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Amari Cooper traded to Browns


Rhg1084
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The Jets have so many holes, they need to be looking under every crevice to get starter caliber players on this roster.  The draft is merely one way.  I'm talking about starters, not warm bodies.  The thing about adding someone like Cooper is, at bare minimum, it shifts people in their proper place in WR.  The great thing is if for example, Moore has the talent to be #1, then you have Moore against a defender who would be lesser than him talent wise.  

That's the beauty of getting some one a la Allen Robinson or Cooper.  Even if he was not a #1 but a serviceable #2, having a bunch of 2s between him, Moore, and Davis would still cause defenses fits.  Additionally, frees up precious draft capital to take the players you definitely want not have to settle for need.  I get it the Jets just need good/great players in general, but for a 4th round pick at best, Cooper should be a jet!

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25 minutes ago, jetstream23 said:

That said, JD still needs to make a move for a significant veteran FA WR

Yes, but the FA WR in question needs to be a deep threat, stretch-the-field type. That’s not necessarily a WR1 like Cooper with his 20million salary to boot.
I think the WR1 will be drafted.

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2 hours ago, Rhg1084 said:

Jets blow it again 

 

2 hours ago, Rhg1084 said:

Guess Douglas didn’t wanna part with a 5th rounder 

By this logic, so did 29 other teams.  Everyone could have beat that offer.  Wonder why that is?  I can think of 20 Million Reasons.  

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8 minutes ago, johnnysd said:

Because Cooper was the only possible way to get Zach more weapons?

I remember how folks were saying this to me for ten years and I'm still waiting for the Jets to get a bonafide #1 WR in here! I mean someone of the 1000 yards per year variety........

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Jets have too many holes to spend $20M on a WR who's past his prime.  Yes, Jets need another good WR as well as one or two TEs.  But let's not forget Jets finished dead last in defense last year.  Both points and yards allowed!  We will have to see but I think JD will spend money on defensive FAs and draft a WR and TEs.

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7 minutes ago, Charlie Brown said:

I remember how folks were saying this to me for ten years and I'm still waiting for the Jets to get a bonafide #1 WR in here! I mean someone of the 1000 yards per year variety........

And if Cooper was coming here, you'd still be waiting. That's the point.  And everyone is still conveniently ignoring how he disappears in big games and how he dogged it in the playoff game, refusing to block on running plays.  There is no way in the world a WR will play in the NYJ/SF system unless he is not only a willing, but a superior run blocker.  But the SOJFs just want to look at Cooper's career numbers and he is the bright shiny object.  

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46 minutes ago, jetstream23 said:

If you don't have $20M you CAN'T trade for Cooper.

The market for this Pro Bowler was limited to those who could afford him, not only those who wanted him.

yeah but we dont either.

according to over the cap we need 13 Mil to sign our draft picks. plus we need money to go into the season with to sign guys to replace injured ones. or for trades like we did with LDT. how much does that cost?  maybe 10 mil. we dont want to be like the Giants last year and run out of cap space by the end of the season.

so in reality we only have around 20 mil. and a bunch of holes. yeah JD can makes some moves to get us more cap space but it wont be enough to fill all the other holes.

 

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21 minutes ago, Charlie Brown said:

I remember how folks were saying this to me for ten years and I'm still waiting for the Jets to get a bonafide #1 WR in here! I mean someone of the 1000 yards per year variety........

Well, I am not sure youd have gotten that with Cooper. 

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1 hour ago, DoubleDecker said:

tbh honest I don't think they extend him.  They may restructure due to the cap hit, but I think there is little to no dead money after this year.

Well, no reason to not spend that kind of draft capital to bring him in on a one year deal, albeit a very expensive one.

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1 hour ago, johnnysd said:

Instead of just ranting and trolling why dont you put forth your brilliant plan. FA and the draft havent even happened and all you can do is trash the GM

Trash a trash GM… hmmm

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1 hour ago, johnnysd said:

Why exactly? He was better than Cooper last year, will be cheaper and 4 years younger. Not saying he is elite but he's arguably at this point every bit as good as Cooper. And Kirk played 7 games without Hopkins to help. He has upside where Cooper is definitely declining.

Yeah I was wrong, I just looked at his stats. Slot guy too which we need. Okay 

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4 hours ago, CanadienJetsFan said:

Smart move by JD. The guy’s too expensive and with so much draft capital, he’s best off drafting a guy who will grow old with Zach.

