Justified or no?

[Augustiniak]

If anything i think douglas balked at cooper after seeing how davis was last year.  And I’m not really concerned about douglas not taking wrs early, he’s taken 2 in the 2nd round in his first 2 drafts, so he hasn’t ignored the position.  

[Butterfield]

How many years until the Jets start over again?  

[Matt39]

8 hours ago, Larz said:

JD invested a lot in Becton, Lawson and Mims and here we are considering investing in OT, Esge and WR. 
 

Fails to extend Berrios, Foley and Q.  
 

Q is the next one out the door, traded for the magical draft capital and cap space 

Douglas has been flat out bad. 

[tfine]

No. Not justified.
Nobody is saying we have fill all of those holes with free agents.
A 5th this year and a 6th next year for a 20 mil receiver that will instantly become the best weapon on the team is not 'irresponsible'.
With four picks in the top 38, you can knock out four of those needs right there, have traded for Cooper, signed a starting vet RG and a bunch of depth players.
I'm not even a huge Cooper fan, but after seeing the price, I'm pissed. Royally pissed
[/url]  

You can’t look at the price you have to look at his salary. I bet you any money JD willing to the trade if he agreed to a restructuring. The Browns did it without the restructure. Trust me if this was just about trade compensation Dallas would’ve taken our higher round picks. Dallas just wanted to unload that salary. They didn’t care about the comp.





Sent from my iPhone using JetNation.com mobile app

[Dunnie]

No. Not justified.
Nobody is saying we have fill all of those holes with free agents.
A 5th this year and a 6th next year for a 20 mil receiver that will instantly become the best weapon on the team is not 'irresponsible'.
With four picks in the top 38, you can knock out four of those needs right there, have traded for Cooper, signed a starting vet RG and a bunch of depth players.
I'm not even a huge Cooper fan, but after seeing the price, I'm pissed. Royally pissed
 

Unless you are planning on being irrelevant again this year as ANOTHER lost season ... spending SOME cashola during FA is a given.

Let's see what happens this week.

[Dunnie]

Connor is complete human waste. Gotta love the ones where he contradicts himself in the same tweet though 

I think he tries hard .. he just grew up in an era where that was good enough. Not his fault ... never sensed any douchbaggery from him.

[Dunnie]

We have a stud!

 
 

Really ? Who ... I think we need one of these....

[JustInFudge]

2 hours ago, T0mShane said:

Maybe Connor can explain how the Browns have better players than the Jets at literally every position on their roster but can somehow afford Amari Cooper.

Seriously, how do the Rams do it, every single year? 

[FidelioJet]

Conner is way over simplifying this to, seemingly, protect JD.   
 

Jets have big money coming off the books next year, that would allow him to restructure a lot this year to add big ticket players and still be in good shape next year.  
Like every other good team.  
 

I’ve been with JD’s tear down strategy…and the rebuild would really start this off season   

but I’m starting to worry that maybe I was completely wrong and it’s not a tear down strategy but just the long term way he plans on managing the roster, from a position of comfort with the cap. 

[Augustiniak]

5 minutes ago, JiFapono said:

Seriously, how do the Rams do it, every single year? 

Missing the point.  These jets gms come in and first have to clean up the bad cap situation from the prior gm.  They preach not spending and building thru the draft.  They get a grace period and tell us to be patient.  At some point they have a lot of cap room but can’t attract good FAs b/c they have no qb.  So they sell the narrative they’re being prudent.  But when the owner gives the mandate he wants to see improvement now, then the gm spends it all on bad contracts out of desperation and when the jets inevitably suck the gm gets fired and the cycle starts all over again.  

It’s not that the jets can’t do it fiscally, they can.  But as soon as douglas goes all in his employment clock ticks faster if he doesn’t get results.  Douglas isn’t ready to declare he’s ready to go all in yet, but if woody is, then he’s going to start spending.  My guess is that he has this offseason and season to demonstrate that the team is on the right track, before douglas is given the ‘or else’ speech.  

