Pre-Combine Rankings

[sec101row23]

2 minutes ago, section314 said:

He sure is. I will be shocked if we don't come away with 2 edge guys in this draft. They seem to be everywhere.

It’s the best and deepest position group in this draft.   It’s also a huge need at a valuable position.   If you are going to double dip on a position this year, it would be wise to go edge.   

[bla bla bla]

59 minutes ago, doitny said:

so lets stop with this, Icky is the only guy " WORTHY" of the 4th pick. according to this there are 8th other guys who should go before him.

There are actually only 5 players worthy of #4 ahead of him (assuming picks 1, 2, and 3 are above his ranking)

I don't think anyone is saying Icky is the ONLY one worthy of #4. I think most people would say he solves a position of need while providing flexibility to be patient with your former #11 overall pick and that combination makes him a higher priority than other players listed ahead of him.

Having #10 makes Icky look more attractive IMO because we can still land a premium player and a premium position of need at 10. Could also look at it by taking the premium player at 4 like Sauce, Edge, or Hamilton and then snagging Kenyon Green at 10.

There are so many ways to approach this I'd hope no one is deadlocked on Ekwonu.

[Paradis]

41 minutes ago, ZachEY said:

He had 1 TD

Pitts had 68 receptions, and 1,026 yards - good for 2nd all time in rookie TE history, playing for a team that had Joe Bag of Donuts playing at WR all year. When the last time the Jets had a 1000 yard receiver let alone a TE

walk away from this one. 

[Titan24]

My 2 favorite players in this draft 

CB Ahmad Gardner, LB Nakobe Dean 

[BigRy56]

I am fully prepared for Hamilton at 4

[JoJoTownsell1]

22 minutes ago, ZachEY said:

He had 1 TD

He also had 1k yards receiving in a putrid offense and barring injury will be a top 2/3 Tight End for the next 5-7 years. 

Regardless, elite TEs are a premium in the NFL. If you asked any NFL team if they rather have Travis Kelce/Kittle/Andrews/Pitts/Waller or their equivalent at Safety every single one would take the pass catching Tight End. 

[WhartonJet]

22 minutes ago, varjet said:

My draft board is Hutchinson, Thib, Ekwenu, Hamilton.  I don’t know who is after that.  

Marcus Williams will get signed by the Jets, or someone else, for a lot of money.  If Hamilton can be that good, and the three players above him are not there, I can see the Hamilton pick working out.  That is a 4 year deal, plus an option, plus a franchise.   That can be a SB or two.  After that, he can sign somewhere else.  

If Hamilton is that good, I don’t get the point of not picking him to pick Karlaftis, or Neal, or Cross.   The bigger issue is whether Hamilton is that good.  Some like Blewett don’t think he is.   He is not a great RB tackler.  This defense needs that.   No one is saying that we should draft Hamilton over a great WR, or EDGE.  Maybe Sauce is the pick at 4.  That is a higher value position.   He can be a surprise pick at 4 like Denzel Ward was.  

But yes, Kyle Pitts defied positional importance and was a TE picked at 4 last year.  How is that pick redrafting?  I think at best he is 6.  

 

Great post, I have the same board 1-4.  But I am really hoping for one of Hutchinson, Thibs, or Ekwonu.  If those 3 players were off the board, I would actively look to trade down even if it means taking lesser value.  If I had to stick and pick, it would be Hamilton.  

[Rhg1084]

Consensus big board 

[Matt39]

9 minutes ago, BigRy56 said:

I am fully prepared for Hamilton at 4

Out of curiosity, why do you have Hamilton ranked ahead of Devin Lloyd?

[Rhg1084]

7 minutes ago, Rhg1084 said:

Consensus big board 

Karlaftis falling down the rankings 

[mrcoops]

53 minutes ago, section314 said:

Interesting......Karlaftis 6.37, just ahead of Mafe 6.35 and Ebiketie 6.34  Also, Otton just a smidge ahead of McBride. 

Otton is really being slept on by fans. He's a complete TE who can block and catch. If someone gets him in the 3rd, it's a bargain.

