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I love Michael Carter (RB) but I'm taking Breece Hall if there at 38.


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2 hours ago, jNYC1 said:

Narratives are misleading.  Green Bay, Bengals, and Rams have all invested in RBs despite running variations of the scheme.  It doesn’t hurt to have a superstar RB which can now commonly be grabbed in 2nd round… reducing the risk of identifying a Jag that will emerge.  RB room is weak besides Carter.  Why not have a potential weapon added - since Zach needs weapons - we’ve invested in O-line - we want to run the ball - and good o-line can make a really good rb elite.

I think the only real argument against taking a Hall in this draft is that this is a fairly deep running back class and a good one should  be available in rounds 3-4 maybe even falls to 5.  I still take Hall if I'm JD.  He is about as much of a sure thing as there is in this draft and at 38 that is not a reach.  I just don't get this notion that a franchise back is not valuable in todays game and as one put it, "a poor use of resources".  As you mentioned having a 1-2 punch of Carter and Hall with an improved O-line is just what Wilson needs.   Plus with Carters receiving ability, you can line him up in the slot, put him in motion etc.   It just gives the Jets another playmaker out of the backfield.  How in the world is that poor use of resources?? 

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Absolutely f*cking not.

The position is a total luxury and our backs are more than competent to be an effective by committee force. If we do this I will actually rage. No running backs in rounds 1-3 outside of exceptional talents. Hall is a good prospect but nothing more. He's not an Alvin Kamara or CMC. This would be a criminal waste of resources. 

You can get contributors at RB literally anywhere in the draft or from the FA scrap heap. I'm still pissed we spent a 4th rounder on Perine. The running game will go where the line goes. 

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7 hours ago, jNYC1 said:

Narratives are misleading.  Green Bay, Bengals, and Rams have all invested in RBs despite running variations of the scheme.  It doesn’t hurt to have a superstar RB which can now commonly be grabbed in 2nd round… reducing the risk of identifying a Jag that will emerge.  RB room is weak besides Carter.  Why not have a potential weapon added - since Zach needs weapons - we’ve invested in O-line - we want to run the ball - and good o-line can make a really good rb elite.

Packers under LaFleur have taken AJ Dillon at the back of the second round and otherwise they run Aaron Jones who was a fifth rounder. Paying RBs isn’t crazy because they’re cheap, build outs into the contract and your golden. Even then do you think paying Aaron Jones was a good idea?

Bengals under Zach Taylor inherited Joe Mixon and again keep him at mid usage and pay him good not great money. 

The Rams took Cam Akers at 52 overall. Their roster was already super bowl worthy when they took the running back. 

4 hours ago, JetBlue said:

Well of course others had echoed the sentiment just as others have agreed with me.  It is all about our opinions.   You let me know with Ty Johnson and Coleman are "turned" into good players.   If your argument is that this draft has a lot of good running backs that will be available in later rounds, you would be making a better point that I would be hard pressed to disagree with. 

Coleman’s best seasons and the ones that got him paid were in this system. Besides him, players like Elijah Mitchell and Raheem Mostert, and Davonte Freeman have made waves in the system. None of them were high draft picks. 

The potential long-term cap savings and effectiveness of Breece Hall over a mid round RB is minimal and it’s played out any times in this scheme. If the team didn’t have holes at DT, WR, Safety, OL depth, Edge, LB and CB depth then yeah I’d say go for it with Breece Hall. 

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5 hours ago, JetBlue said:

I think the only real argument against taking a Hall in this draft is that this is a fairly deep running back class and a good one should  be available in rounds 3-4 maybe even falls to 5.  I still take Hall if I'm JD.  He is about as much of a sure thing as there is in this draft and at 38 that is not a reach.  I just don't get this notion that a franchise back is not valuable in todays game and as one put it, "a poor use of resources".  As you mentioned having a 1-2 punch of Carter and Hall with an improved O-line is just what Wilson needs.   Plus with Carters receiving ability, you can line him up in the slot, put him in motion etc.   It just gives the Jets another playmaker out of the backfield.  How in the world is that poor use of resources?? 

Here's another way of looking at how RB's should work in this systems and why I agree, it's poor use of resources.  

