Blessing in Disguise - Sometimes, the best Trades are the ones you Don't Make

[MaybeOneDay]

I wanted Tyreek Hill as much as anyone....that was some exciting hour or so...but, even during the "negotiations", I had some lingering questions in my mind:

1) Ty wants to get PAID (obviously).  Sometimes, these guys, once they get that huge pay day, just don't play to the same intensity.  I think the Chiefs had something special with Mahomes / Hill / Kelce.  Given Hill's off the field proclivities (more on that in a moment), I can certainly see a scenario where Hill is not as intense or as focused outside of that Chiefs structure.   How's Hill going to perform down in Miami when the 6-6 Fins have a big game up in Buffalo?  Buyer beware, I think...

2) Hill's had his off the field issues.  Never know when these are going to pop back up.  

3) That was an awful lot of Draft Capital to give up for this guy

4) That was an awful lot of money / cap space guaranteed 

5) I don't know if I'm seeing things through Jets-colored glasses, but Elijah Moore sure looked special to me last year.  There were moments where he looked unstoppable.  Sure would have been nice to have a "big dog" in Hill, but to be honest, not sure him and Moore would be the best complements to each other.  I think Moore can flourish and become one of the best WR's in the NFL...not sure how having a big time # 1 WR  stunts that development.  I have a feeling by November we all may be feeling a lot better about not having Hill on this team.

6) Let's face it, look around the AFC right now, the competition is just fierce.  Even with Ty Hill and even if Zach Wilson turns into Brett Favre, I'm not sure that's enough to get this team anywhere close to the Super Bowl this year.  It's going to be a grind, and realistically, even if everything goes well, it's going to be a few years until this team is seriously ready to compete at that upper echelon level.  Hill is 28...by the time this team is seriously a contender, he's probably on the downside of his career.

7) Draft capital and cap space....we still got them in spades.  Let's see what Joe D comes up with.  In a vacuum, I prefer Garrett Wilson, but a Drake London at 10 makes a ton of sense.  First, he'd be a great complement to Moore and Davis.  And the kid is only 20 years old, will be 21 when training camp starts.  

Sometimes, the best trades are the ones you Fail to make...I just have a sneaky suspicion the Jets dodged a bullet here, and we are going to look back  in a few years to see that this was a blessing in disguise.  

[T0mShane]

^Douglas alt

[92ShaunEllis92]

I strongly believe, as someone mentioned in other thread:

JD drove up the price and NEVER would have paid that much. He just KILLED the fins cap and drafts for the foreseeable future; only exacerbated if the fins don’t produce and win with all that FA $$$ spent. Rosenhuas, like ALL OTHER PLAYER AGENTS used the Jets for more $$$. JD obliged knowing full well Hill was always going to choose Miami; like Antonio Winfield, Anthony Barr, Favre, etc: players USE THE JETS to get what they want from another team!
 

JD was Machiavelli’s The Prince in driving up the price 

[k-met57]

i am ok with it, and will keep repeating it over and over....i dont care what he does or doesnt do, as long as the team ******* wins some games in the next 2 years.

[GangGreen Machine]

Allegedly strangled his pregnant GF and punched her several times in the stomach

Allegedly broke his 3 year olds arm for misbehaving and loses custody of him

Allegedly forces his toddler to open up his arms and punches him in the chest when he misbehaves

Confirmed: Tells his now fiance that "she should be terrified of him too, b**th"

If TB12 himself did these things before the super bowls I wouldn't want him as a Jet.

This human being is indefensible. 

[Adoni Beast]

I believe we really lost out on possible THE KEY piece this team needed.

However at least Vegas isn't crazy about the trade:

Pre-trade Super Bowl Odds:

Chiefs +900

Dolphins +5000

Post-trade Super Bowl Odds:

Chiefs +900

Dolphins +5000

[oatmeal]

5 minutes ago, 92ShaunEllis92 said:

I strongly believe, as someone mentioned in other thread:

JD drove up the price and NEVER would have paid that much. He just KILLED the fins cap and drafts for the foreseeable future; only exacerbated if the fins don’t produce and win with all that FA $$$ spent. 
 

