Blessing in Disguise - Sometimes, the best Trades are the ones you Don't Make

[nyjets1969]

Your right the guy isn't worth 30 million a year. Tua isn't Mahomes not even close let's see what his numbers are without mahomes. The guy is on the wrong side of 25 28 to be exact plus draft capital to obtain him is crazy Jets are so bent on getting #1 WR they are sitting at 4 grab Drake London or Garret Wilson they have their pick at 1/3 of Hill contract plus still have all their draft picks if they feel they have their guy in this draft then screw the naysayers that it's a reach use the #4 and get him.

[Bronx]

Read it. 

There is relevance to this discussion. 

 

 

 

[Fantasy Island]

1 hour ago, 92ShaunEllis92 said:

Hill is NOT the missing key piece for this team to be successful: we have his younger and less-problematic comp in E. Moore. 
 

The KEY missing piece? A WR taller than 6’3” who can catch: Drake London

The real key missing piece is a g****** QB who can throw short and long accurate passes quickly.  

 

[maury77]

Feel free to comfort yourself with draft picks that were kept (despite Douglas's mediocre at best draft record), salary cap saved (which Douglas didn't spend on any big names this year anyway and the Jets don't have any young talent that you are dying to break the bank on an extension over the next 2 years), at the end of the day, Jets were outbid by a division rival and will now have to cover Hill and Waddle 2x a year with DJ Reed and Bryce Hall (unless Gardner is picked at 4 or 10). 

I'm trying to be optimistic: Hill would have significantly improved the team, however, now the team is more likely to be bad, which makes it more likely Douglas gets fired after next year. 

[heymangold]

I am fine with not getting hill but at some point the “draft capital” and “better for the long run” arguments don’t hold weight.  It’s been the long run - this team hasn’t made the playoffs in 11 years. 

[More Cowbell]

2 hours ago, MaybeOneDay said:

I wanted Tyreek Hill as much as anyone....that was some exciting hour or so...but, even during the "negotiations", I had some lingering questions in my mind:

1) Ty wants to get PAID (obviously).  Sometimes, these guys, once they get that huge pay day, just don't play to the same intensity.  I think the Chiefs had something special with Mahomes / Hill / Kelce.  Given Hill's off the field proclivities (more on that in a moment), I can certainly see a scenario where Hill is not as intense or as focused outside of that Chiefs structure.   How's Hill going to perform down in Miami when the 6-6 Fins have a big game up in Buffalo?  Buyer beware, I think...

2) Hill's had his off the field issues.  Never know when these are going to pop back up.  

3) That was an awful lot of Draft Capital to give up for this guy

4) That was an awful lot of money / cap space guaranteed 

5) I don't know if I'm seeing things through Jets-colored glasses, but Elijah Moore sure looked special to me last year.  There were moments where he looked unstoppable.  Sure would have been nice to have a "big dog" in Hill, but to be honest, not sure him and Moore would be the best complements to each other.  I think Moore can flourish and become one of the best WR's in the NFL...not sure how having a big time # 1 WR  stunts that development.  I have a feeling by November we all may be feeling a lot better about not having Hill on this team.

6) Let's face it, look around the AFC right now, the competition is just fierce.  Even with Ty Hill and even if Zach Wilson turns into Brett Favre, I'm not sure that's enough to get this team anywhere close to the Super Bowl this year.  It's going to be a grind, and realistically, even if everything goes well, it's going to be a few years until this team is seriously ready to compete at that upper echelon level.  Hill is 28...by the time this team is seriously a contender, he's probably on the downside of his career.

7) Draft capital and cap space....we still got them in spades.  Let's see what Joe D comes up with.  In a vacuum, I prefer Garrett Wilson, but a Drake London at 10 makes a ton of sense.  First, he'd be a great complement to Moore and Davis.  And the kid is only 20 years old, will be 21 when training camp starts.  

Sometimes, the best trades are the ones you Fail to make...I just have a sneaky suspicion the Jets dodged a bullet here, and we are going to look back  in a few years to see that this was a blessing in disguise.  

I wish you could see my eyes rolling right now. Hill is a special talent. Just get the ball in his hands and watch him explode upfield. Hill and Waddle on the same team sounds more like a track meet than a football game. We play this team twice a season. Saleh better start to think about how he is going to control that much speed and explosion.  