[Untouchable]

32 minutes ago, BigRy56 said:

I am fully prepared for Hamilton at 4

We’ll see how things shake out in FA.

But unless the Jets spend big on a Marcus Williams or Justin Reid…he’s absolutely in play at #4, no matter how much some may hate it.

Frankly, as long as Hutchinson isn’t still on the board, I have no issues with Hamilton.

[Matt39]

3 minutes ago, Untouchable said:

We’ll see how things shake out in FA.

But unless the Jets spend big on a Marcus Williams or Justin Reid…he’s absolutely in play at #4, no matter how much some may hate it.

Why though? Mediocre college production . What am I missing? He looks slow on “tape” too. A lot of Kerry Rhodes in his game.

[sec101row23]

1 minute ago, Matt39 said:

Why though? Mediocre college production . What am I missing? He looks slow on “tape” too. A lot of Kerry Rhodes in his game.

What’s funny about Hamilton is that when I watch clips of him supposedly making “special” plays, they actually aren’t special.   They show him cover a lot of ground but most of the time the QB has held the ball too long, telegraphed the pass and throw it with little velocity.  They aren’t typical NFL plays.   For him to be truly special he needs to be elite in coverage and I don’t see that.  

[Untouchable]

Just now, Matt39 said:

Why though? Mediocre college production . What am I missing? He looks slow on “tape” too.

He’s a damn good prospect, but he isn’t the next Ed Reed or Sean Taylor.

He’s more like a suped up Justin Simmons.

He’s good against the run, has great range on the backend, can be used some in the slot, and he checks every intangible box imaginable.

He very much fits the criteria of what Saleh and Douglas have said they want the core of the team to be made up of.

Next to Hutchinson, he’s the best overall player in the draft IMO.

He may never be a consistent all-pro, but I have little doubt that he’ll be a damn good player and a cornerstone piece on defense for the next decade.

[Matt39]

1 minute ago, Untouchable said:

He’s a damn good prospect, but he isn’t the next Ed Reed or Sean Taylor.

He’s more like a suped up Justin Simmons.

He’s good against the run, has great range on the backend, can be used some in the slot, and he checks every intangible box imaginable.

He very much fits the criteria of what Saleh and Douglas have said they want the core of the team to be made up of.

Next to Hutchinson, he’s the best overall player in the draft IMO.

He may never be a consistent all-pro, but I have little doubt that he’ll be a damn good player and a cornerstone piece on defense for the next decade.

Ok. That’s not a top 5 pick though. I don’t see Hamilton as any sort of impact guy in the league, especially since he wasn’t one in college. Not many negative tackles, not many picks, pick 6’s, special teams plays etc. I’d rather either LB (Dean or Lloyd) over Hamilton. At least you know you’ll get some immediate impact. 

[Untouchable]

11 minutes ago, Matt39 said:

Ok. That’s not a top 5 pick though. I don’t see Hamilton as any sort of impact guy in the league, especially since he wasn’t one in college. Not many negative tackles, not many picks, pick 6’s, special teams plays etc. I’d rather either LB (Dean or Lloyd) over Hamilton. At least you know you’ll get some immediate impact. 

This could be the weakest draft in nearly a decade.

If there was another EDGE on Hutchinson’s level, I’d take him at #4. But I don’t think there is one, not even Thibodeaux.

If there was a Jamar Chase or Kyle Pitts in this class, I’d take them at #4. But there isn’t.

Like it or not, dudes like Hamilton and Ekwonu, even though they don’t play “premium” positions might realistically be our best options in the Top 5.

No way I’d take Dean or Floyd over Hamilton. Neither of those dudes is a Micah Parsons. And frankly, Dean scares the sh*t out of me after the Darron Lee debacle. I get that you don’t want 250 lb thumpers in this scheme, but most undersized, 215-220 LB’s get thrown around like ragdolls in the NFL.

[Doggin94it]

This analysis on Hutchinson is damning:

Quote

Defensive end prospect with a can't-miss combination of football character, skill and physical traits who is more likely to contend for occasional Pro Bowls than become an All-Pro playmaker. 

