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First desperation move by Joe


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26 minutes ago, Augustiniak said:

The question to douglas is, if he wanted hill enough to trade multiple 2nd round picks, and was presumably willing to sign him to mega money for a few years, then why wouldn’t he up the offer to make the chiefs decide to not allow hill to decide for himself?  Hill didn’t have a no trade clause, so if douglas wanted to he could have offered more to make the chiefs say to hill, look, we’re getting more from the jets so you don’t have the choice anymore.  

Here it is again: If the Chiefs play hardball with Hill and say that they’ll only trade him to the Jets, then Hill turns around and says “Fine.  I’ll play for them for the one year left on my contract, then sign with the team I really want to play for in 2023”.  

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Just now, MykePM said:

Here it is again: If the Chiefs play hardball with Hill and say that they’ll only trade him to the Jets, then Hill turns around and says “Fine.  I’ll play for them for the one year left on my contract, then sign with the team I really want to play for in 2023”.  

If that conversation happened, then no way the jets could have upped the offer, if hill said he’d never sign an extension with the jets.  But that hasn’t been reported yet.

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6 minutes ago, slimjasi said:

We agree on the basic point that no star player is looking to come here. 

We'll have to build organically and establish competence first. 

 

If wilson improves and the jets do ok this year i think they will become a preferred destination. Young nucleus and a coach who players want to play for.  The jets just need to draft themselves out of the funk.

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1 minute ago, slimjasi said:

We agree on the basic point that no star player is looking to come here. 

We'll have to build organically and establish competence first. 

 

It's pretty simple and been that way for a while. What gets me is that FAs are signing with Buffalo and California teams with the tax issues they have. Sure California weather is obviously a thing, but Buffalo isn't a pleasant place to be during the wint- ever. Jets need to nail the draft, develop Zach, and teams will want to play for the Jets. It's simple.

I don't get the overreactions to this. Desperation would've been upping the draft pick ante to trade for a guy who probably wasn't going to commit to NY for a while or handing out a contract that compensated that offset some of the income tax tradeoff. He didn't do that. I question whether it was close at all for Hill and whether the chiefs just wanted to max out leverage on Miami the whole time, but it shows at worst that JD knows that WR is a priority position to target.

 

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1 hour ago, kevinc855 said:

JD knows the team is not close to competing against this current AFC.

You are dang right hes panicking. 

Actually.  With the new TE's and new OL additions, if Wilson actually turns into a serviceable QB (does not have to be a star), the Jets should be in most of their games.  NE does not scare me and neither does Miami.  

Also... The Jets defense is not predicated on star power.  If they have a decent stable of players on defense, they wont be getting blown out even if they don't yet add a really good edge rusher.  And, that defense does not need a Revis type CB to run the way it is designed to.

Saleh has also proved to me that he is going to be a good HC for the future.  The clues were there.  He's gearing up to oversee the entire team and not just part of it.  He's finding his way, but he knows the right direction to go in.  Also... There was no back-biting or drama from the locker room when they were losing.  That is a good sign. And... Super key.  No silly time management issues, no procedural penalties at the start of a game, quarter or drive and no 12 men on the field type of stuff.  The coaching was not a problem.  The roster needed improvement.

We are all taking about JD's FA moves which have been fantastic and we are all discussing the draft, but the all encompassing factor is still Zach Wilson. 

It all comes down to him.   If he works, so will the Jets.

If Zach turns the corner, don't be surprised to see the Jets win 8 to 10 games.

If Zach busts, 6 wins at most and all wins due mostly to sound scheme. 

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25 minutes ago, JiFapono said:

First and foremost, I'm not saying I would have done this deal.  I'm just laughing at the idea that people are seriously trying to convince themselves that a 28 year old Tyreek Hill is washed up but this board cried out loud for weeks over losing out on Adams and Cooper who are both the same age, yet both have more mileage and more injuries in their past.  Again, it just screams insecurity.

As for your take, personally, I think the city distraction sh*t people love talking about here is completely and totally irrelevant and not a real thing, at all.  Remember all the, OMG, OBJ in LA talk?  Yeah, that place revitalized his career.  These dudes are multi-millionaires, you think when Tyreek Hill wants to party, he's hanging out in KC?  Hell nah, dudes flying to where he wants, staying where he wants, doing whatever the F he wants.  Besides, there are all sorts of bad distractions in every city, if you're looking to get into bad sh*t, it's not hard and it doesnt take a vibrant city to do so.  Johnny Manziel ruined his career in the vibrant city of Cleveland.  It can happen anywhere.  