JD was Machiavelli’s The Prince in driving up the price 

Yea that’s why offers to both hill and chefs were in place and it was up to tyreik to decide

but hey you can believe the fan fiction if choose ?‍♂️

[Larz]

We almost got stuck with the best proven weapon in the league 

[JustInFudge]

I envy you.

[oatmeal]

Just now, Larz said:

We almost got stuck with the best proven weapon in the league 

Lmaoo the spin the Jets fans put on things 

[92ShaunEllis92]

Hill is NOT the missing key piece for this team to be successful: we have his younger and less-problematic comp in E. Moore. 
 

The KEY missing piece? A WR taller than 6’3” who can catch: Drake London

[BigRy56]

Hard to spin this one in a positive light. The Jets would have been set up for extreme success on offense, with 0 holes and an elite weapon in Hill. It would’ve allowed JD to round the defense out in the draft and send the Jets into training camp looking like a potential playoff team on paper, or at least a team that would give us the clearest picture of who Zach Wilson could be.

Perhaps JD accomplishes the WR splash from another angle, but it likely won’t be for a player of Hill’s caliber. Now we can just hope Tyreek cashes in and checks out in Miami - it is possible 

[OtherwiseHappyinLife]

7 minutes ago, MaybeOneDay said:

I wanted Tyreek Hill as much as anyone....that was some exciting hour or so...but, even during the "negotiations", I had some lingering questions in my mind:

1) Ty wants to get PAID (obviously).  Sometimes, these guys, once they get that huge pay day, just don't play to the same intensity.  I think the Chiefs had something special with Mahomes / Hill / Kelce.  Given Hill's off the field proclivities (more on that in a moment), I can certainly see a scenario where Hill is not as intense or as focused outside of that Chiefs structure.   How's Hill going to perform down in Miami when the 6-6 Fins have a big game up in Buffalo?  Buyer beware, I think...

2) Hill's had his off the field issues.  Never know when these are going to pop back up.  

3) That was an awful lot of Draft Capital to give up for this guy

4) That was an awful lot of money / cap space guaranteed 

5) I don't know if I'm seeing things through Jets-colored glasses, but Elijah Moore sure looked special to me last year.  There were moments where he looked unstoppable.  Sure would have been nice to have a "big dog" in Hill, but to be honest, not sure him and Moore would be the best complements to each other.  I think Moore can flourish and become one of the best WR's in the NFL...not sure how having a big time # 1 WR  stunts that development.  I have a feeling by November we all may be feeling a lot better about not having Hill on this team.

6) Let's face it, look around the AFC right now, the competition is just fierce.  Even with Ty Hill and even if Zach Wilson turns into Brett Favre, I'm not sure that's enough to get this team anywhere close to the Super Bowl this year.  It's going to be a grind, and realistically, even if everything goes well, it's going to be a few years until this team is seriously ready to compete at that upper echelon level.  Hill is 28...by the time this team is seriously a contender, he's probably on the downside of his career.

7) Draft capital and cap space....we still got them in spades.  Let's see what Joe D comes up with.  In a vacuum, I prefer Garrett Wilson, but a Drake London at 10 makes a ton of sense.  First, he'd be a great complement to Moore and Davis.  And the kid is only 20 years old, will be 21 when training camp starts.  

Sometimes, the best trades are the ones you Fail to make...I just have a sneaky suspicion the Jets dodged a bullet here, and we are going to look back  in a few years to see that this was a blessing in disguise.  

Agree with a lot except for it will be a few years before the Jets can be a serious contender.  Will that be year 7 for JD?   We have to expect more!
 

Being a contender will depend on the development of Wilson, Moore, the play of the offensive line and if JD can nail this year’s draft.  Things can turn around quickly in the NFL if you pick the right players and can develop a franchise QB.  At this point, JD gets a D for his first draft and a cautiously optimistic B+ for last year’s which can turn into an A+ if Wilson develops into that franchise QB and Moore & AVT turn into studs.  I’m very pleased with his approach to free agency (injuries aside), his trades, salary cap management and the go forward flexibility to make bold moves.
 

