Jump to content

Deshaun Watson criminal charges dropped


section314
 Share

Recommended Posts

9 hours ago, T0mShane said:

Can you provide me to a link to the “full details of the case”? Because I’m only aware of the Vrentas “Mary” article and Buzbee’s press conferences. I’d presume the many and varied groups who hand-waved Buzbee’s case heard more “details” than you and I have. 

Didn't only 9 of them press criminal charges?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

8 hours ago, Spoot-Face said:

From what we've heard, it wasn't full on "rape" but "forced oral" and that was only in a couple of the cases. I think the main problem is lack of physical evidence. Maybe if these women immediately went to the authorities afterwards, they'd have had a better chance of collecting physical evidence, but that's the problem with sexual assault and rape; many victims don't come forward for months or years, long after any potential evidence has been washed away or lost.

This case is more about Watson's word versus theirs, and there is a whole history of a woman's word (especially against a powerful figure or athlete) being dismissed.

Victims of sexual assault or abuse need to be empowered to come forward IMMEDIATELY, because that's the best chance they have of getting justice, and it doesn't help when every time they do, a fraction of people end up claiming that they're doing it for money or attention, and that sh*t is going on in this thread. That disgusts me just as much as the thought of a sexual predator getting away with it.

2 separate things; in my misspent youth I "professionally" did legal work on both ends in such situations. A DA can usually get a grand jury to see things his or her way. But when a defendant testifies or presents evidence, that's kind of a rare day. Most defendants are more inclined to accept the indictment rather than create a mess of things in grand jury testimony that locks in a story without knowing what the evidence against you is. At a trial, you don't present a defense case nor testify until the prosecution rests. So what Watson and his attorneys did is very unusual; very few defendants go to the grand jury. We don't know, but leads me to believe there were serious issues with the victims. 

Second, yes, we should believe and encourage women who are sexually assaulted to come forward and be heard. But in instances where the parties are known to each other, it isn't so cut and dry. This was not some instance where the criminal attacked a woman and dragged her into a dark alley. These ladies contracted to go to his house and massage him at least. Lot of gray in that. And in such a situation suspect the DA isn't heartbroken he doesn't have to go through the time and expense of a trial in a series of situations filled with reasonable doubt. How many of these masseuses have backgrounds of "other paid work"? To become a licensed physical therapist in NY  takes a lot of schooling and licensing exams. How many of these ladies were so educated and licensed in Texas? 

Make the trade. enough f___in' around. 

  • Upvote 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

9 hours ago, Spoot-Face said:

From what we've heard, it wasn't full on "rape" but "forced oral" and that was only in a couple of the cases. I think the main problem is lack of physical evidence. Maybe if these women immediately went to the authorities afterwards, they'd have had a better chance of collecting physical evidence, but that's the problem with sexual assault and rape; many victims don't come forward for months or years, long after any potential evidence has been washed away or lost.

This case is more about Watson's word versus theirs, and there is a whole history of a woman's word (especially against a powerful figure or athlete) being dismissed.

Victims of sexual assault or abuse need to be empowered to come forward IMMEDIATELY, because that's the best chance they have of getting justice, and it doesn't help when every time they do, a fraction of people end up claiming that they're doing it for money or attention, and that sh*t is going on in this thread. That disgusts me just as much as the thought of a sexual predator getting away with it.

I've stated this before, but I'll repeat it...

The prosecutor had to have understood the amount of pressure that would be put on her if she brought this to trial.

 I'm sure she would be vilified by many, attacked in social media, unfairly called names that can stick with you your entire life, in a circus atmosphere and against an unlimited budget for Watson's legal team.  Doing all of this with only verbal testimony and no physical evidence.

There is absolutely no wonder why she didn't aggressively pursue this.  With that said and based on the stories I've read - I absolutely believe the woman.  

Unfortunately, nothing new here.

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

10 hours ago, T0mShane said:

Can you provide me to a link to the “full details of the case”? Because I’m only aware of the Vrentas “Mary” article and Buzbee’s press conferences. I’d presume the many and varied groups who hand-waved Buzbee’s case heard more “details” than you and I have. 

Unless he stole the secret grand jury testimony transcripts, no. 

  • Sympathy 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I've stated this before, but I'll repeat it...
The prosecutor had to have understood the amount of pressure that would be put on her if she brought this to trial.
 I'm sure she would be vilified by many, attacked in social media, unfairly called names that can stick with you your entire life, in a circus atmosphere and against an unlimited budget for Watson's legal team.  Doing all of this with only verbal testimony and no physical evidence.
There is absolutely no wonder why she didn't aggressively pursue this.  With that said and based on the stories I've read - I absolutely believe the woman.  
Unfortunately, nothing new here.
 
