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Amari Cooper traded to Browns


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16 hours ago, jetstream23 said:

For a 5th?

Okay, JD faithful.... you have 30 minutes to craft and post your defense of this. lol

Things you're excluded from saying:

1. This was the plan all along!

2. This means Berrios is about to be back

3. They must see something in Denzel Mims

4. The injured Corey Davis is clearly the guy they want as WR1.

5. They must know Elijah Moore won't be injured again.

6. We're going WR at #4 and #10

People here over rate players all the time. Cooper is not the player that can step in here and be a number 1 guy. He has played on teams loaded with offensive talent so he never had to be the number one guy or the focal point of an offense. Coming here would have put him in that position and I'm not sure he's that type of player. He's inconsistent, has a huge game here and there which IMHO pad his stats, then just plays ordinary . 2 games over 100 yards last year 104 targets 69 catches. As I said in other threads Cooper is a number 2 WR and the Jets have 2 of those. He belongs in an established offense and in an ordinary offense he's not going to be the guy who changes things. We need a big target possession guy who can move the chains and be fearless over the middle and currently we don't have that and Amari Cooper is NOT that guy. If you guys want to pile up a pack of number 2's your going to have exactly that a pile of number 2's and this offense will not have "that guy" everyone needs to account for. There are about 15 guys in the NFL that fit that mold and Cooper is not one of them. Maybe there's one in the draft lets see what that amounts too before paying freaking Amari Cooper 20 mil per .... This has absolutely nothing to do with a draft pick especially not a 5 or 6th rounder . 

2021 season stats
  • REC. Tied-38th.
  • YDS. 865. 34th.
  • TD. Tied-16th.
  • AVG. 12.7. 47th.
Jun 18, 1994
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Not sure why so many are so upset that Cooper was traded to the Browns.  He’s being paid as the 4th highest WR and not producing close to that last year.   He’s dropped off athletically and does t look like a $20M WR.   The biggest reason for not trading for him is that he wanted no part of being here.  Why trade away picks and pay $20M for a guy who would rather be elsewhere?   It’s a recipe for disaster.   I could only imagine the threads around here come mid October when Cooper wasn’t a top 5 WR in the league.   

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7 hours ago, Sperm Edwards said:

Ordinarily I might agree, but this isn't ordinary because the team's added an unusually high number of draft picks in a short span, while one of them is a QB that lowers their veteran-spending needs that much further.

Next year they'll have lesser veteran $ needs than they have this spring. If Douglas doesn't **** up this draft, since he's got so many high picks he should come away with 5 new starters from this draft. At least 2-3 of them should be either replacing existing higher-priced veterans or should eliminate the need to go out and "buy" them in FA. It's the same result either way: 3 more quality starters that require 3 fewer veteran salaries.

e.g. say they did add a veteran WR like Robinson (or a similarly significant WR contract they'll be guaranteed to for at least the upcoming 2 seasons). Now say they further draft a WR at #10 or in round 2. This draftee could/should make Davis expendable in 2023, and knocks off his $10.5MM from next year's cap. Then further they also draft a LB to make Mosley's $17MM salary expendable. Also figure they'll draft a TE, but look at it from the other direction: it's not a current veteran that becomes cuttable so much as it's a new serious veteran FA TE they won't need to sign or trade for at $11-12MM per. That's cutting about $35MM more from 2023 than they'd otherwise spend on those 3 positions/players.

In that scenario they'll be looking at a number approaching or exceeding $120MM in 2023 cap space (yes, before factoring in Fant/McGovern). It's not a hard argument to make that furthering Wilson's development now is worth spending $20MM more this year and a mere $100MM in cap space next year instead of all $120MM of it in 2023 -- an amount they wouldn't possibly use up anyway unless they're spending just to spend. More importantly, with 8+ fewer needs filled between 2022's FA and draft, that lower amount of $100MM is still so high there isn't any player they'll want to add that they couldn't. 

That's still without later deciding if C.Lawson isn't worth $15MM, whereby if they sign someone else, matching with a 2022 drafted edge rusher playing the other side:  the majority of that new signing's money will be offset by cutting Lawson. So if they did want to sign a $20MM edge rusher in FA a year from now, his net additional cap charge will be just $5MM (and even that's if Douglas decides to unnecessarily have that new edge's contract hit the cap equally each year); if he is worth keeping, even better.

