Blessing in Disguise - Sometimes, the best Trades are the ones you Don't Make

[artemusclyde]

3 hours ago, maury77 said:

Feel free to comfort yourself with draft picks that were kept (despite Douglas's mediocre at best draft record), salary cap saved (which Douglas didn't spend on any big names this year anyway and the Jets don't have any young talent that you are dying to break the bank on an extension over the next 2 years), at the end of the day, Jets were outbid by a division rival and will now have to cover Hill and Waddle 2x a year with DJ Reed and Bryce Hall (unless Gardner is picked at 4 or 10). 

I'm trying to be optimistic: Hill would have significantly improved the team, however, now the team is more likely to be bad, which makes it more likely Douglas gets fired after next year. 

If Douglas is at bad at drafting as you say he is, trading for Tyreek wouldn't have mattered and this team would still be rebuilding except we'd have a 30-year-old Tyreek on a huge ass contract.  If Douglas is the genius GM people to make him out to be, I want him making those picks and building a contender with them. If he sucks at drafting, I still want him making those picks so we can fire his ass sooner instead of doing what Macc did and going out and buying overpriced veterans to get a decent season.

Also, I don't care about covering Hill and Waddle because Tua is their guy. As long as he's the qb for the Dolphins, he'll hold them back like Jimmy G did the 49ers (and Tua isn't even as good as Jimmy G is right now). Weird you focus on the Dolphins when they haven't won sh*t lately and are still in the cellar with us while the Bills are running sh*t right now. Browns, Chiefs, Broncos, Chargers, Ravens, Bengals, Bills all have elite franchise qbs, with the Colts, and Raiders having really good ones. Titans also got a really good team along with an okay qb.  AFC is mad competitive, the last thing I'm worried about are what the Dolphins are doing with Tua.

[More Cowbell]

1 hour ago, MaybeOneDay said:

Fair points....but I've got 2 questions for you:

 

1) How much longer will Hill be in the Prime of his Career?

2) With Hill on this Roster, are the Jets a playoff team this year?  

 

Look, I agree, it sucks that we came this close, and missed out.  I also agree he's a game changer...a nightmare.  Don't disagree at all.  

However, there are some red flags, no?  

Also, the offseason isn't over, we don't know what the roster will look like yet come September.

To answer, I would say at least 3ore years of quality play from him.

Are we a playoff team? Hill will add 1100 and 8 to 10 TD's. He is also goi g to open the middle of the field for Uzomah and Conklin. Hill is also a guy that can play on the outside or in the slot and isn't  afraid to go over theiddle himself. The guy os a freaking swiss army knife at WR. The answer is if we aren't,  we are a Hell of a lot closer. He probably ads 3 or 4 wins on his own. 

[Sonny Werblin]

I’m curious how badly miami’s offensive minded HC wanted Hill. He comes from a shanahan system i.e a run heavy offense. Did he really want to forego that much in draft assets and cap space to add Hill to a receiving corps that already included Waddle, Gisecki and Parker? sh*t Jimmy G throws the ball around 25 times per game and 10 of those or more are to RBs. Frankly, i think this is another instance of the Fins front office not coordinating with its coaching staff.

[Sonny Werblin]

3 minutes ago, More Cowbell said:

To answer, I would say at least 3ore years of quality play from him.

Are we a playoff team? Hill will add 1100 and 8 to 10 TD's. He is also goi g to open the middle of the field for Uzomah and Conklin. Hill is also a guy that can play on the outside or in the slot and isn't  afraid to go over theiddle himself. The guy os a freaking swiss army knife at WR. The answer is if we aren't,  we are a Hell of a lot closer. He probably ads 3 or 4 wins on his own. 

Personally, I’ll wait to see what Hill looks like without an MVP at QB and Andy Reid drawing up the playbook.

[92ShaunEllis92]

18 minutes ago, More Cowbell said:

To answer, I would say at least 3ore years of quality play from him.

Are we a playoff team? Hill will add 1100 and 8 to 10 TD's. He is also goi g to open the middle of the field for Uzomah and Conklin. Hill is also a guy that can play on the outside or in the slot and isn't  afraid to go over theiddle himself. The guy os a freaking swiss army knife at WR. The answer is if we aren't,  we are a Hell of a lot closer. He probably ads 3 or 4 wins on his own. 

You SINCERELY BELIEVE THIS ^^^?

Seems like More Cow$hit than CowBell. Lol ?

[Hex]

The big thing that people miss is that it's extremely difficult for a bad team to try and sign high-profile players. Sure, they do it occasionally, but most of the time elite players won't sign with teams that haven't won or just don't have the pieces to immediately play well. You can argue all you want about the Rams using FA to win, but (1) They're an outlier, and (2) They went to the SB in 2018 and haven't had a losing record with McVay as HC. They drafted talent like Aaron Donald and Cooper Kupp, and while sure they signed elite players, they were already a proven team, only a few pieces away from winning it all. The Bengals drafted their way into the SB, with some outside FA like Hendrickson. All of the huge FA signings have gone to teams that had winning records, with exception to the Broncos, who are a QB away from serious contenders.