[hawk]

2 hours ago, MaybeOneDay said:

I wanted Tyreek Hill as much as anyone....that was some exciting hour or so...but, even during the "negotiations", I had some lingering questions in my mind:

1) Ty wants to get PAID (obviously).  Sometimes, these guys, once they get that huge pay day, just don't play to the same intensity.  I think the Chiefs had something special with Mahomes / Hill / Kelce.  Given Hill's off the field proclivities (more on that in a moment), I can certainly see a scenario where Hill is not as intense or as focused outside of that Chiefs structure.   How's Hill going to perform down in Miami when the 6-6 Fins have a big game up in Buffalo?  Buyer beware, I think...

2) Hill's had his off the field issues.  Never know when these are going to pop back up.  

3) That was an awful lot of Draft Capital to give up for this guy

4) That was an awful lot of money / cap space guaranteed 

5) I don't know if I'm seeing things through Jets-colored glasses, but Elijah Moore sure looked special to me last year.  There were moments where he looked unstoppable.  Sure would have been nice to have a "big dog" in Hill, but to be honest, not sure him and Moore would be the best complements to each other.  I think Moore can flourish and become one of the best WR's in the NFL...not sure how having a big time # 1 WR  stunts that development.  I have a feeling by November we all may be feeling a lot better about not having Hill on this team.

6) Let's face it, look around the AFC right now, the competition is just fierce.  Even with Ty Hill and even if Zach Wilson turns into Brett Favre, I'm not sure that's enough to get this team anywhere close to the Super Bowl this year.  It's going to be a grind, and realistically, even if everything goes well, it's going to be a few years until this team is seriously ready to compete at that upper echelon level.  Hill is 28...by the time this team is seriously a contender, he's probably on the downside of his career.

7) Draft capital and cap space....we still got them in spades.  Let's see what Joe D comes up with.  In a vacuum, I prefer Garrett Wilson, but a Drake London at 10 makes a ton of sense.  First, he'd be a great complement to Moore and Davis.  And the kid is only 20 years old, will be 21 when training camp starts.  

Sometimes, the best trades are the ones you Fail to make...I just have a sneaky suspicion the Jets dodged a bullet here, and we are going to look back  in a few years to see that this was a blessing in disguise.  

[More Cowbell]

2 hours ago, 92ShaunEllis92 said:

I strongly believe, as someone mentioned in other thread:

JD drove up the price and NEVER would have paid that much. He just KILLED the fins cap and drafts for the foreseeable future; only exacerbated if the fins don’t produce and win with all that FA $$$ spent. Rosenhuas, like ALL OTHER PLAYER AGENTS used the Jets for more $$$. JD obliged knowing full well Hill was always going to choose Miami; like Antonio Winfield, Anthony Barr, Favre, etc: players USE THE JETS to get what they want from another team!
 

JD was Machiavelli’s The Prince in driving up the price 

One thing wrong with this theory. The Chiefs actually accepted the Jets trade as well as The Fins and told Hill to pick a team. If he had picked us and JD didn't pay him, I think this place would have been on fire. 

[Irish Jet]

Cult.

[More Cowbell]

2 hours ago, MaybeOneDay said:

There's no doubt, the Jets were in.  They had a deal in place with the Chiefs, and they matched the contract offer the Dolphins gave to Hill.  Jets wanted him, no doubt.

Honestly, if he's on this team, I'm happy RIGHT NOW.  Today, we win, it's awesome, yeah.   

However, how many times have the Jets made the big splash for it to only blow up in their face a few years later?  That's what this feels like to me...lots of red flags with this guy.  

Look at this as a crossroads...we were 50/50 to go down one path or the other.  

I think, long term, we are better off going down the path we are on.  It may mean we only win 7/8 this year instead of 9/10, but it also may mean the guys in place this year will be the same ones in place 2...3 years down the road when this team is really ready to compete consistently.  

And hey, you never know how the cap money might be spent...maybe a stud becomes available, someone younger, who complements Moore / Davis / Berrios even better than Hill.  

There is only one Tyreek Hill. I can't  think of a single player that can do what he does. Everyone talks about the guy that when he gets the ball he can score from anywhere. That is exactly what Hill has been in KC. If he beats his man and gets the ball, that guy is taking it to the house. Once he is in the open, nobody can catch this guy. Say what you want about Moore, Hill is on another level. 

[Barton]

The only issue I have with Hill is he comes off like a nut job/not a good guy. This move might blow up in the dolphins face.

Aside from that, spare me the oh he's 28 yrs old and might lose a step soon stuff.

