Amateur GM/Coaches: JD’s plan to fix run defense?!

[OtherwiseHappyinLife]

I’ll start with stating I’m ‘otherwise happy’ with this free agency period (get it.. hahahaokmovingon).

But I can NOT be the only one who witnessed the run defense last year! Not for fun, we could also throw in the RB screen and TE outlets.  Tough to rush the passer with these glaring holes and it’s been very noticeable to me that we missed out on DT Jones (SF-Denver) after letting Fatukasi go, also didn’t tender Phillips (strong against the run at DE), and have shown very little interest in FA LBs.

Channel JD and Saleh for me.  What is the plan (draft, remaining FA) to significantly improve the situation?

[Larz]

Big man push big man, medium man chase small man

 

 

[Tranquilo]

You just need one fat guy, one opportunity

[KRL]

This draft is extremely deep at DLine, look for DT's like Jordan Davis (Georgia),
Devonte Wyatt (Georgia) or Travis Jones (UCONN) to be drafted in the first 2 rounds
 

[Beerfish]

How to fix the run defense?

Don't split your dlineman 3 yards apart from each other.

Fixed.

[Jets Voice of Reason]

In my eyes the problem with the team defense is a lack of speed and block-shedding from the linebackers and not enough penetration and pressure rate up front. The team philosophy you've heard from the secondary is to keep plays in front of you on the first two downs, limit explosives, and then pass rush on 3rd down and win based off the defensive front. Obviously that didn't happen a lot and everyone remembers all those random 3rd and 20 conversions from opposing team offenses.  

We're not a 2-gap system where you have a NT or run stuffing DT that I see some of you guys mentioning. it's a one gap in either 4-3 under/over, wide 9, or or nickel/dime packages most of the time. The problem is that our front is designed to get pressure with 4 and play with a lead, neither of which we did consistently enough last year. In terms of run defense, interior runs are vulnerable depending on our alignment especially in wide 9, and our linebackers and safeties weren't good enough to compensate for the gaps left behind. It's a known weakness of the alignment and in run situations our linebackers are supposed to crash the gaps and cover for the lineman. It's not hold your ground or read and react. It's penetrate and collapse the pocket (i.e. all gas no brakes).

It's not that a guy like Fatukasi for example stopped being good what he's best at, it's that his skillset wasn't what this defensive front needs, which is penetration. JFM is better as an interior rusher because his athleticism relatively speaking in those respective positions are greater as a DT than edge. He's a competent edge, but better inside.  Lawson was supposed to be the speed rusher, which once he went down we never replaced and he would have made a big difference in the team defense if he played the full season.

Long-story short, another edge, better DTs, and Will and SAM backers help tremendously. Let's say Karlaftis tested out with immense athleticism (he hasn't) but his build and skillset opposite Lawson would mesh well because he's strong and can shed blocks and if he offered consistent penetration as a rusher, it's exactly what the defense would have needed. A guy like Nakobe Dean or Devin Lloyd (I prefer dean slightly, but they're both tailor made for this defense) who play with great instinct and play speed would upgrade the run defense hugely instead of unathletic and plodding Jamien Sherwood who the team likes for some reason. 

Our young corners and revolving players in the secondary were also the problem. This is a communication-based defense in zone coverage and we play more man than some people realize and they made a ton of mistakes, esp. early in the season. That's why getting Reed and especially whitehead, who's a good player against the run should help tremendously.

 

 

 

[Joe Willie White Shoes]

I would not be surprised to see the Jets draft a DT and/or ILB in the first two rounds.

[68JET11]

IMO, and it's only my opinion, but I believe we take EDGE with out first pick, and DT with our #10 now. As of who those players will be, I'm not sure, but if I'm JD I go JJ at 4, and JDavis at 10. Big body to fill up the middle with QW, and then JJ and Lawson on the EDGE. We just picked up another EDGE in FA today, so there is rotation ability with both DE, and DT. With 2nd round I want Harris LB from Bama, and Watson WR from NDS. Then TE in round 3 with more LB's and RB somewhere at the end of the draft. If JD can do that, and picks more good players in the later rounds like last year, then I think we'll finally have the start of something good here.

