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JD's Wrong headed and Stubborn Approach


kevinc855
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52 minutes ago, David Harris said:

Ok let’s fire him and start all over, because that works every time.

He took a swing at a game changer. Hill lives in Miami, always wanted to go to Miami. 

A person in their 20’s prefers to live in Miami over Florahm Park, NJ. This and more at 10PM.

The tax thing is overblown. We have to pay more for players because we suck. The Rams and 49ers dont have issues attracting FA. The Ravens and Pats dont have issues.

Teams that suck have issues. Texas has zero income tax. If you’re the Houston Texans, good luck getting FAs.  

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10 minutes ago, Biggs said:

I'm not a defender or against JD.  I'm not sure the Hill move was the right move.  Based on the offer it appears we wanted Hill badly and had a deal with KC.  

Watson told Cleveland he wasn't interested.  Cleveland got off their backsides got on a plane and sold him the deal.   I'm a little dissapointed that JD, Saleh and even Zach couldn't stall him for 24 hours gotten their asses on a plane and sold him on the Jets.  If anything the reason to question JD is why he can't sell the Jets against a team like Miami with a second rate QB.  

The reality is they wanted him and they made a competetive offer.  JD lost the sale to a division opponent.  Frankly that says something about the Jets organization from top to bottom.  

JD all gas means all gas.  Get it done when you're all in.  

So what was Douglas supposed to do? Give Hill a four year, $125M fully guaranteed contract? He’ll be 29 next year. 
 
I’m also glad we didn’t make that Watson deal. We’ll see how that works out for Cleveland. A lot of teams right now trying to emulate the Rams. I suspect that after this year there will be a few new cautionary tales. Watson and Hill could easily be two of them. 

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3 minutes ago, Biggs said:

Eisen makes a reasonable argument for why not getting him is okay.  It's not a defense of our GM who was all in and failed to land him.  

Hill trains in FL, hangs in FL, wants to live in FL.

JD didnt fail here, NJ vs FL lost out because the FL attraction couldn't be made up by pointing to a better roster.  We're rebuilding and for someone who prefers FL, weren't winning out

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13 minutes ago, Biggs said:

If JD and the Jets staff can't sell top players to come here they aren't the right people to run the organizaton.  Nothing wrong with building through the draft but if you're going to make a move don't let Miami look like a better place to play.

Well, they couldn’t do it here apparently. 

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10 minutes ago, Biggs said:

Eisen makes a reasonable argument for why not getting him is okay.  It's not a defense of our GM who was all in and failed to land him.  

So what is Eisen's handle on JN lol...

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1 hour ago, jetblue95 said:

 

do you have a link to these "rumors"?

 

Of course not.  He didnt need to sweeten the deal, KC accepted the deal he already offered and left it to Hill who wants to live and play in FL.

If we made the deal sweeter and KC said screw what Hill wants it would have become a one year rental at an even higher cost.  Thats what some of these negative Nancys are advocating.  For a team thats not ready to win

Its like they dont care about whats best for the team, just want to win an offseason 

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5 minutes ago, slats said:

So what was Douglas supposed to do? Give Hill a four year, $125M fully guaranteed contract? He’ll be 29 next year. 
 
I’m also glad we didn’t make that Watson deal. We’ll see how that works out for Cleveland. A lot of teams right now trying to emulate the Rams. I suspect that after this year there will be a few new cautionary tales. Watson and Hill could easily be two of them. 

Two different issues.  You don't want him but JD did badly.  JD was obviously willing to give him a huge deal and give up draft capital.  My point isn't that Hill would have been a great move.  My point is if JD wanted him as bad as he did, get off your fat ass, get on a plane and sell the deal.

He wanted to play in Miami.  Miami won NJ lost.  Does Hill even know how great he could live in NY and what that his ability to earn if he's great in NY compared to Miami?  Did anyone from the Jets even try to sell him on NY over Miami? 

