to a dude like Hamilton if this wasn’t such a sh*t draft and we weren’t set to start Ashtyn Davis and Elijah Riley at safety next year, but, pre-free agency, yeah, drafting Kyle Hamilton isn’t the worst thought in the world at the moment.

I really don’t understand why this is such a blasphemous thought to so many.

1.  What part of a long term IOL anchor is valuable to teams nowadays did you not understand when we discussed Quinton Nelson earlier?  It’s funny that you bring up Leo.  The one knock on Leo was that he was seen as a 3-4 DE, 4-3 DT who wasn’t an exceptional pass rusher, but a very clean prospect who didn’t carry a lot of positional value.

2.  Ten spots is very significant and I already said that if you are going to consider Safety in the first round, it better be a, dominant, ball-hawking, Free Safety like Earl was.  Hamilton had 8 career INTs in 3 years at ND.  Thomas had 8 his sophomore season at Texas.

Do you realize how dumb it would be to draft Jamal Adams 2.0 or were you one of the people screaming to give Jamal a new contract before he went scorched earth on the team?

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15 minutes ago, Untouchable said:

1. Scherff was taken at #6. I’m sure the Redsk…oops, “Commanders” were all kinds of broken up inside over taking him over the illustrious Leonard Williams…

2. Whoa, a whole 10 spots lower in a draft that featured Suh, Trent Williams, Eric Berry (hey, another great safety), Joe Haden, etc.

Do you realize how dumb this sounds just to justify a position?

I’ve already said that I wouldn’t pay the time of day to a dude like Hamilton if this wasn’t such a sh*t draft and we weren’t set to start Ashtyn Davis and Elijah Riley at safety next year, but, pre-free agency, yeah, drafting Kyle Hamilton isn’t the worst thought in the world at the moment.

I really don’t understand why this is such a blasphemous thought to so many.

Is Hamilton even good? Why didn’t he produce in college? Waiting for the sales pitch on him but I’m not getting it. His YouTube stuff looks like a JAG tbh. Not many negative tackles, pass break ups etc. I mean yeah if he runs 4.4 his size is intriguing but I don’t think he will.

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3 minutes ago, Mogglez said:

1.  What part of a long term IOL anchor is valuable to teams nowadays did you not understand when we discussed Quinton Nelson earlier?  It’s funny that you bring up Leo.  The one knock on Leo was that he was seen as a 3-4 DE, 4-3 DT who wasn’t an exceptional pass rusher, but a very clean prospect who didn’t carry a lot of positional value.

2.  Ten spots is very significant and I already said that if you are going to consider Safety in the first round, it better be a, dominant, ball-hawking, Free Safety like Earl was.  Hamilton had 8 career INTs in 3 years at ND.  Thomas had 8 his sophomore season at Texas.

Do you realize how dumb it would be to draft Jamal Adams 2.0 or were you one of the people screaming to give Jamal a new contract before he went scorched earth on the team.

Hey, you’re talking to the guy who was ALL about signing Cousins and drafting Quenton Nelson had we stayed at #6 in 2018.

Problem is…dudes like Ekwonu and Linderbaum aren’t Nelson. They just aren’t. Not even close.

I’m not even remotely convinced that Ekwonu is as good of a prospect as AVT was. Ya know, the guy we just traded up for in the Top 15 less than a year ago? Right after drafting an OT in in the Top 12 the year prior?

But by virtue, once again, of this being such a sh*t draft class, I’m not against drafting a lesser AVT in the Top 5…what does that tell you?

It tells you that this class is poop, plain and simple. We aren’t getting a stud wideout at #4. We aren’t getting a stud EDGE (most likely) at #4. We aren’t getting a generational Kyle Pitts at #4 to solve the neverending TE problems that we’ve had ever since Shuler decided to head to Philly 30 years ago…none of that.

Realistically, we’re walking away with either Ekwonu, Hamilton or Gardner (or God forbid, Stingley) inside the Top 5.

Hamilton is the one I’d least prefer out of those 3 (I’d still prefer him over Stingley, positional value be damned) but it is what it is.

No one is giving up the farm for a Malik Willis or Kenny Pickett. We’re stuck there. Period.

And if we’re stuck there, Hamilton isn’t the end of the world.

 

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45 minutes ago, Mogglez said:

Kyle Hamilton is as good as Derwin James in his dreams.

Well yeah that is a top end comparison for me, if he plays to hype and expectations.