We need great players who can make big plays. Hill is 1 of those types of guys. Cant think of another WR in the NFL as sketchy as him though.  

[RevisIsland610]

This is going to be a disaster for Miami. Thats a alot of draft capital and money. Tua is not Mahomes. You watch. Total disaster. 

[MaybeOneDay]

1 minute ago, More Cowbell said:

One thing wrong with this theory. The Chiefs actually accepted the Jets trade as well as The Fins and told Hill to pick a team. If he had picked us and JD didn't pay him, I think this place would have been on fire. 

Well...sort of.

A HUGE part...and in reality, probably the only part that matters in his mind...of Hill "picking a team" was the contract.  First, neither Miami nor the Jets were making the deal without a contract extension.  No way you give up that sort of draft capital for a 1 year rental...and the whole reason the Chiefs were getting rid of him in the first place is due to a contact impasse.  So, it was all about the contract.

There were 2 parts of this: 

1) compensation in a trade for the Chiefs.  It's been widely reported that there were similar deals in place with both the Jets and the Fins.

2) Hill's contract.  Hill didn't have a "no trade clause", but realistically, neither team was going to give up that trade package without Hill agreeing to a contract extension....at numbers the Chiefs were simply not willing or able to give him.  Which, to me, that's a red flag right there.  No one knows this guy better than KC, and they were simply willing to get rid of him rather than give him such huge guaranteed money.  

 

I believe I read that the Jets contract offer matched that of Miami's (could be wrong, I'm not 100% sure).  

Hill simply chose Miami.

That's fine, and I really think the Jets dodged a bullet here, given all the red flags, plus the picks, plus the cap space, plus his age....we'll see how it plays out.

[Cyberjet]

2 hours ago, MaybeOneDay said:

There's no doubt, the Jets were in.  They had a deal in place with the Chiefs, and they matched the contract offer the Dolphins gave to Hill.  Jets wanted him, no doubt.

Honestly, if he's on this team, I'm happy RIGHT NOW.  Today, we win, it's awesome, yeah.   

However, how many times have the Jets made the big splash for it to only blow up in their face a few years later?  That's what this feels like to me...lots of red flags with this guy.  

Look at this as a crossroads...we were 50/50 to go down one path or the other.  

I think, long term, we are better off going down the path we are on.  It may mean we only win 7/8 this year instead of 9/10, but it also may mean the guys in place this year will be the same ones in place 2...3 years down the road when this team is really ready to compete consistently.  

And hey, you never know how the cap money might be spent...maybe a stud becomes available, someone younger, who complements Moore / Davis / Berrios even better than Hill.  

Were the Jets willing to give Hill the same guaranteed $$$ and contract extension or did he want more because of the taxes? I have a sneaking suspicion JD gave KC what they wanted  and Miami was listening but the Jets were never going to meet Hill’s demands
 

[MaybeOneDay]

3 minutes ago, Cyberjet said:

Were the Jets willing to give him the same guaranteed $$$ and contract extension or did he want more because of the taxes. I have a sneaking suspicion he gave KC what they wanted to hear and Miami was listening but the Jets were not going to meet Hill’s demands. 
 

That what I'm thinking...at some point, JD probably knew he was leaning towards Miami, and had a decision to make....do I go way above my max number to try to entice him here, or let him go to Miami?  He made his decision...and personally, I think it was the right choice.  

[bgivs21]

I'm all for this trade with DK don't love the trade MIA made for Hill tho. 

Also it's like a lot of Jets fans forgot about our issue with an aging star in Santonio Holmes. I see a lot of similarities between the 2 now that he's in MIA. 

[Esquire]

Hill is a great player but I'm okay with missing out on him.  He would certainly be worth the picks offered but paying him 30MM per year is a team killing number for a wide receiver.     

Here's to hoping Douglas turns our first five picks into gold.  

[More Cowbell]

17 minutes ago, MaybeOneDay said:

Well...sort of.

A HUGE part...and in reality, probably the only part that matters in his mind...of Hill "picking a team" was the contract.  First, neither Miami nor the Jets were making the deal without a contract extension.  No way you give up that sort of draft capital for a 1 year rental...and the whole reason the Chiefs were getting rid of him in the first place is due to a contact impasse.  So, it was all about the contract.

There were 2 parts of this: 

1) compensation in a trade for the Chiefs.  It's been widely reported that there were similar deals in place with both the Jets and the Fins.

