JD's Wrong headed and Stubborn Approach

[Embrace the Suck]

[Mogglez]

17 minutes ago, bitonti said:

Jonnu Smith was the TE 2 in New England he'd be the TE1 here. 

it's not purely a matter of production. Tyler Conklin had 60 catches does that make him 3x the player of Jonnu Smith? 

Ask 32 NFL coaches who they'd rather have Jonnu Smith or Ryan Griffin I doubt you'd find many Griffin takers 

Yes, Tyler Conklin out-producing Jonnu Smith last year makes him better than Jonnu Smith, going into next season.

Jonnu Smith got a 50 million dollar contract. Hunter Henry got a 37.4 million dollar contract.  Jonnu Smith is the TE2 because he sucks, not because Hunter Henry was signed to be the TE1.

Again, a little bit of research goes a long way.

[Joe Willie White Shoes]

37 minutes ago, bitonti said:

Jonnu Smith was the TE 2 in New England he'd be the TE1 here. 

it's not purely a matter of production. Tyler Conklin had 60 catches does that make him 3x the player of Jonnu Smith? 

Ask 32 NFL coaches who they'd rather have Jonnu Smith or Ryan Griffin I doubt you'd find many Griffin takers 

 

Corey Davis and Jonnu Smith are both disappointing FA's from last season. I'd rather the 2022 Jets have both, even though their 21 production dipped

 

Smith didn't produce TE 1 numbers when he was the TE 1 for Tennessee.  He has been a 30/300/3 guy his entire career.  I'll take the two TEs added by JD in free agency this year over Smith any day.  I never mentioned Griffin. Who cares about his production last year ?  Corey Davis was disappointing because he got hurt and had too many drops (which has not been a problem for him). If Davis stays on the field, he'll earn his $12.5 million per contract.  60  grabs by Conklin makes him a much better investment than Smith.  Will Smith ever play up to his contract?  Doubtful.   But you and the other Jets Karens just want to see money spent like it is Madden. And if JD signed Smith last year and  put up 30/300/3, you would be screaming about how JD goes after the wrong guys.   

[bitonti]

Just now, Joe Willie White Shoes said:

 But you and the other Jets Karens just want to see money spent like it is Madden. 

If I'm a Karen then I demand to see the general manager 

[bitonti]

22 minutes ago, Mogglez said:

Yes, Tyler Conklin out-producing Jonnu Smith last year makes him better than Jonnu Smith, going into next season.

If the only way to judge a player is production then Zach wilson is worse than Mike White 

[chirorob]

1 hour ago, Mogglez said:

Next time Rosenhaus wants a favor from Douglas, I’m sure he’s going to remember this.  Tyreek Hill is not his only client.  I can assure you that other teams will take note of that.

The Chiefs will get that same treatment.

I don't know if that was on the Chiefs.

JD contacts Rosenhaus about an extension, who contacts Hill.   Rosenhaus then contacts the Dolphins, who get involved and Hill says he will only go to Miami.   KC may not have had much of an option there.

[MARTIN]

Look dude, you don't know what you are talking about. Just go back to "read-only" mode. Please.

 

[section314]

8 minutes ago, chirorob said:

I don't know if that was on the Chiefs.

JD contacts Rosenhaus about an extension, who contacts Hill.   Rosenhaus then contacts the Dolphins, who get involved and Hill says he will only go to Miami.   KC may not have had much of an option there.

The NFL in the last three weeks has joined the NBA in rarified air.....the second professional league where the inmates are running the asylum. 

[Snell41]

If the only way to judge a player is production then Zach wilson is worse than Mike White 

I mean…. ??‍♂️


Sent from my iPhone using JetNation.com mobile app

[jetsons]

JD's Wrong headed and Stubborn Approach...

going for the all-time negative rep record on a single post... nice ?

[Jets512]

1 hour ago, sciond said:

JD did his job....https://nypost.com/2022/03/24/tyreek-hill-says-he-was-never-picking-the-jets-who/

It sounds like the New York Jets were just a stalking horse.

The Tyreek Hill sweepstakes, in which the Miami Dolphins were ultimately the winner, developed rapidly Wednesday. Reports before the speedy receiver’s trade from Kansas City indicated that the Jets and Dolphins were the finalists, but Hill has disputed the idea that the Jets were ever close at his introductory press conference in Miami.

