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Scathing and sad article in today's star ledger on Manfred and Baseball by Bob Klapisch


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I have three sons, 25 and 28 years old.

One doesnt love baseball but goes to games, the other loves baseball like he loves football and the third is a baseball guy, excelled at it when he played and knows the game, teams, players etc inside out.

The idea that baseball is dead only comes from those who dont like the game.  You probably could go to a Mets or Yankees forum and get similar remarks about football

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1 hour ago, shawn306 said:

Baseball needs to get back to its roots. The reason baseball is so boring right now 

1) The amount of time between pitches. Pitchers walking off the mound, guys stepping out of the batters box, adjusting gloves, helmets, jock straps, you can't be going seconds between pitches. The pitch clock has been in the minor leagues for a couple of years now so a decent amount of these guys are used to it already.

2) Strikeout/HR/Walk - pretty much now what you see in baseball. Blame on it on Analytics, blame it on the thinking of pulling everything, exit veloclity, Launch angle, whatever. The thinking in baseball has to change that it is ok to go and steal a base, lay down a bunt. play hit and run. hit the ball where they a'int as Wee Willie Keeler used to say. Pitchers now are throwing as hard as they can instead for as long as they can instead of really pitching. Hitting corners, up in the strike zone, down, in, out. Another big reason why so many pitchers are getting hurt and missing years because of Tommy John Surgery. 

3) Let the managers manage - Please I am tired of the managers basically being puppets for the Front office putting out the lineups that their analytics department thinks is the best lineup. Can you imagine a Billy Martin, Earl Weaver, Sparky Anderson having to sit in a meeting with some analytic folks while they tell them what lineup he should be put out there ? 

4) I know this won't happen because of money but go back to limiting playoff teams to the three division winners in each league and one wild card. There are too many teams in the post season. 

5) Institute a "Salary Floor". Make teams like the Marlins, Royals, Rays, spend some money instead of pocketing all the cash from the richer teams. If you can't afford 120 million as a minimum Salary floor then those owners should not be owning a MLB team.

Just get back to the basics. I saw a thing on MLB network this morning stating that the average time of a MLB game in 1981 was like 2 hours and 30 minutes. Now it is around 3 hours and 15 minutes. Wayyyyy too long

Great list... I think analytics is here to stay, but at least things like a pitch clock could move games along faster. 

People talk about eliminating the shift, when the problem is that too many guys cant hit the other way, they pull everything.

Unfortunately for #4, they're going the opposite direction, with at least 12 playoff teams according to the last proposals.

#5, a salary floor would be ideal. The problem there is that 1/3 of the owners, with sub $90M payrolls, are able to hold the rest of the owners hostage somehow.  Any changes to the CBA needs 23 owners or more to vote yes. That means 8 teams can hold the other 22 hostage.

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5 minutes ago, Lith said:

Agreed.  I have two adult kids.  Both enjoy going to ball games with me.  Nothing better than spending  a few hours with either my son or daughter, on a summer evening, watching a ball game and chatting. Maybe about the game, maybe about life, maybe just chatting about nothing.  I look forward to a few of those visits to the ballpark every year. 

And MLB, and the players are not going to ruin those days for me, no matter how this turns out.

 

I had that experience last weekend when I took my oldest grandchild for an hour long walk He is 7 and old enough now where we can start talking about different kinds of things. It was just wonderful and made me think that even though I've done a bunch of stupid things in life, that maybe I also did a couple of good ones too.?

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26 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

I have three sons, 25 and 28 years old.

One doesnt love baseball but goes to games, the other loves baseball like he loves football and the third is a baseball guy, excelled at it when he played and knows the game, teams, players etc inside out.

The idea that baseball is dead only comes from those who dont like the game.  You probably could go to a Mets or Yankees forum and get similar remarks about football

Twins?

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1 hour ago, CSNY said:

Totally disagree. You are a Major League Baseball played you should be able to hit the ball against the shift. Change the mindset of having to hit a 500 foot 5 run homer every dam at bat.
when you go out there with the mindset of swinging from your heels you strike out more often than not which is a predetermined fate 
Hit the ball run hard to first cause you never know if there will be an error and walla your on base instead of carrying your bat to the dugout 

The thing is that they are teaching young players to ignite the shift and let it rip with launch angle and all that crap. I still agree they shouldn’t outlaw the shift, but the reason it works is because they aren’t properly teaching these players to beat it. They say the numbers will be better re: home run chances if you lift the ball over the shift. They basically dgaf. 

