Cimini on some draft buzz

[Jet Nut]

14 hours ago, bitonti said:

Jets Fans talk about paying players like Woody's going to send us a refund in the mail 

80 million sounds like alot except for the fact that they were 120 under for 2023

The roster is underfunded every season, this one too 

80 last year and this year are nothing because we're 120 under next year?  And if they want to spend 120 next year?   Regardless its good sense to overpay for a player just for the hell of it.  

Back to the underfunded nonsense, the same whine 

[T0mShane]

2 minutes ago, AFJF said:

Who is doing the watching?  

Pick any safety currently playing in the NFL. Find the best one. Would you trade the fourth overall pick for that guy?

[RedBeardedSavage]

2 hours ago, AFJF said:

I don't think that comparing 4.57 to 4.59 is particularly ridiculous.  To each his own, I suppose.

Hamilton should be valued where Ed Reed was picked in the first round and Ed Reed should've been valued, in his first round, where Hamilton is projected this year.

[AFJF]

4 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

Pick any safety currently playing in the NFL. Find the best one. Would you trade the fourth overall pick for that guy?

Hell no, but Hamilton can still be elite.

Now do I take him at 10?  Lean toward no but can live with a yes.

[AFJF]

1 minute ago, RedBeardedSavage said:

Hamilton should be valued where Ed Reed was picked in the first round and Ed Reed should've been valued, in his first round, where Hamilton is projected this year.

If Hamilton is even 80% of what Reed was, it increases his value in today's pass happy NFL.

[Scoop24]

15 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

This isn’t the most recent one

his take didn't change in the dj reed episode.. KT or OL...  even Says he finds it very hard to see Saleh passing on KT at 4.

28:32 mark

[Jet Nut]

11 hours ago, 92ShaunEllis92 said:

He was an athletic specimen gym rat who was a tweener DE/OLB (for the 2008 Jets’ 3-4 Defense purposes) who only became a 1st rounder (when most speculated 2nd round) AFTER his INSANE combine results. 

Kind of making it up now.  

He was always a first rounder, top of the first who we took because quite literally there was no one for us to take when we missed out on one of the Longs or Ryan

[RedBeardedSavage]

13 minutes ago, AFJF said:

If Hamilton is even 80% of what Reed was, it increases his value in today's pass happy NFL.

I don't know what 80% of a HOF'er is, a sometime pro bowler?

Besides, there are other HOF'er who don't even have 80% of Reed's turnovers.

The point is, Ed Reed is singular. Until such a player pulls down 17 INT's over his final two seasons in college, 4 of which returned for touchdowns, we should let the Reed talk rest.

Hamilton is just a really good safety, a Jesse Bates type? Maybe a bit better, if quantifiably slower (4.5 flat for Bates).

Do you want Jesse Bates @ 10 overall?

[Jet Nut]

3 hours ago, Larz said:

Fwiw the average blink of an eye is .1 seconds 

thr difference between 4..4 speed  and 4.5 is literally a blink of an eye

.02 lol

Not quite

The blink of an eye is 400 millisecond's which equal 0.4 seconds 

 

[AFJF]

19 minutes ago, RedBeardedSavage said:

I don't know what 80% of a HOF'er is, a sometime pro bowler?

Besides, there are other HOF'er who don't even have 80% of Reed's turnovers.

The point is, Ed Reed is singular. Until such a player pulls down 17 INT's over his final two seasons in college, 4 of which returned for touchdowns, we should let the Reed talk rest.

Hamilton is just a really good safety, a Jesse Bates type? Maybe a bit better, if quantifiably slower (4.5 flat for Bates).

Do you want Jesse Bates @ 10 overall?

But you suggesting he's Jesse Bates doesn't make him Jesse Bates.

Reed isn't just a HoF.  He's arguably top 2 or 3 of all time.  A player anywhere close to what Reed is enters the HoF discussion as their ceiling.

[T0mShane]

28 minutes ago, Scoop24 said:

his take didn't change in the dj reed episode.. KT or OL...  even Says he finds it very hard to see Saleh passing on KT at 4.

28:32 mark

The 32:30 mark of this episode. Says he’d put money on pass rusher at 4, receiver at 10. Says that he’s heard the Jets aren’t afraid of Thibodeaux’s issues

[RedBeardedSavage]

8 minutes ago, AFJF said:

But you suggesting he's Jesse Bates doesn't make him Jesse Bates.

Reed isn't just a HoF.  He's arguably top 2 or 3 of all time.  A player anywhere close to what Reed is enters the HoF discussion as their ceiling.

Kyle Hamilton played 31 collegiate games in an era with more passing, as you stated earlier.

Hamilton had 8 interceptions in 31 games.

Ed Reed had 17 interceptions over his final 22 collegiate games in era with less passing.