[Barry McCockinner]

29 minutes ago, Beerfish said:

How to fix the run defense?

Don't split your dlineman 3 yards apart from each other.

Fixed.

No doubt - they splits the d-line was taking left giant gaping natural gaps way more frequently than I ever wanted to see. It made the job super easy for opposing o-linemen. I think that's just how the scheme is designed though, and the run defense responsibility falls more to the LB'ers and S's than normal. I'm surprised we didn't jump on Myles Jack.

Gotta think a LB is coming in the draft or via trade.

[UntouchableCrew]

21 minutes ago, Jets Voice of Reason said:

The problem is that our front is designed to get pressure with 4 and play with a lead, neither of which we did consistently enough last year. In terms of run defense, interior runs are vulnerable depending on our alignment especially in wide 9, and our linebackers and safeties weren't good enough to compensate for the gaps left behind. It's a known weakness of the alignment and in run situations our linebackers are supposed to crash the gaps and cover for the lineman. It's not hold your ground or read and react. It's penetrate and collapse the pocket (i.e. all gas no brakes).

 

This.

Not getting blown out constantly will dramatically help the run defense.

[RichardTodd27]

Jet run defense was really hard to watch last year. Don't remember the last time it was this bad.

I'm hoping Sallah is a good enough defensive mind that he can figure it out.

Very concerning.

[nyjbuddy]

If you believe Connor Hughes, more likely an emphasis on the D-line early in the draft.

 

[FidelioJet]

3 minutes ago, nyjbuddy said:

If you believe Connor Hughes, more likely an emphasis on the D-line early in the draft.

 

JFM will be moved to the inside, immediate upgrade to the DL.  Adding actual pressure from the edge will loosen up the interior OL.  Edge is the key and the IDL will be fine.

[RedBeardedSavage]

Combination of

• Travis Jones top of round 2
• count on progression from Jonathan Marshall
• sign a veteran from the list below, maybe wait for more DT's becoming available later in the offseason

https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/free-agents/defensive-tackle/

Or one Jordan Davis

[Bronx]

15 minutes ago, nyjbuddy said:

If you believe Connor Hughes, more likely an emphasis on the D-line early in the draft.

 

Smokescreen 

[BornJetsFan1983]

2 hours ago, OtherwiseHappyinLife said:

I’ll start with stating I’m ‘otherwise happy’ with this free agency period (get it.. hahahaokmovingon).

But I can NOT be the only one who witnessed the run defense last year! Not for fun, we could also throw in the RB screen and TE outlets.  Tough to rush the passer with these glaring holes and it’s been very noticeable to me that we missed out on DT Jones (SF-Denver) after letting Fatukasi go, also didn’t tender Phillips (strong against the run at DE), and have shown very little interest in FA LBs.

Channel JD and Saleh for me.  What is the plan (draft, remaining FA) to significantly improve the situation?

Well that safety we just got should replace dumb dumb letting those 40 yard run go wiht bad angles. THen joyner back shoudl help alot. THe line was suspect and that ruined the LB play. I dont think you need much help in LB, they should be fine now that we address the line and safety. RUN def will be average or better this year as is, maybe better

[OtherwiseHappyinLife]

1 hour ago, Jets Voice of Reason said:

In my eyes the problem with the team defense is a lack of speed and block-shedding from the linebackers and not enough penetration and pressure rate up front. The team philosophy you've heard from the secondary is to keep plays in front of you on the first two downs, limit explosives, and then pass rush on 3rd down and win based off the defensive front. Obviously that didn't happen a lot and everyone remembers all those random 3rd and 20 conversions from opposing team offenses.  

We're not a 2-gap system where you have a NT or run stuffing DT that I see some of you guys mentioning. it's a one gap in either 4-3 under/over, wide 9, or or nickel/dime packages most of the time. The problem is that our front is designed to get pressure with 4 and play with a lead, neither of which we did consistently enough last year. In terms of run defense, interior runs are vulnerable depending on our alignment especially in wide 9, and our linebackers and safeties weren't good enough to compensate for the gaps left behind. It's a known weakness of the alignment and in run situations our linebackers are supposed to crash the gaps and cover for the lineman. It's not hold your ground or read and react. It's penetrate and collapse the pocket (i.e. all gas no brakes).

