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Cimini on some draft buzz


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5 minutes ago, Zachtomims47 said:

I think Douglas is gonna try everything he can to trade back from 10. It's just no mans land. You might as well get an extra pick. Unless they LOVE one guy. 

I think it's EDGE and then OT if they stay though.

This is exactly what the strategy should be. If we are looking for a WR the value at whoever is available at 10 vs. say 19, 20, 21 etc is about equivalent.

Hopefully we can get a team to fall in love with one of these extremely MEH QBs and trade up to 10.

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8 hours ago, 65 Toss Power Trap said:

Completely agree. But the way you type this, it's like someone on the Jets is seriously considering this. If this was even a possibility, I would get night tremors.

not meaning it that way... I just keep seeing people on this board post stuff like "well still no WR in FA we better take G Wilson at 4 so we don't miss out" . 

my post is mostly for those posters and the notion that G Wilson or any WR is worth 10 let alone 4.... you want to tell me JD takes London/Burks/Wislon at 10 I mean I guess I could somewhat get around that but no way at 4.

I still think that JD has 4 guys he'd take at 4. Hutch, KT, Ekwonu, Sauce. and I don't think there is a scenario where he considers a WR at 4 not this WR class

 

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Consulting my cat again after the recent FA period, and looking at the draft, she predicts (not necessarily in order) Edge/DT round one, WR/RB in round two, LB and BPA round three. The priorities remain the same even if there's a trade down, preferably from four and not ten. 

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13 minutes ago, slats said:

Travon Walker is the guy I like for the Jets. Good production for his number of snaps, great test scores, and a guy who can play both inside and out. Seems both like a player JD would want to draft, and that Saleh would like on his team. If the Jets go defense, it has to be an Edge, imho. 
 
I don’t understand how Hamilton is still getting this unicorn attention after running that 4.59 40. The idea of taking a safety at #4 overall who ran that slow makes my brain want to collapse. 
 
We keep talking about the #4 & 10 picks, but I think it’s highly likely he trades one of them back to get some extra 2023 draft capital in return. I wouldn’t be surprised to learn that some preliminary trade discussions have already happened. 

We have a guy who can play both spots already JFM. Who ever the edge pick is has one job… get the QB. We don’t need “tweeners, we need guys from the DE spot who can rush.

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FWIW, Hughes just said in his podcast that Saleh likes his LBs and safeties group, and that the positions they’ll target in the draft are EDGE at 4, WR at ten, IDL, TE, and CBs in the second round. Saleh thinks the LBs will be better if the DL plays better, which is weird because Quinnen is there and they paid JFM already.

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1 minute ago, section314 said:

We have a guy who can play both spots already JFM. Who ever the edge pick is has one job… get the QB. We don’t need “tweeners, we need guys from the DE spot who can rush.

JFM is part of what would make Walker work so well here. Both can play inside and out, so they can line up in different spots, run stunts, etc., fluidly. Not to mention that both provide depth across the DL. It won’t surprise me to see him drafted before Thibs. 

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39 minutes ago, Stark said:

not meaning it that way... I just keep seeing people on this board post stuff like "well still no WR in FA we better take G Wilson at 4 so we don't miss out" . 

my post is mostly for those posters and the notion that G Wilson or any WR is worth 10 let alone 4.... you want to tell me JD takes London/Burks/Wislon at 10 I mean I guess I could somewhat get around that but no way at 4.

I still think that JD has 4 guys he'd take at 4. Hutch, KT, Ekwonu, Sauce. and I don't think there is a scenario where he considers a WR at 4 not this WR class

 

I agree

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4 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

FWIW, Hughes just said in his podcast that Saleh likes his LBs and safeties group, and that the positions they’ll target in the draft are EDGE at 4, WR at ten, IDL, TE, and CBs in the second round. Saleh thinks the LBs will be better if the DL plays better, which is weird because Quinnen is there and they paid JFM already.

They like to talk up QW, but I imagine that right now they don’t know whether he’s gonna be on the team in 2023 or be a comp pick in 2024. 

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27 minutes ago, slats said:

Travon Walker is the guy I like for the Jets. Good production for his number of snaps, great test scores, and a guy who can play both inside and out. Seems both like a player JD would want to draft, and that Saleh would like on his team. If the Jets go defense, it has to be an Edge, imho. 
 
I don’t understand how Hamilton is still getting this unicorn attention after running that 4.59 40. The idea of taking a safety at #4 overall who ran that slow makes my brain want to collapse. 
 