Anyone who owns a business that runs on sales knows that their are a million reasons for their competitor to get the order.  It's not just about the trade value, the contract value it's a sell job.  The metro NYC area has a lifestyle that if you're rich Miami can't even begin to approach.  It also has earning potential out of football that's off the charts.  

There are people who are on this board who would rather live in Jacksonville because their 120 million would be taxed less than it would be in Manhattan.  What's the point of having a 120 million if you have to live in Jaxonville or Miami.  It's a nice town to have a second home to go to for a couple of months a year.  It doesn't even remotely compare to being rich in NYC.   

 

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1 hour ago, kevinc855 said:

 

Rumors are that if JD sweetened the deal with the 10 pick for Hill, it may of been an offer the Chiefs couldn't refuse, but once again JD didn't want to overpay. 

 

common Kevin just stop it. i like you but your starting to get to Sar like trolling now when you ignore facts.

JD could have gave up the entire 2022 draft and KC would have traded Hill to us and then Hill would have left next year and went to Miami anyway cause HILL DID NOT WANT TO COME HERE!!!!!

 

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5 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

Of course not.  He didnt need to sweeten the deal, KC accept the deal he already offered and left it to Hill who wants to live and play in FL.

If we made the deal sweeter and KC said screw what Hill wants it would have become a one year rental at an even higher cost.  Thats what some of these negative Nancys are advocating.  For a team thats not ready to win

Its like they dont care about whats best for the team, just want to win an offseason 

Total assumption that we couldn't sign him to a long term deal.  Are you defending JD or do you think he's incompetent to get a deal with a player he's trading for?

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1 hour ago, kmnj said:

joe supporters defend him at all costs

they ignore his record--each year is the start of his plan 

they ignore his first draft-so they all busted out (yes we know becton is approaching that territory when the bucs got an all pro)

they give him a pass when he does not get players to come here-his job as gm is to get players to want to come here

they give him a pass for perriman cole davis mims 

We are on a 8 year plan to climb to the 7 win record joe walked into

I see Joe as Mac and Izadick was and until his team actually wins that is all he is a gm that wins 2-4 games

 

You are what your record says you are.

Faith and hope is one thing.  I absolutely hope JD's plan comes to fruition, because I do live his trades, and I do like his "build from the draft" philosophy.

But the record speaks for itself.  Most of his FA moves have failed.  His first draft is mostly fails.  His QB was a fail his rookie year.  And he's got a 4 and a 2 win season as his resume so far, if we (as his fans demand) don't count his late-hire-date Gase year as "his" record.

So, with that said, we all know he's not going anywhere.  He's got 2022, at minimum.  He almost assuredly has 2023 as well before Ownership would even contemplate a change.

So lets see what he puts on the field in 2022, and go from there.  If we're a 4 win team again, that is unacceptable, and he'll be on the hotseat.  If he's a 7 or 8 or 9 win team, then frankly he's not likely to be under much pressure in 2023 beyond "keep improving".

So, we'll see.  He is a hell of a trader, but as with most of our recent GM's, I don't think he's a draft whiz (or our scouting dept. sucks, always hard to parse out who really is to blame, even if the GM is ultimately responsible regardless).

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I don' get why people think so strongly they are right. Half of us will be wrong in a few years when the outcome is clear. Starting threads and going over every single other one trouncing your opinion isn't going to change anything, it just gets annoying. We know what you think, there's no need to make 50 new threads about it.

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The same people who write up these kinds of tirades are the same ones who would crucify JD if he did it because he spent too much and then further crucify him if the player isn't #1 in the league and then further crucify him for having spent too much and not giving that player more support. There is no satisfying these posters.

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8 minutes ago, Biggs said:

The metro NYC area has a lifestyle that if you're rich Miami can't even begin to approach.  It also has earning potential out of football that's off the charts.  

There are people who are on this board who would rather live in Jacksonville because their 120 million would be taxed less than it would be in Manhattan.  What's the point of having a 120 million if you have to live in Jaxonville or Miami.  It's a nice town to have a second home to go to for a couple of months a year.  It doesn't even remotely compare to being rich in NYC.   