[FidelioJet]

9 minutes ago, JiFapono said:

Seriously, how do the Rams do it, every single year? 

Because when Davis, Lawson and Mosley come off the books next year you’re freeing up $50mm.  That should be replaced with  the premium picks this year and in Mosley’s and Davis’s case upgraded for far less money.  
So you restructure some things this year and over pay guys like Cooper to make the team better now.
I’m not giving up on JD yet, but if Hughes is correct and once again the Jets go into next offseason with top 5 cap space (coming off a 6;7 win season) he’s clearly showing he doesn’t understand the league.  

[Dunnie]

Because when Davis, Lawson and Mosley come off the books next year you’re freeing up $50mm.  That should be replaced with  the premium picks this year and in Mosley’s and Davis’s case upgraded for far less money.  
So you restructure some things this year and over pay guys like Cooper to make the team better now.
I’m not giving up on JD yet, but if Hughes is correct and once again the Jets go into next offseason with top 5 cap space (coming off a 6;7 win season) he’s clearing showing he doesn’t understand the league.  

Although Lawson was a long term explorarion as was Davis.

[Jethead]

If the Jets wanted Cooper, he was affordable. He's not a Jet, ergo they didn't want him. 

JDs job to make those choices. I'm ok with that and look forward to what our post draft roster will look like.

IMO, for all the haters JD and RS will get at least this year and 2 more before any change is contemplated. I'd suggest Valium. 

[JustInFudge]

1 hour ago, FidelioJet said:

Because when Davis, Lawson and Mosley come off the books next year you’re freeing up $50mm.  That should be replaced with  the premium picks this year and in Mosley’s and Davis’s case upgraded for far less money.  
So you restructure some things this year and over pay guys like Cooper to make the team better now.
I’m not giving up on JD yet, but if Hughes is correct and once again the Jets go into next offseason with top 5 cap space (coming off a 6;7 win season) he’s clearly showing he doesn’t understand the league.  

I don’t know how this explains how the Rams do it but thanks! 

[FidelioJet]

4 minutes ago, JiFapono said:

I don’t know how this explains how the Rams do it but thanks! 

Wow.    And then you wonder why.  

[playtowinthegame]

I hope we have enough money left to re-sign that beast Dan Feeney.

[JetsFanatic]

10 hours ago, Beerfish said:

If they pay Joe Flacco any more than league minimum Douglas has become Ken Holland and needs to be jettisoned.

I have no problem with them bringing Flacco back but, I agree, I wouldn’t break the bank on it. 

[JustInFudge]

34 minutes ago, FidelioJet said:

Wow.    And then you wonder why.  

Wonder why?  Tell me more 

[sec101row23]

2 hours ago, Augustiniak said:

If anything i think douglas balked at cooper after seeing how davis was last year.  And I’m not really concerned about douglas not taking wrs early, he’s taken 2 in the 2nd round in his first 2 drafts, so he hasn’t ignored the position.  

Not only that, but I’m sure he reached out to Coopers representation and asked how Amari would feel coming here.  They probably told JD that they would prefer to go elsewhere.   Why would JD trade for and then pay $20M per year to a guy he would have had to drag kicking and screaming to come here?   

[Darnold's Forehead]

2 hours ago, oatmeal said:

This 

 

These JD fanboys will believe any lie coming from the Jets propaganda machine. JD and Saleh are trying to build this team with last generations approach. It’s all about the QB now in this league and this dinosaur GM is completely clueless 

You’re right, QB now.  Package Zach with some picks for Watson.  He’ll make Davis and Moore look great and missing out on Cooper will be forgotten real quick.  Whatever remaining FA and picks can be used on defense.

[Joe W. Namath]

2 hours ago, Dunnie said:

Unless you are planning on being irrelevant again this year as ANOTHER lost season ... spending SOME cashola during FA is a given.