 

[Matt39]

3 minutes ago, Untouchable said:

This could be the weakest draft in nearly a decade.

If there was another EDGE on Hutchinson’s level, I’d take him at #4. But I don’t think there is one, not even Thibodeaux.

If there was a Jamar Chase or Kyle Pitts in this class, I’d take them at #4. But there isn’t.

Like it or not, dudes like Hamilton and Ekwonu, even though they don’t play “premium” positions might realistically be our best options in the Top 5.

No way I’d take Dean or Floyd over Hamilton. Neither of those dudes is a Micah Parsons. And frankly, Dean scares the sh*t out of me after the Darron Lee debacle. I get that you don’t want 250 lb thumpers in this scheme, but most undersized, 215-220 LB’s get thrown around like ragdolls in the NFL.

Drafts like 2022 are the reasons you need to make sure the people in charge aren’t mailing it in when draft classes have talent all over (2020). 

Maybe this class is better than it looks, but the 2020 debacle killed Douglas. 
 

[sec101row23]

9 minutes ago, Doggin94it said:

This analysis on Hutchinson is damning:

 

That’s not really damning analysis.   It’s realistic expectations.  Fans expectations of players drafted in the top 10 are dramatically inflated and different than what NFL GMs are.   Not every top 10 player has perennial All-Pro expectations,  in fact few do.   

[doitny]

53 minutes ago, bla bla bla said:

There are actually only 5 players worthy of #4 ahead of him (assuming picks 1, 2, and 3 are above his ranking)

I don't think anyone is saying Icky is the ONLY one worthy of #4. I think most people would say he solves a position of need while providing flexibility to be patient with your former #11 overall pick and that combination makes him a higher priority than other players listed ahead of him.

Having #10 makes Icky look more attractive IMO because we can still land a premium player and a premium position of need at 10. Could also look at it by taking the premium player at 4 like Sauce, Edge, or Hamilton and then snagging Kenyon Green at 10.

There are so many ways to approach this I'd hope no one is deadlocked on Ekwonu.

according to this list there are 8 not counting the Center. if Ekwonu is such a great athlete like people say then im assuming there counting for that in these rating. which should mean the 8 guys ahead of him are better athletes.

and there is a 0.18 difference between Ekwonu and the guy ahead of him. thats a nice drop indicating that Ekwonu is not part of the top end of the draft. 

i dont think we have the luxury of picking a guy " in case " Becton is not good. your going to play a Tackle at Guard for 2-3 years assuming Fant gets a extension which he should. 

and if you want to talk about flexibility than i think we can all say that if we do pick OL in rd 1 this year, we cannot under any circumstance pick if for a 4th year in a row next year. so no matter how good that OL is starring us in the face next year we have to draft someone else. plus we will know better by next year what Becton is, and if he needs to be replaced. 

at least we will know in 3 weeks when FA starts. if JD gets a starting RG then the pick wont be a OL in rd 1.

[David Harris]

I can't remember seeing a list of prospects with less elite grades at the top or as many similarly ranked guys in the top 50.  

Few elite guys but solid depth overall.

[Doggin94it]

21 minutes ago, sec101row23 said:

That’s not really damning analysis.   It’s realistic expectations.  Fans expectations of players drafted in the top 10 are dramatically inflated and different than what NFL GMs are.   Not every top 10 player has perennial All-Pro expectations,  in fact few do.   

You should expect more from a potential top 3 pick than "contend for occasional pro bowls"

[GreenReaper]

2 hours ago, TheNuuFaaolaExperience said:

Taking Hamilton is a safe pick in the same way that Leonard Williams and Quinnen Williams were safe picks. You'll be getting a quality starter who cements a position for the length of their contract. Hamilton will end up being a middle of the pack safety who doesn't move the needle forward or backward.

No more safe picks. Premium position needle movers only with the high picks.