I get the idea that it can be a slippery slope, but one has to look at the bigger picture specific to this team at this time instead of adhering a generic soft rule: this is a team with a lot of draft picks (again) and a gargantuan amount of cap space next year. The dirty word of "borrowing" - $20MM, give or take, from 2023 in this scenario - isn't the dirty word it might be under normal situations. 

If the team had $60MM of projected cap space in 2022 and 2023 each, few would advocate only spending $10MM of it this year so the team could instead have $110MM in space a year later. Not while directive #1 is removing all excuses from their young QB who had so many rookie struggles. 

At some point they have to start winning some games in the present instead of always taking the position that cap space would be of better use next year (when they won't possibly need $100MM more cap space to fill out the roster). 

Sorry about the length, but it's what I do, and you're not that much better lol. 

Oh yeah I’m absolutely no better.

Not to be repetitive, but the end goal is obviously a Super Bowl and that’s where I set the bar. I think we can agree they’re not a Super Bowl contender this year - to be fair that’s probably what Bengals fans thought entering this season.

As I said in my first couple of posts and you said here, supporting Wilson’s development would be justification for spending next year’s money this year. No argument on that. I do think it’s complicated to demonstrate that the difference between Wilson’s success and failure as an NFL player would be the presence of - since we’re in this thread, Amari Cooper - and so I think there’s a wide grey area there. Obviously if the Jets felt that would be the difference they would have acquired him. It’s a perspective that puts very little faith in his ability to develop or their ability to develop him, which is completely fair, especially as a fan of this team, but may not align with how they think about the guy they took #2 overall last year or their ability to develop him.

So I think it’s a possible justification for sure, but no individual player you apply that criteria to will give a black and white answer. I suppose you could say more is always better but, say you get Jets’ Le’Veon Bell with dead legs - which maybe happens with Allen Robinson for example. Now you’re stuck with a high paid veteran who can’t get open when you might have been better off with a young guy who has no clue what he’s doing yet but at least can beat coverage.

In an attempt to be brief, I also think a) he tries to avoid cutting guys when he can, so cap space is always less than it could be and b) draft picks hit rates are always going to be mixed and the team has so many needs after years of bad drafting that they’ll have a bunch next offseason too.

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41 minutes ago, derp said:

Oh yeah I’m absolutely no better.

Not to be repetitive, but the end goal is obviously a Super Bowl and that’s where I set the bar. I think we can agree they’re not a Super Bowl contender this year - to be fair that’s probably what Bengals fans thought entering this season.

As I said in my first couple of posts and you said here, supporting Wilson’s development would be justification for spending next year’s money this year. No argument on that. I do think it’s complicated to demonstrate that the difference between Wilson’s success and failure as an NFL player would be the presence of - since we’re in this thread, Amari Cooper - and so I think there’s a wide grey area there. Obviously if the Jets felt that would be the difference they would have acquired him. It’s a perspective that puts very little faith in his ability to develop or their ability to develop him, which is completely fair, especially as a fan of this team, but may not align with how they think about the guy they took #2 overall last year or their ability to develop him.

So I think it’s a possible justification for sure, but no individual player you apply that criteria to will give a black and white answer. I suppose you could say more is always better but, say you get Jets’ Le’Veon Bell with dead legs - which maybe happens with Allen Robinson for example. Now you’re stuck with a high paid veteran who can’t get open when you might have been better off with a young guy who has no clue what he’s doing yet but at least can beat coverage.

In an attempt to be brief, I also think a) he tries to avoid cutting guys when he can, so cap space is always less than it could be and b) draft picks hit rates are always going to be mixed and the team has so many needs after years of bad drafting that they’ll have a bunch next offseason too.

It wasn’t about Cooper specifically. More that the Jets can acquire anyone they want to further Wilson’s development without screening themselves over & forcing them to do without in other areas.

They’ll get plenty of cap relief from higher dollar players currently on the roster who are no locks to still be here after 2022 (never mind after 2023), and they’ll be financially able to retain any draft picks they want, so long as there’s agreement on a number by both sides.

Whether it’s Cooper or Robinson or whomever, they’re not locked in for half a decade, and if/when the time comes to part early it’ll be fine and will still provide cap relief so long as they don’t go overboard on backpacking.

The amount it’d take to screw themselves isn’t an amount they can/would realistically spend unless the literally go after every top FA and then further surrender a pair of 1s for a FT’d player on top of that. 

