Deshaun Watson criminal charges dropped

[heymangold]

6 hours ago, DetroitRed said:

And not a single one could provide evidence that would send him to prison.   Not 1. Send him where sexual predators belong.  If you can provide  it, bring it. 

OJ wasn't convicted, you think he didn't do it?

Roethlisberger wasn't indicted, you think he didn't do what he was accused of?

just cause it can't be proven, doesn't mean it didn't happen.

[ZachEY]

20 minutes ago, heymangold said:

OJ wasn't convicted, you think he didn't do it?

Roethlisberger wasn't indicted, you think he didn't do what he was accused of?

just cause it can't be proven, doesn't mean it didn't happen.

I’ve asked these Dunning-Krueger Olympians multiple times what physical evidence would even look like in these circumstances that would lead to a conviction.

Shockingly, crickets.  Always crickets.

[Jet Nut]

6 hours ago, DetroitRed said:

And not a single one could provide evidence that would send him to prison.   Not 1. Send him where sexual predators belong.  If you can provide  it, bring it. 

That's the problem with these kinds of cases.  It happened in a massage room, his residence no ability to prove any case like this, its their word against his.  The only reason the case wasnt pursued.  Having the case dropped doesnt mean anyone thinks hes innocent, it says they wont waste time, energy and money trying to prosecute a he said/she said case.  Only those looking for excuses as to why he should be allowed to play for their team fall back on this nonsense.  

You have a lower burden of proof in the civil cases, theyre not going away.  The NFL investigation has a much lower burden of proof.  So dont get all warm and fuzzy over the prosecution not going through with the criminal case making the mistake in thinking it proves innocence.

Funny most fans are quick to jump on Big Ben as a rapist and Ray Lewis as a murderer.  Here, with 22, no one accuser, 22, defend him as if its ludicrous that a star QB could try and force a happy ending.  Funny how different the thinking is when its two players you have no option to trade for and only will be in the way of your teams success

[DetroitRed]

37 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

That's the problem with these kinds of cases.  It happened in a massage room, his residence no ability to prove any case like this, its their word against his.  The only reason the case wasnt pursued.  Having the case dropped doesnt mean anyone thinks hes innocent, it says they wont waste time, energy and money trying to prosecute a he said/she said case.  Only those looking for excuses as to why he should be allowed to play for their team fall back on this nonsense.  

You have a lower burden of proof in the civil cases, theyre not going away.  The NFL investigation has a much lower burden of proof.  So dont get all warm and fuzzy over the prosecution not going through with the criminal case making the mistake in thinking it proves innocence.

Funny most fans are quick to jump on Big Ben as a rapist and Ray Lewis as a murderer.  Here, with 22, no one accuser, 22, defend him as if its ludicrous that a star QB could try and force a happy ending.  Funny how different the thinking is when its two players you have no option to trade for and only will be in the way of your teams success

If you are forcing scores/ hundreds of women to perform sex acts, there will be damning evidence.  And somebody is going to call the authorities or go to the hospital immediately after the incident.  Did that ever happen?  Once?  Just a coincidence I guess 
 

 

[Barry McCockinner]

I heard he's going to wear #22 on the Browns.

[DirtyJersey]

People searching for old threads to bump after multiple ones have been locked?

 

Lol

[Irish Jet]

There are just a sad amount of people who always apply nefarious intent to women in these scenarios. 

[Matt39]

1 hour ago, heymangold said:

OJ wasn't convicted, you think he didn't do it?

Roethlisberger wasn't indicted, you think he didn't do what he was accused of?

just cause it can't be proven, doesn't mean it didn't happen.

They were able to throw the book at Darren Sharper. Fairly similar case from what I can remember.

[Jet Nut]

25 minutes ago, DetroitRed said:

If you are forcing scores/ hundreds of women to perform sex acts, there will be damning evidence.  And somebody is going to call the authorities or go to the hospital immediately after the incident.  Did that ever happen?  Once?  Just a coincidence I guess 
 

 

Going to the hospital because someone moved your hand onto their dick?  

Not seeing that, most women dont want to go to the hospital and go through the process when theyre forcibly raped.  They know in the rare case that makes it to court, theyre the ones put on trial and their names dragged through the mud, not the one one on trial.  And again, he did what he did either in the girls place or his home, what proof are you going to have that he pushed his dick onto their hands?  

