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Sounds like Berrios will test the market


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15 hours ago, Dcat said:

I'd lay money that if Berrios signed with the Jets now, the same people complaining that we didn't offer him enough, would be whining about Jets always overpaying for overrated free agents.  

It's the same here every off-season, isn't it?

 

yep...

damned-damned-if-you-do-if-you-dont-cmon-cmon-4671473.png

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18 hours ago, heymangold said:

if the Jets feel like it's fair, it's most likely not too high an offer.  i won't be too torn up about it if he leaves.

we keep letting players who play well for us go. its not a recipe for success

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17 hours ago, mrcoops said:

He's a beast for my Madden franchise though. Uncoverable from the slot, and fantastic on returns. I locked him in for 5 years at $4M a year, genius negotiator that I am.

One day, the Braxton Berrios type of player will no longer be on your Madden franchise. :D  

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20 hours ago, Warfish said:

You mean getting paid alot more money on a team that is alot more competitive than the moribund Jets?

That'll surely teach him. :-k

How do you know he’ll get a lot more money on the open market or that the offer will come from a lot more competitive?  Football can change quickly.  You have the Jets offer?

Id be that he doesn’t think of the team as moribund.  It’s been said he’s great friends with Wilson, may want to be here for the hopeful turnaround.  

‘Besides players willing to move go for the money.  Going where you think the grass is greener and you just might wind up like Jamal and the Seahawks.  
 

Just like a young team can turn it at around and become competitive, competitive teams can become bottom teams quickly.  

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7 hours ago, johnnysd said:

Jets lose their minds over the concept a paying a valuable team member a million or 2 more than the number they think is fair but have no issue throwing $20 million at declining WRs like Cooper and Robinson.

Based on what exactly?

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10 hours ago, kevinc855 said:

AKA we gotta nickel and dime the guy over a million and he leaves for another team

This team.....

How much did we offer?  
Tell us 

 

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20 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

How do you know he’ll get a lot more money on the open market or that the offer will come from a lot more competitive?  Football can change quickly.  You have the Jets offer?

Id be that he doesn’t think of the team as moribund.  It’s been said he’s great friends with Wilson, may want to be here for the hopeful turnaround.  

‘Besides players willing to move go for the money.  Going where you think the grass is greener and you just might wind up like Jamal and the Seahawks.  
 

Just like a young team can turn it at around and become competitive, competitive teams can become bottom teams quickly.  

A player like Barrios needs to make his move now. His value may never be higher than it is this offseason. ST and gadget players which is what Barrios is normally don't have long careers. The days of Steve Tasker is over. He will go to the team that gives him the best deal. And as far as Adams, he is laughing  all the way to the bank. I doubt he gives a crap about rebuilding now that he is yhe highest paid S in the league.

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7 minutes ago, More Cowbell said:

A player like Barrios needs to make his move now. His value may never be higher than it is this offseason. ST and gadget players which is what Barrios is normally don't have long careers. The days of Steve Tasker is over. He will go to the team that gives him the best deal. And as far as Adams, he is laughing  all the way to the bank. I doubt he gives a crap about rebuilding now that he is yhe highest paid S in the league.

It’s not just Adams, it’s meant as an example to all those who believe no Jet wants to be here, somewhere, anywhere else is better. 
‘I have no idea what the Jets offered, no one does but immediately fans scream low ball offer.   For all we know the Jets made him an offer no other team will march, that no other team values that gadget and ST player like the Jets do.  Or they have a go get a better offer and then bring it back to us deal.  Who knows, no one is a FA yet.  

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21 hours ago, Irish Jet said:

He will be a career JAG unless he plays for Belichick where he'll turn into a pro-bowler.

Either way he's a nice player but not one I'd lose sleep over losing. Very overrated on here.

I fear he goes to Buffalo to replace Beasley who’s on his way out. He’d catch 80 balls a year in Buff. 

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11 hours ago, kevinc855 said:

Yes and when will we realize field position for a young QB is an important thing. 

