JD's Wrong headed and Stubborn Approach

[kevinc855]

Once again, JD is rumored to make a big move that could change the franchise, once again JD does not have the juice to make it happen. 

Rumors are that if JD sweetened the deal with the 10 pick for Hill, it may of been an offer the Chiefs couldn't refuse, but once again JD didn't want to overpay. But here is where JD and his cult following get wrong. We stink. We have won 6 games in the last two seasons. We have a question mark at QB. It's NJ. (No offense to some of you) We have a terrible owner and reputation. It all adds up to the "jets tax" as its known. FA's also are usually not wanting to come here unless they PAY (they did overpay Uzomah and he made the move) 

This is the critical mistake JD makes, he doesn't realize the Jets tax and thinks he still is at some respected franchise like Baltimore. The fact is to be picky, to make hard offers and then withdraw, you need to have something to back it up. The Jets, and JD, a first time GM who has done nothing but lose so far, do not have anything to back their hard negotiating tactics up with. 

Now JD has improved this team, hard not to when you look at our CFL team from last year. But when you look around the AFC, are we even close? We are missing the playmaker impacts we need to win football games. JD will need to pay some players for the Jets to go 10-7 or 11-5 and start to rebuild this teams reputation. A team doesnt gain respectability with "cap space" or "thrifting teams with trades" they turn into Ashyton Davis. Teams gain respectability by winning seasons. 

I hope JD and this stubborn front office re-thinks their approach. 

[docdhc]

2 minutes ago, kevinc855 said:

Once again, JD is rumored to make a big move that could change the franchise, once again JD does not have the juice to make it happen. 

Rumors are that if JD sweetened the deal with the 10 pick for Hill, it may of been an offer the Chiefs couldn't refuse, but once again JD didn't want to overpay. But here is where JD and his cult following get wrong. We stink. We have won 6 games in the last two seasons. We have a question mark at QB. It's NJ. (No offense to some of you) We have a terrible owner and reputation. It all adds up to the "jets tax" as its known. FA's also are usually not wanting to come here unless they PAY (they did overpay Uzomah and he made the move) 

This is the critical mistake JD makes, he doesn't realize the Jets tax and thinks he still is at some respected franchise like Baltimore. The fact is to be picky, to make hard offers and then withdraw, you need to have something to back it up. The Jets, and JD, a first time GM who has done nothing but lose so far, do not have anything to back their hard negotiating tactics up with. 

Now JD has improved this team, hard not to when you look at our CFL team from last year. But when you look around the AFC, are we even close? We are missing the playmaker impacts we need to win football games. JD will need to pay some players for the Jets to go 10-7 or 11-5 and start to rebuild this teams reputation. A team doesnt gain respectability with "cap space" or "thrifting teams with trades" they turn into Ashyton Davis. Teams gain respectability by winning seasons. 

I hope JD and this stubborn front office re-thinks their approach. 

If Hill wanted the Dolphins it didn’t matter what he offered the Chiefs. The deal hinged on being able to sign an extension. Besides, the Chiefs we’re willing to accept the Jets’ offer. 

[Matt39]

Douglas didn’t get Hill because the roster is still bad and Hill knew it. He didn’t want to play with the Jets.

[kmnj]

joe supporters defend him at all costs

they ignore his record--each year is the start of his plan 

they ignore his first draft-so they all busted out (yes we know becton is approaching that territory when the bucs got an all pro)

they give him a pass when he does not get players to come here-his job as gm is to get players to want to come here

they give him a pass for perriman cole davis mims 

We are on a 8 year plan to climb to the 7 win record joe walked into

I see Joe as Mac and Izadick was and until his team actually wins that is all he is a gm that wins 2-4 games

 

[kmnj]

3 minutes ago, docdhc said:

If Hill wanted the Dolphins it didn’t matter what he offered the Chiefs. The deal hinged on being able to sign an extension. Besides, the Chiefs we’re willing to accept the Jets’ offer. 

so then as a gm you do your job and get hill to want to come here-pay him more sell him on your plan , sell him on wilson -if the gm cant get fa players to buy in and misses on many draft picks we are toast 

[CanadaSteve]

8 minutes ago, kevinc855 said:

Once again, JD is rumored to make a big move that could change the franchise, once again JD does not have the juice to make it happen. 