So don't go complaining about JD not offering enough, because to get a player who wants to win onto a team like the Jets, you need to pay him way more than he's worth. Hill wasn't going to sign here for $30 mil. It's that simple. So while maybe in the future we can look back and say "Hey, we should have thrown everything at him" He's still a question mark off the field and we don't know what he's like without a generational QB throwing to him and a HOF coach.

[Dax89]

Real question, how did the "I WANT ELITE PLAYERS" in the forum feel about Mac unloading the truck on an elite linebacker in Mosley?  

[Lot K Tailgaters]

I’m ok with the trade not happening.  The Dolphins gave up a LOT.  He’s also being paid a LOT.  He is a great player but this team still has holes to fill.  
 

I think Elijah Moore can be special but he needs to stay healthy.  

[Gramsci]

5 hours ago, kevinc855 said:

Lol right? Jet fans are like like abused girlfriends who never knew anything else 

The irony of mentioning abused girlfriends is palpable. 

[Smashmouth]

3 hours ago, bgivs21 said:

I'm all for this trade with DK don't love the trade MIA made for Hill tho. 

Also it's like a lot of Jets fans forgot about our issue with an aging star in Santonio Holmes. I see a lot of similarities between the 2 now that he's in MIA. 

Santonio was a star for exactly 10 seconds

[T0mShane]

9 hours ago, 92ShaunEllis92 said:

I strongly believe, as someone mentioned in other thread:

JD drove up the price and NEVER would have paid that much. He just KILLED the fins cap and drafts for the foreseeable future; only exacerbated if the fins don’t produce and win with all that FA $$$ spent. Rosenhuas, like ALL OTHER PLAYER AGENTS used the Jets for more $$$. JD obliged knowing full well Hill was always going to choose Miami; like Antonio Winfield, Anthony Barr, Favre, etc: players USE THE JETS to get what they want from another team!
 

JD was Machiavelli’s The Prince in driving up the price 

<Tyreke Hill, in a September matchup against the Jets, catches 9 passes for 276 yards and three TDs against our defense, led by fourth overall pick Kyle Hamilton>

Joe Douglas: “Checkmate, mother****ers”

[GreenReaper]

10 hours ago, 92ShaunEllis92 said:

Hill is NOT the missing key piece for this team to be successful: we have his younger and less-problematic comp in E. Moore. 
 

The KEY missing piece? A WR taller than 6’3” who can catch: Drake London

He's my 1st choice. 

A high volume wideout that can dominate DBs.  A tall...strong...Boss type receiver that plays the game with passion.  Both Daniel Jeremiah and Mel Kiper have London as a 1st round pick for the NYJ.  It's obvious they're signaling Jets love the player.   London is an all gas...no brakes type...a warrior...the Jets crave at the #1 receiver position. 

Go get him JD...por favor. 

[heymangold]

8 hours ago, 92ShaunEllis92 said:

Jets were never in it. They were used for leverage to squeeze more out of the fins.
 

Genius JD Genius!!!! Lol

in reality its not true - if the chiefs didn't want to give Hill the choice, i'd be they would have taken the Jets offer as it held more weight pick wise.  comes down to preference to Hill and he wanted to goto Miami.

[heymangold]

Mims and London are the EXACT same player.

 

[More Cowbell]

8 hours ago, Sonny Werblin said:

Personally, I’ll wait to see what Hill looks like without an MVP at QB and Andy Reid drawing up the playbook.

Please. The talent is unquestionably there

[More Cowbell]

8 hours ago, 92ShaunEllis92 said:

You SINCERELY BELIEVE THIS ^^^?

Seems like More Cow$hit than CowBell. Lol ?

The only thing that stops it from happening is Wilson absolutely  sucks. Even Mike White makes this happen

 

[TuscanyTile2]

1 hour ago, heymangold said:

Mims and London are the EXACT same player.

 

I don't think it works that way.  You can't just reduce players down to draft grades.

[J_Smith]

1 hour ago, heymangold said:

Mims and London are the EXACT same player.

 

Tell me you don’t watch CFB, without telling me you don’t watch CFB

[heymangold]

6 minutes ago, TuscanyTile2 said:

I don't think it works that way.  You can't just reduce players down to draft grades.

their measurables are almost identical.

4 minutes ago, J_Smith said:

Tell me you don’t watch CFB, without telling me you don’t watch CFB

ok.  mims actually had a far more productive college career as well.

[TuscanyTile2]

Just now, heymangold said:

their measurables are almost identical.

ok.  mims actually had a far more productive college career as well.