“How close was I? Who? The Jets?” Hill asked. “I knew I was going to pick Miami no matter what because I’m basically from here, I’m here all the time. This is home for me, for us.”

The Dolphins traded five draft picks, including a first rounder in 2022, to the Chiefs for Hill. They also signed the wideout to a new four-year, $120 million deal.

The Jets reportedly did not include a first rounder in their proposal to the Chiefs, but based on the way draft pick valuation works, their offer that included two second rounders would have been accepted by Kansas City had Hill wanted to play for Gang Green.

Florida has no state income tax, while more than 80 percent of Hill’s $30 million per year deal would be taxed at 10.75 percent in New Jersey – where the Jets play.

Last line tell us what mismanaging of state assets done to prevent us form signing some players as taxes is a huge factor in large contracts. Not one political party only.

Florida gets back over $4 for every $1 they send to the federal government. New York gets back less than 80 cents for every $1 it sends the federal government. Nothing to do with mismanaging assets. Florida is the 3rd biggest "taker" state in the country. It has a ton to do with politics. Not that New York isn't without fault, but that last line is garbage.

[Mogglez]

56 minutes ago, bitonti said:

If the only way to judge a player is production then Zach wilson is worse than Mike White 

Keep the spin going with irrelevant points.  It just looks like deflection.  Especially when your argument is “bad production is ackshully not badddd”.  I’m not discussing White vs Wilson, we’re discussing Jonnu Smith, so let’s stay on topic, yeah? 

First it was we almost landed Jonnu. Except we were the ones who actually backed out.

Then it was, “Would Jonnu have helped Zach Wilson more than Ryan Griffin last year?”  Well, turns out, their production was basically equal so, no, he wouldn’t have.

Then it was “of course his production was bad, he’s the TE2.”  Exxxxxxcept he’s being paid to be TE1, getting TE1 reps, and his production is, still, just poor.

Now it’s “production doesn’t fully measure a players worth.”  Dawg, if I’m paying you 50 million dollars over the course of 4 years, you better f*cking produce more than 1TD and 294 yards.

[Hex]

19 minutes ago, jetsons said:

JD's Wrong headed and Stubborn Approach...

going for the all-time negative rep record on a single post... nice ?

I wonder what the all-time negative record on a single post is

I just looked at the OP and wow

48 is a lot

[Mogglez]

49 minutes ago, chirorob said:

I don't know if that was on the Chiefs.

JD contacts Rosenhaus about an extension, who contacts Hill.   Rosenhaus then contacts the Dolphins, who get involved and Hill says he will only go to Miami.   KC may not have had much of an option there.

KC can then tell Hill: “We have an agreement in place, we’re not breaking that agreement just to accommodate you, a player who doesn’t want to be here.  We’re going to get what we believe is the best value.  If you don’t like that, you can play for us until your contract is up and we can’t tag you any further at 30-31 years old, sit out the season, or you can go to the Jets, who are offering us the most compensation.”

[sciond]

12 hours ago, Jets512 said:

Florida gets back over $4 for every $1 they send to the federal government. New York gets back less than 80 cents for every $1 it sends the federal government. Nothing to do with mismanaging assets. Florida is the 3rd biggest "taker" state in the country. It has a ton to do with politics. Not that New York isn't without fault, but that last line is garbage.

This is propaganda. The truth is people from NY and other areas like it move to Florida with their SS benefits and federal pension because like I said they live in poorly managed states. So in essence NY forces that to happen as taxes are unbearable at that point. Who retires in NY anymore? Not me I bought in Florida preparing to retire there one day and left northeast taxes years ago...like I said though it is not one one parties fault so I don't want to debate the politics of it.

[Coffee Is Great]

This thread is gold. It's like Tyreek tailored his press conference to embarrass OP.

[CanadaSteve]

7 hours ago, nycdan said:

All good unless you are a surgeon or a pilot.

What's the old saying?  If at first you don't succeed, parachuting is not the sport for you.

Which I wasn't.  And, right now, the first draft is looking not good.

LOTS of negatives for a first time GM with COVID, no in-person interviews.  If you look back, I am still happy with many of the picks.  I liked the first three, they just didn't work out (Becton still might, but Mims and Davis have not panned out).  

He bet on a QB with house money....didn't work.  Most don't.  Loved the Cameron Clark pick.  Freak accident, guy retires.  Bryce Hall was a great pick, and Mann has been decent.  