Let's see what happens this week.

This upcoming season will be neither irrelevant or lost.  It will be year 2 of a ground up rebuild where all of our young players are going to get a ton of experience and improve.

Winning becomes the #1 goal in 2023.  This year, getting this young talent up to speed is the #1 goal.

[BigRy56]

Fair points but it was a missed opportunity to make the offense better.

I’m not there yet but if JD doesn’t close this week out with at least 1 impact signing on either side of the ball that moves the needle then he is trending in the wrong direction 

[Barry McCockinner]

12 hours ago, Hal N of Provo said:

Your keeping GVR etc… huh? 

Why hasn't GVR already been released though? The fact that he's still on the roster costs me sleep every night.

[doitny]

7 hours ago, Sperm Edwards said:

The cap room people loosely use in the preseason presumes everyone currently on the roster will remain on the roster, and from there you'd just start adding money for a rookie pool and new veteran signings. In practice, each addition displaces someone else. So Hughes's math is wrong because he's just adding to the Jets' cap totals without subtracting the existing players these newcomers displace. The Jets still only go into the season with 53 guys on the roster; not the current top 53 plus the rookie pool plus the other FAs they sign. 

Also they probably aren't going to head into the season with Griffin anyway (or not at that money). He's on the roster now because there's no need to cut him yet. But figure they're signing someone else to be the TE1/2 and draft a TE prob in round 2. Griffin's overpriced as a TE3, so if they do keep him it'd be at a lower figure, possibly guaranteeing him a roster spot in exchange for a pay cut to the league minimum. He's a mediocre blocker who has just 350 yards and 2 TDs over the last 2 seasons combined as the team's TE1; isn't a stranger to the injury report; flat-out dropped a few passes last year despite running short routes; and turns 33 midseason 2023. Ergo, he's not a $3MM TE. At the league min they could pay him $1.12MM + $137K = $1.257MM and that'd hit the cap at $895K, or some $2.1MM less than he's currently due to hit.

Kickers don't cost dick unless you're getting a really great one, in which case they cost 1.4 dicks lol. Whether they go with Pineiro or he loses out to an UDFA or 7th rounder they pick up after trading down, it won't make a dent either way since kicker is a roster spot that'd merely displace another current roster spot. Net additional cap hit for a kicker = zero.

Flacco won't cost $5MM (or anyway, he shouldn't unless something very heavy fell on JD's head that morning). He's another year older than he was when he signed a contract last year with Philly for $3.5MM base plus playing time incentives, and it's all about how much interest there is from other teams. Douglas wanted to re-sign Flacco a year ago but wasn't willing to match what Philly paid, so if Flacco's in the $5MM range I don't think Douglas bites. $2MM ($3MM tops) seems closer to likely, at least as a base. Even if there are incentives  he reaches, they wouldn't hit the cap this year since he didn't hit them in 2021 (NLTBE).

Lastly, yeah we do kinda figure the QB3 to be at the league minimum. The QB3 cost you outline ($2-3MM) is $1-2MM more than what most teams pay for their QB2. Many don't even carry a QB3, deciding they're no worse off finding one off the street if it comes to that, and that the roster spot is better spent elsewhere. Instead they put the QB3 on the practice squad, since veterans are now allowed. They make like nothing ($14K/week) in comparison to rostered players.

Excuse my obnoxious tone; write it off to my issues, is it's just my way. Certainly nothing personal.  

np pal. i enjoy your posts. i never take it personal?

you make some valid points on the cap. but if you look at OTC 2022 salaries there are some positions like TE and QB that they only have one on the roster.

the point i was trying to make is that there are alot of spots to fill and everybody her wants better then we had right? so your right that Flacco made 3.5 mil but people here dont want him, they want better. i think Flacco has proved he can be a decent backup that can run this offense but the people here i think want someone younger who they can say if Wilson fails is that they found there new FQB. well that guy is going to cost more than 3.5 mil. 