It's not that a guy like Fatukasi for example stopped being good what he's best at, it's that his skillset wasn't what this defensive front needs, which is penetration. JFM is better as an interior rusher because his athleticism relatively speaking in those respective positions are greater as a DT than edge. He's a competent edge, but better inside.  Lawson was supposed to be the speed rusher, which once he went down we never replaced and he would have made a big difference in the team defense if he played the full season.

Long-story short, another edge, better DTs, and Will and SAM backers help tremendously. Let's say Karlaftis tested out with immense athleticism (he hasn't) but his build and skillset opposite Lawson would mesh well because he's strong and can shed blocks and if he offered consistent penetration as a rusher, it's exactly what the defense would have needed. A guy like Nakobe Dean or Devin Lloyd (I prefer dean slightly, but they're both tailor made for this defense) who play with great instinct and play speed would upgrade the run defense hugely instead of unathletic and plodding Jamien Sherwood who the team likes for some reason. 

Our young corners and revolving players in the secondary were also the problem. This is a communication-based defense in zone coverage and we play more man than some people realize and they made a ton of mistakes, esp. early in the season. That's why getting Reed and especially whitehead, who's a good player against the run should help tremendously.

 

 

 

Wow, that was an impressive read.  Sounds like you are a former player or coach, is that right?

Take me to the draft, what tackles are you looking at and what round can we find them?

Do we need 1 or 2 new linebackers?

[rangerous]

1 hour ago, Beerfish said:

How to fix the run defense?

Don't split your dlineman 3 yards apart from each other.

Fixed.

and have more than 1-1/2 linebackers.

[Beerfish]

1 hour ago, Barry McCockinner said:

No doubt - they splits the d-line was taking left giant gaping natural gaps way more frequently than I ever wanted to see. It made the job super easy for opposing o-linemen. I think that's just how the scheme is designed though, and the run defense responsibility falls more to the LB'ers and S's than normal. I'm surprised we didn't jump on Myles Jack.

Gotta think a LB is coming in the draft or via trade.

It was actually a two part issue when I was watching teams gash us last year.

First of all was the ungodly wide dline splits.  Teams had to make 1/2 of a block to get through a gaping hole.

On top of that our linebackers were lined up 12 yards back so instead of having a backer ready to step into a hole they were really far back, could not get to the hole and thus ended up one on one vs a back in mostly open field.

It was as if we were in 3rd and 15 defense on every down.  I give lots of grief to our dline and backers from last year but the play calls and schemes sucked a well.

[OtherwiseHappyinLife]

1 hour ago, UntouchableCrew said:

This.

Not getting blown out constantly will dramatically help the run defense.

That might be too simplistic, I don’t remember the run defense being good in any game.  
 

Maybe there’s data to support either end of the argument but I remember being blown off the ball at the beginning, middle and end of games across pretty much all games.

[Jets Voice of Reason]

2 minutes ago, OtherwiseHappyinLife said:

Wow, that was an impressive read.  Sounds like you are a former player or coach, is that right?

Take me to the draft, what tackles are you looking at and what round can we find them?

Do we need 1 or 2 new linebackers?

Thanks, but I'm sure there's a bunch of other guys on the board more knowledgeable than I am. @kdels62 @Chrebetfan80@Paradis @sec101row23 @derp and several others are draft fiends that know their stuff and when they were into talking draft @JiFapono and @maury77 also have great thoughts on prospects. just my opinion on who puts in the time all year round.

That being said, this is a deep d-line class and Perrion Winfrey and Travis Jones had great senior bowls and the tape matches the production for me. So for round 2 I think those are names to keep an eye on because they fit what we're looking for. Jordan Davis is a freak so he might be under consideration at 10, but he's not as classic of a fit I'd say personally. I see a lot of WIlfork in his game and I'd take Wilfork any day of the week if that's his upside. Devontae Wyatt is also another possibility, although I think Winfrey and Jones are slightly better system fits but it's splitting hairs. Wyatt is going to be good I think.