Rumors are that if JD sweetened the deal with the 10 pick for Hill, it may of been an offer the Chiefs couldn't refuse, but once again JD didn't want to overpay. But here is where JD and his cult following get wrong. We stink. We have won 6 games in the last two seasons. We have a question mark at QB. It's NJ. (No offense to some of you) We have a terrible owner and reputation. It all adds up to the "jets tax" as its known. FA's also are usually not wanting to come here unless they PAY (they did overpay Uzomah and he made the move) 

This is the critical mistake JD makes, he doesn't realize the Jets tax and thinks he still is at some respected franchise like Baltimore. The fact is to be picky, to make hard offers and then withdraw, you need to have something to back it up. The Jets, and JD, a first time GM who has done nothing but lose so far, do not have anything to back their hard negotiating tactics up with. 

Now JD has improved this team, hard not to when you look at our CFL team from last year. But when you look around the AFC, are we even close? We are missing the playmaker impacts we need to win football games. JD will need to pay some players for the Jets to go 10-7 or 11-5 and start to rebuild this teams reputation. A team doesnt gain respectability with "cap space" or "thrifting teams with trades" they turn into Ashyton Davis. Teams gain respectability by winning seasons. 

I hope JD and this stubborn front office re-thinks their approach. 

[Columbia Jet Fan]

After digesting the news of yesterday I do agree that JD probably could have forced KC's hand by putting the 10th pick on the table. KC could have told Hill its the Jets or no extension and presumably the Jets get Hill. Maybe Hill tells KC to f off and he'll walk next year (could he be tagged?) and KC chooses to trade to Miami anyway... 

Time will tell if its the right move. 

As far as the Jets tax + state income. These things are transitory. What team have vets all wanted to play for past year or two? The rams. Cali has brutal taxes as well. Same thing in the NBA - players are willing to take the tax to play with good teams. Do the Jets have some serious stink on them? Absolutely - but so have the Bengals historically - and now they are a destination. Even Cleveland became a destination with OBJ (and again with the NBA - the cavs). 

Ultimately no one will choose the Jets over another team right now - but it doesn't mean its permanent. The Jets need to prove they are a competent franchise that can compete, provide a good culture, and pay/reward their guys. I think Saleh and the guys they have chosen in FA and draft can help the foundation of culture changes - but no one gives a sh*t if you're getting blasted and repeatedly picking in the top 5-10. 

[CanadaSteve]

3 minutes ago, kmnj said:

joe supporters defend him at all costs

they ignore his record--each year is the start of his plan 

they ignore his first draft-so they all busted out (yes we know becton is approaching that territory when the bucs got an all pro)

they give him a pass when he does not get players to come here-his job as gm is to get players to want to come here

they give him a pass for perriman cole davis mims 

We are on a 8 year plan to climb to the 7 win record joe walked into

I see Joe as Mac and Izadick was and until his team actually wins that is all he is a gm that wins 2-4 games

 

[kevinc855]

Just now, Columbia Jet Fan said:

After digesting the news of yesterday I do agree that JD probably could have forced KC's hand by putting the 10th pick on the table. KC could have told Hill its the Jets or no extension and presumably the Jets get Hill. Maybe Hill tells KC to f off and he'll walk next year (could he be tagged?) and KC chooses to trade to Miami anyway...

You are correct. We could of taken a much more aggressive approach to make this happen. There is a difference between "making an offer" and going and getting your guy

[CanadaSteve]

8 minutes ago, docdhc said:

 Besides, the Chiefs we’re willing to accept the Jets’ offer. 

Its amazing how the facts get in the way of a good tirade.  

[kevinc855]

1 minute ago, CanadaSteve said:

Its amazing how the facts get in the way of a good tirade.  

read above and educate yourself

[David Harris]

7 minutes ago, kmnj said:

joe supporters defend him at all costs

they ignore his record--each year is the start of his plan 

they ignore his first draft-so they all busted out (yes we know becton is approaching that territory when the bucs got an all pro)

they give him a pass when he does not get players to come here-his job as gm is to get players to want to come here

they give him a pass for perriman cole davis mims 

We are on a 8 year plan to climb to the 7 win record joe walked into

I see Joe as Mac and Izadick was and until his team actually wins that is all he is a gm that wins 2-4 games

 

Ok let’s fire him and start all over, because that works every time.