 

 

While I agree...any time you trade a boat load of draft capital and sign a guy to a MONSTER deal you are incurring risk and putting a ton of pressure, not just on the player but on the team to make this 'work'. And while there is no doubt he is a superstar player and can take the Dolphins to the next level, there are a lot of ways this can go bad. Its as simple as that. He is no longer with Andy Reid. He no longer has Mahomes throwing him the ball. He DOES have a history of off field issues- maybe they won't come up again- but if they do, he could be looking at a hefty suspension- that means your pricey, shiny new toy is benched. THIS MATTERS. His mega contract matters. While there ways you can work around the cap, the Dolphins are paying him A LOT of money. And a lot of it is guaranteed. What if he gets hurt? This is football. You have to take that into account with every player. But when you commit to a guy and give up a ton of draft capital for him, him getting hurt suddenly becomes a major concern.   

Hill is a great player, no question. But this will come down to whether the Dolphins will get what they paid for and they paid so much that its very possible, in they end they will not. 

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7 minutes ago, Jets Voice of Reason said:

It's pretty simple and been that way for a while. What gets me is that FAs are signing with Buffalo and California teams with the tax issues they have. Sure California weather is obviously a thing, but Buffalo isn't a pleasant place to be during the wint- ever. Jets need to nail the draft, develop Zach, and teams will want to play for the Jets. It's simple.

I don't get the overreactions to this. Desperation would've been upping the draft pick ante to trade for a guy who probably wasn't going to commit to NY for a while or handing out a contract that compensated that offset some of the income tax tradeoff. He didn't do that. I question whether it was close at all for Hill and whether the chiefs just wanted to max out leverage on Miami the whole time, but it shows at worst that JD knows that WR is a priority position to target.

 

Agreed 

 

I think the overreaction is because we got teased being one of the two “finalists”

also, this fanbase is fed up. We’ve been losing consistently for a decade (sans 2015 when we still managed to choke away a playoff spot) 

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1 minute ago, Augustiniak said:

If that conversation happened, then no way the jets could have upped the offer, if hill said he’d never sign an extension with the jets.  But that hasn’t been reported yet.

You implied that the Jets and Chiefs could have taken away Hill’s ability to choose, when that’s not the case.  Hill didn’t have a no-trade clause, but he had leverage.  Bullying him into going to the Jets, or giving up more to both the Chiefs and Hill to pacify everyone, if that was even possible, would have been a bad move.

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1 hour ago, Phillyjet said:

Count me as someone who has been impressed by Joe's plan, never overpaying and taking the pain to restore a draft pipeline to the organization.  He was poised to strike for the right players if they were available and he spread it around.  Then came word that he was seriously considering paying a safety Marcus Williams over 15 million, a couple of years after he jettisoned Jamal, and then refused to pay Marcus Maye.  We dodged that bullet and he held.

The Tyreek thing was a whole other level.  A 28 yo Tyreek Hill, who let's face it, his best days are probably behind him, is going to blow up our draft and get the highest contract ever for a WR.  Domestic abuse history.  NY Jets and our history, our media.  This was a cocktail bound to blow up in our faces.  Reeked desperation to get that "player" for Zach.  There are no shortcuts here. THe best teams develop their players through the draft and use FA to supplement needs.  You overpay for your lineman, edge and CB.  At these prices for WRs, it makes no sense, particularly with a now steady pipeline of WRs every year in the draft.

We dodged a bullet again, but the fact that we almost sealed this deal convinces me that Joe is under a lot of pressure to win now.  I for one am happy we have our draft picks.  I would consider double dipping at WR in Rounds 1 and 2-3.  And I am willing to tolerate a 7-9 win season, to get us in position to grow again next year.  Tyreek sounded like a shiny new toy, but he wasn't.  He was a disaster waiting to happen in this market, and on this franchise.

I don't view it as a desperation move at all, in fact I was very encouraged to see him aggressively targeting a top NFL WR in trade.

