Cimini on some draft buzz

[92ShaunEllis92]

25 minutes ago, derp said:

Vernon Gholston didn't shoot up the board at the combine, wasn't a tweener, and had a clear position. The comparison is terrible.

Ha!! Ok. Selective memory much!?!?

typical of the times nowadays, deny the truth

 

He was an athletic specimen gym rat who was a tweener DE/OLB (for the 2008 Jets’ 3-4 Defense purposes) who only became a 1st rounder (when most speculated 2nd round) AFTER his INSANE combine results. 
 

get educated! Then type. 

[T0mShane]

I’d rather draft Walker over Thibodeaux. If Thibodeaux ends up not getting sacks, the rest of what he is won’t be worth the hassle. If Walker doesn’t get sacks, at least you have yourself a high-end brawler on the edge. Also, I don’t think the foundation is in place to handle a high-maintenance guy like Thibodeaux. Who’s going to keep him focused here? Saleh doesn’t do discipline.

[HawkeyeJet]

As the owner of the Jets in this years JN mock draft, I can confirm Cimini is being fed false information.  He has not contacted me for my input, so take his insights with a huge grain of salt.

[BornJetsFan1983]

2 hours ago, Stark said:

not meaning it that way... I just keep seeing people on this board post stuff like "well still no WR in FA we better take G Wilson at 4 so we don't miss out" . 

my post is mostly for those posters and the notion that G Wilson or any WR is worth 10 let alone 4.... you want to tell me JD takes London/Burks/Wislon at 10 I mean I guess I could somewhat get around that but no way at 4.

I still think that JD has 4 guys he'd take at 4. Hutch, KT, Ekwonu, Sauce. and I don't think there is a scenario where he considers a WR at 4 not this WR class

 

Sauce is he CB right?

Why the hell would anyone brake him in the top 10?

That's how to waste a pick

[DetroitRed]

Does anyone know who is the highest drafted free safety in NFL history? What number overall did they go?

[BornJetsFan1983]

10 minutes ago, 92ShaunEllis92 said:

Ha!! Ok. Selective memory much!?!?

typical of the times nowadays, deny the truth

 

He was an athletic specimen gym rat who was a tweener DE/OLB (for the 2008 Jets’ 3-4 Defense purposes) who only became a 1st rounder (when most speculated 2nd round) AFTER his INSANE combine results. 
 

get educated! Then type. 

Oh man gholston...was it as bad as I remember? Yes yes it was

[92ShaunEllis92]

5 minutes ago, DetroitRed said:

Does anyone know who is the highest drafted free safety in NFL history? What number overall did they go?

Eric Turner was #2 overall in 1991

Bennie Blades from the U was #3 overall in ‘88 as a CB then switched to Safety

[derp]

13 minutes ago, Beerfish said:

Barkevious Walker

I genuinely don't think there are a lot of good comparisons because Walker's an inside/outside guy which has been a knock for guys like Aldon Smith, but Walker is also a pretty freaky athlete. A lot of the crazy athletic guys who go early are smaller pure pass rush options - like Mingo - who actually was productive as a sophomore and didn't take the next step people expected, plus the 2013 draft was horrible.

Being stout and having good arm length reminds me of the profiles guys like Jason Pierre-Paul and Chandler Jones had coming out - neither had good college pass rush production. Had not come from the national champions and then run a 4.7 and you could get him in that mid first round area that'd be ideal. He just happens to be an odd blend of several minimal pass rush production profiles and come from a hyped program so he's certainly an expensive developmental guy. As you've pointed out, this draft class 

[bitonti]

3 hours ago, Tranquilo said:

Wait, you want to pay Christian Kirk 84 million?!

I want the team to spend to the cap, every year 

I want the team to extend homegrown players and guys on their last year of their deal to make more cap space, to spend on more players 

I want the Jets to not just be rebuilding forever. I want them to actually win 

Somewhere along the way Jets fans were conned into thinking about cap space as a substitute for victory 

This whole treating the cap as a hard ceiling is for suckers 

 

[Stark]

1 hour ago, doitny said:

see the problem is that word worth. JD cant think like that.

you have 1 OL on your list of 4 " worthy " player to pick at 4. so your either going to bench either Fant our best or 2nd best OL last year or Becton or just trade Becton after 2 years cause he got hurt one year just for "worth" 

once we signed Laken OL should have been off everyone's list.

maybe for some of you its like when a girl breaks up with you but you still love her and think of ways to get back with her. so many of you guys were in love with Ekwonu and playing him at guard for a year or more then taking over at Tackle for either Fant or Becton. now with Laken that dream is over so you now go with the idea of just getting rid of Becton for Ekownu.