Amendola and Pinero made the league min. if either comes back im sure they will want a raise. not much but everything adds up. or we can hear this board bitch and complain when we go with a rookie nobody at Kicker again.

just saying if we have too many holes to trade for Cooper. for that 20 mil we could get a starting RG and a WR4 that would be improvements.

everyone talks about Stephon Diggs here but they dont know he makes 14 mil against the cap. or did when he was traded. he still does but with a restructure on his contract hes up to 18 mil for the next 2 years. thats not 20 mil. not sure what Buffalo did to his contract last year, maybe they needed more money to sign other players but no they have to pay that back.

Stefon Diggs Contract Breakdowns, Salary Cap Figures, Salaries, Bonuses | Spotrac

New York Jets 2022 Salary Cap Table | Spotrac

 

[Guilhermezmc]

How the f is this team so trash and only have 25mil to spend please explain JD fans

[slimjasi]

It's not necessarily about Cooper to me - but the Jets need a really good veteran WR and Cooper was entirely gettable. 

If you can't afford Cooper who can you afford? Sometimes you have to pay more than you want for a player who can really help you. 

The Jets need players, whether they can "afford" them or not. 

[Sperm Edwards]

7 minutes ago, doitny said:

np pal. i enjoy your posts. i never take it personal?

you make some valid points on the cap. but if you look at OTC 2022 salaries there are some positions like TE and QB that they only have one on the roster.

the point i was trying to make is that there are alot of spots to fill and everybody her wants better then we had right? so your right that Flacco made 3.5 mil but people here dont want him, they want better. i think Flacco has proved he can be a decent backup that can run this offense but the people here i think want someone younger who they can say if Wilson fails is that they found there new FQB. well that guy is going to cost more than 3.5 mil. 

Amendola and Pinero made the league min. if either comes back im sure they will want a raise. not much but everything adds up. or we can hear this board bitch and complain when we go with a rookie nobody at Kicker again.

just saying if we have too many holes to trade for Cooper. for that 20 mil we could get a starting RG and a WR4 that would be improvements.

everyone talks about Stephon Diggs here but they dont know he makes 14 mil against the cap. or did when he was traded. he still does but with a restructure on his contract hes up to 18 mil for the next 2 years. thats not 20 mil. not sure what Buffalo did to his contract last year, maybe they needed more money to sign other players but no they have to pay that back.

Stefon Diggs Contract Breakdowns, Salary Cap Figures, Salaries, Bonuses | Spotrac

New York Jets 2022 Salary Cap Table | Spotrac

 

Good.

Players can only demand a raise when bargaining from a position of strength. Non-special special teams guys don’t qualify. Far better kickers get the league minimum. There’ll be no bidding war for Pineiro or Amendola.

Cooper isn’t the only player that folds that hole. But my greater point is they’d have no issues fitting a $20MM Cooper and anyone else on your wish list.

The thing that goes along with a player’s salary rising from year to year is the cap itself rising. Anyway Diggs is a bargain at $18MM anyway in this market. If Buffalo had won a championship no one would have cared about this side of the coin where he’s a whole $4MM more on a latter year or two if a restructure is what helped then get that ring.

Anyway the Jets don’t even need to get that extreme nor do they have those worries by year 2 of a new contract because they’ll part with enough veteran salaries (e.g. Mosley and probably at least one other) to cover that boost and more. 

[Sperm Edwards]

23 minutes ago, Barry McCockinner said:

Why hasn't GVR already been released though? The fact that he's still on the roster costs me sleep every night.

Truth is there’s no reason and his presence could at least, in theory, make the team seem less desperate while negotiating with his potential replacement(s).

It’s the right move or non-move, rather, at this juncture. Same with Griffin and more. Sign his replacement, and then they can put the Douglas squeeze on him, if they still want him as 3rd string, later on. They’re not going to run down to their last $3MM by the draft. No need.

