Cimini on some draft buzz

[Gastineau Lives]

There's no way we don't go receiver in the first two picks. That would be playing with fire. Our third and fourth receivers are Braxton Berrios and Denzel Mims. Elijah Moore was injured twice. Corey Davis and his hamstring missed 7 games (more? Less?)

He should have addressed it this week. He didn't. No way do you pass on receiver and wait until the the second or third round. It's bad enough for Zach's development to have a rookie thrust into that spot, but to roll the dice is silly.

[TuscanyTile2]

2 minutes ago, Lith said:

Prepare to be disappointed.  I expect that both 4 & 10 will be defense.  35 & 38 will be offense.  I would probaby go edge at 4 ad WR at 10, but I am not expecting that is what JD will do.  Offense will be addressed day 2.

I think we're trading down.  But if we stay where we are then I also think we're going defense at 4 and 10.  

[Guilhermezmc]

Such a Jets thing draft another safety top 5 and a pass rusher who can't rush the passer

[Matt39]

3 minutes ago, Lith said:

Prepare to be disappointed.  I expect that both 4 & 10 will be defense.  35 & 38 will be offense.  I would probaby go edge at 4 ad WR at 10, but I am not expecting that is what JD will do.  Offense will be addressed day 2.

The annual everyone forgets how bad the Jets offense was by the time the draft rolls around and we talk ourselves into DT’s and DB’s

[Jets723]

5 minutes ago, DetroitRed said:

They need to take 2 WRs this draft.  I would not be scared to take them both in the first 3 rounds

They don’t NEED to take  two WR in this draft.  They will draft one but not two within the first 3 rounds 

[TuscanyTile2]

1 minute ago, Matt39 said:

The annual everyone forgets how bad the Jets offense was by the time the draft rolls around and we talk ourselves into DT’s and DB’s

It's not like it's our decision to make anyway.  But also, part of the equation is where the value in the draft is.  From what I'm reading, it sounds like this is not a particularly strong class.  

[Jets723]

4 minutes ago, Matt39 said:

The annual everyone forgets how bad the Jets offense was by the time the draft rolls around and we talk ourselves into DT’s and DB’s

Oh come on.  Their top 6 picks in the last two drafts have been offense 

[Matt39]

Kayvon Thibodeaux, Oregon (6-4, 254): Three-year starter with 19 sacks and 35 ½ tackles for loss. “He’s Jadeveon Clowney,” one scout said, “One or two plays a game you say, ‘Oh, my gosh.’ Then he doesn’t put everything else together. He even moves a little like Clowney. Everybody made Clowney out to be this rare athlete but he’s really just a stiff. This guy looks that way to me as well. He’ll kill some bad tight ends and tackles, but overall he isn’t a nifty, explosive athlete. Not much body control. Very, very inconsistent with his effort and production. Doesn’t have a great feel for the game. Hutchinson was a much, much better college player and will be a much, much better pro player.” At the combine, he referred to himself as “like Jadeveon 2.0.” Ran 4.58 and led on the bench press with 27 reps (he and George Karlaftis were the two of the top seven edge rushers that benched). “He reminded me of Myles Garrett,” a second scout said. “He has an explosive takeoff. He’s always been a star.” Arms were 33 1/8. “Thibodeaux’s overrated,” a third scout said. “I was real disappointed in the film. He’s a good athlete, really fast, got great edge speed. He can dip, bend the corner. He’s not violent. He’s not a power rusher. The mental to me is questionable. There’s a lot of upside but there’s also a lot of bust potential. I wouldn’t bet on the guy.” Compared by a fourth scout to Arden Key. “He scares the f--- out of me,” he said. “All he cares about, it’s about branding or marketing, not playing the game of football. He’s not my cup of tea. Wait and see.”

[WestCoastMole]

15 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

If it’s true that Saleh is blaming the failures of his trash defense on not having a good free safety (lol), and considering Douglas wanted to give Marcus Williams $15+ mil per, Hamilton will probably be the pick at 4. No way they’re drafting Thibodeaux. Not a weak-fish Saleh lapdog-type, and they can just say that Carl Lawson is coming back. 

You can make the one that got away any size you want. The fact is the safety the Jets actually signed last week is Jordan Whitehead. The two safeties that will be starting Week 1 are Ashtyn Davis and Jordan Whitehead.

The Jets are far more likely to pick Ekwonu over Hamilton.

[ScarletKnight89]

If they draft Hamilton he better be a superstar. 

