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Joe D, his philosophy - dragging us into a respectable org like the Ravens


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7 minutes ago, ZachEY said:

Lots and lots of words... If Zach Wilson is good, this team will succeed.  If Zach Wilson is not good, this team will not.

Very true words. He has to be much better this year, and very serviceable. He doesn't have to be great just yet. I'll give him this year to play better and start to get the pace of play this year, instead of looking like a deer in the headlights his first 5 games. He needs to improve upon his last 6.

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7 minutes ago, ZachEY said:

Lots and lots of words... If Zach Wilson is good, this team will succeed.  If Zach Wilson is not good, this team will not.

Are you suggesting to not bother with building as good a team as possible around your QB?

Because I think everyone knows - we need Wilson to play well and be there guy if we want to win championships

But, IMO, it's not just words - building a team around the QB matters.  The more talent you have the better the team will be.

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27 minutes ago, TheNuuFaaolaExperience said:

I don't grade my contractor on what the house looks like during demolition, and I don't grade him when he puts up the walls and the sheetrock isn't taped or painted. I do grade the previous contractor who tried putting lipstick on a pig. 

JD had a plan and it is working out exactly the way we thought it would. How the hell are you complaining about this?

I assume the contractor you hired for your house has built a nice house before-Joe has not-so far we know joe is good at demo but we dont know he can build you a house you can live in. We know he already bought some of the wrong items in becton and mims so your house right now has no electric or water.

so far Joe is like the failed contractors before him in Mac and Izadick that people swore they had great blue prints to build  a house with a solid foundation but instead their houses crumbled to the ground like one of those buildings built in china where they forget to add concrete.

Parcells built us a great house in after one year and the land he was handed was on a toxic waste landfill-1-15 team

I will sing Joe's praises when the house is built and passes inspection(winning at least 8 games)

 

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2 minutes ago, kmnj said:

I assume the contractor you hired for your house has built a nice house before-Joe has not-so far we know joe is good at demo but we dont know he can build you a house you can live in. We know he already bought some of the wrong items in becton and mims so your house right now has no electric or water.

so far Joe is like the failed contractors before him in Mac and Izadick that people swore they had great blue prints to build  a house with a solid foundation but instead their houses crumbled to the ground like one of those buildings built in china where they forget to add concrete.

Parcells built us a great house in after one year and the land he was handed was on a toxic waste landfill-1-15 team

I will sing Joe's praises when the house is built and passes inspection(winning at least 8 games)

 

What Parcells inherited in building material, was FAR different than what Douglas inherited. Douglas had a demolition job. Parcells had a fixerupper. Not the same thing. 

You must be swell at cocktail parties

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1 minute ago, TheNuuFaaolaExperience said:

He only worked for contractors who won Super Bowls. Raven and Eagle Contractors, so there is always that.

I would rather hire the project foreman than a laborer that has to work for somebody else

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53 minutes ago, kmnj said:

parcells gave reason for hope he had done it before-by the end of his second year his 1-15 team was competing for a championship-Joe has like 6 wins the last two years combined and folks crowing about his plan and the job he has done-he best hope wilson does not bust out like becton or mims

Joe Douglas isn't the HC.  He picked a rookie HC to run the team on the field.  

For 15 minutes under Parcells the Jets had one of the greatest assembled coaching staffs in NFL history.   Joe D is trying to build a team and a coaching staff from the ground up.  I don't think it's remotely comparable.

There isn't a single coach on the current Jets coaching staff who would have a job on that staff.  

This team is rebuilding and counting on a lot of guys both players and coaches becoming really good really fast.  A lot of what Joe D is doing depends on Zach and Saleh.   We just have to be patient.  

To date I'm not overly concerned about what Joe D has done.  He's pretty much followed the playbook that's baked into the NFL cake.  You suck you clean up the cap and you get as much draft capital as possible.  He's done that.   He's adding players without breaking the bank who can start or compete and upgrade positions. 

He's not some super drafter, almost nobody in the NFL is a super drafter.  He's very dependent on being right on the QB and the HC.  He hasn't made a lot of bold moves to risk cap space.  He's made prudent moves based on the current situation.  He's been incredibly unlucky with some of his picks but hopefully that balances out.

