First desperation move by Joe

[oatmeal]

35 minutes ago, kevinc855 said:

JD knows the team is not close to competing against this current AFC.

You are dang right hes panicking. 

This

Notice how the harsh truth gets downvoted into oblivion by all the green glasses colored, fan fiction loving, jag praising, draft picks loving, proven player hating, jet fans 

[Joe W. Namath]

I am choosing to believe the Jets side of things were fluffed up by media etc.  Joe D easily could have let some false stuff leaked to make it look like he was being serious.

But, if the reports are true, yes I am very concerned and disappointed and Joe and Robert.  There is no need to panic right now.  The 2022 season is year 2 of a ground up rebuild.  Even with Tyreke Hill we are not a serious contender next year.

Let all these other teams overspend, bring in aging players etc.  This will all come to bite them in the ass in 2 years.  And that should be when we pounce.

We build a sick, young core this year and next.  And when all these other teams start aging and the bad contract start becoming a problem, thats when we ascend and take over the AFC.  Trying to compete now is silly and stupid as we are not there yet.

Stay the course Joe and Robert.  Build this through the draft and by 2024, we can be the best team in the AFC.

 

[DetroitRed]

I don’t like Tyreek Hill

 

But, i can see why he wanted to pull the trigger.  You have to give Zach the tools for development.  This is a critical year. It has nothing to do with winning a superbowl

[slimjasi]

28 minutes ago, Phillyjet said:

The NY media would have given him no forgiveness for that, and they would have roasted him here.  And I still question whether his best days are behind him.  How would he react to that negativity here and the constant barage from the media.  The Jets are not given the benefit of the doubt; when they lose, the negativity multiplies.  Not sure that would have gone well. 

You could be right

 

but let me be the first to say, in this wonderful thread of yours:

f*ck the NY media

[TuscanyTile2]

9 minutes ago, JiFapono said:

This board cracks me up.  Hill is going to down hill?  lmfao  He's 28, he's played 6 years, that's absolutely nothing for a WR.  Especially one like him who never gets touched, the guy is coming off 111, 1200 and 9 Td's, lmfao .  I love the mental gymnastics people are doing thinking we dodged a bullet here.  Tyreek Hill would instantly be the best WR the Jets have had since Don Maynard.   He would change the entire dynamic of the Jets offense.  

Ultimately it didnt matter, he didnt want to play in NY but the idea the Jets dodged a bullet is next level insecurity. 

Agreed that he's a game-changing talent but he's also a volatile guy.  He also got a bunch of guaranteed money.  You think there's no chance things go bad for Miami in this deal?  What if he doesn't like Tua?  Or their HC?  He can say anything he wants now and there's nothing they can do.  They paid a lot of money and draft capital to acquire him.  Sure they'd be able to trade him but they'll get back pennies on the dollar if he's a headcase.  Supposedly he's a great teammate (according to, I think, Mahomes), but maybe part of that was that KC was a great team.  What happens if Tua can't take advantage of all that talent Miami has?  Things could get ugly quickly.

Plus there's always the (very real) chance he'll have a violent flare-up again in his personal life and get suspended. 

EDIT: Also add the Miami nightlife into the equation.  There are plenty of potential pitfalls for him in Miami.

[FTL Jet Fan]

Regardless of the outcome this trade seemed strange, it all happened in about an hour, the news breaking a trade was in the works they built it up saying Douglas is willing to give up whatever but decision is on Hill. No other teams involved for a top WR like Hill?

Just the Dolphins and the Jets? 

 

[Tranquilo]

9 minutes ago, playtowinthegame said:

He should have showed more desperation and made an offer the Chiefs and Tyreek couldn't refuse. Yesterday was a bad day for this organization. They're gonna need to cross their fingers and hope someone else like that becomes available. 

He's not Vito and this isn't the mob. Tyreek had leverage because he was on a year contract. And the Jets would've been stupid to give all that up for a rental.

[TuscanyTile2]

3 minutes ago, Joe W. Namath said:

I am choosing to believe the Jets side of things were fluffed up by media etc.  Joe D easily could have let some false stuff leaked to make it look like he was being serious.

But, if the reports are true, yes I am very concerned and disappointed and Joe and Robert.  There is no need to panic right now.  The 2022 season is year 2 of a ground up rebuild.  Even with Tyreke Hill we are not a serious contender next year.

Let all these other teams overspend, bring in aging players etc.  This will all come to bite them in the ass in 2 years.  And that should be when we pounce.

We build a sick, young core this year and next.  And when all these other teams start aging and the bad contract start becoming a problem, thats when we ascend and take over the AFC.  Trying to compete now is silly and stupid as we are not there yet.