Funny you see going to the hospital or authorities a coincidence but dont see 22 women from different parts of the country all having similar stories as coincidence when they all point the finger at one person.  Setting themselves up to be what some are already saying about these girls in this thread, proving why women STFU and go home to often.  

[DetroitRed]

5 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

Going to the hospital because someone moved your hand onto their dick?  

Not seeing that, most women dont want to go to the hospital and go through the process when theyre forcibly raped.  They know in the rare case that makes it to court, theyre the ones put on trial and their names dragged through the mud, not the one one on trial.  And again, he did what he did either in the girls place or his home, what proof are you going to have that he pushed his dick onto their hands?  

Funny you see going to the hospital or authorities a coincidence but dont see 22 women from different parts of the country all having similar stories as coincidence when they all point the finger at one person.  Setting themselves up to be what some are already saying about these girls in this thread, proving why women STFU and go home to often.  

So everyone did not report it and not a single one took action right after the fact. Not a single person. But they all want to get paid. You believe what you want

[heymangold]

21 minutes ago, Matt39 said:

They were able to throw the book at Darren Sharper. Fairly similar case from what I can remember.

similar yes - i went back to read up on it.  Sharper ended up pleading guilty though.  he was arrested for it as well - watson never was.  point still being, watson should be subject to at least a 6 game suspension, if not more.  if ridley can get a whole year for gambling, watson deserves more.

[Biggs]

1 hour ago, heymangold said:

OJ wasn't convicted, you think he didn't do it?

Roethlisberger wasn't indicted, you think he didn't do what he was accused of?

just cause it can't be proven, doesn't mean it didn't happen.

There's a big difference between a conviction and a Grand Jury not indicting.   OJ was indicted.  In the Roethlisberger case there was no physical evidence and the alleged victim didn't want the case to move forward.   Very tough to indict with no physical evidence and a victim unwilling to testify.   Hard to know if the DA was ham strung in this case because the victims weren't interested in a criminal conviction and may feel their best shot at a financial settlement is based on Watson continue to play and get paid.  

The Grand Jury in the Watson case could have certainly indicted him and moved the case to a criminal trial.  They didn't and they didn't need the same level of proof that you need to convict in an actual criminal trial. 

Not saying it means anything but there's a huge difference between OJ, Watson and Rothlisberger.  In the OJ case there was a lots of physical evidence.  The prosecution relied on actual physical evidence.  The defense alleged the evidence was tampered with and the chain of custody was broken.  

 

[Jet Nut]

2 minutes ago, DetroitRed said:

So everyone did not report it and not a single one took action right after the fact. Not a single person. But they all want to get paid. You believe what you want

Yes.

Go ahead, be one of the few who think all women who accuse someone are in it for the money if they are raped behind closed doors and cant provide concrete evidence.  Who automatically take the side of the accused denials vs the victims word.  Its also not a coincidence that most think he did it, that most are repulsed with the idea of Watson representing their team.  Go the the Browns forum and read away at how many agree with your spin on it being greedy women and cant wait to see him in a Browns uni.  

 

[heymangold]

Just now, Biggs said:

There's a big difference between a conviction and a Grand Jury not indicting.   OJ was indicted.  In the Roethlisberger case there was no physical evidence and the alleged victim didn't want the case to move forward.   Very tough to indict with no physical evidence and a victim unwilling to testify.   Hard to know if the DA was ham strung in this case because the victims weren't interested in a criminal conviction and may feel their best shot at a financial settlement is based on Watson continue to play and get paid.  

The Grand Jury in the Watson case could have certainly indicted him and moved the case to a criminal trial.  They didn't and they didn't need the same level of proof that you need to convict in an actual criminal trial. 

Not saying it means anything but there's a huge difference between OJ, Watson and Rothlisberger.  In the OJ case there was a lots of physical evidence.  The prosecution relied on actual physical evidence.  The defense alleged the evidence was tampered with and the chain of custody was broken.  

 

i understand the difference.  i'm just attempting to prove that just because there isn't an ability to prove something, it doesn't mean it didn't happen.

[Jet Nut]

11 minutes ago, DetroitRed said:

So everyone did not report it and not a single one took action right after the fact. Not a single person. But they all want to get paid. You believe what you want

How do you know these are all the women he's done this to?  How do you know there arent others who have been victimized and dont want to have their names smeared, their reputations dragged through themed by people who think like you and will claim theyre making it up for money?