I've said this several times - I think people put way too much stock into how JD handled his first two seasons here and assumed he was some sort of GM bot that will only act one way. He's not a bot and every season is different.

The team is in a different place this offseason than it was when he arrived. He's now molding a team for his hand picked coaching staff and QB1 going into season 2. He's set the team up nicely with draft picks and cap space exactly for this situation. It's a great time for him to be aggressive in surrounding his young QB 1 with talent.

You want to spend that cap space on surrounding pieces while your QB in on his rookie deal. Holding the cap space doesn't help win games. Spend it. Add talent. Help your young QB develop and win some games.

 

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1 hour ago, Augustiniak said:

I think the beef many have is that maybe the chiefs wouldn’t have allowed hill to make his own decision if the jets offered a first round pick in the deal.

sure, but like the falcons, seahawks, etc. teams like to allow their players to go where they want.  it's a good thing for the team that it shows to prospective players that if the time comes where its time to move on, they would be amenable to finding a spot they want.

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Hill’s best days aren't behind him. He’s still faster than practically every NFL player. Miami made a good trade. For the next 3 years, they’ll be competing with Buffalo for the AFC East title. What’s still TBD is whether the Jets can make enough progress over the remaining part of this offseason and next offseason to compete as well.

JD has made progress but we still have a long way to go before we’re a team as talented as say the 49ers who we are trying to emulate. 

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2 minutes ago, heymangold said:

sure, but like the falcons, seahawks, etc. teams like to allow their players to go where they want.  it's a good thing for the team that it shows to prospective players that if the time comes where its time to move on, they would be amenable to finding a spot they want.

it would be foolish for KC to reject a NYJ proposal that included the 10 pick in the deal just to please a guy they were trading.  

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1 hour ago, kevinc855 said:

Yep, the "we dodged a bullet" is one of the most insane arguments I have seen on this forum. 

OK, so then you are willing to guarantee this guy doesn't get in any off the field trouble at any time over the next 4 years?  Given his history?  

Add to that, the fact that he's 28, with a ton of wear on those tires.  His main assets are his speed and quickness.  I believe he's already lost a bit from his peak performance...but he's so damn good it was hard to notice, but the "experts" say he's lost maybe a half a step already.  How soon until he loses another half a step?  How about some of his quickness?  How about the injury risk to an aging WR who happens to be on the smaller side?  

Time will tell.   

However, what's insane to me is to say this guy is a sure fire lock to be the same player for the next 3-4 years without any off field issues or injuries.   

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2 hours ago, Phillyjet said:

Count me as someone who has been impressed by Joe's plan, never overpaying and taking the pain to restore a draft pipeline to the organization.  He was poised to strike for the right players if they were available and he spread it around.  Then came word that he was seriously considering paying a safety Marcus Williams over 15 million, a couple of years after he jettisoned Jamal, and then refused to pay Marcus Maye.  We dodged that bullet and he held.

The Tyreek thing was a whole other level.  A 28 yo Tyreek Hill, who let's face it, his best days are probably behind him, is going to blow up our draft and get the highest contract ever for a WR.  Domestic abuse history.  NY Jets and our history, our media.  This was a cocktail bound to blow up in our faces.  Reeked desperation to get that "player" for Zach.  There are no shortcuts here. THe best teams develop their players through the draft and use FA to supplement needs.  You overpay for your lineman, edge and CB.  At these prices for WRs, it makes no sense, particularly with a now steady pipeline of WRs every year in the draft.

We dodged a bullet again, but the fact that we almost sealed this deal convinces me that Joe is under a lot of pressure to win now.  I for one am happy we have our draft picks.  I would consider double dipping at WR in Rounds 1 and 2-3.  And I am willing to tolerate a 7-9 win season, to get us in position to grow again next year.  Tyreek sounded like a shiny new toy, but he wasn't.  He was a disaster waiting to happen in this market, and on this franchise.

Love it bro!! Well put. I see things the same way. The great teams NEVER do this deal. I trust JD!

 

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27 minutes ago, Augustiniak said:

it would be foolish for KC to reject a NYJ proposal that included the 10 pick in the deal just to please a guy they were trading.  

That's not the issue.  

The issue is that Hill had the power to either sign a contract extension or not.