Stay the course Joe and Robert.  Build this through the draft and by 2024, we can be the best team in the AFC.

 

This isn't even a question.  JD absolutely did want Tyreek here.  He made a trade offer that was accepted by KC.  Miami also made an offer that KC accepted.  They let Tyreek choose his destination.  He chose Miami.

 

[BigRy56]

I don’t think it was a panic move, I think it’s what this offense needs… and I’m really glad JD understands that.

JD had his walk off grand slam of the off-season heading out of the ballpark yesterday, it just got robbed at the wall. It could’ve been the most transformational move of his tenure, for only 2 second round picks (wow), but instead we’ll have to hope Hill cashes in and checks out so we can look at Miami as the fools that paid him.

[Origen]

43 minutes ago, kevinc855 said:

JD knows the team is not close to competing against this current AFC.

You are dang right hes panicking. 

Totally should have given him a Trumaine Johnson type deal.  That worked out for us.  Just offer the most and the best play the hardest for us, right?

[Rhg1084]

We have Zach on a rookie deal so now is the perfect time to pay a WR $30m if we want. Hill would’ve been the perfect fit to take Zach to the end of his rookie contract. And they wouldn’t have blown up their draft as they have a billion picks and would’ve still kept picks 4 and 10

[Augustiniak]

2 minutes ago, TuscanyTile2 said:

This isn't even a question.  JD absolutely did want Tyreek here.  He made a trade offer that was accepted by KC.  Miami also made an offer that KC accepted.  They let Tyreek choose his destination.  He chose Miami.

 

The question to douglas is, if he wanted hill enough to trade multiple 2nd round picks, and was presumably willing to sign him to mega money for a few years, then why wouldn’t he up the offer to make the chiefs decide to not allow hill to decide for himself?  Hill didn’t have a no trade clause, so if douglas wanted to he could have offered more to make the chiefs say to hill, look, we’re getting more from the jets so you don’t have the choice anymore.  

[Biggs]

The Bills, Jets and Dolphins have all made moves prior to the draft.  Right now on paper the Bills and Miami have done more to improve their teams than the Jets have.

Bad teams have more draft capital and salary cap.  That's how the league works.  The offseason is a competition.  We aren't building our team in a vacuum.  AFC teams have done a lot to improve their rosters prior to the draft.   The Jets have done a lot.  Arguably less than a lot of the teams in our confrence and division.  

Best case scenario is Zach goes from the worst QB in the division to No. 2 this year.  The Dolphins have given Tua a lot of help.  Zach may continue to be the worst QB in the division if we don't get him some serious help.  

Joe D may actually believe that Hill is worth the draft capital.   He might have even been right.   There are lots of ways to build teams and improve rosters.  Last offseason the Rams dumped a QB they drafted to build around who took them to a SB to make a high risk move to get Stafford.  It worked.  This offseason we have seen more blockbuster trades and movement of great players.  The league is changing.  Adapt or die.  

There are new materials to build with.  The draft isn't the only way.  

[oatmeal]

5 minutes ago, Joe W. Namath said:

I am choosing to believe the Jets side of things were fluffed up by media etc.  Joe D easily could have let some false stuff leaked to make it look like he was being serious.

But, if the reports are true, yes I am very concerned and disappointed and Joe and Robert.  There is no need to panic right now.  The 2022 season is year 2 of a ground up rebuild.  Even with Tyreke Hill we are not a serious contender next year.

Let all these other teams overspend, bring in aging players etc.  This will all come to bite them in the ass in 2 years.  And that should be when we pounce.

We build a sick, young core this year and next.  And when all these other teams start aging and the bad contract start becoming a problem, thats when we ascend and take over the AFC.  Trying to compete now is silly and stupid as we are not there yet.

Stay the course Joe and Robert.  Build this through the draft and by 2024, we can be the best team in the AFC.

 

Or it could be that these dudes don’t really have a plan and just sell us all this bag of goods to buy themselves time.

 

Regardless they come across as liars as I said here for a while now.

everyone called me crazy for calling JD I liar but proof is in the pudding, since he’s been here his words and actions haven’t matched, when it comes to his so called “core principles”. 
 

LOL THEY SURE LOVE THEIR HIGH CHARACTER GUYS HUH????

 

Lmfaooo ???

 

What a joke ?

[GangGreened]

Yup. As soon as I saw the Jets were involved with this I thought maybe JD is facing a little more pressure than his fan club seems to think.