In any event, very good list and agree with your overall sentiment that the Jets are not contenders this year and that would have been a lot to give up for a 28 year old speed receiver with character issues.

[slimjasi]

The Dolphins gave up a LOT for one WR (including giving him a massive contract), but he's a game-changer. 

And at the end of the day, the Jets still need to add another impact WR to their roster. Hill was a chance to do that. 

Douglas has a LOT of pressure on him to hit it big in this upcoming draft. A LOT. 

[Untouchable]

LOL

We came within a c***s hair of providing our young QB with the most explosive offensive weapon in the league.

This sucks, no matter how much you want to tell yourself otherwise.

[BurntDice]

I would have LOVED to get Tyreek. Sucks it didn’t happen, but this shows that JD is trying to get someone big and won’t mind spending $$. Most of the FA contracts are backloaded. I can see someone else being a target in the near future. Will they be as good as Tyreek? Probably not, but who knows 

[92ShaunEllis92]

9 minutes ago, oatmeal said:

Yea that’s why offers to both hill and chefs were in place and it was up to tyreik to decide

but hey you can believe the fan fiction if choose ?‍♂️

Just because both offers were accepted by Chiefs doesn’t mean much. Were you privy to the negotiations? All you can go on is the history of this incumbent GM’s MO the last 2.5 years. JD WAS NOT going to pay that much for a player with that baggage and demanding that contract on a team that is still A WAYS from competing with the elites in this league - both from a player talent and CS experience perspective IMO. 
 

I believe what I want, as do you. Be miserable about missing on a player, if that’s your position, that would not have produced here in NYC on that contract.

I choose to believe JD drove up that price and you can believe whatever the little blue bird, and it’s omniscient source/writer, chirps at you  ?

[MaybeOneDay]

Just now, oatmeal said:

Yea that’s why offers to both hill and chefs were in place and it was up to tyreik to decide

but hey you can believe the fan fiction if choose ?‍♂️

There's no doubt, the Jets were in.  They had a deal in place with the Chiefs, and they matched the contract offer the Dolphins gave to Hill.  Jets wanted him, no doubt.

Honestly, if he's on this team, I'm happy RIGHT NOW.  Today, we win, it's awesome, yeah.   

However, how many times have the Jets made the big splash for it to only blow up in their face a few years later?  That's what this feels like to me...lots of red flags with this guy.  

Look at this as a crossroads...we were 50/50 to go down one path or the other.  

I think, long term, we are better off going down the path we are on.  It may mean we only win 7/8 this year instead of 9/10, but it also may mean the guys in place this year will be the same ones in place 2...3 years down the road when this team is really ready to compete consistently.  

And hey, you never know how the cap money might be spent...maybe a stud becomes available, someone younger, who complements Moore / Davis / Berrios even better than Hill.  

[New York Mick]

Has a team that’s given up a bunch of picks ever made it to the SB with in the first few years using the player they traded for?

[BurntDice]

2 minutes ago, New York Mick said:

Has team that’s given up a bunch of picks ever made it to the SB with in the first few years using the player they traded for?

Rams but they are an outlier 

[92ShaunEllis92]

6 minutes ago, MaybeOneDay said:

There's no doubt, the Jets were in.  They had a deal in place with the Chiefs, and they matched the contract offer the Dolphins gave to Hill.  Jets wanted him, no doubt.

Honestly, if he's on this team, I'm happy RIGHT NOW.  Today, we win, it's awesome, yeah.   

However, how many times have the Jets made the big splash for it to only blow up in their face a few years later?  That's what this feels like to me...lots of red flags with this guy.  

Look at this as a crossroads...we were 50/50 to go down one path or the other.  

I think, long term, we are better off going down the path we are on.  It may mean we only win 7/8 this year instead of 9/10, but it also may mean the guys in place this year will be the same ones in place 2...3 years down the road when this team is really ready to compete consistently.  

And hey, you never know how the cap money might be spent...maybe a stud becomes available, someone younger, who complements Moore / Davis / Berrios even better than Hill.  