[SomebodytoAnybody47]

Draft a safety in the second if you want. 4 or 10 is just stupid. 

[BettyBoop]

17 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

So if they pick a player you don't want you are convinced he was a product of the media who are pulling a stunt and the Jets are being duped into picking him.  Pretty much every evaluator has him in their top 5 but for some reason its total BS?  JD and his staff will fall back on this media stunt.  

LOL

 

POST OF THE YEAR!  THANK YOU!

[RedBeardedSavage]

44 minutes ago, Asymmetrical said:

I will expire if they pick a safety at 4. KT terrifies me and I'd take him over Hamilton without blinking.

This exactly. And I love Hamilton. Despite his 40, which admittedly was disappointing, I think for sure he'll be a good pro.

But safety just doesn't matter and I'd rather roll the dice on KT... and I really don't want KT. 

Vontae Mack, I mean, Jermaine Johnson II no matter what!

[slats]

1 minute ago, ScarletKnight89 said:

If they draft Hamilton he better be a superstar. 

This is the problem with taking a low value position like safety that high. You’re basically betting on him to be in the GOAT conversation at the position. Take a WR or Edge there, and your fan base is happy with 1000 yards or 8-10 sacks. The likely scenario is Hamilton being a good to really good safety who just never lives up to the hype. 

[T0mShane]

5 minutes ago, WestCoastMole said:

You can make the one that got away any size you want. The fact is the safety the Jets actually signed last week is Jordan Whitehead. The two safeties that will be starting Week 1 are Ashtyn Davis and Jordan Whitehead.

The Jets are far more likely to pick Ekwonu over Hamilton.

If Douglas drafts an OT and a WR in the first this year, does anyone stop to say “Hey, didn’t we just spend two high picks on those exact positions two years ago? What happened to those guys?”

[FTL Jet Fan]

33 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

If it’s true that Saleh is blaming the failures of his trash defense on not having a good free safety (lol), and considering Douglas wanted to give Marcus Williams $15+ mil per, Hamilton will probably be the pick at 4. No way they’re drafting Thibodeaux. Not a weak-fish Saleh lapdog-type, and they can just say that Carl Lawson is coming back. 

What I think of when I see some of your posts, JN’s very own

[FTL Jet Fan]

37 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

 

 

 

[ScarletKnight89]

2 minutes ago, slats said:

This is the problem with taking a low value position like safety that high. You’re basically betting on him to be in the GOAT conversation at the position. Take a WR or Edge there, and your fan base is happy with 1000 yards or 8-10 sacks. The likely scenario is Hamilton being a good to really good safety who just never lives up to the hype. 

I agree 100%. I can't see joe Douglas taking a safety at 4, but I do see a lot of mock drafts projecting him to the Jets.

[slimjasi]

Cimini hasn’t had a clue what the jets are up to for a long time 

(certainly not since Douglas got hired)

 

he’s guessing 

[Beerfish]

I'll trust Douglas on whether to pick Thibs at 4 or not, there are a few other edge, dine he could go to there if we wanted.

Kyle Hamlton will be a dreadful pick, certainly at 4.

The player aside the game has changed from the days of the rare Ed Reed gambling all the time and making big plays.  These days safeties have to be disciplined and the FS has to often play conservative.  The positional value is still low and if you want to free up your 'play making FS' you are the doing the same thing as compromising for your SS ala Adams.

Now the player himself.  After watching a few of his highlights I felt he was gliding over to make plays.  Good instincts but did not look sudden fast.  A good number of his plays were looping passes, which you are not getting in the NFL that often.  He backed this up by running a stunning slow 4.6 at the combine.

[STLuLu]

17 minutes ago, Matt39 said:

The annual everyone forgets how bad the Jets offense was by the time the draft rolls around and we talk ourselves into DT’s and DB’s

You forgot how it took Mike LeFlore til almost the end of the season to learn how to call plays. So it took a while for the offense to finally look competent. You also forgot how terrible the defense became towards the end of the season. The fact that they just got worse and worse each week should motivate you to want the Jets to go defense early in the draft.