 

 

are you seriously equating living in miami with living in jacksonville?  other than both being in the state of florida, they are nothing alike.

i say this as someone born in NY (LI) and who has lived in manhattan for almost 30 years, but living in miami is very, very appealing for young, rich, professional athletes.  on top of the weather (especially for someone like hill who is from the south) and the tax situation, there are tons of super luxury, high end places to live, play, eat, party, etc...

hill lives in miami in the off-season.  he's been in the league long enough to know what NY has to offer.  NY is great.  i love living here.  but it is beyond naive to think that an uber rich young athlete like hill could just be "sold" on living in NY over miami if only joe flew down to "sell him" on the city.

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19 minutes ago, Biggs said:

Total assumption that we couldn't sign him to a long term deal.  Are you defending JD or do you think he's incompetent to get a deal with a player he's trading for?

You know, sometimes a player who is given the option and who wants to live and play in FL just cant be talked out of it.  He offered the same incentive to the player and rumored would have offered more $$.  The trade of our seconds, point wise was a slightly better offer to KC who accepted both deals and would have traded Hill to either team.  So other the the same old rant, what was incompetent about his offer?  You wanted him to give up so many picks that KC couldn't refuse?  And for the JD to step back and not include the "he has to redo his deal before we trade for him" request.  The same thing the fins requested?

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25 minutes ago, Maxman said:

Maybe Douglas new that the # 10 pick was too much and he wanted to do this if the price is right.

If he gave up a first you would have a thread up complaining about that.

 

It was too much, our 2 seconds beats out the fish offer on the value chart.  But he had to resign for the Jets to trade and Hill wanted to go to FL.  KC accepted the deal so we should have offered more is an interesting take by some

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2 hours ago, kevinc855 said:

Once again, JD is rumored to make a big move that could change the franchise, once again JD does not have the juice to make it happen. 

Rumors are that if JD sweetened the deal with the 10 pick for Hill, it may of been an offer the Chiefs couldn't refuse, but once again JD didn't want to overpay. But here is where JD and his cult following get wrong. We stink. We have won 6 games in the last two seasons. We have a question mark at QB. It's NJ. (No offense to some of you) We have a terrible owner and reputation. It all adds up to the "jets tax" as its known. FA's also are usually not wanting to come here unless they PAY (they did overpay Uzomah and he made the move) 

This is the critical mistake JD makes, he doesn't realize the Jets tax and thinks he still is at some respected franchise like Baltimore. The fact is to be picky, to make hard offers and then withdraw, you need to have something to back it up. The Jets, and JD, a first time GM who has done nothing but lose so far, do not have anything to back their hard negotiating tactics up with. 

Now JD has improved this team, hard not to when you look at our CFL team from last year. But when you look around the AFC, are we even close? We are missing the playmaker impacts we need to win football games. JD will need to pay some players for the Jets to go 10-7 or 11-5 and start to rebuild this teams reputation. A team doesnt gain respectability with "cap space" or "thrifting teams with trades" they turn into Ashyton Davis. Teams gain respectability by winning seasons. 

I hope JD and this stubborn front office re-thinks their approach. 

Dumbest post I have read in a while, just completely ignores all facts. Continue hating JD though.

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1 hour ago, docdhc said:

I don’t think Lawson, Corey Davis, Tomlinson, Uzomah, Conklin, Reed, Whitehead qualify as superstars but they aren’t cheap bums either. He was also willing to pay big money for Hill. He’s signing solid players and improving the team which doesn’t fit your narrative. 

We went from one of the teams with the most cap space to $19M under the cap.  We need $14-$15M for rookie deals, leaving $4-$5M for another deal or an in season deal.