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58 minutes ago, section314 said:

I had that experience last weekend when I took my oldest grandchild for an hour long walk He is 7 and old enough now where we can start talking about different kinds of things. It was just wonderful and made me think that even though I've done a bunch of stupid things in life, that maybe I also did a couple of good ones too.?

I am not quite there yet.  Only grandchild is 16 months.  My wife and I had our first weekend taking care of the little guy without his parents around.  I got reacquainted with dirty diapers after a 25 year hiatus; but no long walks talking about stuff with him just yet. 

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5 minutes ago, Wit said:

The thing is that they are teaching young players to ignite the shift and let it rip with launch angle and all that crap. I still agree they shouldn’t outlaw the shift, but the reason it works is because they aren’t properly teaching these players to beat it. They say the numbers will be better re: home run chances if you lift the ball over the shift. They basically dgaf. 

To me if doesn’t make a dam bit of sense and that’s really the shame of it all that it’s not even being taught. Baseball is a simple game see ball hit ball. Spare me the launch angle exit velocity bullshot. Give me a 92 hopper down the line that barely makes it to where they store the infield tarps which goes for a double versus a 120 mph exit velocity that gets caught because half the defense is there. It’s basic fundamental baseball that has been proven to be successful year after year after year 

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3 hours ago, CSNY said:

I read that part of the negotiations on a new CBA concerns the elimination of the shift which is baffling if you don’t like the shift adjust your way of hitting. In the immortal words of  Yogi “ hit ‘em where they ain’t”. Instead of arguing about a dam shift negotiate areas of major concern to get the players back on the field 

Good post, but that was Wee Willie Keeler -- the hit em where they ain't comment.  HOFer who hit over .400 in the 1890s by spreading his hands, choking up on the bat and slapping the ball to open spots on the field.

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5 hours ago, RoadFan said:

Baseball is dying and has been for a while.  It is excruciatingly boring.   
 

Millennials and Gen Z have zero interest outside of a handful of cities like Boston, Chicago, St. Louis…

I am Gen X and I can’t name more than 3 players in MLB.  I am dead serious, btw.  
 

 

So true. I live in CT and my kids are 17 and 20. They have no interest in watching a game and never have. They don't even want to check out a game at Yankee Stadium, Fenway or Citi Field. AND, they are both excellent athletes - one plays #1 on his college tennis team and the other is going to college next year and will be playing on the tennis team in a very tough conference. They watch NFL, NBA - but tennis is the top sport in our family. My oldest son is really into the NFL and likes the Jets. Thankfully, he's also a Lakers fan with me and we recently enjoyed a championship together. A Jets Super Bowl win would be even more epic for us.

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I like baseball. My 8 year old son loves it. 

What I don't like are the costs passed onto fans. Supply/demand. NYC. I get it. And as a Jets season ticket holder willing to pay $100+ per ticket to see my team, maybe it seems a little hypocritical.  I don't know. But something doesn't sit well with me having to pay $100+ per ticket for mediocre seats to see game 96 in a 162 game season.  I'll take my kid two or three times for the experience, but if it weren't for him, I'm not sure when I'd see another game at the stadium. 

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1 hour ago, Warfish said:

Just curious, do any of you "Baseball is boring" guys watch Golf?

Baseball will always be boring to those with low intelligence and/or short attention spans.

The game, like every other, has evolved with bigger, stronger, faster athletes and stronger metrics. The league has failed miserably to adjust in kind. The shift should be banned immediately, for example. The "just hit it where they aren't" folks have absolutely no idea what they are talking about. Yogi Berra wasn't facing defenses that had 4 outfielders, truly understood tendencies on a pitch-by-pitch basis or pitchers that live in the high 90's, and rarely saw the same pitcher more than twice in a game.

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I think the baseball is dying is a myth amongst us 30-50 year olds

Yourh baseball is booming in nj, there’s 20+ facilities within a half hour of my house, with multiple new ones opening up every year 

kids aren’t playing football and are playing year round baseball, basketball, and soccer instead 

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Personally, I love baseball, I love going to games, even though I can only afford to go to a game or two a year, I do fantasy baseball with friends, and Im in that late 40s demographic, grew up going to Mets games with my dad in the 80's.  I have a 20 yr old nephew who loves baseball too, but his dad is a baseball fan as well, so that may contribute to it. 

At the same time, I do see how there are definite issues with the speed and excitement of the game. 