2) Hill's contract.  Hill didn't have a "no trade clause", but realistically, neither team was going to give up that trade package without Hill agreeing to a contract extension....at numbers the Chiefs were simply not willing or able to give him.  Which, to me, that's a red flag right there.  No one knows this guy better than KC, and they were simply willing to get rid of him rather than give him such huge guaranteed money.  

 

I believe I read that the Jets contract offer matched that of Miami's (could be wrong, I'm not 100% sure).  

Hill simply chose Miami.

That's fine, and I really think the Jets dodged a bullet here, given all the red flags, plus the picks, plus the cap space, plus his age....we'll see how it plays out.

Please stop saying we dodged a bullet. Hill is still inbthe prime of his career. There is no player in the league as explosive as he is. The guy is a freaking nightmare. He is a guy that you have to gameplan for. This team never had an offensive player like this. 

[Jets Things]

JD did what he could do and Hill chose Miami. End of story. I would have found it difficult to root for this POS. 

[Be_a_Jet]

Wrong 

[MaybeOneDay]

1 minute ago, More Cowbell said:

Please stop saying we dodged a bullet. Hill is still inbthe prime of his career. There is no player in the league as explosive as he is. The guy is a freaking nightmare. He is a guy that you have to gameplan for. This team never had an offensive player like this. 

Fair points....but I've got 2 questions for you:

 

1) How much longer will Hill be in the Prime of his Career?

2) With Hill on this Roster, are the Jets a playoff team this year?  

 

Look, I agree, it sucks that we came this close, and missed out.  I also agree he's a game changer...a nightmare.  Don't disagree at all.  

However, there are some red flags, no?  

Also, the offseason isn't over, we don't know what the roster will look like yet come September.

[Smashmouth]

3 hours ago, BigRy56 said:

Hard to spin this one in a positive light. The Jets would have been set up for extreme success on offense, with 0 holes and an elite weapon in Hill. It would’ve allowed JD to round the defense out in the draft and send the Jets into training camp looking like a potential playoff team on paper, or at least a team that would give us the clearest picture of who Zach Wilson could be.

Perhaps JD accomplishes the WR splash from another angle, but it likely won’t be for a player of Hill’s caliber. Now we can just hope Tyreek cashes in and checks out in Miami - it is possible 

No matter what we have it still would have all come down to Zach ...So in reality we had nothing until Zach Proved he can play the position at an NFL level

[Long Island Leprechaun]

3 hours ago, MaybeOneDay said:

And sometimes the hottest chicks are the ones with VD...especially those hot crazy chicks who have a history of violent outbursts...the ones with the troubled pasts.

The ones from Miami.

[David Harris]

I’m just “liking” every post on both sides because I understand all the sentiments. But yeah I can take no morale high ground, I wanted Hill bad.

[Jet25]

 

Many Jet fans after seeing the notification that Tyreek Hill was traded to the Dolphins on their phones

[Barry McCockinner]

Jets fans love cap space and draft capital.

Wake me up when that cap space turns into wins.

[92ShaunEllis92]

JETS

NFL

Thoughts on the Biggest Trade That Wasn't:

1. It would've been a good trade for the Jets, but what seems apparent, after checking in with sources, is they were always the underdog for Tyreek Hill. Get the feeling that Hill used the Jets for leverage.

2. Reinforces importance of the draft. If you can't import a star, draft and develop. No margin for error, though. 3. Shows how badly Joe Douglas wants a vet WR. Some good ones in the draft, but not this caliber. Could be a vexing problem.

 

 

Rich Cimini, ESPN Staff Writer

[maury77]

2 hours ago, heymangold said:

I am fine with not getting hill but at some point the “draft capital” and “better for the long run” arguments don’t hold weight.  It’s been the long run - this team hasn’t made the playoffs in 11 years. 

Amen bro

[92ShaunEllis92]

Jets were never in it. They were used for leverage to squeeze more out of the fins.
 

Genius JD Genius!!!! Lol

[maury77]

3 hours ago, Snell41 said:

Here we go again with the “top players get paid a lot of money” bullsh*t excuse to not want one. Take a look at our roster. With the exception of Revis for a couple years we haven’t had a top player in decades. Yes let’s continue not having top players for fear it might make us a good team and they get paid. Jesus man some of this fan base deserves the sh*tiness this team has bestowed upon them, it’s like it’s exactly what they want! Hooray everyone, our sh*tty team is cheap!!!