I will take starting at the 35 over the 25

and? i never said he isn't important. i said i wouldn't overpay to keep him. there is a difference. We seem to have done ok without Andre Roberts...

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19 hours ago, Fantasy Island said:

Joe Douglas is just getting started.  He will fail in FA, just as he has in the past two years and the cherry on top will be Kyle Hamilton at 4.

JD is Idzik 2.0

Oh brother.....

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32 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

It’s not just Adams, it’s meant as an example to all those who believe no Jet wants to be here, somewhere, anywhere else is better. 
‘I have no idea what the Jets offered, no one does but immediately fans scream low ball offer.   For all we know the Jets made him an offer no other team will march, that no other team values that gadget and ST player like the Jets do.  Or they have a go get a better offer and then bring it back to us deal.  Who knows, no one is a FA yet.  

I think Douglas has the same philosophy as Idzik. Has a number on what a player is worth, and won't budge from that number. Much better talent evaluator. His view on money, and how to spend it, disturbs me at times.

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2 minutes ago, genot said:

I think Douglas has the same philosophy as Idzik. Has a number on what a player is worth, and won't budge from that number. Much better talent evaluator. His view on money, and how to spend it, disturbs me at times.

I think every GM tries to go low and every player tries to go higher.  
Nature of FA

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11 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

I think every GM tries to go low and every player tries to go higher.  
Nature of FA

Remember when Idzik decided to let Austin Howard go. Signed Breno. It was a disaster. Over a million dollars.

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Berrios and quite honestly any FA comes down to trusting the GM and his staff to do the right thing both personally and financially for the team.

As fans - we see a player on the field - we do not see all the other factors that go into these decisions.

For me and based on his track record I trust JD will handle this properly. That probably just set off a bunch of you and your saying how stupid this guy is - but if you truly look at JD since he has been here - you would have to grade him somewhere in the average to slightly above average range in decision making and result.

Some will answer that with 4 wins - the result is he stinks but objectively with the youth and inexperience of this team - you simply can't judge it solely on wins. I do believe however, that changes this season - he can't survive another 4 win season. There has to be improvement.

We simply have to trust him and the staff that they are on the correct track.

As far as Berrios - I think he is a good fit for this team and would like him back - but I have to trust the GM to only do that if it is in the best interest of the team assuming Berrios wants to be here at the financial package JD believes is manageable.

  

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22 hours ago, shuler82 said:

Do you blame Berrios for wanting to test the market when his value is probably at an all time high, and this might be his one chance to cash in?

Do you blame the Jets for presenting a fair offer - acknowledged as such from Berrios own camp? 

Not going to fault Berrios if he walks. Not going to fault JD if he's set a price tag on Berrios that he will not go over.  But JD needs to have a solid contingency plan in place if we end up losing him. 

HOW DARE YOU WITH THIS AGGRESSIVELY REASONABLE TAKE

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4 hours ago, neckdemon said:

we keep letting players who play well for us go. its not a recipe for success

If davis, Cole and Moore weren’t hurt, Berrios wouldn’t have even been on the field.  While I was extremely happy with his production, it’s not sustainable as a WR.  He could probably still be a contributor on ST, I remember when everyone was all upset when Andre Robert’s wasn’t resigned.  I’d bring Berrios back but 6M is prob my max.

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38 minutes ago, ZachEY said:

HOW DARE YOU WITH THIS AGGRESSIVELY REASONABLE TAKE

The thing missing from the take is the elephant in the room:

Douglas had all the time in the world to lock up a player he's supposed to know about from his coaches, and Berrios would've jumped at a $3-4MM/year extension in the early fall, or even in August when his only guaranteed season would've been the 2021 season coming up & he was lower on the depth chart, knowing Crowder & Cole were UFAs after the current season and that Crowder was always leaving after getting the squeeze put on him so late in the game. 

It would've been a low risk (guaranteeing another $2-3MM over his 2021 compensation) offer to then have the player on team options for 2022 and 2023. 