I think Zach has tremendous potential.  He was dissapointingly bad last year.  He needs to get a lot better.  Saleh seems like a very nice guy with a lot of confidence.  I'm much more skeptical of his ability to be a great HC.  I'm way less concerned about Douglas.  If he has to replace Saleh it doesn't mean he doesn't know what he's doing.  

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27 minutes ago, kmnj said:

I assume the contractor you hired for your house has built a nice house before-Joe has not-so far we know joe is good at demo but we dont know he can build you a house you can live in. We know he already bought some of the wrong items in becton and mims so your house right now has no electric or water.

so far Joe is like the failed contractors before him in Mac and Izadick that people swore they had great blue prints to build  a house with a solid foundation but instead their houses crumbled to the ground like one of those buildings built in china where they forget to add concrete.

Parcells built us a great house in after one year and the land he was handed was on a toxic waste landfill-1-15 team

I will sing Joe's praises when the house is built and passes inspection(winning at least 8 games)

 

Here is a partial list of players Parcells inherited upon coming board as coach GM of the Jets. And these were just the starters on the '96 team. Not all were great, but many were building blocks.

After, I will allow you to tell me who Douglas inherited. And we can then discuss and compare. Are you brave enough to do that?

Has Douglas been great? No. Has he been middle of the pack? To be determined. Has he rebuilt this team in a methodical manner that is painstaking in time? Yes. But that is what is needed. He does need improvement this year, as he has seemingly pushed some chips in.

But it is a process. And the process has to have an end game. And he is about at that point. 

But to compare this to what Parcells inherited is idiotic.

In no order:

-Adrian Murrell

-Richie Anderson

-Wayne Cherbet

-Keyshawn Johnson

-Jumbo Elliot

-Matt O'Dwyer

-David Williams

-Marvin Washungton

-Hugh Douglas

-Marvin Jones

-Mo Lewis

-Aaron Glenn

-Ray Mickens

Victor Green

 

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44 minutes ago, FidelioJet said:

Are you suggesting to not bother with building as good a team as possible around your QB?

Because I think everyone knows - we need Wilson to play well and be there guy if we want to win championships

But, IMO, it's not just words - building a team around the QB matters.  The more talent you have the better the team will be.

The other thing is if we do *knock on wood* have to boot Zach, we will have the infrastructure to bring someone else in and win games, instead of wandering the desert for another 40 years.

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53 minutes ago, Biggs said:

Joe Douglas isn't the HC.  He picked a rookie HC to run the team on the field.  

For 15 minutes under Parcells the Jets had one of the greatest assembled coaching staffs in NFL history.   Joe D is trying to build a team and a coaching staff from the ground up.  I don't think it's remotely comparable.

There isn't a single coach on the current Jets coaching staff who would have a job on that staff.  

This team is rebuilding and counting on a lot of guys both players and coaches becoming really good really fast.  A lot of what Joe D is doing depends on Zach and Saleh.   We just have to be patient.  

To date I'm not overly concerned about what Joe D has done.  He's pretty much followed the playbook that's baked into the NFL cake.  You suck you clean up the cap and you get as much draft capital as possible.  He's done that.   He's adding players without breaking the bank who can start or compete and upgrade positions. 

He's not some super drafter, almost nobody in the NFL is a super drafter.  He's very dependent on being right on the QB and the HC.  He hasn't made a lot of bold moves to risk cap space.  He's made prudent moves based on the current situation.  He's been incredibly unlucky with some of his picks but hopefully that balances out.

I think Zach has tremendous potential.  He was dissapointingly bad last year.  He needs to get a lot better.  Saleh seems like a very nice guy with a lot of confidence.  I'm much more skeptical of his ability to be a great HC.  I'm way less concerned about Douglas.  If he has to replace Saleh it doesn't mean he doesn't know what he's doing.  

I agree with most of this except I am much higher on Saleh. I think he is going to turn out to be an exceptional coach. There seems to be real teamwork between JD, his staff and the coaches. Also, a good sign. Happy with the work in progress.