He took a swing at a game changer. Hill lives in Miami, always wanted to go to Miami. 

[Matt39]

9 minutes ago, kmnj said:

joe supporters defend him at all costs

they ignore his record--each year is the start of his plan 

they ignore his first draft-so they all busted out (yes we know becton is approaching that territory when the bucs got an all pro)

they give him a pass when he does not get players to come here-his job as gm is to get players to want to come here

they give him a pass for perriman cole davis mims 

We are on a 8 year plan to climb to the 7 win record joe walked into

I see Joe as Mac and Izadick was and until his team actually wins that is all he is a gm that wins 2-4 games

 

Blame Douglas for his past blunders, specifically the 2020 draft debacle. But this specific Hill scenario there was nothing he could do if Hill wasn’t willing to sign a deal. Did you want him as a one year rental?

[HawkeyeJet]

Am I the only one who has never heard the term “wrong headed”before in their life?

[ZachWilsonRightArm]

How many times must it be explained? Tyreek Hill is not here because he prefers Miami to New York. The Jets and Chiefs agreed to a deal, the compensation coming back to the Chiefs was a done deal. Why he’s not a Jet is because he wasn’t going to sign a long term extension with the team. 
 

Joe Douglas was willing to trade major draft capital plus make Tyreek Hill the highest paid wide receiver in football.

[derp]

16 minutes ago, docdhc said:

If Hill wanted the Dolphins it didn’t matter what he offered the Chiefs. The deal hinged on being able to sign an extension. Besides, the Chiefs we’re willing to accept the Jets’ offer. 

Miami also has two first round picks in next year’s draft and easily could have upped their offer as well.

[yvj]

Joe is not above criticism but some of you are reaching for the clouds.

[derp]

Also, the most recent example of the “do what it takes to get the deal done” approach is CJ Mosley for $17M a year.

[heymangold]

from everything i've read, the chiefs accepted both trade offers and gave Hill the opportunity to decide if he wanted to goto NY or Miami.  rumors state that Douglas was also willing to give Hills the SAME money.  i can't blame this on douglas, especially since the contract he signed was INSANE.

the trade offers have nothing to do with anything.  hill simply preferred Miami.

[playtowinthegame]

14 minutes ago, kevinc855 said:

Once again, JD is rumored to make a big move that could change the franchise, once again JD does not have the juice to make it happen. 

Rumors are that if JD sweetened the deal with the 10 pick for Hill, it may of been an offer the Chiefs couldn't refuse, but once again JD didn't want to overpay. But here is where JD and his cult following get wrong. We stink. We have won 6 games in the last two seasons. We have a question mark at QB. It's NJ. (No offense to some of you) We have a terrible owner and reputation. It all adds up to the "jets tax" as its known. FA's also are usually not wanting to come here unless they PAY (they did overpay Uzomah and he made the move) 

This is the critical mistake JD makes, he doesn't realize the Jets tax and thinks he still is at some respected franchise like Baltimore. The fact is to be picky, to make hard offers and then withdraw, you need to have something to back it up. The Jets, and JD, a first time GM who has done nothing but lose so far, do not have anything to back their hard negotiating tactics up with. 

Now JD has improved this team, hard not to when you look at our CFL team from last year. But when you look around the AFC, are we even close? We are missing the playmaker impacts we need to win football games. JD will need to pay some players for the Jets to go 10-7 or 11-5 and start to rebuild this teams reputation. A team doesnt gain respectability with "cap space" or "thrifting teams with trades" they turn into Ashyton Davis. Teams gain respectability by winning seasons. 

I hope JD and this stubborn front office re-thinks their approach. 

Excellent well thought out post. We do have to pay that Jets tax to break this cycle of suck. Bobby Trees was another one he missed on, and I don't want to hear the Rams wouldn't have taken a 5th round pick for him instead of a 6th round pick from the Titans just to find the "best fit for Woods."

Bottom line if Joe Douglas doesn't pay that Jets tax and make us a borderline playoff team he'll be gone. He better pray he has the best draft of his life next month. The clock is ticking.