Sent from my iPhone using JetNation.com mobile app

I agree

[92ShaunEllis92]

4 hours ago, 92ShaunEllis92 said:

I strongly believe, as someone mentioned in other thread:

JD drove up the price and NEVER would have paid that much. He just KILLED the fins cap and drafts for the foreseeable future; only exacerbated if the fins don’t produce and win with all that FA $$$ spent. Rosenhuas, like ALL OTHER PLAYER AGENTS used the Jets for more $$$. JD obliged knowing full well Hill was always going to choose Miami; like Antonio Winfield, Anthony Barr, Favre, etc: players USE THE JETS to get what they want from another team!
 

JD was Machiavelli’s The Prince in driving up the price 

 

12 minutes ago, 92ShaunEllis92 said:

JETS

NFL

Thoughts on the Biggest Trade That Wasn't:

1. It would've been a good trade for the Jets, but what seems apparent, after checking in with sources, is they were always the underdog for Tyreek Hill. Get the feeling that Hill used the Jets for leverage.
 

2. Reinforces importance of the draft. If you can't import a star, draft and develop. No margin for error, though. 3. Shows how badly Joe Douglas wants a vet WR. Some good ones in the draft, but not this caliber. Could be a vexing problem.

 

 

Rich Cimini, ESPN Staff Writer

Thanks for covering my back Diçk.

Jets were used like a back-alley slappa’ in Chelsea to drive up the price for Miami to get its trick and costing them their future!!! Lol?
 

JD YOU ABSOLUTE FÜÇKĪNG GENIUS!!!

[Jetfuel66]

4 hours ago, MaybeOneDay said:

I wanted Tyreek Hill as much as anyone....that was some exciting hour or so...but, even during the "negotiations", I had some lingering questions in my mind:

1) Ty wants to get PAID (obviously).  Sometimes, these guys, once they get that huge pay day, just don't play to the same intensity.  I think the Chiefs had something special with Mahomes / Hill / Kelce.  Given Hill's off the field proclivities (more on that in a moment), I can certainly see a scenario where Hill is not as intense or as focused outside of that Chiefs structure.   How's Hill going to perform down in Miami when the 6-6 Fins have a big game up in Buffalo?  Buyer beware, I think...

2) Hill's had his off the field issues.  Never know when these are going to pop back up.  

3) That was an awful lot of Draft Capital to give up for this guy

4) That was an awful lot of money / cap space guaranteed 

5) I don't know if I'm seeing things through Jets-colored glasses, but Elijah Moore sure looked special to me last year.  There were moments where he looked unstoppable.  Sure would have been nice to have a "big dog" in Hill, but to be honest, not sure him and Moore would be the best complements to each other.  I think Moore can flourish and become one of the best WR's in the NFL...not sure how having a big time # 1 WR  stunts that development.  I have a feeling by November we all may be feeling a lot better about not having Hill on this team.

6) Let's face it, look around the AFC right now, the competition is just fierce.  Even with Ty Hill and even if Zach Wilson turns into Brett Favre, I'm not sure that's enough to get this team anywhere close to the Super Bowl this year.  It's going to be a grind, and realistically, even if everything goes well, it's going to be a few years until this team is seriously ready to compete at that upper echelon level.  Hill is 28...by the time this team is seriously a contender, he's probably on the downside of his career.

7) Draft capital and cap space....we still got them in spades.  Let's see what Joe D comes up with.  In a vacuum, I prefer Garrett Wilson, but a Drake London at 10 makes a ton of sense.  First, he'd be a great complement to Moore and Davis.  And the kid is only 20 years old, will be 21 when training camp starts.  

Sometimes, the best trades are the ones you Fail to make...I just have a sneaky suspicion the Jets dodged a bullet here, and we are going to look back  in a few years to see that this was a blessing in disguise.  

Really well said my friend. Great points. I love the path this team is on.

[Hex]

27 minutes ago, 92ShaunEllis92 said:

Jets were never in it. They were used for leverage to squeeze more out of the fins.
 

Genius JD Genius!!!! Lol

Watch out, you're starting to sound like @Joe W. Namath

[92ShaunEllis92]

Just now, Hex said:

Watch out, you're starting to sound like @Joe W. Namath

I opted to laugh it off rather than Negrep you for the insult. ?

[Hex]

Honestly the straight answer is that we won't really know until a year or two in the future how this actually turns out. We can argue with each other and call each other names and act like toddlers but it doesn't mean crap. Simple as that