[Phillyjet]

13 minutes ago, TuscanyTile2 said:

Joe definitely feels the pressure to win now.  This season he's not going to be allowed the same excuses as his previous seasons here.  ZW is no longer a rookie.  And he can no longer say he's cleaning up Macc's mess.   I agree this move felt like there was some desperation to it.  I do think he wants to make ZW look good this year but he hasn't given him the "weapinz".  I think he also sees that the AFC is really looking loaded so, even though we improved, there's no guarantee we're going to win that many games.  

Exactly, although the "AFC is so improved" is media hype to a large extent.  These QBs would not be moving if there weren't issues.  I think Denver is much better, but Wilson is not what he once was.  Raiders, maybe, although I'm not convinced.  ANd one injury to Adams and they are in cap hell.  Dolphins are desperate to reset their image.  Not convinced Tua is the guy.  The Jags, maybe a bit better, addition by subtraction, but we'll see.  Watson and the Browns feels like a disaster waiting to happen.  Bills will be good, but pretty much the same as last year... not sure Von Miller does much more than eat cap.  Patriots are doing what they always do, build a team, nothing flashy this time around. 

NFC is rebuilding again, but I'm not convinced that all the "wins" in free agency lead to huge changes in January.  Occasionally for a team or two, but most of the teams in January have built it through the draft.  Rams are one of the few exceptions, which may have led teams to over-react this offseason.

[oatmeal]

14 minutes ago, Origen said:

Totally should have given him a Trumaine Johnson type deal.  That worked out for us.  Just offer the most and the best play the hardest for us, right?

It’s amazing how jet fans will just bring up a past bad free agent signing to justify us losing out. 
 

Listen every team has over spent for a underperforming FA, so does this mean every organization should just stop taking chances on high paid free agents?
 

Jets have drafted terribly historically especially in the first round, should we just give up all of our draft picks too because of past failures???

 

Smfh

[Augustiniak]

3 minutes ago, GangGreened said:

Yup. As soon as I saw the Jets were involved with this I thought maybe JD is facing a little more pressure than his fan club seems to think.

You don’t get to keep your gm job if your team keeps picking in the top 5.

[68JET11]

58 minutes ago, Tranquilo said:

He wouldn't have even given up a 1st round pick in that deal. You say desperation, but I say calculated. 

On top of that, he probably already calculated that he could move back in the 1st with either or both picks to recoup the picks in the 2nd and 3rd. So I believe he know exactly what he was doing, and I agree completely with your statement.

[GangGreened]

Just now, Augustiniak said:

You don’t get to keep your gm job if your team keeps picking in the top 5.

Agreed

[Vader]

There are always shortcuts. Always take shortcuts. Except when building things.

[JustInFudge]

16 minutes ago, TuscanyTile2 said:

Agreed that he's a game-changing talent but he's also a volatile guy.  He also got a bunch of guaranteed money.  You think there's no chance things go bad for Miami in this deal?  What if he doesn't like Tua?  Or their HC?  He can say anything he wants now and there's nothing they can do.  They paid a lot of money and draft capital to acquire him.  Sure they'd be able to trade him but they'll get back pennies on the dollar if he's a headcase.  Supposedly he's a great teammate (according to, I think, Mahomes), but maybe part of that was that KC was a great team.  What happens if Tua can't take advantage of all that talent Miami has?  Things could get ugly quickly.

Plus there's always the (very real) chance he'll have a violent flare-up again in his personal life and get suspended. 

EDIT: Also add the Miami nightlife into the equation.  There are plenty of potential pitfalls for him in Miami.

First and foremost, I'm not saying I would have done this deal.  I'm just laughing at the idea that people are seriously trying to convince themselves that a 28 year old Tyreek Hill is washed up but this board cried out loud for weeks over losing out on Adams and Cooper who are both the same age, yet both have more mileage and more injuries in their past.  Again, it just screams insecurity.

As for your take, personally, I think the city distraction sh*t people love talking about here is completely and totally irrelevant and not a real thing, at all.  Remember all the, OMG, OBJ in LA talk?  Yeah, that place revitalized his career.  These dudes are multi-millionaires, you think when Tyreek Hill wants to party, he's hanging out in KC?  Hell nah, dudes flying to where he wants, staying where he wants, doing whatever the F he wants.  Besides, there are all sorts of bad distractions in every city, if you're looking to get into bad sh*t, it's not hard and it doesnt take a vibrant city to do so.  Johnny Manziel ruined his career in the vibrant city of Cleveland.  It can happen anywhere.  