Even then james has 5 ints in three years and missed a lot of one year.

Unless safeties produce gobs of turnovers they are rarely worth being picked high.

And once again the changes to the game make it much tougher to have an ed reed who is free to gamble and make plays.

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6 minutes ago, Untouchable said:

Hey, you’re talking to the guy who was ALL about signing Cousins and drafting Quenton Nelson had we stayed at #6 in 2018.

Problem is…dudes like Ekwonu and Linderbaum aren’t Nelson. They just aren’t. Not even close.

I’m not even remotely convinced that Ekwonu is as good of a prospect as AVT was. Ya know, the guy we just traded up for in the Top 15 less than a year ago? Right after drafting an OT in in the Top 12 the year prior?

But by virtue, once again, of this being such a sh*t draft class, I’m not against drafting a lesser AVT in the Top 5…what does that tell you?

It tells you that this class is poop, plain and simple. We aren’t getting a stud wideout at #4. We aren’t getting a stud EDGE (most likely) at #4. We aren’t getting a generational Kyle Pitts at #4 to solve the neverending TE problems that we’ve had ever since Shuler decided to head to Philly 30 years ago…none of that.

Realistically, we’re walking away with either Ekwonu, Hamilton or Gardner (or God forbid, Stingley) inside the Top 5.

Hamilton is the one I’d least prefer out of those 3 (I’d still prefer him over Stingley, positional value be damned) but it is what it is.

No one is giving up the farm for a Malik Willis or Kenny Pickett. We’re stuck there. Period.

And if we’re stuck there, Hamilton isn’t the end of the world.

 

Very few people are.  I’d argue that they’re close to Scherff though, who is just as worth it.

Ekwonu and Gardner is fine by me.  Especially if Becton busts and you need to move Ekwonu to T at some point in the future.  His versatility is a big reason why I’m a fan of his. Gardner is a good prospect at a premium position.

I don’t think we can trade out of 4.  I absolutely believe we can trade out of 10.

Picking Hamilton over either one of those aforementioned guys is equivalent to taking the pick and setting it on fire.

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5 hours ago, Matt39 said:

Is Hamilton even good? Why didn’t he produce in college? Waiting for the sales pitch on him but I’m not getting it. His YouTube stuff looks like a JAG tbh. Not many negative tackles, pass break ups etc. I mean yeah if he runs 4.4 his size is intriguing but I don’t think he will.

It's literally Taylor Mays all over again with Hamilton. I get a hearty laugh anytime anyone says this kid is going to be a monster fs. His change of direction sucks, he'll be used as a strong safety-linebacker hybrid. Every one of these Hamilton stans is rooting for us to draft another Jamal Adams, and Adams was a straight up better strong safety then Hamilton is, who for some reason sucks at tackling/defending the run despite his size. He's a better coverage guy then Adams, I'll give him that, but he still can't cover slot wrs or any of the speed guys.

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1 hour ago, Mogglez said:

Very few people are.  I’d argue that they’re close to Scherff though, who is just as worth it.

Ekwonu and Gardner is fine by me.  Especially if Becton busts and you need to move Ekwonu to T at some point in the future.  His versatility is a big reason why I’m a fan of his. Gardner is a good prospect at a premium position.

I don’t think we can trade out of 4.  I absolutely believe we can trade out of 10.

Picking Hamilton over either one of those aforementioned guys is equivalent to taking the pick and setting it on fire.

Ekwonu and Gardner is probably my preference in Round 1 as things stand today (assuming that Hutch and Thibs, to a lesser extent, are out of the question).

Don’t take this as Hamilton being my preferred choice at #4, because he certainly isn’t.

But, if the Jets don’t bring in a Marcus Williams, Justin Reid or Quandre Diggs in FA…I think we’d all be kidding ourselves to believe that he wouldn’t be in heavy consideration come draft day.

Outside of generating a consistent rush with your front 4, quality safety play is the most crucial part of this defensive scheme. At least it has historically been over the last decade in defenses that Saleh has been heavily involved with.

JD and Saleh absolutely envisioned Maye and Joyner as the guys manning the backend of the defense going into 2021 with young guys like Davis, Sherwood and Hamsah providing that positional flexibility between S and LB.

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Are we all sleeping on Drake London? If this guy runs a 4.5 or below his stock will soar..... do you pass on him at #4?