Hutch is probably gone by 4 and i cant kill KT or Sauce since we had the worst defense in history.

but we are limiting ourselves to just 4 players with a entire draft in front of us because of "worth". thats why i believe its much harder to pick in the top 5 or 10 then it is at 31 for instance. im sure Cincy has a much larger list of players than we do. 

ever wonder how the good teams stay good? cause at the back of the draft they can pick whoever they want. 

JD has to throw out the whole "worthy" thing and pick who he really wants. 

Fant's contract is done after this season it wouldn't be the worst thing if OL was the pick at 4. is it ideal? maybe not in 2022 but injuries happen and also if JD doesn't want to pay Fant over $23 mil or say Becton falls flat. 

to your point. we have pick 10 that could be used to move around the draft or get a player at a later point in the draft or used in a trade to acquire a player at a desired position.. picking a G Wilson @ 4 just because would be dumb IMO.

JD "wants" - if you can tell us then we can just eliminate all conversations about the draft. I don't think he wants a WR at 4

[Stark]

11 minutes ago, BornJetsFan1983 said:

Sauce is he CB right?

Why the hell would anyone brake him in the top 10?

That's how to waste a pick

lol ok. 

[bitonti]

17 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

I’d rather draft Walker over Thibodeaux. If Thibodeaux ends up not getting sacks, the rest of what he is won’t be worth the hassle. If Walker doesn’t get sacks, at least you have yourself a high-end brawler on the edge. Also, I don’t think the foundation is in place to handle a high-maintenance guy like Thibodeaux. Who’s going to keep him focused here? Saleh doesn’t do discipline.

The Jets should draft a rising player at 4 not some bum that the top 3 teams did not want. Like it's some kind of deal. That's essentially how they got darnold 

[Beerfish]

1 minute ago, derp said:

I genuinely don't think there are a lot of good comparisons because Walker's an inside/outside guy which has been a knock for guys like Aldon Smith, but Walker is also a pretty freaky athlete. A lot of the crazy athletic guys who go early are smaller pure pass rush options - like Mingo - who actually was productive as a sophomore and didn't take the next step people expected, plus the 2013 draft was horrible.

Being stout and having good arm length reminds me of the profiles guys like Jason Pierre-Paul and Chandler Jones had coming out - neither had good college pass rush production. Had not come from the national champions and then run a 4.7 and you could get him in that mid first round area that'd be ideal. He just happens to be an odd blend of several minimal pass rush production profiles and come from a hyped program so he's certainly an expensive developmental guy. As you've pointed out, this draft class 

I actually agree player wise they are not the same but sack production and combine lift is there.

As one of the people that do not want to draft Walker at least not at 4 I do not hate the player.  I actually think he will be a decent NFL player.  I also think he is not going to be a pass rusher and we need a pass rusher.  We do not need a DE version of JFM or Quinnen. (at best)

As much as I am not in favor of drafting a secondary player at 4 I'd draft Sauce Gardner if Hutchison is gone.  He is one of the few premium at his position players in this draft.

[DetroitRed]

12 minutes ago, 92ShaunEllis92 said:

Eric Turner was #2 overall in 1991

Bennie Blades from the U was #3 overall in ‘88 as a CB then switched to Safety

Wow.  So this would be historic territory.  Sounds like a big no way

[derp]

14 minutes ago, 92ShaunEllis92 said:

Ha!! Ok. Selective memory much!?!?

typical of the times nowadays, deny the truth

 

He was an athletic specimen gym rat who was a tweener DE/OLB (for the 2008 Jets’ 3-4 Defense purposes) who only became a 1st rounder (when most speculated 2nd round) AFTER his INSANE combine results. 
 

get educated! Then type. 