I've a hard time believing back then that Berrios would've scoffed at 3 years $8MM with $3MM guaranteed at signing.

Douglas waited until the player, one the team sees daily outside the actual games, put up some yards in games that they knew he was capable of doing, and only then did he engage in extension talks. He did the same thing with JFM last year (no way JFM was in the 8-figure range in the summer before he had a few strong, early games that was never going to be his new baseline production going forward); and Anderson the year before, when he could've been locked up with minimal guarantees and at less than Carolina offered him on his 2-year deal, when the top offer for him at the trade deadline was a late 4th rounder from Baltimore iirc. 

He's waiting too long. Not quite as long as Maccagnan, who waits on everyone until there are no more games left in a player's final contract season, but it's still too long. A more proactive GM could've locked up FF and JFM for the same money he's now paying for JFM alone, with the guaranteed season already in the rear-view mirror by now, on annual team options. 

He pulled off the best trade the franchise has made in memory, but Douglas also seems a slow learner in this regard.

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4 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

The thing missing from the take is the elephant in the room:

Douglas had all the time in the world to lock up a player he's supposed to know about from his coaches, and Berrios would've jumped at a $3-4MM/year extension in the early fall, or even in August when his only guaranteed season would've been the 2021 season coming up & he was lower on the depth chart, knowing Crowder & Cole were UFAs after the current season and that Crowder was always leaving after getting the squeeze put on him so late in the game. 

It would've been a low risk (guaranteeing another $2-3MM over his 2021 compensation) offer to then have the player on team options for 2022 and 2023. 

I've a hard time believing back then that Berrios would've scoffed at 3 years $8MM with $3MM guaranteed at signing.

Douglas waited until the player, one the team sees daily outside the actual games, put up some yards in games that they knew he was capable of doing, and only then did he engage in extension talks. He did the same thing with JFM last year (no way JFM was in the 8-figure range in the summer before he had a few strong, early games that was never going to be his new baseline production going forward); and Anderson the year before, when he could've been locked up with minimal guarantees and at less than Carolina offered him on his 2-year deal, when the top offer for him at the trade deadline was a late 4th rounder from Baltimore iirc. 

He's waiting too long. Not quite as long as Maccagnan, who waits on everyone until there are no more games left in a player's final contract season, but it's still too long. A more proactive GM could've locked up FF and JFM for the same money he's now paying for JFM alone, with the guaranteed season already in the rear-view mirror by now, on annual team options. 

He pulled off the best trade the franchise has made in memory, but Douglas also seems a slow learner in this regard.

Might have been hard for the CS to know how he what he could bring to table after a couple of months with the player.  They were just hired afterall

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21 hours ago, mrcoops said:

Interesting, thanks. Seeing Berrios with a divisional rival would really suck.

Having a guy in Miami running the exact same system as us, and competing for the same players, is already getting annoying - especially with their in-built state income tax advantage over the Jets.

Monumentally annoying. I also don’t like that Belichick effectively has to plan to play the same scheme at least 4 games a year.

17 hours ago, Barry McCockinner said:

I hate the idea of letting a young WR your 2nd year QB has good chemistry with walking over some cap space when you have a crapload of it. Granted he's not worth big time WR money, but he is worth middle of the pack WR money IMO. 

I hope Douglas has a good plan here. 

That cap space goes away quickly when a team isn’t pulling cap magic and pushing it out a year - which I doubt the Jets do until they’re legitimate competitors.

It’s like $48M now but they have a huge rookie pool with all the draft picks and $13M in effective space goes there, so they’ve really got $35M to spend before they spend anything. Not a lot of cuttable guys. Need starters at WR, TE, RG, DT, LB, and at least one safety plus they’re likely to sign a veteran QB. The money is going to go away quickly.

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10 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

Might have been hard for the CS to know how he what he could bring to table after a couple of months with the player.  They were just hired afterall

Except Douglas didn't just get here, his skill set matches any offense (even if it's niche roles), but this one particularly well (seeing how the team saw fit to bring on and bring back two slot receivers), and the additional investment required back then was minimal.