You can probably find other WRs with basically the same measurables who have much better careers.

[IndianaJet]

The only positive spin I can put on this is that 1) JD went for it, something we didn't think he would do (can't control Hill's desire to play in his hometown) and 2) even if we got him, he doesn't put us over the top. 

 

Hopefully we get to the point where one guy will put us over the top, but we're not close right now.  Maybe we will be at that point in two years and we'll have the cap space and flexibility to land whoever that player is.

[Sonny Werblin]

1 hour ago, More Cowbell said:

Please. The talent is unquestionably there

I’m not saying he doesn’t have talent, I’m saying he probably will not have the same production without his mvp QB and a passing game savant scheming up play design.

[GKnight83]

Ok with Hill going to Miami.  It's not like Mahomes went with him or Allen will be throwing to him.

I mean, be serious, it is Tua.  Tua is most effective when he gets rid of the ball in less than 3 seconds.

Yua might throw for 3,000 yards but I do not think this works out for Miami at all.

Maybe when they replace their QB next year.

[ChewyandtheJets]

I agree with the original thread.  I am happy to see we had the gumption to take a swing.  On the other hand giving up two high seconds and a high third and then having to pay on top of that is something I would really only want to do for a QB.  We need a lot of pieces not just one really fast one.   There’s nothing saying we can’t take the top WR in this years class, pay him an entry level wage and see him catch for over 1000 yards.   Than also have our 3 picks and and another $25 million to spread around.   It is a bit of a bummer that the draw of NY is no longer a draw and actually appears to be a detriment to prospective FAs.  Not sure when that happened but it’s real.  Will be interesting if we ever get good to see if that changes even with the crime, high taxes, lousy weather, and ridiculously high cost of living. 

[JoJoTownsell1]

14 hours ago, Snell41 said:

Here we go again with the “top players get paid a lot of money” bullsh*t excuse to not want one. Take a look at our roster. With the exception of Revis for a couple years we haven’t had a top player in decades. Yes let’s continue not having top players for fear it might make us a good team and they get paid. Jesus man some of this fan base deserves the sh*tiness this team has bestowed upon them, it’s like it’s exactly what they want! Hooray everyone, our sh*tty team is cheap!!!


Sent from my iPhone using JetNation.com mobile app

I think just about everyone here WANTED Hill (outside of the people that had issues with his off the field issues). 

The point is that sometimes you are better off having not made a trade. 
Case in point. The Bills trade for Stefon Diggs. Has Diggs helped the Bills? Absolutely. The Bills couldn't have asked for me from Diggs. However, would the Bills be better off having kept that 1st round pick they traded for Diggs and instead taken Justin Jefferson (the guy the Vikings took with that pick)? Jefferson is not only better. He is younger and with a FAR better contract. 

[oatmeal]

11 hours ago, Jet25 said:

 

Many Jet fans after seeing the notification that Tyreek Hill was traded to the Dolphins on their phones

This ? 

[Bungaman]

4 minutes ago, ChewyandtheJets said:

I agree with the original thread.  I am happy to see we had the gumption to take a swing.  On the other hand giving up two high seconds and a high third and then having to pay on top of that is something I would really only want to do for a QB.  We need a lot of pieces not just one really fast one.   There’s nothing saying we can’t take the top WR in this years class, pay him an entry level wage and see him catch for over 1000 yards.   Than also have our 3 picks and and another $25 million to spread around.   It is a bit of a bummer that the draw of NY is no longer a draw and actually appears to be a detriment to prospective FAs.  Not sure when that happened but it’s real.  Will be interesting if we ever get good to see if that changes even with the crime, high taxes, lousy weather, and ridiculously high cost of living. 

I guess I don't get the "NY is not a draw" schtick. Miami doesn't have high crime? Miami isn't hotter and more humid than Hades for 8 months out of the year? Streets underwater and a couple of tropical storms a year don't count? Taxes? Maybe - I'm no accountant, but I'll bet in property taxes, user fees, sales taxes or some other way FL manages to extract its pound of flesh. 

[oatmeal]

4 minutes ago, Bungaman said:

I guess I don't get the "NY is not a draw" schtick. Miami doesn't have high crime? Miami isn't hotter and more humid than Hades for 8 months out of the year? Streets underwater and a couple of tropical storms a year don't count? Taxes? Maybe - I'm no accountant, but I'll bet in property taxes, user fees, sales taxes or some other way FL manages to extract its pound of flesh. 

Great points tbh I personally never considered this 

[oatmeal]

Fans comparing Moore to Hill………………………………………………………………………………..………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………..………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………..………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………..………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………

Jet fans must own stock in kool-aid, this has to be it… no other explanation for the madness 

[Chrebetfan80]

We are such broken souls as a fan base its ridiculous. 

If you want to say you're not upset because you didn't want him anyway due to off the field issues and who he is as a person.. Thats fine. 