Well said!!  Long-term this move does MORE DAMAGE than good and Miami will realize that soon enough. I can admit when I’m wrong, and will gladly do so if it were to occur. 
 

But I honestly feel the Jets could do better than T. HILL at that price -too much in salary & picks - and I also BELieve that Elijah Moore will develop to be a similar comparison of a WR than Hill.

[kevinc855]

NO!! This is bad! Getting tyreek hill woulda instantly changed This offense and Zach 

and for what? The 35 and 38 and a 4th is what’s being reported. That’s chump change.

Stop justifying it. Getting tyreek woulda been amazing for This team 

but whatever gets you through the night i guess 

[kevinc855]

4 minutes ago, New York Mick said:

Has team that’s given up a bunch of picks ever made it to the SB with in the first few years using the player they traded for?

The Rams say hello 

[MaybeOneDay]

6 minutes ago, OtherwiseHappyinLife said:

Agree with a lot except for it will be a few years before the Jets can be a serious contender.  Will that be year 7 for JD?   We have to expect more!
 

Being a contender will depend on the development of Wilson, Moore, the play of the offensive line and if JD can nail this year’s draft.  Things can turn around quickly in the NFL if you pick the right players and can develop a franchise QB.  At this point, JD gets a D for his first draft and a cautiously optimistic B+ for last year’s which can turn into an A+ if Wilson develops into that franchise QB and Moore & AVT turn into studs.  I’m very pleased with his approach to free agency (injuries aside), his trades, salary cap management and the go forward flexibility to make bold moves.
 

In any event, very good list and agree with your overall sentiment that the Jets are not contenders this year and that would have been a lot to give up for a 28 year old speed receiver with character issues.

I think we are on the same page...

 

To clarify, when I say contender, I'm talking about challenging for the Super Bowl.

I fully expect this team to be competitive in most games starting this year, winning their share (right now, I'll say somewhere in the range of 7-9 wins).  

But look around the AFC...the competition for playoff spots is going to be fierce.  If the Jets are even in the hunt come December, I'll take that.  

If Zach develops as we all expect, I see no reason this team can't be a playoff team and compete for the Super Bowl in 2023.  That's about where the time line is in my head.  Full faith in JD and Saleh to lead us there.

[68JET11]

I don't believe JD did this to drive up any price on the Dolphins... If that were the case, he wouldn't have made a deal that was accepted by the Chiefs... He made the deal he was comfortable with and in the end it didn't work out. Hill chose to go home.

[Beerfish]

[Integrity28]

Sometimes the hottest chicks, are the ones you don’t bang. @T0mShane

[New York Mick]

9 minutes ago, BurntDice said:

Rams but they are an outlier 

 

7 minutes ago, kevinc855 said:

The Rams say hello 

So one team out of a bunch and they traded for a QB. I’m trying to rain in the Dolphin fans parade so I need more ammo lol

[artemusclyde]

3 minutes ago, kevinc855 said:

NO!! This is bad! Getting tyreek hill woulda instantly changed This offense and Zach 

and for what? The 35 and 38 and a 4th is what’s being reported. That’s chump change.

Stop justifying it. Getting tyreek woulda been amazing for This team 

but whatever gets you through the night i guess 

35 and 38 are not chump change. Elijah Moore was drafted with the 34th pick for all you mouth breathers out there. This team sucks right now, and Tyreek Hill is a 28-year-old receiver whose game relies on speed. Our defense was ranked last in the league by DVOA. Trading away assets right now on older players to try and compete with the monsters in the AFC is not a recipe for success. This team needs to draft well and slowly rebuild while Wilson, hopefully gets more experienced and grows at the QB position.

[choon328]

32 minutes ago, MaybeOneDay said:

I wanted Tyreek Hill as much as anyone....that was some exciting hour or so...but, even during the "negotiations", I had some lingering questions in my mind:

1) Ty wants to get PAID (obviously).  Sometimes, these guys, once they get that huge pay day, just don't play to the same intensity.  I think the Chiefs had something special with Mahomes / Hill / Kelce.  Given Hill's off the field proclivities (more on that in a moment), I can certainly see a scenario where Hill is not as intense or as focused outside of that Chiefs structure.   How's Hill going to perform down in Miami when the 6-6 Fins have a big game up in Buffalo?  Buyer beware, I think...