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18 hours ago, Zachtomims47 said:

It’s really quite baffling. Would love to know how he whiffed so bad at that draft. 
Feel like he’s got the right philosophy and approach. And 2021 looks a lot better.
Was he not on the same page with the coaches? Just still too new? Or just plain ol bad luck?

Either way, hope this draft is more like last year and that one we can put behind us. 

Well, he certainly did whiff. My best guess is that he went with the existing scouting staff who were also executing Macc’s instructions. Garbage in, garbage out.

But that excuse only works if he has a solid draft this year. Then you can feel a little comfortable.

We’ll see. 

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8 minutes ago, addage said:

Well, he certainly did whiff. My best guess is that he went with the existing scouting staff who were also executing Macc’s instructions. Garbage in, garbage out.

But that excuse only works if he has a solid draft this year. Then you can feel a little comfortable.

We’ll see. 

If he relied on existing scouting for the 2020 draft he is a ******* moron.  By the time the Jets went on the clock for the Becton pick he had been on the job for like 46 weeks.  If he was leaning on that staff and they were following Macc's instruction, he should give back a year's salary.

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2 hours ago, FidelioJet said:

Are you suggesting to not bother with building as good a team as possible around your QB?

Because I think everyone knows - we need Wilson to play well and be there guy if we want to win championships

But, IMO, it's not just words - building a team around the QB matters.  The more talent you have the better the team will be.

100 percent that is something we never did and if Joe had been here he woudl have done that first before drafting a QB I think. But 100% Joe is building a strong team around him as best he can in his position. You have to love it as a jets fan. 

The more talent you have the better the team will be.

such an easy thing to say and understand but the Jets have refused to do or couldnt do ifor so many years.

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2 hours ago, kmnj said:

I assume the contractor you hired for your house has built a nice house before-Joe has not-so far we know joe is good at demo but we dont know he can build you a house you can live in. We know he already bought some of the wrong items in becton and mims so your house right now has no electric or water.

so far Joe is like the failed contractors before him in Mac and Izadick that people swore they had great blue prints to build  a house with a solid foundation but instead their houses crumbled to the ground like one of those buildings built in china where they forget to add concrete.

Parcells built us a great house in after one year and the land he was handed was on a toxic waste landfill-1-15 team

I will sing Joe's praises when the house is built and passes inspection(winning at least 8 games)

 

ok fair enough but Joe comes learned his trade at one of the best house builder teams there has ever been and gone on working his way up through the trade and every reasonable evaluation of his work here as GM seems to confirm he learned his craft very well. I like analogies and understand some will not give him credit or recognize competence or good work till the job is complete, but unlike a house, A NFL team and organization is not evaluated when the job (winning the superbowl) is complete. It is and can be evaluated by a lot of other things that indicate it is run well. Roster construction, CAP, talent level, coaching, structure, ownership, communication etc.

SO if your house all of a sudden got AC or electricity after years of being barren, you would say that is a step in the right direction. I think it is fair to say Joe has put the lights on, has upgraded the kitchen and bathroom. Raised the value lol.

Sorry im getting carried away with this house analogy stuff I just mean you can say Joe is doing good before 8 wins because you can see where we have made progress on the line, WR, structure, coaching etc. Allowing us to even consider winning 8 games. That should be recognized, he should be applauded. Three GMs have tried and all failed to get where Joe is, and he did with a considerably worse team. 

I do think you will see 8 wins this year and will be happy but you dont have to see that before you can say Joe is good.

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2 hours ago, Scott Dierking said:

What Parcells inherited in building material, was FAR different than what Douglas inherited. Douglas had a demolition job. Parcells had a fixerupper. Not the same thing. 

You must be swell at cocktail parties

100 percent, not to take anythign away from Bill Parcells, I think he could have taken what Joe had and done well.... as well.

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20 hours ago, Warfish said:

7-9

2-14

4-13

That is the Joe Douglas Era to-date.

His moves this offseason seem pretty good, and he's a heck of a trader, but ultimately a GM has to build a team that wins.

So far, we're not that.  Hopefully that changes in 2022.

 

Really can't put 2019 on JD - he came in AFTER the draft, so very limited in what he could do.

 

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