He was a top ten pick before the combine, the article you found on google doesn't change that. Athletic guys (he was always athletic, regardless of the combine) coming off a 14 sack year at Ohio State don't slip out of the top ten. I was only able to find three pre-combine 2008 mock drafts, but all three had Gholston picked 7th or 8th. The idea he was a second round pick before the combine is comical.

When you see positions listed these days they just list EDGE, iDL, off ball LB. Gholston was a pure edge, that's all he played in college, never interior defensive line. I presumed when you called Walker a tweener it was because he played edge and interior defensive line in college. Regardless, Gholston didn't play DT in college, he was a pure defensive end, and Walker did. Even if you want to stretch it and call Gholston a "tweener" as if there's a meaningful difference between 4-3 DE and and 3-4 OLB, they're not even the same kind of tweener. So again, I don't think the comparison makes sense.

[derp]

4 minutes ago, Beerfish said:

I actually agree player wise they are not the same but sack production and combine lift is there.

As one of the people that do not want to draft Walker at least not at 4 I do not hate the player.  I actually think he will be a decent NFL player.  I also think he is not going to be a pass rusher and we need a pass rusher.  We do not need a DE version of JFM or Quinnen. (at best)

As much as I am not in favor of drafting a secondary player at 4 I'd draft Sauce Gardner if Hutchison is gone.  He is one of the few premium at his position players in this draft.

Mingo was projected higher than he ended up getting drafted heading into that college season because he had an eight sack sophomore year and all the bend, etc traits that folks loved so he was expected to take the next step. No combine lift. He was always hyped.

[92ShaunEllis92]

2 minutes ago, Beerfish said:

I actually agree player wise they are not the same but sack production and combine lift is there.

As one of the people that do not want to draft Walker at least not at 4 I do not hate the player.  I actually think he will be a decent NFL player.  I also think he is not going to be a pass rusher and we need a pass rusher.  We do not need a DE version of JFM or Quinnen. (at best)

As much as I am not in favor of drafting a secondary player at 4 I'd draft Sauce Gardner if Hutchison is gone.  He is one of the few premium at his position players in this draft.

Thank you!!! Perfectly said  

I don’t hate Walker, but walker at 4 is a HUGE NO because we need a PR and he’s shown not to be that. 
 

I take JJ over Walker at 4, Sauce above OLine, Thibs and Walker @#4. That’s IF I MUST make the selection. 
 

@Beerfish Nailed it 

[92ShaunEllis92]

5 minutes ago, DetroitRed said:

Wow.  So this would be historic territory.  Sounds like a big no way

Yeah………picked by the Browns and Lions, respectively. Two exemplary franchises when it comes to drafting, lol.

[Mogglez]

4 hours ago, bitonti said:

Jets Fans talk about paying players like Woody's going to send us a refund in the mail 

80 million sounds like alot except for the fact that they were 120 under for 2023

The roster is underfunded every season, this one too 

80 million sounds like a lot because Christian Kirk isn’t worth 80 million.  I don’t care about paying a player that is worth it, I care about financially tying yourself to a WR3 for 5 years by giving him WR1 money.  This is pretty basic common sense.

[FootballLove]

1 hour ago, section314 said:

If they had gotten Collins, I think that would have been the plan. His value right now is as high as possible.

I get ya. But if JD drafts a Tackle with the 4th overall, or 10th, then we assume it's Becton on the chopping block. But Fant probably has a higher trade value after how well he performed in 2021 while Becton was on cruches. Plus for us, Becton is still on his rookie deal and could be moved to the RT spot. If JD goes the Tackle route, I can see Fant traded b4 Becton, that's all.

[chirorob]

2 hours ago, Untouchable said:

You don’t draft an OL in the Top 5 with the intention of him being a backup as a rookie.

If the Jets decide to trade Becton (which I think has a higher chance of happening than many tend to believe), then I’m not totally against Ekwonu, though even then I’d still prefer taking a guy like Penning at #10.

But if you’re keeping Becton, then you take one of the edgerushers, Gardner or even Wilson at #4.

Over the last 23 months, Douglas has invested big money in Fant, McGovern and Tomlinson while also investing two Top 15 picks in Becton and AVT.

To further invest a Top 5 pick in the unit after all of that is just silly unless you’ve reached the conclusion that Becton is a fat, immature puss who doesn’t posses the drive to be successful and you want nothing to do with him moving forward.