Facts mean nothing when you have a story to sell.  Even when the facts say its dead wrong

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4 minutes ago, jetblue95 said:

 

are you seriously equating living in miami with living in jacksonville?  other than both being in the state of florida, they are nothing alike.

i say this as someone born in NY (LI) and who has lived in manhattan for almost 30 years, but living in miami is very, very appealing for young, rich, professional athletes.  on top of the weather (especially for someone like hill who is from the south) and the tax situation, there are tons of super luxury, high end places to live, play, eat, party, etc...

hill lives in miami in the off-season.  he's been in the league long enough to know what NY has to offer.  NY is great.  i love living here.  but it is beyond naive to think that an uber rich young athlete like hill could just be "sold" on living in NY over miami if only joe flew down to "sell him" on the city.

Miami is a blast.  Love going down there for a week or two in the winter.   It's a second rate city compared to NYC.  That's not even debatable or the point.

There is absolutely no shot in hell where if I had a deal and was told it's between me and someone else I wouldn't get off my ass and fly in to see him or bring him in to see me before he decided.   Get off your fat ass and sell it.  There's a passive, limp Richard don't call me Dick approach that just smells Jetsy to me.  Go down fighting.

He wanted to go to Miami sorry jetblue95 nothing you can do about it.  Aw that's sucks gee he wanted to live in Miami.   You think Bob Kraft would go down like that?  He would have gassed up the Jet and met Hill at a tanning salon in Miami and had a contract with him. 

 

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21 minutes ago, Maxman said:

OMG!

Jets fans rooting for the Jets, ON A JETS SITE.

STOP THE PRESSES.  ALERT THE AUTHORITIES.

Thank you for bringing this to our attention. Not sure how a Jets fan site has people rooting for the Jets on it.  WE WILL GET THIS FIXED IMMEDIATELY.

Nobody can argue, best owner and moderators on the interwebz here at JetNation.  What other owner of a fan site would do this for this users?  Ban the cheering of the team the site was built to support?  It's brilliant.  It's next level thinking like this, right here that has made this place so successful.  We all should be thankful to have the opportunity to learn from you, Maxman.  Let me be the first to say, thank you!

 

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7 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

You know, sometimes a player who is given the option and who wants to live and play in FL just cant be talked out of it.  He offered the same incentive to the player and rumored would have offered more $$.  The trade of our seconds, point wise was a slightly better offer to KC who accepted both deals and would have traded Hill to either team.  So other the the same old rant, what was incompetent about his offer?  You wanted him to give up so many picks that KC couldn't refuse?  And for the JD to step back and not include the "he has to redo his deal before we trade for him" request.  The same thing the fins requested?

And then if Douglas gave up the 4 or the 10 for Hill, three years from now, when Hill is declining and some receiver drafted somewhere in the first round of the 2022 draft is a superstar, these same posters will complain about how Douglas missed out on X by trading for that bum Hill.  That is how these people think. They look backwards and proclaim how smart they are.  

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2 minutes ago, Biggs said:

Miami is a blast.  Love going down there for a week or two in the winter.   It's a second rate city compared to NYC.  That's not even debatable or the point.

There is absolutely no shot in hell where if I had a deal and was told it's between me and someone else I wouldn't get off my ass and fly in to see him or bring him in to see me before he decided.   Get off your fat ass and sell it.  There's a passive, limp Richard don't call me Dick approach that just smells Jetsy to me.  Go down fighting.

He wanted to go to Miami sorry jetblue95 nothing you can do about it.  Aw that's sucks gee he wanted to live in Miami.   You think Bob Kraft would go down like that?  He would have gassed up the Jet and met Hill at a tanning salon in Miami and had a contract with him. 

 

Why isn't Hill a Patriot today then? They need receivers more than the Jets do. 

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11 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

You know, sometimes a player who is given the option and who wants to live and play in FL just cant be talked out of it.  He offered the same incentive to the player and rumored would have offered more $$.  The trade of our seconds, point wise was a slightly better offer to KC who accepted both deals and would have traded Hill to either team.  So other the the same old rant, what was incompetent about his offer?  You wanted him to give up so many picks that KC couldn't refuse?  And for the JD to step back and not include the "he has to redo his deal before we trade for him" request.  The same thing the fins requested?