20 million will go a long way filling some holes like at RG, and on defensive 

I feel like signing Allen Robinson and drafting a receiver in round 1 or 2 will be the perfect situation. A vet to help immediately and a top rookie to bring along nicely and be ready to step up the following year. Since no Ridley, that would be my plan.

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2 hours ago, jetstream23 said:

Very possible.

Question - Would you rather have an experienced, Pro Bowl caliber WR for the #114 draft pick if he's expensive but you can afford him?  Or, would you rather use a valuable #10 pick on a younger, cheaper guy who may need time to develop?

Talent trumps experience.

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Jet fans are really upset about this? He sucks. I was hoping the the whole week a different team would trade for him. 

So Happy we have Joe Douglas here that doesn't get pressured into these moves. Such a disconnect between what fans think of players and the league thinks of players. 

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8 minutes ago, Shockwave said:

Jet fans are really upset about this? He sucks. I was hoping the the whole week a different team would trade for him. 

So Happy we have Joe Douglas here that doesn't get pressured into these moves. Such a disconnect between what fans think of players and the league thinks of players. 

100%

this is a dude making 20/m a year, who was in an offense where they passed it on every down, and he frequently was nowhere to be found.

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7 hours ago, BurntDice said:

Why? Look at a lot of teams who run this system. Short quick timing routes. It’s a run heavy scheme. TEs are heavily used in this system. 12 personnel is used a lot. Having 2 #2s and a good te is completely fine for success. There’s also this thing called the draft, not sure if you’ve heard of it. 

The teams that use a similar system (GB and SF) both have an elite WR and SF has a really good TE.  The Jets don't have anything like that.  Hell they don't even have a legit TE on the roster.

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4 minutes ago, adb280z said:

The teams that use a similar system (GB and SF) both have an elite WR and SF has a really good TE.  The Jets don't have anything like that.  Hell they don't even have a legit TE on the roster.

Is deebo really an elite wr? I don’t think so. The system uses him very very well. 

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6 minutes ago, BurntDice said:

Is deebo really an elite wr? I don’t think so. The system uses him very very well. 

He had 1400 yards last year and another 365 on the ground.  Yeah, that's elite.

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17 minutes ago, adb280z said:

He had 1400 yards last year and another 365 on the ground.  Yeah, that's elite.

No I mean watching him is he elite? Would he be elite in a different system? He’s not the traditional #1 receiver you think of. All I’m saying is that they use him perfectly. 
 

There’s also more than just those 2 teams who run it. The Brown’s, titans, and rams do as well. The jets and dolphins now too. There may be more than I’m missing, not sure. 

 

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3 hours ago, Shockwave said:

He sucks. 

He's the main reason Dak Prescott got the giant contract. Dak threw for around 200 yards per game before Cooper, and for 300 yards per game after getting him. He's the single best route runner in the game. He takes on the best defenders. He makes all receivers around him more productive. He's extremely intelligent. He's often playing chess while the defender is playing checkers. 

Whether or not the Jets should have taken him, he's worth every penny he's making.

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8 minutes ago, BurntDice said:

No I mean watching him is he elite? Would he be elite in a different system? He’s not the traditional #1 receiver you think of. All I’m saying is that they use him perfectly. 

Is how he's used really that different than other WRs?  

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5 hours ago, BurnleyJet said:

Talent trumps experience.

The problem is: The perceived talent of the WRs in the draft does not always translate to talented NFL Player.

Case Example: Denzel Jeremiah Mims, 6'3"; 4.3 seconds 40 yard dash; as fast as Julio Jones; larger hands than Julio Jones; longer arms than Julio Jones

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7 minutes ago, adb280z said:

Is how he's used really that different than other WRs?  

Lots of short stuff in the backfield. His average depth of target is only 8 yards. Chase was 12, DK 12.4, Hopkins 12.4, Diggs 11.1, Cooper 11.5 etc 

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Just now, BurntDice said:

Lots of short stuff in the backfield. His average depth of target is only 8 yards. Chase was 12, DK 12.4, Diggs 11.1 etc 

That he was able to turn all that short stuff into 1400 yards shows that he's elite.  A lesser player wouldn't be able to do that.

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14 minutes ago, adb280z said:

That he was able to turn all that short stuff into 1400 yards shows that he's elite.  A lesser player wouldn't be able to do that.

Or is it the system? I’m not saying he’s not good, but would he have that kind of production in a more standard system?