I think the only thing similar here is 40 time. The "80% of 'x' player" is vague way to appear quantifiable without having to be specific.

If we're going to be specific, let's look at career college interceptions. Hamilton is now less than 40% of Reed was. 

[derp]

17 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

The 32:30 mark of this episode. Says he’d put money on pass rusher at 4, receiver at 10. Says that he’s heard the Jets aren’t afraid of Thibodeaux’s issues

I’ve repeatedly said I don’t think the Jets are taking Thibodeaux but there’s absolutely a path of things we have no access to - Oregon coaches have good things to say about him and he says all the right things in interviews, which would be acknowledging his goals but saying he’s aware he’s got to have a huge career to achieve what he wants off the field, plus maybe something about how he could’ve shut down after he got hurt but didn’t - and then Jets say **** it we like the guy and he’s talented and genuine enough.

[Scoop24]

26 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

The 32:30 mark of this episode. Says he’d put money on pass rusher at 4, receiver at 10. Says that he’s heard the Jets aren’t afraid of Thibodeaux’s issues

he stated this in a few episodes saying the issues are overblown. also Saleh is on record saying he is about getting his guys paid. so why would KT branding interest bother him .

[T0mShane]

34 minutes ago, derp said:

I’ve repeatedly said I don’t think the Jets are taking Thibodeaux but there’s absolutely a path of things we have no access to - Oregon coaches have good things to say about him and he says all the right things in interviews, which would be acknowledging his goals but saying he’s aware he’s got to have a huge career to achieve what he wants off the field, plus maybe something about how he could’ve shut down after he got hurt but didn’t - and then Jets say **** it we like the guy and he’s talented and genuine enough.

 

32 minutes ago, Scoop24 said:

he stated this in a few episodes saying the issues are overblown. also Saleh is on record saying he is about getting his guys paid. so why would KT branding interest bother him .

On the other hand, it’s in the Jets’ best interest to pretend they’re interested in every guy projected in the top ten, for fear that another team gets content to sit back and wait for whoever to fall. Maybe? I just think they can’t risk going all-in on a guy like Thibodeaux—who’s worried about his brand—especially if the team isn’t going to win right away. Not sure he’s what you’d call a foxhole guy.

[AFJF]

53 minutes ago, RedBeardedSavage said:

Kyle Hamilton played 31 collegiate games in an era with more passing, as you stated earlier.

Hamilton had 8 interceptions in 31 games.

Ed Reed had 17 interceptions over his final 22 collegiate games in era with less passing.

I think the only thing similar here is 40 time. The "80% of 'x' player" is vague way to appear quantifiable without having to be specific.

If we're going to be specific, let's look at career college interceptions. Hamilton is now less than 40% of Reed was. 

How many sacks did Micah Parsons have in his final collegiate season?

[AFJF]

51 minutes ago, Scoop24 said:

he stated this in a few episodes saying the issues are overblown. also Saleh is on record saying he is about getting his guys paid. so why would KT branding interest bother him .

This GM just inherited Jamal Adams, a guy who cares only about himself and we saw how well that act went over with Douglas.

[Scoop24]

10 minutes ago, AFJF said:

This GM just inherited Jamal Adams, a guy who cares only about himself and we saw how well that act went over with Douglas.

positional value and Jamals impatience played a bigger role in Jamal not being here more than his Brand.. 

Revis was Brand guy you think he couldn't play for JD? being a brand guy doesn't mean you don't love the game at all.

 

Willie Mcginest is this kids mentor he is absolutely gonna know the business side . just like Sean Gilbert did for Revis.. 

[derp]

27 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

 

On the other hand, it’s in the Jets’ best interest to pretend they’re interested in every guy projected in the top ten, for fear that another team gets content to sit back and wait for whoever to fall. Maybe? I just think they can’t risk going all-in on a guy like Thibodeaux—who’s worried about his brand—especially if the team isn’t going to win right away. Not sure he’s what you’d call a foxhole guy.

Yeah, I definitely don’t think it’s a lock, and it’s very possible that Hughes is pushing bad info now (in exchange for good FA info and/or good info later?).

I have a hard time seeing Thibodeaux sneaking through the Saleh “difference between guys who love ball and like what ball brings them” but it’s something I may take too literally and I also think there’s more nuance to Thibodeaux as a person than meets the eye or than we get from draft media.

Definitely still lean no but think it’s only fair to acknowledge it’s potentially not as cut and dry as us buffoons bloviating on the Internet make it out to be.

[AFJF]

6 minutes ago, Scoop24 said:

positional value and Jamals impatience played a bigger role in Jamal not being here more than his Brand.. 

Revis was Brand guy you think he couldn't play for JD? being a brand guy doesn't mean you don't love the game at all.