The top rookie RB's from a production standpoint last year were; Najee Harris, Elijah Mitchell, Javonte Williams, Michael Carter and Chubba Hubbard.  Of those 5 RB's, the player drafted the latest, Elijah Mitchell in the 6th round averaged the highest ypc at 4.7.  Williams 4.4, Carter 4.3, Harris 3.9, Hubbard 3.6.  Carter had the least amount of touches of this group.

Now, lets expand; of those 5 teams, 1 team was a top 5 running team.  San Fran.  San Fran was using a 6th round pick and 2 UDFA's to run the ball last year.  What I think this proves out is the system doesnt require allocating high end resources to RB.  Even Coleman last year, averaged 4.2.  Oh, and, we stole San Fran's guard in FA who was a big part of their success running the ball.  So, upgraded OL, another year in the system, Carter not a rookie, Coleman back in the fold and most importantly, possibly a QB that maybe the defense has to prepare for a bit?  And maybe an occasional lead?

Just seems totally unnecessary in a deep RB class.

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All great points.  If surrounding Zach with the best weapons possible is a goal, then I don’t consider trying to get the best possible running back as a poor choice.  Especially since we’ve built the offense completely with the exception of WR1 and RB.  Most confident that a high end RB will give us the most incremental value to the offense in 2022 - based on what the committee produced in 2021 - and lower risk than finding a late round gem in the draft that will likely have more holes in their overall game (ie pass blocking, receiving, power, etc).  I also agree that there may be serviceable options later in the draft… but making the offense as strong as possible for Zach eval is the lens I prefer.   

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On 3/31/2022 at 7:11 PM, jNYC1 said:

All great points.  If surrounding Zach with the best weapons possible is a goal, then I don’t consider trying to get the best possible running back as a poor choice.  Especially since we’ve built the offense completely with the exception of WR1 and RB.  Most confident that a high end RB will give us the most incremental value to the offense in 2022 - based on what the committee produced in 2021 - and lower risk than finding a late round gem in the draft that will likely have more holes in their overall game (ie pass blocking, receiving, power, etc).  I also agree that there may be serviceable options later in the draft… but making the offense as strong as possible for Zach eval is the lens I prefer.   

I have nothing to add.  I feelings exactly.  

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On 3/31/2022 at 7:11 PM, jNYC1 said:

All great points.  If surrounding Zach with the best weapons possible is a goal, then I don’t consider trying to get the best possible running back as a poor choice.  Especially since we’ve built the offense completely with the exception of WR1 and RB.  Most confident that a high end RB will give us the most incremental value to the offense in 2022 - based on what the committee produced in 2021 - and lower risk than finding a late round gem in the draft that will likely have more holes in their overall game (ie pass blocking, receiving, power, etc).  I also agree that there may be serviceable options later in the draft… but making the offense as strong as possible for Zach eval is the lens I prefer.   

Can't argue with you as you do make solid points.  Still if I can get a 'GREAT' back not, good, I will still think it is worth the 38th pick.  Carter looks good but he also seem a bit small and injury prone.   We could use a true bell cow for Zach.  If we can find one in the later rounds that would be great (I also love Jerome Ford for round 4) but I think Hall can really be special. 

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Im huge fan of Breece Hall but understand if we pick someone ahead of him since I believe there are many really good players around the same area where Breece will be picked..

2 other RB that intrigue me are

 

the kid from Baylor who was a LB and the Kid from LSU ty

either real long shot for JETS but I like how they both play.

 

 

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Obviously it depends on what's available but I think we should hold off on RB until probably the 4th round.  Even if Hall ends up being great, every year you can get a high ceiling RB.  Plus you can usually find high-ceiling RBs later in the draft anyway.  This is a great TE class as well but I don't think we should make that move until the 3rd or 4th round either.  Those 1st 4 picks will hopefully get us at least a high-end WR and hopefully a quality Edge.  We could use a LB and probably another DL as well.  If we add Jameson Williams or Garrett (or maybe London?) in addition to one of these TEs and a good RB (both realistic to get in the 4th round), that would go a long way toward fixing the defense and really helping out the offense.  

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23 hours ago, SickJetFan said:

Im huge fan of Breece Hall but understand if we pick someone ahead of him since I believe there are many really good players around the same area where Breece will be picked..

2 other RB that intrigue me are

 

the kid from Baylor who was a LB and the Kid from LSU ty

either real long shot for JETS but I like how they both play.