Second draft....looks even better.  

All this aside.   NONE of any of these arguments will matter unless we start winning games.  If we don't win at least 7 games this year, JD's collar, and his CS, will be very hot.  

 

[CanadaSteve]

6 hours ago, Warfish said:

Fair enough, but I don't agree.  They were brought in to play, and the played poorly.  That's a fail.

Good players come from both FA and the Draft.  There is no exclusivity to obtaining them one way or the other.  You (or I) may have a preference, but that's all it is, a preference.

Two years.  His first year doesn't count, or so I'm told.  

GM is not a "learn while you earn" job.  That learning is supposed to be done at the lower front office positions before becoming a GM. 

There is no mulligan period for NFL GM's.

Isn't that what I said when I said "So lets see what he puts on the field in 2022, and go from there."?

That's exactly what I said.

I can't be as fancy as you Warfish breaking it down by each sentence!

Some of the F/A did not work, some did.  I think this new batch will be good.  Time will tell.

I completely disagree with "learn while you earn."  Doesn't matter.  There are elements to learning the position of any job if you have never done it before.  If there isn't a grace period, then its a bad employer....like most employers are!  Call that his first year if you want, since many believed it didn't count.  It counted.  I think he drafted well last year, liked a few of the F/A pick-ups.  Lets see what this year holds.

And I know that is what you said with the last stuff....I was agreeing!!!

 

 

 

[CanadaSteve]

4 hours ago, HawkeyeJet said:

Damn JD ruining everything

 

Hey Kevin.....You told me to read and educate myself.

May I suggest something?

[bitonti]

1 hour ago, Mogglez said:

Keep the spin going with irrelevant points.  It just looks like deflection.  Especially when your argument is “bad production is ackshully not badddd”.  I’m not discussing White vs Wilson, we’re discussing Jonnu Smith, so let’s stay on topic, yeah? 

First it was we almost landed Jonnu. Except we were the ones who actually backed out.

Then it was, “Would Jonnu have helped Zach Wilson more than Ryan Griffin last year?”  Well, turns out, their production was basically equal so, no, he wouldn’t have.

Then it was “of course his production was bad, he’s the TE2.”  Exxxxxxcept he’s being paid to be TE1, getting TE1 reps, and his production is, still, just poor.

Now it’s “production doesn’t fully measure a players worth.”  Dawg, if I’m paying you 50 million dollars over the course of 4 years, you better f*cking produce more than 1TD and 294 yards.

Dude you can't prove a hypothetical situation any more that I can. I be jonnu Smith would produce more in NYJ than he did in NEP. We will never know for sure 

[Mogglez]

30 minutes ago, bitonti said:

Dude you can't prove a hypothetical situation any more that I can. I be jonnu Smith would produce more in NYJ than he did in NEP. We will never know for sure 

I’m not looking to prove a hypothetical.  You are.  Every single point I have brought up has tangible stats to back it up and you’re only arguments have been:

“stats don’t matter when discussing production” (they do).

“he’s supposed to be a TE2” (no he’s not, as evidenced by the contract they gave him).

“his production could have been better here” (yeah, we’ll never know, so you can’t make that argument, so you bringing it up is pointless).

[T0mShane]

2 hours ago, bitonti said:

If the only way to judge a player is production then Zach wilson is worse than Mike White 

This is objectively true.

[Mogglez]

2 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

This is objectively true.

[T0mShane]

1 hour ago, Coffee Is Great said:

This thread is gold. It's like Tyreek tailored his press conference to embarrass OP.

Tyreek Hill: The Jets offered a bunch of draft picks and would have made me the highest paid receiver in football, but I’d rather die than play for that garbage franchise.

Jets Fans: Haha! JD wins again!

[Sammybighead]

It’s amazing how many tiny brained fans can’t understand that this was Hill’s choice and that is the reason he is a dolphin. 

Jets could have given 2x firsts and it wouldn’t matter. KC agreed to a deal but any trade would have been contingent upon Hill signing a deal immediately. If KC forced him to go to the Jets and then Hill refused to sign an extension, all you tiny brained peons who are complaining about JD would have been crying about how we traded 2x firsts for a 1 year rental. 

So seriously, grow a freaking brain already, understand the situation, and move the F on.