But I won’t say I don’t sympathize lol. 

[section314]

36 minutes ago, sec101row23 said:

Not only that, but I’m sure he reached out to Coopers representation and asked how Amari would feel coming here.  They probably told JD that they would prefer to go elsewhere.   Why would JD trade for and then pay $20M per year to a guy he would have had to drag kicking and screaming to come here?   

I'll go one step further. JD reached out to his contacts in Philly and sought out their opinions on Cooper, knowing full well they could be honest because Cowboys would never trade him to a division foe. They play them twice a year. I think the simple reason is that the Jets had no interest in this guy, Period.

 

 

[BurntDice]

8 hours ago, Sperm Edwards said:

He's not right. He's counting the same money twice.

If you’re referring to LDT maybe he’s not viewing him as the starting guard. That makes sense to me. He would be a perfect backup. Can step in when needed, but shouldn’t be locked in as the starter 

[doitny]

2 hours ago, JiFapono said:

Seriously, how do the Rams do it, every single year? 

because they get more for their money than we do.

there top 2 salary guys from 2021 where Stafford and Darnold making 20 and 14 mil.

next is Ramsey at 9 mil but after that there is nobody above 5 mil.

their top 2 WRs Kupp and Jefferson made 5.3 and 1.2 mil

our top 2 Crowder and Cole made 6.3 and 5.4 mil

the OL really blows my mind.there 2 Tackles made 5.6 and 5.2 mil. their C and both guards made 3.5 mil... FOR ALL 3!!! thats a total of 14.3 mil to there OL.

us ? Fant 9.8, Mcg 9.3, AVT 2.8, Moses 4.3 and Becton 4.1 made a total of 30.3 mil. 

they just get better play from lower salary guys. 

[Jet2020]

12 hours ago, jeremy2020 said:

Remember, it's a 10 year plan. You won't be so critical in 2030 when they move up to 3rd in the AFC East

You're naive and out of your naive mind if you believe this was supposed to be a 10 year rebuild. Everybody knows it’s an 8 year rebuild. 

[Embrace the Suck]

19 hours ago, Larz said:

JD invested a lot in Becton, Lawson and Mims and here we are considering investing in OT, Esge and WR. 

In all fairness you usually start 2 OTs DEs WRs, and we had none of any. The first two could still hit; Mims, well sh*t happens.

[Lupz27]

14 hours ago, K_O_Brien said:

Hughes is right, we have holes all over the roster. 

But we don't need to bring in a top player for every position. It's ok to carry mediocre players in less valuable positions. Every successful team does that. And we don't need to address every need this year. It's ok to accept some positions may only be addressed next year. 

Realistically, we can probably sign two top players in free agency and we have four high draft picks in April. There's six starters that should come in and improve the team. I'd split those six players into three on offense and three on defense.

Which positions on offense do we need help the most? I'd say WR, RG and TE. When and how we address those position is largely irrevlant to me. At wide receiver, either sign Robinson or draft a guy at number 10. I don't care which. Either sign Scherff or Daniels or draft Ekwonu or Zion Johnson. We can't sign a TE or we'll need to draft one. 

Do the same with defense. Pick three positons you feel we need immediate help the most. We have more than three, so something will have to wait until next year. Edge? Sign Landry or draft your guy at 4 or 10. Corner? Carlton Davis or Sauce. Safety? Williams or a second round pick. 

If by the start of May we've added say, James Daniels, Garrett Wilson, Jeremy Ruckett, Quandre Diggs, Sauce Gardner and Boye Mafe (or similar type of players, names are interchangable really) to the roster then that is a successful off-season. 

See most teams address TE and S with 3-5th round picks.  It’s a must to hit on these positions, and a few others like C, and 3-4 MLB’s with those picks once every few years, the Jets have not.

[Hex]

Saying 'cap space' and 'flacco' in the same statement is always a red flag