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1 minute ago, 65 Toss Power Trap said:

There is no obvious Chase in this years’ draft. You’re making my point. 
 

I’m not making your point, who knows there’s maybe a receiver that at least as good as Cooper at 10 , that we can have under contract for at least 4/5 years for cheap. Paying 20m per for Cooper when we can draft one for a faction of the cost is the way to go. 

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It's interesting that there didn't seem to be much interest league wide in Cooper's services. Seems like the Browns might have been just about the only suitor? I mean, to get an unbelievable, game changing WR for a 5th rd pick? There's going to be more interest in Berrios.

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5 minutes ago, TheNuuFaaolaExperience said:

Corey Davis is not terrible, and he is a better receiver than Berrios. 

Wasn’t last year. Hard to compare  because they play entirely different position. Yet, kinda safe to say Berrios  does what he does better than Corey what Davis did. Yet, Corey Davis had a great pre-season. 

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1 minute ago, The Crusher said:

Wasn’t last year. Hard to compare  because they play entirely different position. Yet, kinda safe to say Berrios  does what he does better than Corey what Davis did. Yet, Corey Davis had a great pre-season. 

Corey Davis could play the slot. Berrios is not playing wide out. I am a big Berrios fan, but he is not in the same league as Davis, and I am not even saying that Davis is all that great.

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6 minutes ago, TheNuuFaaolaExperience said:

Corey Davis could play the slot. Berrios is not playing wide out. I am a big Berrios fan, but he is not in the same league as Davis, and I am not even saying that Davis is all that great.

Maybe not in same league but definitely played  better last year. More clutch, more sure handed and only missed one game to injury. Zach tried to lean  on Corey early in the season and Corey dropped the ball on that, literally. Berri S  became the man for Zach and literally took a game  or two over. Davis had couple pretty catches but for the most part was a non-factor. Going by last year only Berrios  > Davis and it’s not particularly close. If we want to talk Potential  going forward I’d like to offer this…..

 

 

 

FREE DENZEL!

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20 hours ago, Rhg1084 said:

Guess Douglas didn’t wanna part with a 5th rounder 

Or maybe the Cowboy's didn't want to deal with the Jets.  Or Cooper didn't want to be traded to the Jets.  Or, Or Or.....

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Just now, The Crusher said:

Maybe not in same league but definitely okayed better last year. More clutch, more sure handed and only missed one game to injury. Zach tried ti Jean on Corey early in the season and Corey dropped the ball on that, literally. Berries became the man for Zach and literally took a game  or two over. Davis had couple pretty catches but for the most part was a non-factor. Going by last year only Berrios  > Davis and it’s not particularly close. If we want to talk Potential  going forward I’s like to offer this…..

 

 

 

FREE DENZEL!

Corey Davis - 9 games, 492 yards, 4 TDs.

Braxton Berrios as WR - 16 games, 431 yards, 2 TDs. 

Berrios had a higher catch rate. Davis had a better season. 

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20 hours ago, SR24 said:

If he didn’t trade a 5th for Cooper there’s no way he’s going to trade for DK and then extend him

So in your expert opinion Cooper and DK are equals?  If you dont want to trade for a WR on the decline you wouldnt feel differently than one on the rise

 

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10 minutes ago, TheNuuFaaolaExperience said:

Corey Davis - 9 games, 492 yards, 4 TDs.

Braxton Berrios as WR - 16 games, 431 yards, 2 TDs. 

Berrios had a higher catch rate. Davis had a better season. 

Yes if they both were our #4 slot / return guys. But Davis was brought in the be a # 1 and he failed miserably at it. Berrios picked up the slack that Davis left out there and made the most of it. Corey Davis is considered one of the worst FA acquisitions from last year. Berios made the pro bowl and earned himself a sweet contract someplace else. So in this case the numbers? They lie! 

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47 minutes ago, TheNuuFaaolaExperience said:

Corey Davis is not terrible, and he is a better receiver than Berrios. 

There are two types of players according to many on this site.  All Pro or trash.  There is no in between.

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37 minutes ago, BurnleyJet said:

I’m not making your point, who knows there’s maybe a receiver that at least as good as Cooper at 10 , that we can have under contract for at least 4/5 years for cheap. Paying 20m per for Cooper when we can draft one for a faction of the cost is the way to go. 