[JoeFan]

10 minutes ago, Matt39 said:

Kayvon Thibodeaux, Oregon (6-4, 254): Three-year starter with 19 sacks and 35 ½ tackles for loss. “He’s Jadeveon Clowney,” one scout said, “One or two plays a game you say, ‘Oh, my gosh.’ Then he doesn’t put everything else together. He even moves a little like Clowney. Everybody made Clowney out to be this rare athlete but he’s really just a stiff. This guy looks that way to me as well. He’ll kill some bad tight ends and tackles, but overall he isn’t a nifty, explosive athlete. Not much body control. Very, very inconsistent with his effort and production. Doesn’t have a great feel for the game. Hutchinson was a much, much better college player and will be a much, much better pro player.” At the combine, he referred to himself as “like Jadeveon 2.0.” Ran 4.58 and led on the bench press with 27 reps (he and George Karlaftis were the two of the top seven edge rushers that benched). “He reminded me of Myles Garrett,” a second scout said. “He has an explosive takeoff. He’s always been a star.” Arms were 33 1/8. “Thibodeaux’s overrated,” a third scout said. “I was real disappointed in the film. He’s a good athlete, really fast, got great edge speed. He can dip, bend the corner. He’s not violent. He’s not a power rusher. The mental to me is questionable. There’s a lot of upside but there’s also a lot of bust potential. I wouldn’t bet on the guy.” Compared by a fourth scout to Arden Key. “He scares the f--- out of me,” he said. “All he cares about, it’s about branding or marketing, not playing the game of football. He’s not my cup of tea. Wait and see.”

Can you tell us who wrote this and where you read this?  Thanks.  Seems like good analysis.

[UnknownJetFan]

1 hour ago, Jets723 said:

The only two things I’m pretty positive are that we will draft a WR and safety within our first four picks.  I still feel we get an edge at 4 but who knows 

We should just go most BAP since that can be covered for our needs. As you said we need S, WR, Edge, DT, so if S Hamilton is there at 4 you should take him over Thib. At 10 take the BAP at Edge or WR, and then the reverse with the next pick at the top of round 2. Don’t think you could go wrong with that approach since we have needs in those areas and the picks would then be the highest for each when we pick assuming no trades.

[Augustiniak]

If the jets don’t love the pass rushers at 4 they will go OL and then take a different edge at 10.

[hawk]

I full anticipate the pick to be Hamilton at 4, and it is a very important position for the scheme we run defensively.  We were in the running for Marcus Williams and were willing to pay significant money for him.

Ultimately, I hope year in and year out that we trade back and pick up additional picks, and this year more so due to a weak top of the draft (overall concensus).

My way of looking at it is that we have two bonus picks.  One in the top 10 and another second rounder.  If we didn't have the bonus picks everyone would be happy if we took a WR at 10 and an Edge with our second, or vice versa.  

If we draft Hamilton, which is almost a certainty, he would still just be a bonus.

That said, the primary objective in my opinion, trade back even at a perceived loss and gain more capital.

[Matt39]

9 minutes ago, JoeFan said:

Can you tell us who wrote this and where you read this?  Thanks.  Seems like good analysis.

From Bob Mcginn's annual draft guide. There's always good stuff in there. 

[ncjetman]

If it’s true that Saleh is blaming the failures of his trash defense on not having a good free safety (lol), and considering Douglas wanted to give Marcus Williams $15+ mil per, Hamilton will probably be the pick at 4. No way they’re drafting Thibodeaux. Not a weak-fish Saleh lapdog-type, and they can just say that Carl Lawson is coming back. 

interesting perspective


Sent from my iPad using JetNation.com mobile app

[Matt39]

Kyle Hamilton, Notre Dame (6-4, 220): Jumbo-sized safety with eight career interceptions. “He’s head and shoulders above the rest,” said one scout. “He’s a unicorn. Can play any kind of coverage. He’s not as good as Sean Taylor but he’s probably just a click down in the same hotel chain. You kind of wondered if he’s gritty and grimy enough because he’s a prep school kid from Atlanta. But he showed this year that he can be. I don’t know that he necessarily plays to his size if you want to knock him. He’s a good tackler and a tight-end eraser. I’d be shocked if he makes it out of the top five.” Ran a disappointing 40 (4.59) but had the second best broad jump (10-11) at the position. “He’s Isaiah Simmons, like a reincarnation,” another scout said. “They keep trying to find places for Simmons to play but he doesn’t have a position. I just don’t know where you play (Hamilton). You might try him as a linebacker but he just doesn’t have that temperament or the physicality. Cornerback? Absolutely not. They tried to use him there but Cincinnati figured it out quick and threw at him until they stopped doing it. You’d have to do that (box safety) but he’s not a tough guy in the run game. They play him deep sometimes but he just can’t get off the hash. He can’t flip his hips, move his feet. If he’s up and running, OK. They play him as if they think this guy is like a brilliant athlete. He’s just not a difference-maker.” Simmons, the No. 8 pick in 2020, was 6-3 ½, 233 and ran 4.38. “Simmons was a better all-around football player,” said a third scout. “He was one of the top athletes of all time. Hamilton has two things going for him: he’s tall, and he can cover. I thought he played much better in 2020 than this year even before he got hurt (knee on Oct. 23). He tackles people but he doesn’t hit people. He’s more of a side tackler. He’ll wrap them up but he doesn’t take them on.” Arms were 33.