Don't delude yourself that from a pure football standpoint were better off not having a dynamic talent like Hill on the roster.  What he does for the offense would be extremely valuable and makes Zachs job as the QB immensely easier.  Having a guy like tyreek which forces defenses to play a 2 high shell, opens up the middle of the field for the new TE's, the underneath stuff for Moore and Berrios, and also allows Davis to stick to that intermediate area of the field and move around more. Hills dynamic ability also provides the offense with a player that can take the ball to the endzone from any point on the field in 1 play, something this offense has severely lacked for way too long. 

So if you want to say youre happy were not getting the type of person he is on the team, fine, wont argue with that.  Dude is as sketch as they come with a lot of his alleged activity.  But from a pure football standpoint, he would have been a huge piece to add. 

[ChewyandtheJets]

18 minutes ago, Bungaman said:

I guess I don't get the "NY is not a draw" schtick. Miami doesn't have high crime? Miami isn't hotter and more humid than Hades for 8 months out of the year? Streets underwater and a couple of tropical storms a year don't count? Taxes? Maybe - I'm no accountant, but I'll bet in property taxes, user fees, sales taxes or some other way FL manages to extract its pound of flesh. 

I live in both Miami and ny and for a young wealthy athlete Miami is better hands down.  The women, weather, and taxes are tough to beat.   We are going to have to get good and then maybe we can win these bids but for now it seems we lose them all.   Frustrating but nothing to do it is out of anyone’s control. 

[Sonny Werblin]

Color me very surprised that the Jets were IN on Hill when it certainly appears that the guy is a POS human being. 

[derp]

9 minutes ago, Chrebetfan80 said:

We are such broken souls as a fan base its ridiculous. 

If you want to say you're not upset because you didn't want him anyway due to off the field issues and who he is as a person.. Thats fine. 

Don't delude yourself that from a pure football standpoint were better off not having a dynamic talent like Hill on the roster.  What he does for the offense would be extremely valuable and makes Zachs job as the QB immensely easier.  Having a guy like tyreek which forces defenses to play a 2 high shell, opens up the middle of the field for the new TE's, the underneath stuff for Moore and Berrios, and also allows Davis to stick to that intermediate area of the field and move around more. Hills dynamic ability also provides the offense with a player that can take the ball to the endzone from any point on the field in 1 play, something this offense has severely lacked for way too long. 

So if you want to say youre happy were not getting the type of person he is on the team, fine, wont argue with that.  Dude is as sketch as they come with a lot of his alleged activity.  But from a pure football standpoint, he would have been a huge piece to add. 

I am not disappointed the Jets didn’t add someone with his off the field track record and that’s pretty much the only good thing here. That and I’m not sure Tua has the arm to hit him downfield haha.

On the field he would’ve been an outstanding fit for so many reasons. If he was a Curtis Martin type person I would’ve been absolutely crushed by him choosing Miami yesterday.

[Chrebetfan80]

16 minutes ago, derp said:

I am not disappointed the Jets didn’t add someone with his off the field track record and that’s pretty much the only good thing here. That and I’m not sure Tua has the arm to hit him downfield haha.

On the field he would’ve been an outstanding fit for so many reasons. If he was a Curtis Martin type person I would’ve been absolutely crushed by him choosing Miami yesterday.

exactly, like I said, if you want to tell me you're breathing a sigh of relief because you hate the guy on a personal level, more power to you. I totally get it, and agree with you actually. 

If you want to break down the move from a pure football standpoint, it's a massive piece we were unable to add.  To make matters worse by all accounts, we did not have a shot either (seems like once KC agreed to let Hill decide early in the process, Miami was always going to win out over NY).  for 35,38 and a swap of 3rds i thought this was a no brainer move for the organization, even if the financials were equal because he just turned 28, you have to think he will have a 3 year window of excellent play left, and then from there you can get creative with the contract structure to get out in year 4 and 5 (when Zach's deal would be ready).  

Now if you tell me we are able to pivot and get DK, then i feel better.  While DK has his own personality issues, he does have a cleaner sheet, and is only 24 (25 in December).  Unfortunately does not seem like it will happen right now though. 

JD is going to have to hope that whatever 1/2 rookies they bring in can make some kind of impact next year.  It's going to be difficult because we have to pray for a trade down opportunity otherwise we're going to have to trade up from rd 2 which can be costly. 

[92ShaunEllis92]

6 hours ago, T0mShane said:

<Tyreke Hill, in a September matchup against the Jets, catches 9 passes for 276 yards and three TDs against our defense, led by fourth overall pick Kyle Hamilton>

Joe Douglas: “Checkmate, mother****ers”

If the Jets still get the W when the final whistle blows in that game, then Hill and the fins can have his stats. The victory is all that matters. Lol

we shall see………?