We keep talking about the #4 & 10 picks, but I think it’s highly likely he trades one of them back to get some extra 2023 draft capital in return. I wouldn’t be surprised to learn that some preliminary trade discussions have already happened. 

We’ve seen Walker before:

Gholston, Vernon - DE - OSU

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6 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

FWIW, Hughes just said in his podcast that Saleh likes his LBs and safeties group, and that the positions they’ll target in the draft are EDGE at 4, WR at ten, IDL, TE, and CBs in the second round. Saleh thinks the LBs will be better if the DL plays better, which is weird because Quinnen is there and they paid JFM already.

I could see Wyatt from UGA or Jones from UConn very easily on this team. Let’s be honest, though and address the elephant on the room. Q has got to be way better. All this trade talk stuff, wouldn’t be shocked at all if they  might be seeing what interest their is for Q.

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29 minutes ago, slats said:

Travon Walker is the guy I like for the Jets. Good production for his number of snaps, great test scores, and a guy who can play both inside and out. Seems both like a player JD would want to draft, and that Saleh would like on his team. If the Jets go defense, it has to be an Edge, imho. 
 
I don’t understand how Hamilton is still getting this unicorn attention after running that 4.59 40. The idea of taking a safety at #4 overall who ran that slow makes my brain want to collapse. 
 
We keep talking about the #4 & 10 picks, but I think it’s highly likely he trades one of them back to get some extra 2023 draft capital in return. I wouldn’t be surprised to learn that some preliminary trade discussions have already happened. 

Agreed Hamilton is a no at 4, If I’m a betting man I’d say Jets preference is Edge at 4 and Receiver at 10.

An outside possibility of Sauce at for and Edge at 10.

 

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1 hour ago, Adoni Beast said:

Depending on how the board falls etc I don't think this is a bad strategy as there should be some good EDGE players in Round 2 and 3.

However...if Walker or Hutchinson are there at 4 I don't think we pass on either.

I will be surprised if either is still on the board at 4.

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12 minutes ago, Stark said:

not meaning it that way... I just keep seeing people on this board post stuff like "well still no WR in FA we better take G Wilson at 4 so we don't miss out" . 

my post is mostly for those posters and the notion that G Wilson or any WR is worth 10 let alone 4.... you want to tell me JD takes London/Burks/Wislon at 10 I mean I guess I could somewhat get around that but no way at 4.

I still think that JD has 4 guys he'd take at 4. Hutch, KT, Ekwonu, Sauce. and I don't think there is a scenario where he considers a WR at 4 not this WR class

 

see the problem is that word worth. JD cant think like that.

you have 1 OL on your list of 4 " worthy " player to pick at 4. so your either going to bench either Fant our best or 2nd best OL last year or Becton or just trade Becton after 2 years cause he got hurt one year just for "worth" 

once we signed Laken OL should have been off everyone's list.

maybe for some of you its like when a girl breaks up with you but you still love her and think of ways to get back with her. so many of you guys were in love with Ekwonu and playing him at guard for a year or more then taking over at Tackle for either Fant or Becton. now with Laken that dream is over so you now go with the idea of just getting rid of Becton for Ekownu.

Hutch is probably gone by 4 and i cant kill KT or Sauce since we had the worst defense in history.

but we are limiting ourselves to just 4 players with a entire draft in front of us because of "worth". thats why i believe its much harder to pick in the top 5 or 10 then it is at 31 for instance. im sure Cincy has a much larger list of players than we do. 

ever wonder how the good teams stay good? cause at the back of the draft they can pick whoever they want. 

JD has to throw out the whole "worthy" thing and pick who he really wants. 

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23 minutes ago, 92ShaunEllis92 said:

We’ve seen Walker before:

Gholston, Vernon - DE - OSU

The guy with good sack production and terrible agility drills who didn't actually want to play football?

The *only* pass rushers who should have Gholston thrown out as a cautionary tale are the ones who aren't able to change direction and the guys who have effort questions. Walker doesn't fall into either category.

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Just now, derp said:

The guy with good sack production and terrible agility drills who didn't actually want to play football?

The *only* pass rushers who should have Gholston thrown out as a cautionary tale are the ones who aren't able to change direction and the guys who have effort questions. Walker doesn't fall into either category.

Doesn’t fall under pass rusher either cause he aint good at it.