 

Willie Mcginest is this kids mentor he is absolutely gonna know the business side . just like Sean Gilbert did for Revis.. 

Jamal was impatient because he was all about his brand and had to be the highest paid safety or he was going to sh*t on the team publicly.  This is the concern with any player who spends more time talking about his brand than about football which is what some are saying KT did at the combine.

And it's not about the branding, to me.  It's about not being smart enough to realize you're supposed to at least pretend to like football when you're being interviewed about football by people who are going to pay you to play football.

And I'm not even saying not to draft the guy.  I think he's a steal at 4, but I also understand those worried about his ego being a bit much just like Jamal's was.

[RedBeardedSavage]

9 minutes ago, AFJF said:

How many sacks did Micah Parsons have in his final collegiate season?

I'm guessing not nearly as many as he had as a rookie?

I'd also add the goal posts are now being moved... 

Seems to me that when I bring up athletic testing, you will bring up Ed Reed as a comp, but if I bring up collegiate production, you will bring up Micah Parsons as a comp.

But doesn't that get us to the obvious?

Kyle Hamilton has neither the freakish athleticism of Parsons nor the freakish instincts/production of Ed Reed.  

[AFJF]

16 minutes ago, RedBeardedSavage said:

I'm guessing not nearly as many as he had as a rookie?

I'd also add the goal posts are now being moved... 

Seems to me that when I bring up athletic testing, you will bring up Ed Reed as a comp, but if I bring up collegiate production, you will bring up Micah Parsons as a comp.

But doesn't that get us to the obvious?

Kyle Hamilton has neither the freakish athleticism of Parsons nor the freakish instincts/production of Ed Reed.  

It was said that a safety can't be elite based on a 4.59 40.  I asked if Ed Reed would have been a worse player if his 40 was 0.02 seconds slower.

You then changed the topic from speed to college stats, so I showed that lack of college production does not mean lack of pro production.

[RedBeardedSavage]

24 minutes ago, AFJF said:

It was said that a safety can't be elite based on a 4.59 40.  I asked if Ed Reed would have been a worse player if his 40 was 0.02 seconds slower.

You then changed the topic from speed to college stats, so I showed that lack of college production does not mean lack of pro production.

You've certainly answered each question with an example.

But that leaves us in the awkward position of having to diminish both elite production/ballhawking skills and elite athleticism?

Why would we want a safety who has neither in the top 10? 

The continued talk of him being top 5 or even top 10 selection, I think is a lagging effect of people slow to change their minds after new information became available - i.e. his athletic testing. 

[AFJF]

8 minutes ago, RedBeardedSavage said:

You've certainly answered each question with an example.

But that leaves us in the awkward position of having to diminish both elite production/ballhawking skills and elite athleticism?

Why would we want a safety who has neither in the top 10? 

The continued talk of him being top 5 or even top 10 selection, I think is a lagging effect of people slow to change their minds after new information became available - i.e. his athletic testing. 

There's more to athleticism than a 40 time.  As we've seen, sub par 40 times don't stop a safety from playing at a high level.   His vert and broad were very good and he showed on film that he can cover a ton of ground in the defensive backfield.

I don't want him at four but could live with him at 10.

For me, It's:

4: Sauce

10: JJ, Travon Walker or trade down

If they go Sauce/Hamilton, it'll go a long way in turning around the worst defense in franchise history.

[Guilhermezmc]

10 hours ago, genot said:

Not at #6. Yea I would draft him. He's a very good player. Walker at 275lbs is much more explosive than Williams. Walker could bust. So could Hutch. ??????? I think Walker, based on a bunch of things, has more of a chance to elite, than all of the other edge rushers. Except perhaps, Hutch.

And thats how you end up with the dion jordans vernon gholstons of the world

[Adoni Beast]

There's a lot happening in this thread...but let's get the spoiler alert out of the way.

Hamilton is not going to be anywhere near the player Ed Reed was. Okay? Okay...

[OilfieldJet]

22 hours ago, Stark said:

not meaning it that way... I just keep seeing people on this board post stuff like "well still no WR in FA we better take G Wilson at 4 so we don't miss out" . 

my post is mostly for those posters and the notion that G Wilson or any WR is worth 10 let alone 4.... you want to tell me JD takes London/Burks/Wislon at 10 I mean I guess I could somewhat get around that but no way at 4.

I still think that JD has 4 guys he'd take at 4. Hutch, KT, Ekwonu, Sauce. and I don't think there is a scenario where he considers a WR at 4 not this WR class

 

Huh, it’s the position where we have the greatest need. The only one not addressed in FA (yes we resigned BB). Maybe he passes, but it’s reasonable that he goes WR in R1.