 

 

[oatmeal]

4 minutes ago, Phillyjet said:

Exactly, although the "AFC is so improved" is media hype to a large extent.  These QBs would not be moving if there weren't issues.  I think Denver is much better, but Wilson is not what he once was.  Raiders, maybe, although I'm not convinced.  ANd one injury to Adams and they are in cap hell.  Dolphins are desperate to reset their image.  Not convinced Tua is the guy.  The Jags, maybe a bit better, addition by subtraction, but we'll see.  Watson and the Browns feels like a disaster waiting to happen.  Bills will be good, but pretty much the same as last year... not sure Von Miller does much more than eat cap.  Patriots are doing what they always do, build a team, nothing flashy this time around. 

NFC is rebuilding again, but I'm not convinced that all the "wins" in free agency lead to huge changes in January.  Occasionally for a team or two, but most of the teams in January have built it through the draft.  Rams are one of the few exceptions, which may have led teams to over-react this offseason.

? ??

Mental gymnastics 101 

 

[slimjasi]

19 minutes ago, TuscanyTile2 said:

Agreed that he's a game-changing talent but he's also a volatile guy.  He also got a bunch of guaranteed money.  You think there's no chance things go bad for Miami in this deal?  What if he doesn't like Tua?  Or their HC?  He can say anything he wants now and there's nothing they can do.  They paid a lot of money and draft capital to acquire him.  Sure they'd be able to trade him but they'll get back pennies on the dollar if he's a headcase.  Supposedly he's a great teammate (according to, I think, Mahomes), but maybe part of that was that KC was a great team.  What happens if Tua can't take advantage of all that talent Miami has?  Things could get ugly quickly.

Plus there's always the (very real) chance he'll have a violent flare-up again in his personal life and get suspended. 

EDIT: Also add the Miami nightlife into the equation.  There are plenty of potential pitfalls for him in Miami.

I definitely think there is a chance he'll end up being a disappointment in Miami just like he could have been here (especially with an unproven QB), but I think it was a worthwhile gamble for both the Jets and Dolphins. I think you have to swing for the fences for S tier talent. 

[DetroitRed]

Would you rather pay crazy socialist taxes or Florida? 

[slimjasi]

9 minutes ago, oatmeal said:

It’s amazing how jet fans will just bring up a past bad free agent signing to justify us losing out. 
 

Listen every team has over spent for a underperforming FA, so does this mean every organization should just stop taking chances on high paid free agents?
 

Jets have drafted terribly historically especially in the first round, should we just give up all of our draft picks too because of past failures???

 

Smfh

Yep, exactly this. 

I guess we shouldn't draft an edge rusher ever again since we took Vernon Gholston in 2008. 

[slimjasi]

27 minutes ago, TuscanyTile2 said:

From what I heard, his teammates love him.  But I still am very happy he's not here.  I couldn't root for a guy like that, regardless of how talented he is (and he's extremely talented).

I respect this. I just choose to look the other way. I think if we really knew what all NFL players were up to, some of us might choose to no longer follow the sport. 

I agree that Hill's history of domestic violence is nauseating. 

 

[Stark]

1 hour ago, Phillyjet said:

He would have blown up the 2nd and 3rd rounds, where the heart of this draft is.  We are not one player away.  And I still believe Tyreek was not a good fit for this organization.  He makes Santonio look like a saint.  And Santonio disappeared after he got his contract.

trade down from 10 to recoup the lost 2nd and 3rd rounders ... wasn't a bad attempt at all. 

[Stark]

11 minutes ago, JiFapono said:

First and foremost, I'm not saying I would have done this deal.  I'm just laughing at the idea that people are seriously trying to convince themselves that a 28 year old Tyreek Hill is washed up but this board cried out loud for weeks over losing out on Adams and Cooper who are both the same age, yet both have more mileage and more injuries in their past.  Again, it just screams insecurity.

As for your take, personally, I think the city distraction sh*t people love talking about here is completely and totally irrelevant and not a real thing, at all.  Remember all the, OMG, OBJ in LA talk?  Yeah, that place revitalized his career.  These dudes are multi-millionaires, you think when Tyreek Hill wants to party, he's hanging out in KC?  Hell nah, dudes flying to where he wants, staying where he wants, doing whatever the F he wants.  Besides, there are all sorts of bad distractions in every city, if you're looking to get into bad sh*t, it's not hard and it doesnt take a vibrant city to do so.  Johnny Manziel ruined his career in the vibrant city of Cleveland.  It can happen anywhere.  

[TuscanyTile2]

18 minutes ago, Phillyjet said:

Exactly, although the "AFC is so improved" is media hype to a large extent.  These QBs would not be moving if there weren't issues.  I think Denver is much better, but Wilson is not what he once was.  Raiders, maybe, although I'm not convinced.  ANd one injury to Adams and they are in cap hell.  Dolphins are desperate to reset their image.  Not convinced Tua is the guy.  The Jags, maybe a bit better, addition by subtraction, but we'll see.  Watson and the Browns feels like a disaster waiting to happen.  Bills will be good, but pretty much the same as last year... not sure Von Miller does much more than eat cap.  Patriots are doing what they always do, build a team, nothing flashy this time around. 