Well, neither Fant nor Becton has played 16 games (fant has only missed a few to his credit).

This year, you see if Fant can repeat what he did, and if Becton can be relied on.   If Becton can be a monster, you let Fant go, and now you have 2 young bookend tackles for years to come.

[Jets Voice of Reason]

7 minutes ago, derp said:

He was a top ten pick before the combine, the article you found on google doesn't change that. Athletic guys (he was always athletic, regardless of the combine) coming off a 14 sack year at Ohio State don't slip out of the top ten. I was only able to find three pre-combine 2008 mock drafts, but all three had Gholston picked 7th or 8th. The idea he was a second round pick before the combine is comical.

When you see positions listed these days they just list EDGE, iDL, off ball LB. Gholston was a pure edge, that's all he played in college, never interior defensive line. I presumed when you called Walker a tweener it was because he played edge and interior defensive line in college. Regardless, Gholston didn't play DT in college, he was a pure defensive end, and Walker did. Even if you want to stretch it and call Gholston a "tweener" as if there's a meaningful difference between 4-3 DE and and 3-4 OLB, they're not even the same kind of tweener. So again, I don't think the comparison makes sense.

I remember that draft cycle. The sheer amount of Gholston running through Jake Long highlight clip burned into the memory. He was very much top 10 pick the whole time.

[JoJoTownsell1]

32 minutes ago, 92ShaunEllis92 said:

Ha!! Ok. Selective memory much!?!?

typical of the times nowadays, deny the truth

 

He was an athletic specimen gym rat who was a tweener DE/OLB (for the 2008 Jets’ 3-4 Defense purposes) who only became a 1st rounder (when most speculated 2nd round) AFTER his INSANE combine results. 
 

get educated! Then type. 

Gholston was always going in the top 10-15 that year. 

This mock from before the combine in 2008 had him going 10 to the Pats:

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/9170-NFL-New_England_<a href=

His Combine definitely pushed up his draft stock, but you would hard pressed to find a mock draft of the 2008 NFL draft from before the combine that didn't have Gholston in the middle of the 1st round. 

[Tranquilo]

26 minutes ago, bitonti said:

I want the team to spend to the cap, every year 

I want the team to extend homegrown players and guys on their last year of their deal to make more cap space, to spend on more players 

I want the Jets to not just be rebuilding forever. I want them to actually win 

Somewhere along the way Jets fans were conned into thinking about cap space as a substitute for victory 

This whole treating the cap as a hard ceiling is for suckers 

 

Didn't they just do that with Braxton Berrios?

In case you missed it, the last time we spent like sailors, after our two AFC Title runs, we haven't made the playoffs since, in part, because we ****ed ourselves with spending too much on players who didn't pan out. 

Why would we go on a spending splurge right now when the team is clearly not contending yet? We're still building a foundation. And we're still spending too, just more carefully and on players who will be here for the long run. I'm trying to think of the last team that took a big leap after spending a ton in an offseason, and sustained that leap for multiple years.

[Greenseed4]

4 hours ago, FidelioJet said:

I really don't like the idea of it.  The team desperately needs playmakers.

With that said, I get the sense the Jets don't like McGovern - they seem to have been trying to replace him for two years now..  So, it wouldn't shock me if you were right.

 

We can get a WR/TE in the second and/or third rounds. 

[JustInFudge]

34 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

I’d rather draft Walker over Thibodeaux. If Thibodeaux ends up not getting sacks, the rest of what he is won’t be worth the hassle. If Walker doesn’t get sacks, at least you have yourself a high-end brawler on the edge. Also, I don’t think the foundation is in place to handle a high-maintenance guy like Thibodeaux. Who’s going to keep him focused here? Saleh doesn’t do discipline.

Agreed.  I think in the end you get Calvin Pace vs. a potential mega bust like Clelin Ferrell or some sh*t.

[Pointdexter]

I'm surprised there's not more love for Jermaine Johnson. He has the highest floor among the ends in my opinion, to go along with a nice ceiling as well. Never stop motor. High character, work ethic, locker room guy. Fast. Strong. Creates havoc in the backfield almost every play he's in there. He had 11 sacks last year but should probably be credited on at least 22 due to chasing the QB into another player's arms.