So the only way a GM wouldn't sign a player is if the CS specifically and emphatically said NO! and it's unlikely such a negative reaction would've turned around to the point they now want him at 2-3x that amount.

It's not like the coaches are going to sign onto or veto every single acquisition that's coming up this month either. Sometimes there's no time for that and a GM can lose out on everybody by running everything past the coaches when a player's availability is in play. Plus the coaches saw him plenty, every day, up close, for weeks. That plus prior film really ought to have been enough for a backup/specials level extension.

They saw him up close a LOT more than the FAs they're about to commit to for a lot more $ and years than this would've been. They hadn't seen a full year of JFM but he got an extension inked in Sept, and the prior CS saw Griffin also for less time when he was given a midseason extension a couple years back. 

So no, I'm not buying that. This is the GM's job not the CS's job. 

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17 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

Except Douglas didn't just get here, his skill set matches any offense (even if it's niche roles), but this one particularly well (seeing how the team saw fit to bring on and bring back two slot receivers), and the additional investment required back then was minimal.

So the only way a GM wouldn't sign a player is if the CS specifically and emphatically said NO! and it's unlikely such a negative reaction would've turned around to the point they now want him at 2-3x that amount.

It's not like the coaches are going to sign onto or veto every single acquisition that's coming up this month either. Sometimes there's no time for that and a GM can lose out on everybody by running everything past the coaches when a player's availability is in play. Plus the coaches saw him plenty, every day, up close, for weeks. That plus prior film really ought to have been enough for a backup/specials level extension.

They saw him up close a LOT more than the FAs they're about to commit to for a lot more $ and years than this would've been. They hadn't seen a full year of JFM but he got an extension inked in Sept, and the prior CS saw Griffin also for less time when he was given a midseason extension a couple years back. 

So no, I'm not buying that. This is the GM's job not the CS's job. 

But you didn’t say that.  You correctly said he would get input from the coaches.  
Nothing wrong with improving but until he was used in this offense no one knew how he would adapt.  Think about what we thought about Berrios in Sept vs Dec & Jan.  
‘Sounds good to say we could have locked him up at $2-$3M per when he wasn’t as good as he developed into.  When he was just ok at everything he did and seemed easily replaceable.  I mean it’s so much easier to manage a roster after the fact

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13 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

But you didn’t say that.  You correctly said he would get input from the coaches.  
Nothing wrong with improving but until he was used in this offense no one knew how he would adapt.  Think about what we thought about Berrios in Sept vs Dec & Jan.  
‘Sounds good to say we could have locked him up at $2-$3M per when he wasn’t as good as he developed into.  When he was just ok at everything he did and seemed easily replaceable.  I mean it’s so much easier to manage a roster after the fact

Yes, coaches from not one but two staffs could've given him input on this player.

Berrios was already showing himself to be a player before the JFM extension, with a dozen catches in the first 2 weeks after typically working with the 2nd team that summer. 

I'm not giving Douglas this free pass. It's his responsibility to know what he's got and what he doesn't. He's succeeded in this task elsewhere and failed in this one.

Again, he knew and/or should've known far more about this player than any of the FA WRs and TEs he signed. Given the minimal investment required at the time, yes he deserves blame here the same way he'd deserve credit if he'd done it. 

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5 hours ago, Sperm Edwards said:

Yes, coaches from not one but two staffs could've given him input on this player.

Berrios was already showing himself to be a player before the JFM extension, with a dozen catches in the first 2 weeks after typically working with the 2nd team that summer. 

I'm not giving Douglas this cop-out. It's his responsibility to know what he's got and what he doesn't. He's succeeded in this task elsewhere and failed in this one.

Again, he knew and/or should've known far more about this player than any of the FA WRs and TEs he signed. Given the minimal investment required at the time, yes he deserves blame here the same way he'd deserve credit if he'd done it. 