[TuscanyTile2]

13 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

This is objectively true.

 

 

 

[Larz]

Getting back to the approach, the main reason GMs are hesitant to try the multi year build through the draft approach is that you usually get fired before the program takes off.  

If woody signed off on a 5 year rebuild, it’s not that crazy an approach, but this is the guy who promised Mangini that he wouldn’t get fired if Bringing in Favre didn’t work, and got fired after winning 9 games.  
 

The elephant in the corner for me is Wilson finished with a 69 rating, a whopping 2 pts ahead of Josh Rosen. 
 

“The plan” Saleh and JD refer to included hiring a first time HC and pairing him with first time play caller and OC and first time play caller and DC and rookie QB with a backup with  couple years in the league but 0 starts.  No camp competition, given the job on draft day. I said it last summer, if any Jets QB pick needed to sit a year  it was Wilson, but nope they threw him into a terrible situation and it showed 
 

The “ my price is my price “ thing bit JD in the Fanny very early, losing out on Hoyer over money. 
 

I don’t know how he can consider the QB situation settled. Bringing back the sane 3 is nuts. 
 

 

[BeaconJet]

11 hours ago, kevinc855 said:

You are correct. We could of taken a much more aggressive approach to make this happen. There is a difference between "making an offer" and going and getting your guy

How much more than $30m a year would you offer Hill to play for the Jets and not his home state Dolphins? Because a substantial overpay is the only way you were getting Hill.
 

Adding picks does nothing - you could force KCs hand but then Hill is a one year rental. 

[Maxman]

9 hours ago, kevinc855 said:

Some of you are just content being 5-12 every year

I know right. Jets fans. Most fans were happy about the 17 game season just to squeeze in that 12th loss.

Good grief.

So many die hard fans. Accusing them of being happy with the losing as comical.

I will give you the advice that my Grandfather Ted gave me. Throw out the corn flakes and pour yourself a new bowl. 

[Maxman]

5 hours ago, bitonti said:

Yes I wanted the Jets to sign Jonnu Smith. You wanted to go through the season with Ryan Griffin and Tyler Kroft? How did that help Zach Wilson's development

the Pats signed Hunter Henry as well of course Smith's production isn't dominant. The Pats won 10 games with a rookie QB last year and blew the Jets out by 20 and 40 respectively. 

 

 

Belichick once beat the Jets with 11 strat-o-matic players. But let's leave him out of the equation.

[Maxman]

9 hours ago, kevinc855 said:

This team is on track to finish 4th in their division next year but thats ok with you

The Dolphins fired a great coach. They have Tua as their QB.  Have you seen their new coach in a presser? If he was in NY he would have been run out of town already.

[Warfish]

2 hours ago, CanadaSteve said:

I can't be as fancy as you Warfish breaking it down by each sentence!

I do it, because like a conversation, I like to respond to each point and not ignore points.  Not trying to be fancy.

2 hours ago, CanadaSteve said:

Some of the F/A did not work, some did.  I think this new batch will be good.  Time will tell.

Time will tell.

2 hours ago, CanadaSteve said:

I completely disagree with "learn while you earn."  Doesn't matter.  There are elements to learning the position of any job if you have never done it before.  If there isn't a grace period, then its a bad employer....like most employers are!

Almost every employer I've worked for had a 1 year probation period.  Prove you're good enough, or you're gone by the end of your 1st year.

JD is now mid-stream in the offseason prepping for his 4th season as GM.  I think any "grace period" is long over at this point.

2 hours ago, CanadaSteve said:

And I know that is what you said with the last stuff....I was agreeing!!!

Sometimes hard to tell online, fair enough. ?

[Coffee Is Great]

1 hour ago, T0mShane said:

Tyreek Hill: The Jets offered a bunch of draft picks and would have made me the highest paid receiver in football, but I’d rather die than play for that garbage franchise.

Jets Fans: Haha! JD wins again!

Or he wanted to play in the city he considers his home, that has great weather, and no state income tax? It's not like Miami has had any success the last 20 years.

[Jet25]

Since JD didn't have pick #10 in the deal for Hill, it seems we're not drafting a WR at #10

 

[slimjasi]

1 minute ago, Jet25 said:

Since JD didn't have pick #10 in the deal for Hill, it seems we're not drafting a WR at #10

 

Can you elaborate on this thought?