He didn't fly down to see him or send a Jet to fly him up to see him.  You don't do this over the phone when the player has multiple choice.   I have no problem with him going to Miami.  I have a problem with all gas and not getting off your chair.

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10 minutes ago, johnnysd said:

Dumbest post I have read in a while, just completely ignores all facts. Continue hating JD though.

This team is on track to finish 4th in their division next year but thats ok with you

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47 minutes ago, slats said:

So what was Douglas supposed to do? Give Hill a four year, $125M fully guaranteed contract? He’ll be 29 next year. 
 
I’m also glad we didn’t make that Watson deal. We’ll see how that works out for Cleveland. A lot of teams right now trying to emulate the Rams. I suspect that after this year there will be a few new cautionary tales. Watson and Hill could easily be two of them. 

You make an excellent point, however, I need to see the other side of the coin as well. 

Let's take Buffalo for example, Josh Allen in my opinion did NOT take that major step forward before the Stefon Diggs deal. Of course you can get a true number one in the draft, conversely, they usually (exceptions do exist) do not become those nasty, overpowering, cocky receivers which make any quarterback look better and free up other receivers in year one. I think that no matter who the Jets draft, they will have to bite the bullet and trade for such a receiver with NFL experience. 

Of course you should take my opinion with a grain of salt because I am no football mastermind, but it is how I see things. 

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43 minutes ago, Biggs said:

Two different issues.  You don't want him but JD did badly.  JD was obviously willing to give him a huge deal and give up draft capital.  My point isn't that Hill would have been a great move.  My point is if JD wanted him as bad as he did, get off your fat ass, get on a plane and sell the deal.

He wanted to play in Miami.  Miami won NJ lost.  Does Hill even know how great he could live in NY and what that his ability to earn if he's great in NY compared to Miami?  Did anyone from the Jets even try to sell him on NY over Miami? 

Anyone who owns a business that runs on sales knows that their are a million reasons for their competitor to get the order.  It's not just about the trade value, the contract value it's a sell job.  The metro NYC area has a lifestyle that if you're rich Miami can't even begin to approach.  It also has earning potential out of football that's off the charts.  

There are people who are on this board who would rather live in Jacksonville because their 120 million would be taxed less than it would be in Manhattan.  What's the point of having a 120 million if you have to live in Jaxonville or Miami.  It's a nice town to have a second home to go to for a couple of months a year.  It doesn't even remotely compare to being rich in NYC.   

 

If you have 120 million you live everywhere and anywhere you want. This isn’t the 80’s anymore where NYC is the center of everything. Hell Brady calls Miami his home now. When was the last time the Knicks signed anyone relevant? There are a sh*t ton of massively rich people who prefer Florida to Manhattan. It is what it is.

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1 minute ago, Joe Willie White Shoes said:

Why isn't Hill a Patriot today then? They need receivers more than the Jets do. 

They didn't want him at the price the Jets and Dolphins were willing to pay.  If they did he probably would be.

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8 minutes ago, Biggs said:

Miami is a blast.  Love going down there for a week or two in the winter.   It's a second rate city compared to NYC.  That's not even debatable or the point.

There is absolutely no shot in hell where if I had a deal and was told it's between me and someone else I wouldn't get off my ass and fly in to see him or bring him in to see me before he decided.   Get off your fat ass and sell it.  There's a passive, limp Richard don't call me Dick approach that just smells Jetsy to me.  Go down fighting.

He wanted to go to Miami sorry jetblue95 nothing you can do about it.  Aw that's sucks gee he wanted to live in Miami.   You think Bob Kraft would go down like that?  He would have gassed up the Jet and met Hill at a tanning salon in Miami and had a contract with him. 

 

 

i guess no coffee for joe d

lol at thinking joe d, or any GM, is going to sell tyreek hill on living in their city when his own agent lives in miami and tyreek already lives in florida

maybe joe could have taken him on a tour of the empire state building and on a circle liner around manhattan...

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