 
Well that is pretty ******* sad if that is how it played out ... prosecutors are under oath to serve the law no matter the cost.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

58 minutes ago, Bugg said:

If the standard to play in the NFL is "innocent", well...define terms. Or be prepared to play 7 on 7. 

I don’t know about you, but I believe the standard should at least be “don’t rape or sexually assault anyone.”

  • Upvote 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, JiFapono said:

You’re favorite team employed and played a man at QB who was found guilty without a shadow of a doubt and did jail time for torturing, abusing and murdering helpless, defenseless dogs for entertainment and you’re still here.  

Trust me, that tested me.  I still haven’t forgotten that.  I would die for my animals.  If I said what I actually felt about Vick, the Good Lord would probably smite me where I stand.

  • Upvote 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I would trade Zach Wilson for Deshaun Watson and throw in that #10 overall pick this year in a heartbeat. Look at the AFC quarterback landscape. The Jets are rolling with a big unknown at quarterback in Zach Wilson, and the Jets haven't made the playoffs in over a decade. Trading for Watson is a bold move that comes with a big cost, but it would shoot a bolt of lightning into this franchise and bring it back to life. 

 

Not sure if someone already posted this.

https://omny.fm/shows/carton-and-roberts/should-the-jets-trade-for-deshaun-watson

  • Upvote 3
  • Thumb Down 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

7 minutes ago, playtowinthegame said:

I would trade Zach Wilson for Deshaun Watson and throw in that #10 overall pick this year in a heartbeat. Look at the AFC quarterback landscape. The Jets are rolling with a big unknown at quarterback in Zach Wilson, and the Jets haven't made the playoffs in over a decade. Trading for Watson is a bold move that comes with a big cost, but it would shoot a bolt of lightning into this franchise and bring it back to life. 

 

Not sure if someone already posted this.

https://omny.fm/shows/carton-and-roberts/should-the-jets-trade-for-deshaun-watson

Zach and #10 wouldn’t come close to getting that done. The Texans could legitimately respond that they already have a better young QB than Wilson on their roster in Davis Mills. Zach would be a throw-in.

  • Haha 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

14 minutes ago, playtowinthegame said:

I would trade Zach Wilson for Deshaun Watson and throw in that #10 overall pick this year in a heartbeat. Look at the AFC quarterback landscape. The Jets are rolling with a big unknown at quarterback in Zach Wilson, and the Jets haven't made the playoffs in over a decade. Trading for Watson is a bold move that comes with a big cost, but it would shoot a bolt of lightning into this franchise and bring it back to life. 

 

Not sure if someone already posted this.

https://omny.fm/shows/carton-and-roberts/should-the-jets-trade-for-deshaun-watson

I’d throw 10 and 4. 

  • Upvote 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just now, T0mShane said:

Zach and #10 wouldn’t come close to getting that done. The Texans could legitimately respond that they already have a better young QB than Wilson on their roster in Davis Mills. Zach would be a throw-in.

 

You are right. Seattle is going to come strong for Watson after trading Russell Wilson...It would feel so great to beat out the Seahawks for Watson using that 10 pick in this year's draft which was originally their pick.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

16 hours ago, bla bla bla said:

Zero shot they trade him within the division.

Seattle - Carroll is old, he didn't trade Wilson to rebuild

Philly - 3 first round picks + out of conference

Carolina - Watson already said no the last time they tried to trade for him, will be interesting if his opinion changed

Steelers - Tomlin + Flores

I can't imagine Watson being picky w/his no trade clause.

  • Upvote 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

16 hours ago, bla bla bla said:

Zero shot they trade him within the division.

Seattle - Carroll is old, he didn't trade Wilson to rebuild

Philly - 3 first round picks + out of conference

Carolina - Watson already said no the last time they tried to trade for him, will be interesting if his opinion changed

Steelers - Tomlin + Flores

Joe Douglas has plenty of powder in the keg to make a trade for Watson. Some of those teams you listed don't have the kind of draft capital the Jets have to get Watson. Thank you Joe Douglas, thank you.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

22 minutes ago, playtowinthegame said:

 

You are right. ding Russell Wilson...ISeattle is going to come strong for Watson after trat would feel so great to beat out the Seahawks for Watson using that 10 pick in this year's draft which was originally their pick.

Probably his 1st choice. As of last night, the Seattle City Council still doesn't allow police officers to set foot in town.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Mogglez said:

I don’t know about you, but I believe the standard should at least be “don’t rape or sexually assault anyone.”