You've made my point. (1) There is not a Chase in this year's draft. (2) You qualify there might be a receiver of Cooper's caliber at 10 with the word "maybe." (3) You claim that drafting a WR is a "way to go." That is your opinion. How has it worked out for the Jets? How does it work out for other teams? You don't know that it is the way to go.

It may end up being the way to go and maybe not. My point is that it is unknown. Drafting a WR is not the clear better move than taking Cooper. Let me be clear, I'm not saying I would take Cooper over drafting a wide receiver. My initial post you responded to was making the point that there is no guarantee other way. There are posters acting like the decision is clear in this case. It is not. 

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20 hours ago, SR24 said:

“We can just draft one in the first round” how’d that workout for John Ross, N’keal Harry, Henry Ruggs, Corey Coleman, Jalen Reagor I could go on and on. Drafting a 1st round WR guarantees nothing!!!!!!! We don’t need more rookies we need some proven vets with upside. How’d being the youngest team in the league workout last year??

You want to list all the "star" WRs who were traded like a S Holmes, OBJ, TO etc, etc that didnt work out?

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8 minutes ago, The Crusher said:

Yes if they both were our #4 slot / return guys. But Davis was brought in the be a # 1 and he failed miserably at it. Berrios picked up the slack that Davis left out there and made the most of it. Corey Davis is considered one of the worst FA acquisitions from last year. Berios made the pro bowl and earned himself a sweet contract someplace else. So in this case the numbers? They lie! 

I don't like it when you disagree with me.

I agree that Corey Davis had a disappointing year. He had a season ending injury, which may or may not have affected his game play. He also had Zach Wilson as his QB. Berrios would have had 700 yards with a QB who wasn't skipping passes to his receivers. 

A healthy Corey Davis with a leveled-up Zach Wilson is going to have a nice bounce back year. 

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4 hours ago, Smashmouth said:

People here over rate players all the time. Cooper is not the player that can step in here and be a number 1 guy. He has played on teams loaded with offensive talent so he never had to be the number one guy or the focal point of an offense. Coming here would have put him in that position and I'm not sure he's that type of player. He's inconsistent, has a huge game here and there which IMHO pad his stats, then just plays ordinary . 2 games over 100 yards last year 104 targets 69 catches. As I said in other threads Cooper is a number 2 WR and the Jets have 2 of those. He belongs in an established offense and in an ordinary offense he's not going to be the guy who changes things. We need a big target possession guy who can move the chains and be fearless over the middle and currently we don't have that and Amari Cooper is NOT that guy. If you guys want to pile up a pack of number 2's your going to have exactly that a pile of number 2's and this offense will not have "that guy" everyone needs to account for. There are about 15 guys in the NFL that fit that mold and Cooper is not one of them. Maybe there's one in the draft lets see what that amounts too before paying freaking Amari Cooper 20 mil per .... This has absolutely nothing to do with a draft pick especially not a 5 or 6th rounder . 

2021 season stats
  • REC. Tied-38th.
  • YDS. 865. 34th.
  • TD. Tied-16th.
  • AVG. 12.7. 47th.
Jun 18, 1994

What about the 2 seasons prior to that?

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20 hours ago, GreenFish said:

Wait until Berrios signs with the Bills. sh*t around here is about to get ugly. 

You know whats ugly?

When someone posts that they cant wait for (insert something they think is disastrous) sh*t around here is about to get ugly. 

The same post we get from so many oatmeal brains

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28 minutes ago, The Crusher said:

Yes if they both were our #4 slot / return guys. But Davis was brought in the be a # 1 and he failed miserably at it. Berrios picked up the slack that Davis left out there and made the most of it. Corey Davis is considered one of the worst FA acquisitions from last year. Berios made the pro bowl and earned himself a sweet contract someplace else. So in this case the numbers? They lie! 

Davis was disappointing.  Not going to get any argument from me.  But I am not giving up on him after one injury plagued season.  Through 6 games, he was on pace for 65 - 70 receptions, 950-1,000 yards and 10+ TDs.  Only played 3 more games the rest of the season.  He was never a true #1 WR (and at 3 yrs, $37M he was not paid like one), but I still think he can be a very good, productive receiver for us in 2022.

At least thats my story and I am sticking to it, for now.