But to say baseball is dying - the Braves parent company just released earnings and they made a bundle of cash last season. There are plenty of teams making money. MLB is the only league I believe that doesnt fully reveal their earnings I believe, which is telling?

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7 hours ago, RoadFan said:

 

I am Gen X and I can’t name more than 3 players in MLB.  I am dead serious, btw.  
 

 

I am Gen X and you are dead wrong!

Mike Pagliarulo

Cecilio Guante

Matt Nokes

Bobby Meachum

That's FOUR.

[drops mike]

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3 hours ago, Jet Nut said:

The idea that baseball is dead only comes from those who dont like the game.  You probably could go to a Mets or Yankees forum and get similar remarks about football

Maybe you could, but you could also go to reddit and find a cure for cancer. Some remarks on the internet aren't to be taken seriously.  -

(The NFL TV ratings are astronomical - the league basically prints money. The same can't be said for major league baseball)

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2 hours ago, Lith said:

Good post, but that was Wee Willie Keeler -- the hit em where they ain't comment.  HOFer who hit over .400 in the 1890s by spreading his hands, choking up on the bat and slapping the ball to open spots on the field.

Wasn’t sure who said it but it sounded like something Yogi would say. So at decision time when I came to the fork in the road I took it 

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As far as “the kids”… baseball is not dying, ?

More young boys and girls are playing baseball (and softball) than play youth football.

If there’s a sport that has to worry about losing those young people, it’s football. Parents don’t want their kids playing.

If it weren’t for fantasy leagues and now legalized gambling, the NFL wouldn’t be nearly as popular as it is.

Growing sports amongst kids… 1. soccer 2. basketball 3. baseball/softball 4. lacrosse

I think tackle football is losing ground to all of them at the youth level.

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1 hour ago, BeaconJet said:

Personally, I love baseball, I love going to games, even though I can only afford to go to a game or two a year, I do fantasy baseball with friends, and Im in that late 40s demographic, grew up going to Mets games with my dad in the 80's.  I have a 20 yr old nephew who loves baseball too, but his dad is a baseball fan as well, so that may contribute to it. 

At the same time, I do see how there are definite issues with the speed and excitement of the game. 

But to say baseball is dying - the Braves parent company just released earnings and they made a bundle of cash last season. There are plenty of teams making money. MLB is the only league I believe that doesnt fully reveal their earnings I believe, which is telling?

I am going to preface this by saying I hate, I mean really HATE, baseball.  My opinions are biased.  I abhor listening to local sports radio in SW Florida discuss baseball as if it matters. 

Could that large income you reference have anything to do with the absurd number of games in a season?  Double the NBA and NHL… 
 

“Speed and excitement” are not words I would choose to use in a sentence with baseball.   
 

And as for Atlanta, Atlanta FC’s average attendance was 47K per game.  The Braves average was 29K… much higher than the league average which was 19K. I can’t even believe it is that high living an hour from Tampa/St. Pete, which supposedly has a good team, and barely outdraws a typical Florida High School football game.
 

 I guarantee the gap between FC and the Braves will continue to grow over the next decade.
 
Just wait until professional lacrosse becomes a thing…

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48 minutes ago, Green Ghost said:

As far as “the kids”… baseball is not dying, ?

More young boys and girls are playing baseball (and softball) than play youth football.

If there’s a sport that has to worry about losing those young people, it’s football. Parents don’t want their kids playing.

If it weren’t for fantasy leagues and now legalized gambling, the NFL wouldn’t be nearly as popular as it is.

Growing sports amongst kids… 1. soccer 2. basketball 3. baseball/softball 4. lacrosse

I think tackle football is losing ground to all of them at the youth level.

I only know one person that watches baseball.  One.  I am from the generation where we all collected the ‘87 Topps and ‘88 Donruss baseball cards.  
 

One. Person.  It’s dying…

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4 hours ago, Jet Nut said:

I have three sons, 25 and 28 years old.

One doesnt love baseball but goes to games, the other loves baseball like he loves football and the third is a baseball guy, excelled at it when he played and knows the game, teams, players etc inside out.

The idea that baseball is dead only comes from those who dont like the game.  You probably could go to a Mets or Yankees forum and get similar remarks about football

This is so wrong.
 

 I know it is dying because there is only one person that I know watches baseball… and I know plenty of sports fans.  

 

Somebody that hates futbol (a/k/a soccer) can acknowledge that it is growing.   Just like somebody that hates baseball can acknowledge it is dying…

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