Well there goes half the NFL

  • Upvote 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Joe Douglas has plenty of powder in the keg to make a trade for Watson. Some of those teams you listed don't have the kind of draft capital the Jets have to get Watson. Thank you Joe Douglas, thank you.
Not gonna happen ... put the penis away.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Joe Douglas has plenty of powder in the keg to make a trade for Watson. Some of those teams you listed don't have the kind of draft capital the Jets have to get Watson. Thank you Joe Douglas, thank you.


Tapatalk dup

Link to comment
Share on other sites

43 minutes ago, FidelioJet said:

The Jets are, rightfully, committed to Wilson...And have faith in his growth.

Thankfully they're not interested in trading him away, especially for a serial sexual predator.

This post will age like fine wine.

  • Upvote 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I find this trade for Watson talk a bit shocking.  

I can look past a lot of things for a winner, but this is crossing the line.  If it was just one accuser I could try to explain it as he said/she said, but it's reaching Cosby levels. 

  • Upvote 1
  • Sympathy 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, JiFapono said:

You’re favorite team employed and played a man at QB who was found guilty without a shadow of a doubt and did jail time for torturing, abusing and murdering helpless, defenseless dogs for entertainment and you’re still here.  

Vick pled guilty, served almost two years in prison, lost a $130 million contract, had to pay Atlanta $20-30 million back, went bankrupt.....He paid a significant price for his crime. Vick has repented and has been involved in animal rights causes.  Watson lost a year of football and was paid for it.  

  • Upvote 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, Bugg said:

2 separate things; in my misspent youth I "professionally" did legal work on both ends in such situations. A DA can usually get a grand jury to see things his or her way. But when a defendant testifies or presents evidence, that's kind of a rare day. Most defendants are more inclined to accept the indictment rather than create a mess of things in grand jury testimony that locks in a story without knowing what the evidence against you is. At a trial, you don't present a defense case nor testify until the prosecution rests. So what Watson and his attorneys did is very unusual; very few defendants go to the grand jury. We don't know, but leads me to believe there were serious issues with the victims. 

Second, yes, we should believe and encourage women who are sexually assaulted to come forward and be heard. But in instances where the parties are known to each other, it isn't so cut and dry. This was not some instance where the criminal attacked a woman and dragged her into a dark alley. These ladies contracted to go to his house and massage him at least. Lot of gray in that. And in such a situation suspect the DA isn't heartbroken he doesn't have to go through the time and expense of a trial in a series of situations filled with reasonable doubt. How many of these masseuses have backgrounds of "other paid work"? To become a licensed physical therapist in NY  takes a lot of schooling and licensing exams. How many of these ladies were so educated and licensed in Texas? 

Make the trade. enough f___in' around. 

1) I really don't see what you're trying to say with the first paragraph as it relates to my post.

2) I don't know how to unpack the second paragraph. Just because they "knew" Deshaun makes this case different? They didn't really know him. AFAIK, he was a new client for each of them. The one account by "Mary" said she didn't know until 15 minutes prior. And comparing it to a woman being randomly dragged into a dark alley? Rape takes many forms. I don't see the gray area in a woman who "knows" her assaulter versus a woman who doesn't, unless you're saying that women who know their assaulter are more likely to be lying? And the bolded almost sounds like you're questioning whether these women are actual whores who have done this kind of thing before. That is a hell of a statement without any evidence. Please tell me I'm wrong about that and you meant something else.

I don't give a sh*t about the legal procedures, or precedents here, or that a grand jury didn't see enough evidence to prosecute. All I see are 20+ women who all corroborate each other and give accounts that say Watson exhibited behavior that was not just creepy and gross, but that amounted to rape. I won't be satisfied that he didn't do it until all the women are proved to have been lying. End of story.

Like I said before, if the Jets were to make this trade (which I don't think they would) I'm done with them for the foreseeable future.

  • Upvote 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, Mogglez said:

Trust me, that tested me.  I still haven’t forgotten that.  I would die for my animals.  If I said what I actually felt about Vick, the Good Lord would probably smite me where I stand.

What helped me get over Vick being here was two things:

1) He did serve time and was punished for his crimes.

2) I knew he wouldn't be here long.

Neither of those would apply to Deshaun Watson in this case.

  • Upvote 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Hex said:

Well there goes half the NFL

Here's a thought. It might sound crazy, but...

Maybe we shouldn't enable and idolize sexual predators and murderers for our entertainment?

Crazy idea, I know.

  • Upvote 2
  • Post of the Week 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, playtowinthegame said:

Joe Douglas has plenty of powder in the keg to make a trade for Watson. Some of those teams you listed don't have the kind of draft capital the Jets have to get Watson. Thank you Joe Douglas, thank you.

If the Jets wanted to get involved, we definitely have the most attractive trade package. I don't think they do that though.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Spoot-Face said:

1) I really don't see what you're trying to say with the first paragraph as it relates to my post.