 

 

maybe not such long shot afterall

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On 3/27/2022 at 11:58 AM, Untouchable said:

Frankly I don’t know why so many are against it.

Yeah, yeah…”RB has been devalued”, “it would be a luxury pick”, etc.

Unless we land a dude like Metcalf or Brown in the next few weeks, we’re most likely going into next season with Davis, Moore and Berrios as our Top 3 receivers. And every single one of them finished last year on IR.

Garrett Wilson is the only wideout worth taking in the Top 10 IMO and as much as I like him, I’m not remotely convinced that Douglas would take him at #10 over walking away from the 1st round with something like an Ahmad Gardner/Jermaine Johnson combo.

A solid plan for the Jets (and especially Zach) to be successful in 2022, barring a big trade for a legitimate #1 WR, is to run a bunch of 12 personnel with Uzomah and Conklin on the field at the same time and smashing the sh*t out of defenses with a Hall/Carter/Coleman trio behind a fortified OL.

You could wait and take Robinson from Bama. He’s a great compliment to MC. Those 2 2nd rounders could be translated into more vital positions like OT, CB, WR, LB, S. And there’s going to be some very good talent available there: Muma, Harris, Watson, Cine

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1 minute ago, Beerfish said:

Breece Hall has the production and nice work out numbers but when I watched him I just did not see anything too special to be honest.

I watched a few of the highlights below and the one thing I was surprised to read was that he ran a 4.39 in the 40.  He doesn't look that fast on the field as far as I can tell.  He does seem to take smart angles and looks very comfortable catching the ball in the passing game (check out the highlight at the 1m mark).  If JD believes in him then I'm all on board.  But from my untrained eye, I'm not seeing a superstar here.  

 

 

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55 minutes ago, TuscanyTile2 said:

I watched a few of the highlights below and the one thing I was surprised to read was that he ran a 4.39 in the 40.  He doesn't look that fast on the field as far as I can tell.  He does seem to take smart angles and looks very comfortable catching the ball in the passing game (check out the highlight at the 1m mark).  If JD believes in him then I'm all on board.  But from my untrained eye, I'm not seeing a superstar here.  

 

 

I think the run at 3:30 is the best example of him being around that level of speed, though there are a couple others. The play the Texas defender has the angle on him after he cuts the other way in the open field and he beats him to the pylon is more impressive than it looks, too. He looks a little slower than he is because he’s patient, glides a little, and he has good vision but he hits home runs more than slower backs and doesn’t get caught from behind too often.

This also wasn’t Najee Harris at Alabama or Travis Etienne at Clemson either. Hall was the best player on Iowa State by a wide margin, the guy defenses were game planning for. He had a higher percentage of Iowa State’s total (passing + rushing) yards (32.1%) than Garrett Wilson did of Ohio State’s passing yards (21.4%). I don’t think a lot of guys in this draft have experience being the guy on their offense (and those that do have questions about their athleticism) - Hall does. And the big thing is he’s going probably a full round later than guys like Wilson. I know RB is devalued and WR is hyper valued but I think the pendulum has swung too far.

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We could argue about whether 35 or 38 was too high or if we had other needs and lots of other silly topics....

but if we do draft him, we are all going to be very, very amped up to see him touch the football in September.  And nobody will be thinking about which Safety we passed up to take him the first time he carves out a 15 yard run on 1st down.

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2 hours ago, derp said:

I think the run at 3:30 is the best example of him being around that level of speed, though there are a couple others. The play the Texas defender has the angle on him after he cuts the other way in the open field and he beats him to the pylon is more impressive than it looks, too. He looks a little slower than he is because he’s patient, glides a little, and he has good vision but he hits home runs more than slower backs and doesn’t get caught from behind too often.

This also wasn’t Najee Harris at Alabama or Travis Etienne at Clemson either. Hall was the best player on Iowa State by a wide margin, the guy defenses were game planning for. He had a higher percentage of Iowa State’s total (passing + rushing) yards (32.1%) than Garrett Wilson did of Ohio State’s passing yards (21.4%). I don’t think a lot of guys in this draft have experience being the guy on their offense (and those that do have questions about their athleticism) - Hall does. And the big thing is he’s going probably a full round later than guys like Wilson. I know RB is devalued and WR is hyper valued but I think the pendulum has swung too far.