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It’s looking like Edge at 4. If the board breaks edge 1,2,3 (unlikely but possible), I hope we grab Ickey. Becton has questions and Fant is older on a 1 year deal and missed time the last 2 years. I love Sauce as well but it’s easier to find corners later and in FA. From a value perspective the elite tackle makes sense in the top 5.

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3 minutes ago, Scoop24 said:

I was looking for some draft buzz . Not cimini opinion… 

Since there was zero buzz about the Jets trading up last year to to take AVT and I don't recall seeing us tied to Elijah Moore, so just about all draft buzz is about as useful as Cimini's opinion. 

The only thing we knew last year was that the Jets were going to take Wilson, which didn't have to be kept a secret since everyone already knew the Jags were taking Lawrence so there was no need to keep our pick a secret. 

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8 minutes ago, JoJoTownsell1 said:

Since there was zero buzz about the Jets trading up last year to to take AVT and I don't recall seeing us tied to Elijah Moore, so just about all draft buzz is about as useful as Cimini's opinion. 

The only thing we knew last year was that the Jets were going to take Wilson, which didn't have to be kept a secret since everyone already knew the Jags were taking Lawrence so there was no need to keep our pick a secret. 

it was no secret jets loved AVT. That was well documented through out the process. Especially if you listened to Connor Hughes podcast even Dj was saying it but didnt think he would be there for us at 21. The trade wasn’t predicted. But interest in the player was out there.  No one even had Moore in rd 2. That even surprised the jets who even tried to trade back into back end of rd 1 to get him. 

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10 minutes ago, derp said:

The guy with good sack production and terrible agility drills who didn't actually want to play football?

The *only* pass rushers who should have Gholston thrown out as a cautionary tale are the ones who aren't able to change direction and the guys who have effort questions. Walker doesn't fall into either category.

Game tape don’t lie. He has talent and is a tweener, at best, with no real position and has exponentially shot up draft boards due to his  combine performance. He doesn’t know how to rush the passer and that’s what the Jets defense needs. 
 

Seen this before: Vernon Gholston. 

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Round 1 Edge Options (4 or 10) - Hutch, Thibs, Walker, Jermaine Johnson 

Round 2 Edge Options: Mafe, Ebikede, Ojabo as a stash, 

Round 1 CB Options: Sauce, Stingley, McDuffie

Round 2 CB Options: Booth, Elam

Round 1 WR Options: Drake, Wilson, Williams, maybeeee Burks

Round 2 WR Options: Maybe/doubtful: Olave/Dotson, Watson, Pickens

Round 1 S Options: Hamilton

Round 2 S Options: Hill, Cine, Brisker, Pitre

 

 

There really isn't a position we're targeting that has a massive drop off in talent from Round 1 to 2 IMO. As much as people talk about Hamilton's unicorn status I think Cine or Hill (don't think he makes it) would be great selections in round 2. Given the priority of edge in this scheme I think I'd rather just make sure one of the first rounders is an edge - but as far as 2nd round edge options this class is pretty solid. 

I'd prioritize edge and WR b/c of their importance to the Jets. Wilson's development is #1 and getting your pick of WR to compliment him the best (at worst I think we're getting the 2nd WR - could def see ATL taking one) should take priority. I also think if they are good at CB - the other 2nd round pick could be used to get a DT or LB (lot of good potential options at LB including potentially Dean - but like Chanel, Muma as well) 

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34 minutes ago, slats said:

JFM is part of what would make Walker work so well here. Both can play inside and out, so they can line up in different spots, run stunts, etc., fluidly. Not to mention that both provide depth across the DL. It won’t surprise me to see him drafted before Thibs. 

I think one of the big questions that relates to Walker and JFM is what their plan is for JFM short-medium-long-term. The defense as far as I understand it is basically supposed to have two guys responsible for eating up blockers but instead of the defensive tackles being the ones to eat up blockers one is a DT and one is a DE - last year that was Fatukasi and JFM in theory. Then that big DE spends some time at DT on passing downs. The 49ers have the same thing - their jumbo DE is/was Arik Armstead. But last year Armstead kicked inside to DT more and that defense absolutely took off. The front is supposed to be disruptive, and getting that better rush inside and another better rusher on the field is very helpful.

At this point the Jets have lost Fatukasi, I'm not sure we truly know what the long-term plan with Quinnen Williams is, and Fatukasi hasn't been replaced. Barring another acquisition, that means a) they're planning potentially drafting a run stuffing DT and starting him b) Quinnen is going to shift from the 3 technique role to the eat up blocks role, JFM plays more inside, and that opens up JFM's spot or the most boring c) Quinnen shifts to the eat up blockers spot and Rankins starts next to him.