I've seen his highlights and his short area quickness after catching the ball is pretty damn impressive for a big man. 

 

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Would you consider packaging #4 and our early 2nd rd pick + 3rd rd pick to move up for Hutchinson? Perhaps for the Lions #2 pick. 

I said it a few years ago - trade up for Bosa. If Hutchinson can make a similar impact, I would do that trade in a second. 

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3 minutes ago, Big_Slick said:

Just heard on GMFB - Peter Schergs(sp) reported that Saleh will not attend the combine because he has 'too much to catch up on'. Douglas and his team are reported to attend.

Interesting...

Wait what. Skipping the player interviews? Crazy. Is this guys house still not done lol 

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47 minutes ago, Barton said:

Are we all sleeping on Drake London? If this guy runs a 4.5 or below his stock will soar..... do you pass on him at #4?

I've seen his highlights and his short area quickness after catching the ball is pretty damn impressive for a big man. 

 

Im a big fan of him, in a better class he's a second rounder all day. He only has 1 year of production and he got injuried. The jets should take a look at Jameson Williams if he falls

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13 minutes ago, Big_Slick said:

Just heard on GMFB - Peter Schergs(sp) reported that Saleh will not attend the combine because he has 'too much to catch up on'. Douglas and his team are reported to attend.

Interesting...

Ok so no defensive players till the third round? Not so bad. 

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I think everyone should consider taking their foot off the gas on Hamilton. Whether or not he's worth a top 10 pick, it's highly unlikely that the jets have him graded so high that they pass on whomever slides to #4.

This team has been without a replacement for John Abraham for nearly 20 years. Seriously. Lawson blew his Achilles and there's a handful of PR'ing studs... It's not gonna be Hamilton. 

Relax. 

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1 hour ago, Barton said:

Are we all sleeping on Drake London? If this guy runs a 4.5 or below his stock will soar..... do you pass on him at #4?

I've seen his highlights and his short area quickness after catching the ball is pretty damn impressive for a big man. 

 

B-I-N-G-O

 

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17 minutes ago, Paradis said:

I think everyone should consider taking their foot off the gas on Hamilton. Whether or not he's worth a top 10 pick, it's highly unlikely that the jets have him graded so high that they pass on whomever slides to #4.

This team has been without a replacement for John Abraham for nearly 20 years. Seriously. Lawson blew his Achilles and there's a handful of PR'ing studs... It's not gonna be Hamilton. 

Relax. 

The Jets will sign Justin Reid in two weeks and all of this will be moot anyway.

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2 hours ago, Barton said:

Would you consider packaging #4 and our early 2nd rd pick + 3rd rd pick to move up for Hutchinson? Perhaps for the Lions #2 pick. 

I said it a few years ago - trade up for Bosa. If Hutchinson can make a similar impact, I would do that trade in a second. 

No, I just dont think we are there yet.  We have too many holes and there are many edge rushers in this draft. All indications are that Hutch is no Bosa (for what its worth)

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On 2/28/2022 at 9:40 AM, Augustiniak said:

Reed, Lott and palomolu are 3 of the best safeties ever.  After these guys there’s a real big drop off.  Unless you get a HOF safety that safety you draft won’t help you as much as a pretty good OL.

That he can help more than a top OL isnt the point, the point is S isnt a total waste that we can see helping teams to win SBs.  I remember the dramatic difference between the Colts D with Sanders and without.  

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On 2/28/2022 at 6:07 PM, Beerfish said:

That is totally not how he was portrayed before the draft.  He was portrayed in a similar fashion to hamilton before the draft. A do it all, play maker safety.  Which we all know was not correct.

The worry with hamilton is the same as it should have been with adams.  How much do you have to compromise your defense to make a safety a star player worthy of #4 overall.

 My contention is a talented safety is never going to be as good a difference maker and move the needle like a FQB can. 

You need to focus on the development and improvement of a young ZW.  Cause Jets have never had a FQB that sustained a high level of play for like 12+ years.  That's the needle mover Jets have been lacking.  Having a QB that can lead the team into multiple playoff appearances.  And in one or two of them...land Jets in the Supe to compete for a Lombardi Trophy before he's done. 

2022 season is all about ZW.  So use #4-10 for Edge-OL-WR...or trade down if possible.  #34 and 38...TE-OL-Edge-WR. 

Sign a safety in FA and draft one in rounds 3-5. 

No FQB...no trophies.  

 

 

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