Hill could have said to KC and the Jets...OK, fine trade me to NY, but I'm not signing a contract extension. I'll play this year in NY, then become a free agent. 

Surely what the Jets were offering was contingent upon Hill signing the contract extension...so it wasn't a matter of satisfying the Chiefs, or upping the offer by including the 10th pick.  KC had already agreed to the compensation.  Hill had to be on board by signing the contract extension, and if his heart was set on Miami, there was nothing the Jets could do to change that, including offering the 4th pick, the 10th pick and their next 2 First rounders on top of that....

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1 hour ago, Maynard13 said:

Efff tyeeek hill. He’s a temper outburst from being suspended for a year. His attitude, temperament is not worth the risk or the money. Andy was smart to get rid of this guy. Belicheat move if ever you’ve seen one. 

His attitude? Lol. He’s played every season since he was drafted. And made the pro bowl every single year and 3 all pros. 

Stop talking yourself into this being a good thing. We completely missed out. 

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5 minutes ago, MaybeOneDay said:

Surely what the Jets were offering was contingent upon Hill signing the contract extension...so it wasn't a matter of satisfying the Chiefs, or upping the offer by including the 10th pick.  KC had already agreed to the compensation.  Hill had to be on board by signing the contract extension, and if his heart was set on Miami, there was nothing the Jets could do to change that, including offering the 4th pick, the 10th pick and their next 2 First rounders on top of that....

True, although if you're the Jets you could do what the Browns did with Watson and just throw an ungodly amount of fully guaranteed money at him.

Not saying that would have been a good idea, just that there may have been a way.

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1 hour ago, Augustiniak said:

The question to douglas is, if he wanted hill enough to trade multiple 2nd round picks, and was presumably willing to sign him to mega money for a few years, then why wouldn’t he up the offer to make the chiefs decide to not allow hill to decide for himself?  Hill didn’t have a no trade clause, so if douglas wanted to he could have offered more to make the chiefs say to hill, look, we’re getting more from the jets so you don’t have the choice anymore.  

JD's Answer: You have no clue whether Hill would accept an extension. Hill had what the Big Brains in negotiating like to call leverage.

HE DID NOT WANT TO BE A JET.

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3 hours ago, Zachtomims47 said:

His attitude? Lol. He’s played every season since he was drafted. And made the pro bowl every single year and 3 all pros. 

Stop talking yourself into this being a good thing. We completely missed out. 

Let’s see Ray Rice punches his wife and knocks her out and is expelled from NFL. Kapernick kneels down on a knee and gets ostracized from NFL. This piece of human waste commits felony domestic assault and battery by strangulation and walks. Oh geee too bad we missed out, if you’re into that sort of thing. 

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5 hours ago, JiFapono said:

This board cracks me up.  Hill is going to down hill?  lmfao  He's 28, he's played 6 years, that's absolutely nothing for a WR.  Especially one like him who never gets touched, the guy is coming off 111, 1200 and 9 Td's, lmfao .  I love the mental gymnastics people are doing thinking we dodged a bullet here.  Tyreek Hill would instantly be the best WR the Jets have had since Don Maynard.   He would change the entire dynamic of the Jets offense.  

Ultimately it didnt matter, he didnt want to play in NY but the idea the Jets dodged a bullet is next level insecurity. 

 

 

No one called Jet cans smart. There's some here who think our wrs no are good enough 

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6 hours ago, Phillyjet said:

Count me as someone who has been impressed by Joe's plan, never overpaying and taking the pain to restore a draft pipeline to the organization.  He was poised to strike for the right players if they were available and he spread it around.  Then came word that he was seriously considering paying a safety Marcus Williams over 15 million, a couple of years after he jettisoned Jamal, and then refused to pay Marcus Maye.  We dodged that bullet and he held.

The Tyreek thing was a whole other level.  A 28 yo Tyreek Hill, who let's face it, his best days are probably behind him, is going to blow up our draft and get the highest contract ever for a WR.  Domestic abuse history.  NY Jets and our history, our media.  This was a cocktail bound to blow up in our faces.  Reeked desperation to get that "player" for Zach.  There are no shortcuts here. THe best teams develop their players through the draft and use FA to supplement needs.  You overpay for your lineman, edge and CB.  At these prices for WRs, it makes no sense, particularly with a now steady pipeline of WRs every year in the draft.