[slats]

Posted this in Warfish’s WR thread, responding to another kronic komplainer, but it works here just as well without me having to put in much more effort: 

I get the frustration, but outside of Cooper, it seems like all of these big WR moves were dictated by the player. And, shockingly, the Jets aren’t a desired destination. For some reason, players don’t want to come to the cold to pay high taxes and lose. It’s hard to turn the culture around in one or two years, especially when the team is pretty barren talent-wise. People are critical of his draft centric approach, but when you’re running a laughingstock franchise, it’s hard to acquire top talent otherwise. The Catch-22 being that it’s hard to stop being a laughingstock when you can’t get talent. The Jets have tried overpaying players who really didn’t want to be here before, and I have yet to see it work. The Jets have more draft capital this year than any other team in the league. Joe needs to build on last year’s draft. If Becton comes back looking like the player he could be as a rookie and Mims contributes anything, that first draft no longer looks so bad.

[docdhc]

17 minutes ago, kmnj said:

so then as a gm you do your job and get hill to want to come here-pay him more sell him on your plan , sell him on wilson -if the gm cant get fa players to buy in and misses on many draft picks we are toast 

I don’t think paying him more than he got from the Dolphins would have been smart. There is a limit to even a great players value within a salary cap. 

[WestCoastMole]

12 hours ago, kevinc855 said:

Once again, JD is rumored to make a big move that could change the franchise, once again JD does not have the juice to make it happen. 

Rumors are that if JD sweetened the deal with the 10 pick for Hill, it may of been an offer the Chiefs couldn't refuse, but once again JD didn't want to overpay. But here is where JD and his cult following get wrong. We stink. We have won 6 games in the last two seasons. We have a question mark at QB. It's NJ. (No offense to some of you) We have a terrible owner and reputation. It all adds up to the "jets tax" as its known. FA's also are usually not wanting to come here unless they PAY (they did overpay Uzomah and he made the move) 

This is the critical mistake JD makes, he doesn't realize the Jets tax and thinks he still is at some respected franchise like Baltimore. The fact is to be picky, to make hard offers and then withdraw, you need to have something to back it up. The Jets, and JD, a first time GM who has done nothing but lose so far, do not have anything to back their hard negotiating tactics up with. 

Now JD has improved this team, hard not to when you look at our CFL team from last year. But when you look around the AFC, are we even close? We are missing the playmaker impacts we need to win football games. JD will need to pay some players for the Jets to go 10-7 or 11-5 and start to rebuild this teams reputation. A team doesnt gain respectability with "cap space" or "thrifting teams with trades" they turn into Ashyton Davis. Teams gain respectability by winning seasons. 

I hope JD and this stubborn front office re-thinks their approach. 

You are confusing two issues.

1) The Chiefs told Hill's Agent (Drew Rosenhaus) to set up the trade. Rosie found the Jets and the Phish. The compensation package to KC was set. The Chiefs found both proposals acceptable. They had nothing to do with the deal falling through.

2) The contract proposals MAY and I repeat MAY have played a role in which deal Hill accept. What is far more likely is Hill wanted to go to Miami and accepted less money from the Phish. The fact of the matter Hill is a Dirtbag and the contract JD offered Hill will have been just the start of the payment the Jets would be making to secure Hills service.

The deal is done and Hill ain't with the Jets. JD took his best shot without emptying the Jets coffers. It's time to move on.

[bitonti]

Jd is doing a great job by Woody's standards. Keep the team under the cap, sign cheap bums like tevin Coleman etc 

Winners do not get paid any more than losers. Woody just needs jd to keep the lights on while he buys Chelsea. 

[Augustiniak]

1 minute ago, slats said:

Posted this in Warfish’s WR thread, responding to another kronic komplainer, but it works here just as well without me having to put in much more effort: 

I get the frustration, but outside of Cooper, it seems like all of these big WR moves were dictated by the player. And, shockingly, the Jets aren’t a desired destination. For some reason, players don’t want to come to the cold to pay high taxes and lose. It’s hard to turn the culture around in one or two years, especially when the team is pretty barren talent-wise. People are critical of his draft centric approach, but when you’re running a laughingstock franchise, it’s hard to acquire top talent otherwise. The Catch-22 being that it’s not to stop being a laughingstock when you can’t get talent. The Jets have tried overpaying players who really didn’t want to be here before, and I have yet to see it work.  The Jets have more draft capital this year than any other team in the league. Joe needs to build on last year’s draft. If Becton comes back looking like the player he could be as a rookie and Mims contributes anything, that first draft no longer looks so bad.