[genot]

1 hour ago, Guilhermezmc said:

And thats how you end up with the dion jordans vernon gholstons of the world

Dion Jordan was a toothpic. Plus he played for Oregon, not Georgia. Gholston was a bust because he didn't like to play. I think he said once, it was his father's dream to play football. Every player has a chance to bust. I tell you what. If we want Walker, we might have to trade up to get him.

[Stark]

29 minutes ago, OilfieldJet said:

Huh, it’s the position where we have the greatest need. The only one not addressed in FA (yes we resigned BB). Maybe he passes, but it’s reasonable that he goes WR in R1.

yes we need a WR. no WR in this class has a skill set, size, or special ability that makes them worth the 4th pick IMO. you can argue 10th pick WR, which is probably more likely. but the G Wilson has to be taken at 4 because JD didn't sign "X" WR at the start of FA has gotten out of control.

 

Still have weeks before draft and potential for JD to trade for a WR before/during the draft. 

handful of WR's in this draft are G Wilson - like. 

[SomebodytoAnybody47]

10 hours ago, AFJF said:

Hell no, but Hamilton can still be elite.

Now do I take him at 10?  Lean toward no but can live with a yes.

Lol you say "hell no" to the best in the NFL right now, but would still consider a rookie Safety at 10???? Doesn't add up. 

 

[92ShaunEllis92]

Not worth the #4 overall, IMO, but as many of you stated: “what do I know” and I sound like I’m on lithium, lol ?

 

Who is Travon Walker's NFL player comparison?

James Morgan

Philip G. Pavely-USA TODAY Sports

Georgia Bulldogs standout defensive end Travon Walker is ranked as one of the top pass rushers in the 2022 NFL draft. Walker has impressive speed and strength.

He has positioned himself to be one of the top defensive ends drafted thanks to his incredible 2021 season. In fact, highly respected NFL draft analyst Daniel Jeremiah projected Walker as a top-five selection.

Walker has freaky athleticism, but he also displayed an extremely high motor in the national championship game. He chased down an Alabama wide receiver to save a potential touchdown:

Walker had another memorable play in the College Football Playoff against Michigan. Walker is a reason Michigan looked so physically overmatched against Georgia.

Walker has the potential to dominate on both passing and rushing downs in the NFL. His athleticism is elite, and he has good bend around the edge.

Who is Travon Walker’s NFL player comparison?

Walker has been compared to Pittsburgh Steelers defensive lineman Chris Wormley. Wormley recorded 7 sacks in 2021 and is a key piece on Pittsburgh’s defense. He benefits from all of the attention TJ Watt receives, but he produced at a high level.

Wormley was a third-round pick in 2017 coming out of Michigan.

Mark J. Rebilas-USA TODAY Sports

NFL.com’s Lance Zierlein described Travon Walker’s strengths and weaknesses ahead of the 2022 NFL draft:

Walker is a big, rugged run-stopper with the playing style and body type to play 3-4 end. He consistently outreaches blockers and takes control at the point of attack, and sets firm edges despite playing with limited knee-bend. He plays with violent hands, sluggish feet and all-day aggressiveness. He has quick-shed ability to make plays near his gaps but lacks lateral quickness to play with desired range. He won’t be considered a skilled or threatening rusher from any alignment but can plow his way forward to find occasional success. He’s effective against the run but is likely to be a one-way player who comes off the field on passing downs.

 

 

 

 

 

[Guilhermezmc]

2 hours ago, genot said:

Dion Jordan was a toothpic. Plus he played for Oregon, not Georgia. Gholston was a bust because he didn't like to play. I think he said once, it was his father's dream to play football. Every player has a chance to bust. I tell you what. If we want Walker, we might have to trade up to get him.

Trade up? Did you watch any of his games? Jesus christ

[Scoop24]

7 minutes ago, Guilhermezmc said:

Trade up? Did you watch any of his games? Jesus christ

 

Guy played on elite dline with all kinds 1st rd prospects and had 9 1/2 sacks in 3 years. A big whopping 6 this year in 13 games on line where Jordan davis ,Wyatt , Carter command  double teams and the most attention ..

[Guilhermezmc]

9 minutes ago, Scoop24 said:

 

Guy played on elite dline with all kinds 1st rd prospects and had 9 1/2 sacks in 3 years. A big whopping 6 this year in 13 games on line where Jordan davis ,Wyatt , Carter command  double teams and the most attention ..

Its ugly he doesn't have a clue on what he's doing when rushing the passer. I wouldn't touch him until the 3rd round, the only thing he has going for him is his RAS and the big media riding his dick for reasons that are hard to understand. 

[genot]

1 hour ago, Guilhermezmc said:

Trade up? Did you watch any of his games? Jesus christ

Lol. Dude. He will be the 2nd defensive lineman drafted. Why's that. If we draft him, or the Giants draft him. You don't think they watched the tape