We dodged a bullet again, but the fact that we almost sealed this deal convinces me that Joe is under a lot of pressure to win now.  I for one am happy we have our draft picks.  I would consider double dipping at WR in Rounds 1 and 2-3.  And I am willing to tolerate a 7-9 win season, to get us in position to grow again next year.  Tyreek sounded like a shiny new toy, but he wasn't.  He was a disaster waiting to happen in this market, and on this franchise.

Just dodging bullets

 

Shoot Up Shots Fired GIF by BrownSugarApp

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5 hours ago, JiFapono said:

This board cracks me up.  Hill is going to down hill?  lmfao  He's 28, he's played 6 years, that's absolutely nothing for a WR.  Especially one like him who never gets touched, the guy is coming off 111, 1200 and 9 Td's, lmfao .  I love the mental gymnastics people are doing thinking we dodged a bullet here.  Tyreek Hill would instantly be the best WR the Jets have had since Don Maynard.   He would change the entire dynamic of the Jets offense.  

Ultimately it didnt matter, he didnt want to play in NY but the idea the Jets dodged a bullet is next level insecurity. 

 

 

Jets fans: 10am Weds Morning: "OMG TYREEK HILL TRAIN BABY! NO MORE CRYING IN MY BATH TONIGHT" 

Jets fans: 11:30am Weds Morning: "This is obviously a good thing we didn't sign him because Joe Douglas is playing 4d chess driving up the price, and I was helping too by pretending to be excited 90 minutes ago."  

shocked the princess bride GIF

 

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6 hours ago, Phillyjet said:

Count me as someone who has been impressed by Joe's plan, never overpaying and taking the pain to restore a draft pipeline to the organization.  He was poised to strike for the right players if they were available and he spread it around.  Then came word that he was seriously considering paying a safety Marcus Williams over 15 million, a couple of years after he jettisoned Jamal, and then refused to pay Marcus Maye.  We dodged that bullet and he held.

The Tyreek thing was a whole other level.  A 28 yo Tyreek Hill, who let's face it, his best days are probably behind him, is going to blow up our draft and get the highest contract ever for a WR.  Domestic abuse history.  NY Jets and our history, our media.  This was a cocktail bound to blow up in our faces.  Reeked desperation to get that "player" for Zach.  There are no shortcuts here. THe best teams develop their players through the draft and use FA to supplement needs.  You overpay for your lineman, edge and CB.  At these prices for WRs, it makes no sense, particularly with a now steady pipeline of WRs every year in the draft.

We dodged a bullet again, but the fact that we almost sealed this deal convinces me that Joe is under a lot of pressure to win now.  I for one am happy we have our draft picks.  I would consider double dipping at WR in Rounds 1 and 2-3.  And I am willing to tolerate a 7-9 win season, to get us in position to grow again next year.  Tyreek sounded like a shiny new toy, but he wasn't.  He was a disaster waiting to happen in this market, and on this franchise.

giphy.gif?cid=82a1493bqgytnoqin30j3dfjl1

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55 minutes ago, Maynard13 said:

Let’s see Ray Rice punches his wife and knocks her out and is expelled from NFL. Kapernick kneels down on a knee and gets ostracized from NFL. This piece of human waste commits felony domestic assault and battery by strangulation and walks. Oh geee too bad we missed out, if you’re into that sort of thing. 

Ray got 2 games before the video came out. 

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5 minutes ago, Maynard13 said:

And then…..

I'm agreeing with you.

The NFL said, "Ray, we heard you hit your wife. She isn't pressing charges, you got 2 games buddy".

Then the elevator video comes out... why did then, and only then, the NFL step up?

If there were a video of Hill's offense, it would change the Tyreek apologist's minds real quick.

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1 minute ago, GangGreen Machine said:

I'm agreeing with you.

The NFL said, "Ray, we heard you hit your wife. She isn't pressing charges, you got 2 games buddy".

Then the elevator video comes out... why did then, and only then, the NFL step up?

If there were a video of Hill's offense, it would change the Tyreek apologist's minds real quick.

Eeeeek is a psycho narcissist. Did you see/hear his press conference upon joining the Fins. You can’t make this stuff up if you wanted to. 

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