Personally, I think we'd need 2 linebackers, but the team likes Quincy Williams so the answer might just be one. If you think back at the 49er teams and how they draft, they go hard on D-line (solomon thomas, Buckner, Bosa, Kinlaw) with their 1st round picks and I feel like that trend continues under a Saleh regime long-term. In terms of names, beyond what I listed above, there are a lot of dynamic athletic linebackers in the draft. Chad Muma and Christian Harris fit the athletic profile well and are possibilities on day 2.

Leo Chenal killed it at the combine and wasn't on my radar, but he had a very productive final year and is both agile, fast, and explosive. He's 250 lbs, so as crazy as it sounds, he profiles like an edge player even though he played 3-4 ILB in college. He might end up being a Mosley understudy or Will linebacker. But he's heavier than what Saleh seems to like, so I might be wrong there.

[Chrebetfan80]

8 minutes ago, Jets Voice of Reason said:

Thanks, but I'm sure there's a bunch of other guys on the board more knowledgeable than I am. @kdels62 @Chrebetfan80@Paradis @sec101row23 @derp and several others are draft fiends that know their stuff and when they were into talking draft @JiFapono and @maury77 also have great thoughts on prospects. just my opinion on who puts in the time all year round.

That being said, this is a deep d-line class and Perrion Winfrey and Travis Jones had great senior bowls and the tape matches the production for me. So for round 2 I think those are names to keep an eye on because they fit what we're looking for. Jordan Davis is a freak so he might be under consideration at 10, but he's not as classic of a fit I'd say personally. I see a lot of WIlfork in his game and I'd take Wilfork any day of the week if that's his upside. Devontae Wyatt is also another possibility, although I think Winfrey and Jones are slightly better system fits but it's splitting hairs. Wyatt is going to be good I think.

Personally, I think we'd need 2 linebackers, but the team likes Quincy Williams so the answer might just be one. If you think back at the 49er teams and how they draft, they go hard on D-line (solomon thomas, Buckner, Bosa, Kinlaw) with their 1st round picks and I feel like that trend continues under a Saleh regime long-term. In terms of names, beyond what I listed above, there are a lot of dynamic athletic linebackers in the draft. Chad Muma and Christian Harris fit the athletic profile well and are possibilities on day 2.

Leo Chenal killed it at the combine and wasn't on my radar, but he had a very productive final year and is both agile, fast, and explosive. He's 250 lbs, so as crazy as it sounds, he profiles like an edge player even though he played 3-4 ILB in college. He might end up being a Mosley understudy or Will linebacker. But he's heavier than what Saleh seems to like, so I might be wrong there.

Great series of posts. Appreciate the shout out.  I would say youre right on labeling who they would be targeting from names I've heard. 

Winfrey is a big one, they loved him at the senior bowl.  I think he's very realistic at the top of round 2 if he makes it there.  Travis Jones power against the run is really an exciting smaller school prospect, but I'm not totally sure on the fit in this scheme where playing the run on the way to the QB is a priority.  I do believe that they like him though and were very effusive in their praise at the senior bowl.  

In terms of LB I see us adding one for sure, and the name I think they would love to add is Chad Muma (which you mentioned above).  He's starting to get more and more love as we get closer to the draft but he's a really really good player, solid at everything and a great kid.  Lloyd and Dean are the front runners for good reason, and i think they may even be in play with a little bit of a trade down, but overall they really like Quincy, and obviously love Mosely, Anyone they bring in would compete with Quincy or be an eventual replacement for CJ so I'm not really sure if any of those guys fit that mold as it would take a 2nd for Muma and a 1st for the other two. I'm not sure they're ready to make that kind of investment in the LB position quite yet.  a guy like Troy Andersen could be interesting.  Small school kid (montana state) but has the size and speed that they like (9.98 RAS score) and could be a guy you bring in to develop.  

[jeremy2020]

3 hours ago, OtherwiseHappyinLife said:

I’ll start with stating I’m ‘otherwise happy’ with this free agency period (get it.. hahahaokmovingon).

But I can NOT be the only one who witnessed the run defense last year! Not for fun, we could also throw in the RB screen and TE outlets.  Tough to rush the passer with these glaring holes and it’s been very noticeable to me that we missed out on DT Jones (SF-Denver) after letting Fatukasi go, also didn’t tender Phillips (strong against the run at DE), and have shown very little interest in FA LBs.