 

[DetroitRed]

4 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

Yes.

Go ahead, be one of the few who think all women who accuse someone are in it for the money if they are raped behind closed doors and cant provide concrete evidence.  Who automatically take the side of the accused denials vs the victims word.  Its also not a coincidence that most think he did it, that most are repulsed with the idea of Watson representing their team.  Go the the Browns forum and read away at how many agree with your spin on it being greedy women and cant wait to see him in a Browns uni.  

 

Believe all women!  We’ve heard that before.

I don’t automatically believe anyone. And its not good practice to state someone’s position.  It’s pretty weak. 
 

 I will believe you when you provide hard evidence. Especially when you are going to mark someone as a predator for the rest of their lives.  There is none here 

 

 

 

[Jet Nut]

4 minutes ago, DetroitRed said:

Believe all women!  We’ve heard that before.

I don’t automatically believe anyone. And its not good practice to state someone’s position.  It’s pretty weak. 
 

 I will believe you when you provide hard evidence. Especially when you are going to mark someone as a predator for the rest of their lives.  There is none here 

 

 

 

Its not weak, youre position is based on nothing factual.  But you want it for others to prove their case.  Interesting take

Done though, you can believe what you want and disagree with most.  

[Biggs]

12 minutes ago, DetroitRed said:

So everyone did not report it and not a single one took action right after the fact. Not a single person. But they all want to get paid. You believe what you want

What's wrong with wanting to get paid and in getting paid by the perp who is being punished with a financial burden?  In the USA we punish individuals and companies for doing harm to people with financial penalties that often award money to victims.    Victims of crimes often feel they are at fault for their own victimization right after being violated.   Sometimes it takes years to recognize you were not at fault and you were actually victimized by criminal behavior. 

Take a look at all these young kids who were molested in Church.  Many of them thought is was there own fault for years.  

That doesn't mean all these women are telling the truth.  The good thing about seeking financial damages is Juries or Judges will hear from both sides and you're probably going to get some justice for both sides.  

The flip side of your argument is if Watson settles to avoid public trials does that mean he's guilty?

[T0mShane]

16 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

How do you know these are all the women he's done this to?  How do you know there arent others who have been victimized and dont want to have their names smeared, their reputations dragged through themed by people who think like you and will claim theyre making it up for money?

 

Maybe he murdered dozens of other massage therapists and dumped their bodies in the Rio Grande. Goodell should totally act on this hypothetical, as well. What’s the average length of a suspension for mass murder? 

[DetroitRed]

11 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

Its not weak, youre position is based on nothing factual.  But you want it for others to prove their case.  Interesting take

Done though, you can believe what you want and disagree with most.  

Its called critical thinking.   I don’t automatically agree with the mob

[Hal N of Provo]

7 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

Maybe he murdered dozens of other massage therapists and dumped their bodies in the Rio Grande. Goodell should totally act on this hypothetical, as well. What’s the average length of a suspension for mass murder? 

There are 23 who have gone on record.   Not exactly a stretch to think there could be more.

[Biggs]

15 minutes ago, DetroitRed said:

Believe all women!  We’ve heard that before.

I don’t automatically believe anyone. And its not good practice to state someone’s position.  It’s pretty weak. 
 

 I will believe you when you provide hard evidence. Especially when you are going to mark someone as a predator for the rest of their lives.  There is none here 

 

 

 

There's a huge difference between Not guilty and credible belief.  That's why seeking financial penalties may be the most appropriate venue for these women. 

Agree with your basic premise.  We shouldn't automatically believe anyone.  That doesn't mean we automatically don't believe people who are honest and credible.  Juries and Judges in civil casses just like Judges and Juries in criminal casses make these determinations all the time.

Hard evidence seems like an absurd standard for belief of wrongdoing.  Believing all of these women aren't credible or are somehow in a conspiracy seems highly subjective.  I think it's at least appropriate to wait and hear from the victims under oath before reaching that conclussion.  

[DetroitRed]

10 minutes ago, Biggs said:

There's a huge difference between Not guilty and credible belief.  That's why seeking financial penalties may be the most appropriate venue for these women. 

Agree with your basic premise.  We shouldn't automatically believe anyone.  That doesn't mean we automatically don't believe people who are honest and credible.  Juries and Judges in civil casses just like Judges and Juries in criminal casses make these determinations all the time.