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19 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

So in your expert opinion Cooper and DK are equals?  If you dont want to trade for a WR on the decline you wouldnt feel differently than one on the rise

 

Lmao what are you talking about?? Obviously everyone would rather have DK but he will cost more and requires an extension as he’s scheduled to be a FA next year. Likely going to get north of $20mil. What have you seen from Joe D that makes you think he’d shell out #10, plus more picks for DK and then extend him to a $22/mil a year contract?? He could have traded Herndon for Cooper and decided not to, he’s not going to pay the cost to acquire DK and then extend him as well. I’d build a Joe D statue if he did, but he’s not going to. 
 

 

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21 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

You want to list all the "star" WRs who were traded like a S Holmes, OBJ, TO etc, etc that didnt work out?

Idk that OBJ trade kinda worked out well for the Rams…. Anyways my point is the draft isn’t a lock to bring you a stud and ive seen too much “just draft one” at some point you have to add quality veteran players especially when your QB is on a rookie deal. Sure maybe we get  a. Jamar Chase like prospect this year, but we can also get a John Ross too. Ya never know! 

You may not like Cooper and that’s ok, but he’s 27 and is averaging over 1k yds, 80 catches and 7 tds over the last 3 years.  His “20mil a year contract” actually has 2 team options for the next 2 years that would allow him to be cut at $0 cap hit. I think you make that gamble for a 5th round pick

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10 minutes ago, Lith said:

Davis was disappointing.  Not going to get any argument from me.  But I am not giving up on him after one injury plagued season.  Through 6 games, he was on pace for 65 - 70 receptions, 950-1,000 yards and 10+ TDs.  Only played 3 more games the rest of the season.  He was never a true #1 WR (and at 3 yrs, $37M he was not paid like one), but I still think he can be a very good, productive receiver for us in 2022.

At least thats my story and I am sticking to it, for now.

Hope he’s better this year too. Just kinda extra cold on him because I felt some of his drops came at a bad time and knocked Zach out of a rhythm trying to move the chains. Yes, hopefully he has a better year, we need to accept he’s a number 2 and go get a guy who can take the double teams on and still make plays. That’s not Corey Davis, that’s ok, if we do that then I think I’ll join you in next years optimism. If not? Same old same old. 

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19 hours ago, oatmeal said:

This

Im so angry at this lying a** GM it’s insane.
 

Only thing that can make this better is a DK trade which I highlyyyyy doubt happens at this point 

Were you unloved as a child?  Who lied to you?  Get over yourself, no one cares if you feel like JD has lied to you or anyone 

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22 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

You know whats ugly?

When someone posts that they cant wait for (insert something they think is disastrous) sh*t around here is about to get ugly. 

The same post we get from so many oatmeal brains

Awww look at you, the smartest turd in the room is here. Hello 👋 

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Just now, Jet Nut said:

Were you unloved as a child?  Who lied to you?  Get over yourself, no one cares if you feel like JD has lied to you or anyone 

You sure do tbh, you literally are on a downvote rampage on me right now….

Buttttttt you don’t care 🤷‍♂️

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11 minutes ago, SR24 said:

Lmao what are you talking about?? Obviously everyone would rather have DK but he will cost more and requires an extension as he’s scheduled to be a FA next year. Likely going to get north of $20mil. What have you seen from Joe D that makes you think he’d shell out #10, plus more picks for DK and then extend him to a $22/mil a year contract?? He could have traded Herndon for Cooper and decided not to, he’s not going to pay the cost to acquire DK and then extend him as well. I’d build a Joe D statue if he did, but he’s not going to. 
 

 

And what are you talking about?  DK is the better player, by every measure but he would cost us?  Yeah, and hes worth it.  Only one team thought Cooper was worth he $20 per/$60M.  Not the stupid draft capital, the $$.  

DK is worth it.  Whats your point of contention?

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2 minutes ago, oatmeal said:

Awww look at you, the smartest turd in the room is here. Hello 👋 

Youre proving this completely wrong with your incredibly childish ranting 

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Just now, Jet Nut said:

And what are you talking about?  DK is the better player, by every measure but he would cost us?  Yeah, and hes worth it.  Only one team thought Cooper was worth he $20 per/$60M.  Not the stupid draft capital, the $$.  

DK is worth it.  Whats your point of contention?

Lmaoooo as if because @Jet Nut sack typed “DK is better by every measurable” makes that a fact 😂🤣😂

 

And I’m sure Seattle will trade a young stud WR because you said so too

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