It might just be that he has a long stride and so he's faster than he might appear.  (Or maybe I'm just wrong entirely - lol).

 

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  • 3 weeks later...
Okay so I take him at 38 if he is there and don't look back.  He will make Zachs growth and development a lot easier. 

Would love to have a running game similar to Tenn. That would help Zach almost as much as great WRs


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There are just so many things I want to do with those 35 and 38 picks.  Such a sweet spot in this particular Draft.

We’ll be in prime position to get our CJ Mosley replacement, might find Lewis Cine at Safety there, good spot for a Right Tackle if Jets went Edge/WR in Round 1, good spot for a Tier 2 WR if they didn’t hit WR in Round 1, good spot for the best or second best RB in the Draft, etc.

Just so much there.

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On 4/3/2022 at 6:51 PM, JetBlue said:

Can't argue with you as you do make solid points.  Still if I can get a 'GREAT' back not, good, I will still think it is worth the 38th pick.  Carter looks good but he also seem a bit small and injury prone.   We could use a true bell cow for Zach.  If we can find one in the later rounds that would be great (I also love Jerome Ford for round 4) but I think Hall can really be special. 

Carter is ideal to share the load, not carry the ball 250 times a year.

It's one of the reasons I like Spiller in the 3rd or 4th round.   Not great speed, but has good ability to make people miss, more physical than Carter, and split the load at A&M, so he doesn't have tons of wear.

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On 3/26/2022 at 11:38 AM, Matt39 said:


 

jets need point scorers. 

 

On 3/28/2022 at 9:08 AM, nycdan said:

If we could trade #35 for Jonathon Taylor, I would do it in a heartbeat.  We can't know if Hall turns out that good, but the upside of that pick is worth it if it works.  I believe RB in top-10 is probably a mistake.  I have no issues taking a potentially great RB in round 2.

Look at Jonathan Taylor's OL though.

Also, I remember hearing about how great Leonard Fournette and Saquon Barkley were.  Just build a great OL and we'll find some mid-round talent at RB.

 

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On 4/27/2022 at 10:47 PM, TuscanyTile2 said:

 

Look at Jonathan Taylor's OL though.

Also, I remember hearing about how great Leonard Fournette and Saquon Barkley were.  Just build a great OL and we'll find some mid-round talent at RB.

 

We have Tomlinson, AVT and Becton, all excellent run blockers.  Fant and our center isn't exactly chopped liver either

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On 3/27/2022 at 10:58 AM, Untouchable said:

Garrett Wilson is the only wideout worth taking in the Top 10 IMO and as much as I like him, I’m not remotely convinced that Douglas would take him at #10 over walking away from the 1st round with something like an Ahmad Gardner/Jermaine Johnson combo.


LOL

Fast forward a month later and we get all 3 of these f*cking guys.

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I haven’t watched a ton of the rbs. Is he really THAT much better than guys who will go later? 
 

Id argue that the other positions like DT/Lb/S the drop off is much harder than rb which it seems like there will be a ton of guys in rounds 4/5

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On 4/9/2022 at 3:15 PM, nycdan said:

We could argue about whether 35 or 38 was too high or if we had other needs and lots of other silly topics....

but if we do draft him, we are all going to be very, very amped up to see him touch the football in September.  And nobody will be thinking about which Safety we passed up to take him the first time he carves out a 15 yard run on 1st down.

I have to go with this.  I wouldn't be angry if they picked Hall @ 38

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1 hour ago, kdels62 said:

You know what… I’d take Breece Hall now. That first round did the heavy lifting.

Funny but as much as I also want Hall, I would try and trade back 5-10 spots and see if I could still get him and add an extra 3rd or 4th round pick.   If we stay at 38, I am really thinking of double dipping at receiver and taking Christian Watson if he is there.  If both are there, that would be a tough decision. 

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Well Breece Hall was the pick.... at 36 after the trade up! Wow, JD is giving Zach playmakers and that is what is all about.   Wilson, Moore, Carter, Hall, etc.  Man this is getting really exciting!!!! 

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5 hours ago, BurntDice said:

I haven’t watched a ton of the rbs. Is he really THAT much better than guys who will go later? 
 

Id argue that the other positions like DT/Lb/S the drop off is much harder than rb which it seems like there will be a ton of guys in rounds 4/5

Yes... he is. 

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