2) Hill's had his off the field issues.  Never know when these are going to pop back up.  

3) That was an awful lot of Draft Capital to give up for this guy

4) That was an awful lot of money / cap space guaranteed 

5) I don't know if I'm seeing things through Jets-colored glasses, but Elijah Moore sure looked special to me last year.  There were moments where he looked unstoppable.  Sure would have been nice to have a "big dog" in Hill, but to be honest, not sure him and Moore would be the best complements to each other.  I think Moore can flourish and become one of the best WR's in the NFL...not sure how having a big time # 1 WR  stunts that development.  I have a feeling by November we all may be feeling a lot better about not having Hill on this team.

6) Let's face it, look around the AFC right now, the competition is just fierce.  Even with Ty Hill and even if Zach Wilson turns into Brett Favre, I'm not sure that's enough to get this team anywhere close to the Super Bowl this year.  It's going to be a grind, and realistically, even if everything goes well, it's going to be a few years until this team is seriously ready to compete at that upper echelon level.  Hill is 28...by the time this team is seriously a contender, he's probably on the downside of his career.

7) Draft capital and cap space....we still got them in spades.  Let's see what Joe D comes up with.  In a vacuum, I prefer Garrett Wilson, but a Drake London at 10 makes a ton of sense.  First, he'd be a great complement to Moore and Davis.  And the kid is only 20 years old, will be 21 when training camp starts.  

Sometimes, the best trades are the ones you Fail to make...I just have a sneaky suspicion the Jets dodged a bullet here, and we are going to look back  in a few years to see that this was a blessing in disguise.  

So the Jets should just pack it in bc other teams are better right now? Wtf kind of thought process is this. 

Draft capital and cap space. Both way way overrated. The only way to be successful in this league is to have a premier QB. The way to develop a premier QB is to put enough talent around him to support him till he's able to lift the players around him. 

What good is cap space if your GM won't bring in premium players? It isn't any good

[MaybeOneDay]

1 minute ago, Integrity28 said:

Sometimes the hottest chicks, are the ones you don’t bang. @T0mShane

And sometimes the hottest chicks are the ones with VD...especially those hot crazy chicks who have a history of violent outbursts...the ones with the troubled pasts.

[choon328]

1 minute ago, artemusclyde said:

35 and 38 are not chump change. Elijah Moore was drafted with the 34th pick for all you mouth breathers out there. This team sucks right now, and Tyreek Hill is a 28-year-old receiver whose game relies on speed. Our defense was ranked last in the league by DVOA. Trading away assets right now on older players to try and compete with the monsters in the AFC is not a recipe for success. This team needs to draft well and slowly rebuild while Wilson, hopefully gets more experienced and grows at the QB position.

Good luck with him developing surrounded by JAGs at WR plus 1 2nd year player with upside. 

[GangGreen Machine]

11 minutes ago, kevinc855 said:

NO!! This is bad! Getting tyreek hill woulda instantly changed This offense and Zach 

and for what? The 35 and 38 and a 4th is what’s being reported. That’s chump change.

Stop justifying it. Getting tyreek woulda been amazing for This team 

but whatever gets you through the night i guess 

Stop defending a man who puts his pregnant GF in the hospital and beats the crap out of his toddler.   

 

EDIT: Allegedly 

[Snell41]

Here we go again with the “top players get paid a lot of money” bullsh*t excuse to not want one. Take a look at our roster. With the exception of Revis for a couple years we haven’t had a top player in decades. Yes let’s continue not having top players for fear it might make us a good team and they get paid. Jesus man some of this fan base deserves the sh*tiness this team has bestowed upon them, it’s like it’s exactly what they want! Hooray everyone, our sh*tty team is cheap!!!


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[MaybeOneDay]

Hell, if we want a play maker who is a bit older and we don't mind a checkered past - go out and sign OBJ.

Don't even have to give up draft capital for him.