The jets are entrenched in the reputations of 1) sucking, 2) being a defensive oriented team, and 3) the buttfumble.  That’s how the league perceives the jets.  They haven’t drafted a wr (or rb) in the first round in 20 years.  Every good wr on the jets during this time has been imported.  The jets are going to have to draft themselves out of these reputations and fix the offense before any good wr wants to come here.

[jetblue95]

how dare joe not blow all the draft capital and cap space on hill.

if only he had made a godfather-like offer the chiefs couldn't refuse (why not 4&10 plus next year's #1), and pay hill $40 million...scratch that...$50 million a year guaranteed, he could have landed him.

 

 

[TuscanyTile2]

26 minutes ago, kevinc855 said:

Once again, JD is rumored to make a big move that could change the franchise, once again JD does not have the juice to make it happen. 

Rumors are that if JD sweetened the deal with the 10 pick for Hill, it may of been an offer the Chiefs couldn't refuse, but once again JD didn't want to overpay. But here is where JD and his cult following get wrong. We stink. We have won 6 games in the last two seasons. We have a question mark at QB. It's NJ. (No offense to some of you) We have a terrible owner and reputation. It all adds up to the "jets tax" as its known. FA's also are usually not wanting to come here unless they PAY (they did overpay Uzomah and he made the move) 

This is the critical mistake JD makes, he doesn't realize the Jets tax and thinks he still is at some respected franchise like Baltimore. The fact is to be picky, to make hard offers and then withdraw, you need to have something to back it up. The Jets, and JD, a first time GM who has done nothing but lose so far, do not have anything to back their hard negotiating tactics up with. 

Now JD has improved this team, hard not to when you look at our CFL team from last year. But when you look around the AFC, are we even close? We are missing the playmaker impacts we need to win football games. JD will need to pay some players for the Jets to go 10-7 or 11-5 and start to rebuild this teams reputation. A team doesnt gain respectability with "cap space" or "thrifting teams with trades" they turn into Ashyton Davis. Teams gain respectability by winning seasons. 

I hope JD and this stubborn front office re-thinks their approach. 

Tyreek is a FA at the end of the year.  JD wasn't going to give up a bunch of picks for 1 year of him, only to see him sign in Miami next year anyway.  Signing the extension was part of the trade.  Tyreek chose Miami.

As far as a "Jets tax", probably some of it involves actual taxes.  No state income tax in Miami (e.g. pretty sure Derek Jeter made Florida his residence despite playing for the Yankees all those years).  Also, NY has cold weather while Miami is hot (though I hate the humidity there).  Also, you get way more for your money in Miami as opposed to NY.  Plus Florida is a much freer state (politically) than NY (no mask mandates, etc).  That could come into play again in the fall.

 

[jetblue95]

6 minutes ago, playtowinthegame said:

Excellent well thought out post. We do have to pay that Jets tax to break this cycle of suck. Bobby Trees was another one he missed on, and I don't want to hear the Rams wouldn't have taken a 5th round pick for him instead of a 6th round pick from the Titans just to find the "best fit for Woods."

Bottom line if Joe Douglas doesn't pay that Jets tax and make us a borderline playoff team he'll be gone. He better pray he has the best draft of his life next month. The clock is ticking.

 

you may not want to hear it (i imagine my toddler sticking her fingers in her ear and going blah blah blah), but the rams let woods pick his destination

 

https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/33579498/robert-woods-says-quickly-decided-tennessee-titans-given-choice

NASHVILLE, Tenn. -- It all came together perfectly for the Tennessee Titans and former Los Angeles Rams wide receiver Robert Woods.

The Titans desperately needed a veteran wide receiver after they released Julio Jones, and Woods was in need of a new team after the Rams signed free-agent wideout Allen Robinson.

The Rams gave Woods the opportunity to choose where he'd suit up next and, although there were a few teams he liked, Woods quickly decided he wanted to be traded to the Titans.