Channel JD and Saleh for me.  What is the plan (draft, remaining FA) to significantly improve the situation?

You get a lead and then you have penetrating lineman to get after the QB. 

[Sperm Edwards]

2 hours ago, 68JET11 said:

IMO, and it's only my opinion, but I believe we take EDGE with out first pick, and DT with our #10 now. As of who those players will be, I'm not sure, but if I'm JD I go JJ at 4, and JDavis at 10. Big body to fill up the middle with QW, and then JJ and Lawson on the EDGE. We just picked up another EDGE in FA today, so there is rotation ability with both DE, and DT. With 2nd round I want Harris LB from Bama, and Watson WR from NDS. Then TE in round 3 with more LB's and RB somewhere at the end of the draft. If JD can do that, and picks more good players in the later rounds like last year, then I think we'll finally have the start of something good here.

If they don't trade down from either 1st round pick, I don't think it's far-fetched at all, even if it'd get collective groans from a fan base that saw so many DTs drafted in round 1 over a decade-span (5 of them from 2011-2018) while the offense was put on a diet of leftovers. 

They may not be targeting WR even as high as round 2 anyway, despite the additional groans that'd also get, and - in the absence of any trade-downs -  maybe are thinking:

• DE, DT, TE, LB with their top four picks.
• Then target WR, RB, and a developmental/future C after that in rounds 3+4. 

I could see it happening, even if most here would hate it - or that so many would say they'd hate it today, and then after the team does it they'd flip to rationalize why it was actually smart of them to do just that, lol. 

There are still lots of players left in FA, and that could change these possibilities further, of course.

[maury77]

1 hour ago, Jets Voice of Reason said:

Thanks, but I'm sure there's a bunch of other guys on the board more knowledgeable than I am. @kdels62 @Chrebetfan80@Paradis @sec101row23 @derp and several others are draft fiends that know their stuff and when they were into talking draft @JiFapono and @maury77 also have great thoughts on prospects. just my opinion on who puts in the time all year round.

That being said, this is a deep d-line class and Perrion Winfrey and Travis Jones had great senior bowls and the tape matches the production for me. So for round 2 I think those are names to keep an eye on because they fit what we're looking for. Jordan Davis is a freak so he might be under consideration at 10, but he's not as classic of a fit I'd say personally. I see a lot of WIlfork in his game and I'd take Wilfork any day of the week if that's his upside. Devontae Wyatt is also another possibility, although I think Winfrey and Jones are slightly better system fits but it's splitting hairs. Wyatt is going to be good I think.

Personally, I think we'd need 2 linebackers, but the team likes Quincy Williams so the answer might just be one. If you think back at the 49er teams and how they draft, they go hard on D-line (solomon thomas, Buckner, Bosa, Kinlaw) with their 1st round picks and I feel like that trend continues under a Saleh regime long-term. In terms of names, beyond what I listed above, there are a lot of dynamic athletic linebackers in the draft. Chad Muma and Christian Harris fit the athletic profile well and are possibilities on day 2.

Leo Chenal killed it at the combine and wasn't on my radar, but he had a very productive final year and is both agile, fast, and explosive. He's 250 lbs, so as crazy as it sounds, he profiles like an edge player even though he played 3-4 ILB in college. He might end up being a Mosley understudy or Will linebacker. But he's heavier than what Saleh seems to like, so I might be wrong there.

Thanks, I appreciate it. I get tempted to get back into it here and there, but Zach Wilson broke me last year, lol.

[Dwight Englewood]

On 3/17/2022 at 9:19 AM, Beerfish said:

How to fix the run defense?

Don't split your dlineman 3 yards apart from each other.

Fixed.

Saleh is trash

 

i can’t believe we find a head coach who is even worse than the previous 2 

[Dwight Englewood]

On 3/17/2022 at 11:18 AM, OtherwiseHappyinLife said:

That might be too simplistic, I don’t remember the run defense being good in any game.  
 

Maybe there’s data to support either end of the argument but I remember being blown off the ball at the beginning, middle and end of games across pretty much all games.

Rutgers could have put up 30+ on our defense last season.  It was literally the worst Jets defense I have ever seen