NFC is rebuilding again, but I'm not convinced that all the "wins" in free agency lead to huge changes in January.  Occasionally for a team or two, but most of the teams in January have built it through the draft.  Rams are one of the few exceptions, which may have led teams to over-react this offseason.

I think Denver and the Browns will be much improved.  But I do agree that things will quickly change in a year or 2.  And some of these teams are probably illusions.  And FA is often a mirage.

[The Crusher]

1 hour ago, Phillyjet said:

Count me as someone who has been impressed by Joe's plan, never overpaying and taking the pain to restore a draft pipeline to the organization.  He was poised to strike for the right players if they were available and he spread it around.  Then came word that he was seriously considering paying a safety Marcus Williams over 15 million, a couple of years after he jettisoned Jamal, and then refused to pay Marcus Maye.  We dodged that bullet and he held.

The Tyreek thing was a whole other level.  A 28 yo Tyreek Hill, who let's face it, his best days are probably behind him, is going to blow up our draft and get the highest contract ever for a WR.  Domestic abuse history.  NY Jets and our history, our media.  This was a cocktail bound to blow up in our faces.  Reeked desperation to get that "player" for Zach.  There are no shortcuts here. THe best teams develop their players through the draft and use FA to supplement needs.  You overpay for your lineman, edge and CB.  At these prices for WRs, it makes no sense, particularly with a now steady pipeline of WRs every year in the draft.

We dodged a bullet again, but the fact that we almost sealed this deal convinces me that Joe is under a lot of pressure to win now.  I for one am happy we have our draft picks.  I would consider double dipping at WR in Rounds 1 and 2-3.  And I am willing to tolerate a 7-9 win season, to get us in position to grow again next year.  Tyreek sounded like a shiny new toy, but he wasn't.  He was a disaster waiting to happen in this market, and on this franchise.

Almost? Nope. 

[Phillyjet]

30 minutes ago, slimjasi said:

You could be right

 

but let me be the first to say, in this wonderful thread of yours:

f*ck the NY media

If this was a 28 yo Larry Fitzgerald, I have no problem with the move.  Look at CJ, he sat out and could have gotten run out of town. But he is a real leader and he has fit in this past year.  Not nearly living up to the contract, but found his place. Fitzgerald could have done that, I largely question whether Tyreek is the guy you put on the posters.  

There are no shortcuts here... we are not one of those teams like the Rams or Bucs who can persuade people to join the party.  We need to ascend first, create our own legion of boom and our own identity.  It is what it is.

[PepPep]

1 hour ago, Tranquilo said:

He wouldn't have even given up a 1st round pick in that deal. You say desperation, but I say calculated. 

I 100% agree. This was the first thing I posted when I saw the hill thread. To me, it reeked of JD driving the price up for the Dolphins. This is what competent GMs do. What confident GMs are not afraid to do with division rivals. There is ABSOLUTELY no way JD was going to give up that kind of draft capital, to hand out T.Hill that kind of contract, knowing full well his off filed history and the fact that he is a WR approaching 30. It just made no sense. 

And I did see multiple reports after the fact that the Jets did not even offer a 1st rounder for him. Apparently it was two second and a third rounders this year. Thats it! I mean, if thats desperately going after Hill JD must not know the meaning of the word.  

[rangerous]

first off it's not like the jets didn't make a good offer.  they reportedly offered a number of 2nd and 3rd rounders.  the doltfins offered up their first and some future picks.  i don't think it would've blown up in the jets' face.  hill is still more than a good play.  the guy is quick as a cat and has great hands.  other teams need to scheme for him.  and he's probably got 3 more high production seasons.  but it still would've been a high price to pay.  those draft picks today will be the starters 2 or 3 seasons from now.

[slimjasi]

2 minutes ago, Phillyjet said:

If this was a 28 yo Larry Fitzgerald, I have no problem with the move.  Look at CJ, he sat out and could have gotten run out of town. But he is a real leader and he has fit in this past year.  Not nearly living up to the contract, but found his place. Fitzgerald could have done that, I largely question whether Tyreek is the guy you put on the posters.  

There are no shortcuts here... we are not one of those teams like the Rams or Bucs who can persuade people to join the party.  We need to ascend first, create our own legion of boom and our own identity.  It is what it is.

We agree on the basic point that no star player is looking to come here. 

We'll have to build organically and establish competence first.