This offense (especially when coached by mcvay and Shannahan) is based around getting YAC and running the ball. Deebo is a solid blocker and great at YAC. He’s perfect for the system. 

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7 hours ago, derp said:

Borrowing from the next year is certainly relative, but whether or not there’s a logic to it they’re still borrowing from the next year. I’m not talking about things going downhill rapidly, just the basic premise of using next year’s cap space to fit more players on the roster this year - when they team certainly isn’t going to be competing for a Super Bowl. 

Also feel like they were in a similar situation last year with the 2022 cap. The current 2023 number is missing two years of rookie pools, multi-year free agents from this offseason, extensions/re-signings (Fant being a big one, McGovern maybe). They’ll certainly have space next offseason but it goes away fast.

Again, get the Wilson argument, but that’s about it. I’d just rather they work on maximizing a team when it’s competitive. If Douglas can’t get the team to be playing meaningful December games in the second year of a new system with the current draft capital and $35M of money to spend in his third full offseason, he’s probably not the guy for the job and I’d rather give the new guy a cleaner slate.

Ordinarily I might agree, but this isn't ordinary because the team's added an unusually high number of draft picks in a short span, while one of them is a QB that lowers their veteran-spending needs that much further.

Next year they'll have lesser veteran $ needs than they have this spring. If Douglas doesn't **** up this draft, since he's got so many high picks he should come away with 5 new starters from this draft. At least 2-3 of them should be either replacing existing higher-priced veterans or should eliminate the need to go out and "buy" them in FA. It's the same result either way: 3 more quality starters that require 3 fewer veteran salaries.

e.g. say they did add a veteran WR like Robinson (or a similarly significant WR contract they'll be guaranteed to for at least the upcoming 2 seasons). Now say they further draft a WR at #10 or in round 2. This draftee could/should make Davis expendable in 2023, and knocks off his $10.5MM from next year's cap. Then further they also draft a LB to make Mosley's $17MM salary expendable. Also figure they'll draft a TE, but look at it from the other direction: it's not a current veteran that becomes cuttable so much as it's a new serious veteran FA TE they won't need to sign or trade for at $11-12MM per. That's cutting about $35MM more from 2023 than they'd otherwise spend on those 3 positions/players.

In that scenario they'll be looking at a number approaching or exceeding $120MM in 2023 cap space (yes, before factoring in Fant/McGovern). It's not a hard argument to make that furthering Wilson's development now is worth spending $20MM more this year and a mere $100MM in cap space next year instead of all $120MM of it in 2023 -- an amount they wouldn't possibly use up anyway unless they're spending just to spend. More importantly, with 8+ fewer needs filled between 2022's FA and draft, that lower amount of $100MM is still so high there isn't any player they'll want to add that they couldn't. 

That's still without later deciding if C.Lawson isn't worth $15MM, whereby if they sign someone else, matching with a 2022 drafted edge rusher playing the other side:  the majority of that new signing's money will be offset by cutting Lawson. So if they did want to sign a $20MM edge rusher in FA a year from now, his net additional cap charge will be just $5MM (and even that's if Douglas decides to unnecessarily have that new edge's contract hit the cap equally each year); if he is worth keeping, even better.

I get the idea that it can be a slippery slope, but one has to look at the bigger picture specific to this team at this time instead of adhering a generic soft rule: this is a team with a lot of draft picks (again) and a gargantuan amount of cap space next year. The dirty word of "borrowing" - $20MM, give or take, from 2023 in this scenario - isn't the dirty word it might be under normal situations. 

If the team had $60MM of projected cap space in 2022 and 2023 each, few would advocate only spending $10MM of it this year so the team could instead have $110MM in space a year later. Not while directive #1 is removing all excuses from their young QB who had so many rookie struggles. 

At some point they have to start winning some games in the present instead of always taking the position that cap space would be of better use next year (when they won't possibly need $100MM more cap space to fill out the roster). 

Sorry about the length, but it's what I do, and you're not that much better lol. 

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1 hour ago, 65 Toss Power Trap said:

The problem is: The perceived talent of the WRs in the draft does not always translate to talented NFL Player.

Case Example: Denzel Jeremiah Mims, 6'3"; 4.3 seconds 40 yard dash; as fast as Julio Jones; larger hands than Julio Jones; longer arms than Julio Jones

And reasons he was taken in round 2.

Can’t run a full route tree, lazy and unfocused.  

I raise you Ja'Marr Anthony Chase shorter lighter and 10 times better.

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