2) I don't know how to unpack the second paragraph. Just because they "knew" Deshaun makes this case different? They didn't really know him. AFAIK, he was a new client for each of them. The one account by "Mary" said she didn't know until 15 minutes prior. And comparing it to a woman being randomly dragged into a dark alley? Rape takes many forms. I don't see the gray area in a woman who "knows" her assaulter versus a woman who doesn't, unless you're saying that women who know their assaulter are more likely to be lying? And the bolded almost sounds like you're questioning whether these women are actual whores who have done this kind of thing before. That is a hell of a statement without any evidence. Please tell me I'm wrong about that and you meant something else.

I don't give a sh*t about the legal procedures, or precedents here, or that a grand jury didn't see enough evidence to prosecute. All I see are 20+ women who all corroborate each other and give accounts that say Watson exhibited behavior that was not just creepy and gross, but that amounted to rape. I won't be satisfied that he didn't do it until all the women are proved to have been lying. End of story.

Like I said before, if the Jets were to make this trade (which I don't think they would) I'm done with them for the foreseeable future.

If in fact these women were not fully-licensed and educated physical therapists, or had records for engaging in solicitation, yes, I think as a DA or a defense attorney I would take that into account in evaluating their credibility as witnesses. Or if they had a financial interest in the outcome of a criminal trial making their civil claim improve. And a jury certainly will. 

"Rape takes many forms".It does. But  legally, there are classes of crimes, the law makes distinctions, forcible, statutory, other circumstances. Apparently you don't.  The bolded  indicates you are fine with people who aren't legally culpable being legally prosecuted for....anything any time any lady complains? Seen up close "professionally" viscous animals who do in fact drag a girl in the alley at gunpoint. But also seen women who woke up the next day and decided their unhappy often drunk hookup which was by any reasonable standard consented to was now a bit sobered up   grounds to cry rape.  No reasonable doubt to you;talk about unpacking. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, FidelioJet said:

The Jets are, rightfully, committed to Wilson...And have faith in his growth.

Thankfully they're not interested in trading him away.

To be clear, all of this can be pinned to bad ownership and leadership. Zach sucked last year. The tape, the numbers, the rankings all bear that out. Deshaun was a top 5 QB the last time he played in the NFL, and is still on the right side of 30. The Jets have the firepower to go get him and all it would cost them is the ability to select in the first round this year. They’d still have all the other picks, wouldn’t put future picks in jeopardy, and would still have all the cap space to build around him this year alone.

Putting all of the off-field stuff to the side, your post is exactly what is wrong with this team and what has held us back for literally generations.

  • Sympathy 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 minutes ago, Bugg said:

If in fact these women were not fully-licensed and educated physical therapists, or had records for engaging in solicitation, yes, I think as a DA or a defense attorney I would take that into account in evaluating their credibility as witnesses. Or if they had a financial interest in the outcome of a criminal trial making their civil claim improve. And a jury certainly will. 

"Rape takes many forms".It does. But  legally, there are classes of crimes, the law makes distinctions, forcible, statutory, other circumstances. Apparently you don't.  The bolded  indicates you are fine with people who aren't legally culpable being legally prosecuted for....anything any time any lady complains? Seen up close "professionally" viscous animals who do in fact drag a girl in the alley at gunpoint. But also seen women who woke up the next day and decided their unhappy often drunk hookup which was by any reasonable standard consented to was now a bit sobered up   grounds to cry rape.  No reasonable doubt to you;talk about unpacking. 

It sounds like you're coming at this from a place of trust in the justice system, where if a grand jury declined to press charges, then surely they had good reason. It's great that you have that trust. I don't.

And, no, I'm not cool with anyone being prosecuted "just because a lady complains". If this case was only one or two women saying it, I'd be more skeptical of the claims. But we have 20+ "ladies complaining".

I'm not trying to accuse you here, but a lot of what you're saying just sounds like victim blaming to me. Now, I'm not going to act like there aren't cases where women lie for financial gain or simply regret a consensual encounter, but I'd be surprised if those cases didn't make up a small minority of the overall cases, so I'm not going to jump to those conclusions without evidence of which we don't have available to us. Especially considering how many times a real victim is dismissed based on that kind of victim blaming. The whole #MeToo movement didn't come about just because of a few disgruntled women. There's a reason why it took off.

If evidence comes forth proving that all or a large majority of these women were either fabricating complaints entirely, or intentionally distorting a consensual encounter, then I'll take back what I've been saying about Watson. Until then, I'm going to believe 20 voices > 1 voice.

  • Upvote 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

 Share

×
×
  • Create New...