 

Player comparison, Johnson vs "Thibs":

Sacks - Johnson

Run support - Johnson

Hustle plays - Johnson

Leadership/character - Johnson

 

So why do we love "Thibs" so much? He gets a lot of mileage off preseason hype and draft lists. Makes you think you're getting a bargain I guess. The reality is you're just getting the inferior player in every way.

[genot]

1 hour ago, Beerfish said:

Barkevious Walker

Huh. 

[RedBeardedSavage]

2 minutes ago, Pointdexter said:

I'm surprised there's not more love for Jermaine Johnson. He has the highest floor among the ends in my opinion, to go along with a nice ceiling as well. Never stop motor. High character, work ethic, locker room guy. Fast. Strong. Creates havoc in the backfield almost every play he's in there. He had 11 sacks last year but should probably be credited on at least 22 due to chasing the QB into another player's arms.

 

Player comparison, Johnson vs "Thibs":

Sacks - Johnson

Run support - Johnson

Hustle plays - Johnson

Leadership/character - Johnson

 

So why do we love "Thibs" so much? He gets a lot of mileage off preseason hype and draft lists. Makes you think you're getting a bargain I guess. The reality is you're just getting the inferior player in every way.

[JustInFudge]

25 minutes ago, Jets Voice of Reason said:

I remember that draft cycle. The sheer amount of Gholston running through Jake Long highlight clip burned into the memory. He was very much top 10 pick the whole time.

100%.  The combine actually gave you pause because he was a stiff w/ just straight line power. 

 

[JustInFudge]

4 minutes ago, Pointdexter said:

I'm surprised there's not more love for Jermaine Johnson. He has the highest floor among the ends in my opinion, to go along with a nice ceiling as well. Never stop motor. High character, work ethic, locker room guy. Fast. Strong. Creates havoc in the backfield almost every play he's in there. He had 11 sacks last year but should probably be credited on at least 22 due to chasing the QB into another player's arms.

 

Player comparison, Johnson vs "Thibs":

Sacks - Johnson

Run support - Johnson

Hustle plays - Johnson

Leadership/character - Johnson

 

So why do we love "Thibs" so much? He gets a lot of mileage off preseason hype and draft lists. Makes you think you're getting a bargain I guess. The reality is you're just getting the inferior player in every way.

I said it about 5 pages ago, this draft is easy AF IMO.  Sauce at 4, Johnson at 10.  Easy peazy lemon squeezy. 

[Guilhermezmc]

1 hour ago, T0mShane said:

I’d rather draft Walker over Thibodeaux. If Thibodeaux ends up not getting sacks, the rest of what he is won’t be worth the hassle. If Walker doesn’t get sacks, at least you have yourself a high-end brawler on the edge. Also, I don’t think the foundation is in place to handle a high-maintenance guy like Thibodeaux. Who’s going to keep him focused here? Saleh doesn’t do discipline.

Walker tape doesn't lie, he can't rush the passer. Its ugly.

[genot]

56 minutes ago, derp said:

I genuinely don't think there are a lot of good comparisons because Walker's an inside/outside guy which has been a knock for guys like Aldon Smith, but Walker is also a pretty freaky athlete. A lot of the crazy athletic guys who go early are smaller pure pass rush options - like Mingo - who actually was productive as a sophomore and didn't take the next step people expected, plus the 2013 draft was horrible.

Being stout and having good arm length reminds me of the profiles guys like Jason Pierre-Paul and Chandler Jones had coming out - neither had good college pass rush production. Had not come from the national champions and then run a 4.7 and you could get him in that mid first round area that'd be ideal. He just happens to be an odd blend of several minimal pass rush production profiles and come from a hyped program so he's certainly an expensive developmental guy. As you've pointed out, this draft class 

It was a surprisingly terrible comparison.

[genot]

Just now, Guilhermezmc said:

Walker tape doesn't lie, he can't rush the passer. Its ugly.

He had 7 pressures lining up against, guess who. Evan Neal., in the championship game. 

[Sonny Werblin]

2 hours ago, Adoni Beast said:

You think its Sauce time at 4...OT?

Trade down would probably be the best choice (if possible)

If they draft Sauce, I am convinced they will trade Hall, maybe even on draft day.