"They told me I'd have a say in where I'd be traded," Woods said at his introductory news conference. "I did my research and spoke with past players that were here. And just having a relationship with Todd Downing and Rob Moore already from being in Buffalo. Then Derrick Henry, Ryan Tannehill, A.J. Brown ... they're a top-performing team and the Coach of the Year [Mike Vrabel], so joining this team is beneficial for my career.

 

[docdhc]

21 minutes ago, kmnj said:

joe supporters defend him at all costs

they ignore his record--each year is the start of his plan 

they ignore his first draft-so they all busted out (yes we know becton is approaching that territory when the bucs got an all pro)

they give him a pass when he does not get players to come here-his job as gm is to get players to want to come here

they give him a pass for perriman cole davis mims 

We are on a 8 year plan to climb to the 7 win record joe walked into

I see Joe as Mac and Izadick was and until his team actually wins that is all he is a gm that wins 2-4 games

 

He signed quite a few good players these last 2 years, the pro bowl guard, 2 solid tight ends, 2 young hopefully ascending db’s. Lawson and Davis last year who hopefully will be healthy. Your right in that they have to translate into more wins this year but I think that the narrative that he can’t get players to come here is unfair. 

[TuscanyTile2]

6 minutes ago, slats said:

Posted this in Warfish’s WR thread, responding to another kronic komplainer, but it works here just as well without me having to put in much more effort: 

I get the frustration, but outside of Cooper, it seems like all of these big WR moves were dictated by the player. And, shockingly, the Jets aren’t a desired destination. For some reason, players don’t want to come to the cold to pay high taxes and lose. It’s hard to turn the culture around in one or two years, especially when the team is pretty barren talent-wise. People are critical of his draft centric approach, but when you’re running a laughingstock franchise, it’s hard to acquire top talent otherwise. The Catch-22 being that it’s hard to stop being a laughingstock when you can’t get talent. The Jets have tried overpaying players who really didn’t want to be here before, and I have yet to see it work.  The Jets have more draft capital this year than any other team in the league. Joe needs to build on last year’s draft. If Becton comes back looking like the player he could be as a rookie and Mims contributes anything, that first draft no longer looks so bad.

If what you're saying is true then building through the draft is the wise move for this franchise.  Honestly, I think it's almost a necessity that we acquire more draft picks for next season considering the holes/lack of depth this team has.

[TuscanyTile2]

1 minute ago, jetblue95 said:

And just having a relationship with Todd Downing and Rob Moore already from being in Buffalo

That "Rob Moore"?  The one we took who ended up costing us Favre?!  Lol

[chirorob]

Can I rename this thread "Kevin's Wrong headed and Stubborn Approach"?

Hill wanted to be in Miami, and would not sign an extension in NJ.  The deal was fine, but would you trade multiple draft picks for a 1 year player?

[chirorob]

3 minutes ago, TuscanyTile2 said:

As far as a "Jets tax", probably some of it involves actual taxes.  No state income tax in Miami (e.g. pretty sure Derek Jeter made Florida his residence despite playing for the Yankees all those years).  Also, NY has cold weather while Miami is hot (though I hate the humidity there).  Also, you get way more for your money in Miami as opposed to NY.  Plus Florida is a much freer state (politically) than NY (no mask mandates, etc).  That could come into play again in the fall.

 

For professional athletes, they pay state taxes in every state they play a game, where they live doesn't really factor.

So, if you're a Dolphin, but play 1 game in NE, 1 game in NJ, and 1 game in NY, you have to pay state tax for the game check to each of those states.  A work around is the bonus money is only paid in the state you live, but it makes doing taxes a pain in the butt as you may owe state income tax in 5 or 6 different states.

[ZachEY]

35 minutes ago, kevinc855 said:

Rumors are that if JD sweetened the deal with the 10 pick for Hill, it may of been an offer the Chiefs couldn't refuse

Had we made this move, we would have weakened our draft position, had the highest paid WR in the NFL, and still been, at best, the 11th best team in our 16 team conference heading into the season.

Not overpaying for Hill was the right move, even if it was the less fun move.

[NYJ37/12]

Miami is two years ahead of us in the rebuild, they are the better team. Giving away tons of draft capital and a major cap hit for a 28 yr old wr is not the right move for the Jets at this point.  An exciting player and certainly a ticket seller, but not the right time.

Jets need to continue and build the line on both sides, stick with the plan and it will all come together.