I don’t think JD didn’t know what Berrios was after the time he’s been here.  I think he needed to know how or if this CS would use him enough different ways to earn an early deal because he would be forced into more playing time due to injury.  Without that Berrios wasn’t going to play enough, wasn’t going to be counted on to be the #2 WR

Davis, Moore, Cole missing all that time opened the door, not the coaches

Again I think this happens and really can’t complain that Berrios took it up a notch when we needed him.  Let’s face it he was an OK return guy who added little above that in the fall and easily replaceable.  We could say this about almost every player who got a big second contract.  Should have signed him to an extension in his 3rd season or whatever

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On 3/9/2022 at 11:05 AM, JTJet said:

Probably but its curious that JDs philosophy of rewarding the people that deserve it may have evaporated. 

Odd that JFM deserves the contract he got but Berrios doesn't deserve a good one? 

Unless you know what the offer was, how can you judge whether it was fair?  Maybe it wasnt, but maybe it was and Berrios and his agent want to make sure they dont leave any money on the table.  He probably doesnt get a third contract so this one needs to set him up for the rest of his life.

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I see alot of potential GMs criticizing Douglas but no one knows what was offered.   What would you offer Berrios now to keep him?  Years and guarantees and annual salary.  When he gets his  new contract we will then see who under valued and over valued him, as opposed to how the NFL GMs value him.  I like the player and would like to keep him but if he wants starter money, I dont see it personally.   

Id offer him 3 yrs with average salary of 6 million and 10 million guaranteed. 

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13 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

I don’t think JD didn’t know what Berrios was after the time he’s been here.  I think he needed to know how of if this CS would use him enough different ways to earn an early deal because he would be forced into more playing time due to injury.  Without that Berrios wasn’t going to play enough 

Davis, Moore, Cole missing all that time opened the door, not the coaches

Again I think this happens and really can’t complain that Berrios took it up a notch when we needed him.  Let’s face it he was an OK return guy who added little above that in the fall and easily replaceable.  We could say this about almost every player who got a big second contract.  Should have signed him to an extension in his 3rd season or whatever

Again, this is an argument against retaining someone at what was basically a bloated special teams salary, and wouldn't have come with more than 1 season fully guaranteed either.

When Moore + Cole + Crowder missed time (or in Moore's case, was lost upstairs) at the start of the season - Berrios stepped in quite quickly and easily. A GM should be able to see that value. The guy they cast aside steps in without missing a beat, as though he was working with the 1s all summer. That's after a 400-yard season again in a distant backup role the year before. Plus knowing his age, speed, and similarity to other valued players, even if he didn't possess the stature of a Mims type.

Anyway, the idea that he didn't show anything until the 2nd half of the season is a myth. It's his job to get and retain good players for this CS whether they express desire or not. That's why he's the GM and they're not. 

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The Jets are not a playoff team that can’t afford to pay a decent veteran player because of their other cap commitments.  The Jets have top 5 cap space and a crappy roster, including a need for WR.  

So while I would not want JD to overpay Berrios, it is a bit of a head scratcher how another team would see need to pay Berrios more than the Jets do.  The Jets need WRs, need a returner, need a good locker room guy, and have money.  What does it say if a team like Buffalo, a top 4 AFC team with a highly-paid QB and Stefon Diggs, see the value of paying Berrios more than the Jets would?  That does not make sense to me.  

JD can continue to cycle through players, but that only works if he hits home runs in his draft.  A guy like Berrios is a guy the Jets pay $1mm more than the next highest bid.   He can’t running out players.  Edoga should go.  Anyone but Feeney.  But Berrios, and maybe even Rankins, need to stay even if not “good value.”   If Berrios wants to play for the Jaguars or Texans for more and less taxes, that is one thing.  If he ends up in Buffalo or the like, something is wrong.  

Just sign him because he helps Zach, he is good for culture, and his girlfriend, sisters and their friends are hot and they provide good entertainment.  

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