[FidelioJet]

We need to see FA play out still.

I think there's a big splash left in JD's plan.  

 

[STLuLu]

4 minutes ago, Beerfish said:

I'll trust Douglas on whether to pick Thibs at 4 or not, there are a few other edge, dine he could go to there if we wanted.

Kyle Hamlton will be a dreadful pick, certainly at 4.

The player aside the game has changed from the days of the rare Ed Reed gambling all the time and making big plays.  These days safeties have to be disciplined and the FS has to often play conservative.  The positional value is still low and if you want to free up your 'play making FA' you are the doing the same thing as compromising for your SS ala Adams.

Now the player himself.  After watching a few of his highlights I felt he was gliding over to make plays.  Good instincts but did not look sudden fast.  A good number of his plays were looping passes, which you are not getting in the NFL that often.  He backed this up by running a stunning slow 4.6 at the combine.

You lost me at "trust Douglas". The fact that you called Ed Reed a gambler just confirms how low your football IQ is. No player makes it into the Hall of Fame by gambling. In case you didn't realize it, "gambling all the time and making big plays" is an oxymoron. He made big plays because his instinct was point on, and also because he played in a scheme that allowed his style of play to flourish. Also, you're not compromising for Adams if he's in the right scheme, ala Troy Polamalu.

[derp]

If Cimini’s goal is to drive clicks, which I’m sure it is, it’d almost be irresponsible not to write about there being a chance the Jets take Hamilton.

[Beerfish]

7 minutes ago, STLuLu said:

You lost me at "trust Douglas". The fact that you called Ed Reed a gambler just confirms how low your football IQ is. No player makes it into the Hall of Fame by gambling. In case you didn't realize it, "gambling all the time and making big plays" is an oxymoron. He made big plays because his instinct was point on, and also because he played in a scheme that allowed his style of play to flourish. Also, you're not compromising for Adams if he's in the right scheme, ala Troy Polamalu.

Sheer and utter tripe Ed Reed was the definition of a gambler anyone who actually watched him play would see that.   You seem to confuse the term gambler for failed gambler.  Reed was constantly leaving his areas of responsibility to go and make huge plays.  He gambled more than any secondary player I can remember but he was elite at his play diagnosis and his gambles paid off.  You do not get 64 career ints and lead the league 3 times by not being a gambler.

Also we have no choice but to trust Douglas regarding thibs.

[Dunnie]

Two other fun tidbits in this article:
1. When Revis got drafted, he was home with his family in Aliquippa, PA. Who was in that room? A ten year old Jordan Whitehead.
2. Douglas, for the second year in a row, has handed out at least $80 mil guaranteed to free agents. Yikes.
https://www.espn.com/blog/new-york-jets/post/_/id/89073/for-zach-wilsons-sake-new-york-jets-may-end-this-wide-receiver-drought

Hell of a lot better than handing out 240million to one serial sexual predator

[Gangrene]

After the first week of free agency affecting the draft plans of NFL teams,  Bucky Brooks and Daniel Jeremiah talk on the more likely top 10 picks in the draft...

https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/793-breaking-down-top-10-of-the-draft-potential/id915544088?i=1000554510217

No surprises here, names talked about as good fits at 4 ... Ickey Ekwonu, Sauce Gardner. 

At 10, DJ talks about a trade down from 10 or go for Kyle Hamilton. Bucky is excited at what Hamilton could add to the Jets free agent pick-ups to transform Saleh's defense into an A level secondary.

Jordan Davis is the alternative idea from DJ at pick 10. Davis playing alongside Quinnen Williams also gets them excited.

Pick 34 or 38,  the Penn State pass rusher Arnold Ebiketie is briefly mentioned

[bitonti]

Thibs sucks. He has no moves and a bad motor. an instant bust in the tradition of Vernon gholston 

Kyle Hamilton is not actually a safety. He's a Brian Urlacher style linebacker.