I think there are a bunch of different iterations of how that plays out, but c) doesn't seem especially likely and I'd expect at least one defensive lineman in the first round. I'd rather the defensive front gets more dynamic than less dynamic and so Walker with JFM inside is probably more appealing than Jordan Davis taking Fatukasi's spot - much as that is possible. I'm sure there are a bunch of other scenarios - Wyatt or Winfrey to play three technique after a trade down, Karlaftis and kick JFM inside after a trade down.

I also know everyone wants a WR at ten but if that's one scenario then I don't think we can eliminate taking a pass rush first guy with the other first round pick. Ojabo I'd think could have been on the table before the injury so that probably just leaves Jermaine Johnson at this point. Or they do something else in the first and take a guy to develop. I don't know to what extent Jacob Martin fills that role for an edge behind Lawson to play passing downs, but a premium pick on someone to rotate with Lawson and take over for him does make sense conceptually. Or they could wait a little and take Ojabo and redshirt him, Mafe, Ebiketie, Bonitto...

Verbose way of saying that need wise, the first round defensive linemen available more fit somehow shuffling the DT spots and JFM than Lawson's role. Which does lend a little credence to the idea of going WR - unless they're able to grab Johnson - or something that will seem more off the wall like a defensive back or linebacker. I do think linebacker would be one to watch.

Think the sweet spot for offensive skill guys is 20-40 and I'm not sure it's just wide receiver. The position is devalued but Breece Hall may be a cleaner running back prospect than any wide receiver is as a wide receiver prospect - scheme fit, team captain, elite production, elite athletic profile. Curious how they liked Christian Watson at the Senior Bowl but I think he ticks scheme fit, the kind of athlete Douglas likes to draft, and where he has drafted wide receivers in the past.

I'm not sure Walker makes it to the Jets but think he's a Douglas/Saleh wet dream. Freak athlete, national champion, military family, premium position, position flexibility. 

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18 minutes ago, Scoop24 said:

Doesn’t fall under pass rusher either cause he aint good at it.

That doesn't make Gholston a good comparison.

Guys often develop into better pass rushers at the professional level.

I don't think anyone in this class who isn't going #1 and has an intact Achilles is a good pass rusher.

 

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8 minutes ago, 92ShaunEllis92 said:

Game tape don’t lie. He has talent and is a tweener, at best, with no real position and has exponentially shot up draft boards due to his  combine performance. He doesn’t know how to rush the passer and that’s what the Jets defense needs. 
 

Seen this before: Vernon Gholston. 

Vernon Gholston didn't shoot up the board at the combine, wasn't a tweener, and had a clear position. The comparison is terrible.

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11 hours ago, doitny said:

those people had to change after Laken. 

were going to have the best OL on the worst team cause we used no high picks on playmakers or defense. ridiculous. 

I thought the same. Seems like a poor use of resources to me. However, just to give one example, Connor Hughes even after we signed Tomlinson said “if Ekwonu is there at #4, the Jets will have a hard time passing on him. He is the quintessential Joe Douglas player. He’s nasty, versatile etc”. I use Hughes as an example because he has been mostly spot on this offseason. Even those that have inside info on this board have said the same thing about how much we love Ekwonu. All roads point to Ekwonu being our guy just like all roads pointed to Wilson being our guy last year.

Ekwonu may not be there though. So, this maybe pointless.

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27 minutes ago, derp said:

The guy with good sack production and terrible agility drills who didn't actually want to play football?

The *only* pass rushers who should have Gholston thrown out as a cautionary tale are the ones who aren't able to change direction and the guys who have effort questions. Walker doesn't fall into either category.

When I heard Gholston talk, I would wonder if he was on Lithium, or something. 

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1 minute ago, genot said:

When I heard Gholston talk, I would wonder if he was on Lithium, or something. 

Not everybody needs to like Walker as a prospect, but I feel like Jets fans bring up Gholston for pretty much any pass rusher they don't like and it's silly. Especially for athletic ones or guys with production questions - but Gholston had 8.5 sacks as a sophomore and 14 as a junior. There were no production questions.

He didn't want to play football, and aside from that the big knock would be flexibility - but if he wanted to play I'm sure he would've overcome it.

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