Though Hamilton is a high end athlete for the safety position.  He still needs coaching and refinement of technique.  No guarantee he's a perennial PB player.  Even then...no guarantee he makes enough a difference and moves the needle.

Zach Wilson with his combination of special arm talent and athletic-mobility,  is probably the most talented QB Jets have drafted since Namath. 

So should Jets focus their high draft capital in premium positions to help ZW flourish into a successful FQB?  Or draft Hamilton?  Sure...take an Edge at #4 or 10.  But use the other top 10 pick to help fortify the tools ZW needs to put points on the board.

Who's more important for moving the needle for the NYJ?  A quality safety or a FQB? 

If Jets don't primarily focus their 2022 offseason into furthering the development of ZW.  By upgrading the OL and weapons around him.  Forget about Jets competing for a Lombardi Trophy anytime in the near future. 

No FQB...no trophies.   

    

 

[sec101row23]

23 minutes ago, Doggin94it said:

You should expect more from a potential top 3 pick than "contend for occasional pro bowls"

Again, fans have unrealistic expectations.  

[Rhg1084]

2 hours ago, ZachEY said:

He had 1 TD

He also averaged over 15 yards a catch and is the best right end in the league 

[The Crusher]

3 hours ago, KRL said:

They rave about Hamilton and have him the #1 prospect

 

That's because they are trying to trick us.

[ZachEY]

2 hours ago, Paradis said:

Pitts had 68 receptions, and 1,026 yards - good for 2nd all time in rookie TE history, playing for a team that had Joe Bag of Donuts playing at WR all year. When the last time the Jets had a 1000 yard receiver let alone a TE

walk away from this one. 

Being good doesn't mean being the best pick at #4.  And, it doesn't make Kyle Hamilton a good pick either.  Positional value matters, like it or not.

[ZachEY]

2 hours ago, JoJoTownsell1 said:

He also had 1k yards receiving in a putrid offense and barring injury will be a top 2/3 Tight End for the next 5-7 years. 

Regardless, elite TEs are a premium in the NFL. If you asked any NFL team if they rather have Travis Kelce/Kittle/Andrews/Pitts/Waller or their equivalent at Safety every single one would take the pass catching Tight End. 

I agree.  I'd take the TE over the safety.

But, at this point, saying he's transcendent or some sh*t doesn't hold water.

[JohnnyLV]

2 hours ago, Beerfish said:

This draft stinks talent wise in the top 10

I am not sure the entire draft has a Top 5 type of RD1 prospect in this draft all. Even more usually there are around 10-12 players with "true" 1st round grades. I am not sure there will even be one. If ever there was a draft to trade back and trade back again this is it.

[JohnnyLV]

4 minutes ago, ZachEY said:

I agree.  I'd take the TE over the safety.

But, at this point, saying he's transcendent or some sh*t doesn't hold water.

If Hamilton is like an Ed Reed Polamalu level player he is worth the pick, otherwise no,

[ZachEY]

19 minutes ago, Rhg1084 said:

He also averaged over 15 yards a catch and is the best right end in the league 

Outside of your opinion, is there any metric by which to support this?

[HawkeyeJet]

3 hours ago, Rhg1084 said:

Hamilton is a similar prospect to Kyle Pitts was last year. The guy is just so good that you don’t worry about “positional value”. 

I think a lot of Hamilton’s value has to do with how a modern defense is built.  Not to imply that the typical Edge and CB spots aren’t still “premium” but I think teams value strength “up the middle” more so than in the past.  And I think fans in general still view safety responsibilities as if it is still 1997, but in reality safer has become a very important position.  Much more so than 20 years ago.

[Rhg1084]

5 minutes ago, ZachEY said:

Outside of your opinion, is there any metric by which to support this?

Highest yards per reception amongst all tight ends, not to mention he’s just physically the fastest and most gifted in the game. I think if GMs were doing a draft he’d be the first one off the board. Why? Who do you think is better than him? 

[Larz]

Only value to this list honestly is to compare it to the post combine rankings 

Then the QBs will make a move after their pro days. 
 

then a guy gets on the hype train and shoots up the board