Hard evidence seems like an absurd standard for belief of wrongdoing.  Believing all of these women aren't credible or are somehow in a conspiracy seems highly subjective.  I think it's at least appropriate to wait and hear from the victims under oath before reaching that conclussion.  

Sure.  That’s just my standard, if you want to label me sexual predator for the rest of my existence 

[RutgersJetFan]

2 hours ago, ZachEY said:

I’ve asked these Dunning-Krueger Olympians multiple times what physical evidence would even look like in these circumstances that would lead to a conviction.

Shockingly, crickets.  Always crickets.

I'm not looking forward to the day when I have to start trying to explain to my daughter that guys like this exist on a pretty common level. Sad sh*t, really.

[Biggs]

3 minutes ago, RutgersJetFan said:

I'm not looking forward to the day when I have to start trying to explain to my daughter that guys like this exist on a pretty common level. Sad sh*t, really.

It's been that way for a long time.  Most men think most women have never been victimized by a sexual predator.  Most women have been victimized by a sexual predator.  

[Mogglez]

27 minutes ago, DetroitRed said:

Its called critical thinking.   I don’t automatically agree with the mob

What do you think of the screenshots of Watson apologizing to multiple masseuses for making them uncomfortable, that he tried to delete after the accusations came out?  What do your critical thinking skills say about that one?

[Beerfish]

Without the facts obviously none of us can totally jump on one side or the other to for sure know what really happened.  So we have to play the 'odds are' game

Seeing 22 different massage therapist over this time when as a pro player you have access to team therapists.  Odds are there is something nefarious about this.

The fact that a good number of these women were 'massage therapist pros' not some girls working at the asian Orchid, odds are they are not of the ilk that some are portraying.

Odds are that Watson is a creepy slime ball who committed some creepy slimy things.

We may or may not ever know but 'odds are'

[DetroitRed]

4 minutes ago, Mogglez said:

What do you think of the screenshots of Watson apologizing to multiple masseuses for making them uncomfortable, that he tried to delete after the accusations came out?  What do your critical thinking skills say about that one?

It makes me think they were uncomfortable.  

[Untouchable]

43 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

Maybe he murdered dozens of other massage therapists and dumped their bodies in the Rio Grande. Goodell should totally act on this hypothetical, as well. What’s the average length of a suspension for mass murder? 

6 game suspension and a $100k fine 

[Mogglez]

4 minutes ago, DetroitRed said:

It makes me think they were uncomfortable.  

And what might have made them uncomfortable that Deshaun tried to delete evidence of?

[DetroitRed]

1 minute ago, Mogglez said:

And what might have made them uncomfortable that Deshaun tried to delete evidence of?

Sorry. I don’t speculate.  If you have the entire context or hard evidence, please provide.  He should apologize if they were uncomfortable.  I won’t convict him as a predator 

[Asymmetrical]

4 minutes ago, Beerfish said:

Without the facts obviously none of us can totally jump on one side or the that to for sure know what really happened.  So we have to play the 'odds are' game

Seeing 22 different massage therapist over this time when as a pro player you have access to team therapists.  Odds are there is something nefarious about this.

The fact that a good number of these women were 'massage therapist pros' not some girls working at the asian Orchid, odds are they are not of the ilk that some are portraying.

Odds are that that Watson is a creepy slime ball who committed some creepy slimy things.

We may or may not ever know but 'odds are'

 

that's the thing that gets me, is it really that much harder to imagine that one star athlete is a freaking gross creep than a sprawling conspiracy of massage therapists? 

[the Claw]

44 minutes ago, DetroitRed said:

Its called critical thinking.   I don’t automatically agree with the mob

Except you’re not thinking critically. This isn’t mob mentality stuff, man. This is 22 women. You can’t get 22 women to agree on where to get lunch, let alone get them to destroy the career and reputation of an innocent man for some money.

[Jet Nut]

55 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

Maybe he murdered dozens of other massage therapists and dumped their bodies in the Rio Grande. Goodell should totally act on this hypothetical, as well. What’s the average length of a suspension for mass murder? 

You mean the hypothetical that only you have manufactured to deflect the actual charges that have been made against your guy?  

Makes sense.  To no one

[Jet Nut]

50 minutes ago, DetroitRed said:

Its called critical thinking.   I don’t automatically agree with the mob

What part of done didnt you get.