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The Merged Trade for Deebo Samuel Thread


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13 hours ago, Barry McCockinner said:

If. If... IF it is true... if it were to happen this is good for Moore. Keeps him from being the gadget guy and hopefully just a crisp route runner that doesn't have to get too many unnecessary carries/sweeps. 

 

I still would like a DK, but if they trade for Deebo they can target a taller WR later.

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5 minutes ago, Stark said:

If. If... IF it is true... if it were to happen this is good for Moore. Keeps him from being the gadget guy and hopefully just a crisp route runner that doesn't have to get too many unnecessary carries/sweeps. 

 

I still would like a DK, but if they trade for Deebo they can target a taller WR later.

I prefer DK as well. Landing Deebo would be a pretty sweet consolation prize though. What taller WR's are you targeting if we land Deebo?

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58 minutes ago, Barry McCockinner said:

I prefer DK as well. Landing Deebo would be a pretty sweet consolation prize though. What taller WR's are you targeting if we land Deebo?

 

while not than much taller I'd start with Burks, but after that Id go Pickens / Ross / Drummond / Tolbert, I guess. If we trade 10 for Deebo we are out of taking a WR until a little later so London, Burks, Watson probably all gone before we'd take one and even Burks. Alec Pierce maybe 

 

As I am typing this I think this is another reason I'd prefer DK in a trade... feels like based on this draft it would work better for other WR's and it being easier to not have to try to find the taller/bigger WR role. 

 

Overall I am still a fan of Burks/London - Pickens/Watson/Ross - Drummond/Tolbert. You can flip the order however you like. Ross prob falls into that 3rd tier based on his pro day numbers

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the problem with Deebo is that he's basically a running back with insane acceleration and a hard hitting style 

guys like that last about 3 years before they get beat up and become average
 

they are both listed at WR but Hill probably has more years than Deebo, even though Deebo is way younger. Players can't take/give hits like that in the NFL and survive very long 

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2 minutes ago, bitonti said:

the problem with Deebo is that he's basically a running back with insane acceleration and a hard hitting style 

guys like that last about 3 years before they get beat up and become average
 

they are both listed at WR but Hill probably has more years than Deebo, even though Deebo is way younger. Players can't take/give hits like that in the NFL and survive very long 

I think you're right but I don't care about the long term?

Can't we just give him what's functionally a 3 yr 75 mil deal? It might be dressed up as a 5 year 130+ mil deal, but with an out after the third year.

What we need is an elite playmaker for the rookie contract/developmental phase of Wilson's deal.

I'm cool with paying that premium up front.

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1 minute ago, bitonti said:

the problem with Deebo is that he's basically a running back with insane acceleration and a hard hitting style 

guys like that last about 3 years before they get beat up and become average
 

they are both listed at WR but Hill probably has more years than Deebo, even though Deebo is way younger. Players can't take/give hits like that in the NFL and survive very long 

I think it's clear that SF (I still think he ultimately stays there) needs to limit his carries. That hybrid running back deal isn't built to last. 

The most underrated thing about Deebo is that he averaged 11.6 yards/target last year. His running ability overshadows his potential as a WR, which I don't think he has even reached. 

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11 minutes ago, RedBeardedSavage said:

I think you're right but I don't care about the long term?

They could do that... Or they could just draft a young receiver rb who isn't beat up in Rd 4 for a tenth of the price. 

 

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3 minutes ago, bitonti said:

They could do that... Or they could just draft a young receiver rb who isn't beat up in Rd 4 for a tenth of the price. 

 

You want London, right?

So you say draft London at 10 > trading 10 + change + big contract?

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7 minutes ago, slimjasi said:

You want London, right?

So you say draft London at 10 > trading 10 + change + big contract?

They want an X. I don't really want London at 10. It's just what I think they're going to do 

Tbh I really like Alec Pierce and George Pickens but not sure if either makes it to rd2.

The trade of 10 is a nice thought but there doesn't seem to be many takers. 

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1 minute ago, bitonti said:

They want an X. I don't really want London at 10. It's just what I think they're going to do 

Tbh I really like Alec Pierce and George Pickens but not sure if either makes it to rd2.

The trade of 10 is a nice thought but there doesn't seem to be many takers. 

Ahhh, ok, I thought you were a big London guy. 

I figured the Jets would lean more towards a Garret Wilson/Jameson Williams because of the potential overall fit in the offense/versatility of each player. A big X makes sense for them, I just wonder if Douglas is cool drafting a slower WR? He's talked about the emphasis on speed before. 

I only included a trade of 10 because I feel like that is what it would take to land a guy like Deebo. I honestly don't think Deebo is getting traded anyway, but maybe I am wrong. 

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15 minutes ago, slimjasi said:

Ahhh, ok, I thought you were a big London guy. 

I figured the Jets would lean more towards a Garret Wilson/Jameson Williams because of the potential overall fit in the offense/versatility of each player. A big X makes sense for them, I just wonder if Douglas is cool drafting a slower WR? He's talked about the emphasis on speed before. 

I only included a trade of 10 because I feel like that is what it would take to land a guy like Deebo. I honestly don't think Deebo is getting traded anyway, but maybe I am wrong. 

I really like J Williams but wonder how much he can help Zach this year. The Jets can't draft a guy top 10 and have him show up week 8 when they are 1-7 or whatever. They need instant help. 

Alex Pierce from Cinci is hugely underrated as a player. My concern is that a team will bite on him late rd1. I also really like George Pickens. But it's a gamble if those guys are there. 

Garrett Wilson i'd be fine with, it's just a small window for Zach to hit - and despite what people want to believe, Zach isn't as accurate as he could be with intermediate throws. It feels like another Moore type. Which is fine but they still lack an X for the offense. Corey Davis is a Y playing X and Moore/Wilson are like very fancy (and versatile) Z's.  

which brings us back to Drake London. He's probably not Mike Evans but he could be Plaxico Burress.  Or a poor man's Keyshawn. A physical guy who can block and win 50/50 balls. the hot route on 3rd and 4. the 15 yard Back shoulder stop routes. The fade route to the corner of the EZ. The Jets' offense doesn't have that player and for whatever reason, I can feel it in my plums that JD wants to help Zach as quickly and easily as possible. 

I don't buy the seperation talk because USC targetted this player 15 times a game, many times he was covered and they threw it to him anyways (and he wins more of those balls than he loses). He has the physical basketball rebounding stuff (was on the USC BB team) and will present matchup problems for any DB that tries to out physical him. Even some linebackers. He's just huge and that's not going to go away at the NFL level. (He actually looks like Julio Jones, not as rocked up or diesel but a high cut dude who you wonder 'getting off the bus' is that a DE?) 

Downside he's got no YAC, goes down easy, and the ankle injury. They still need an X for their offense. Maybe that Jets/London talk is all smoke but there seems to be alot of it. 

If you want to know my personal draft "binkie" this year it's Jeremy Ruckert. The guy who they could draft and i'd be super psyched as a fan. they signed two decent tight ends but need more. I also really like Ikey the lineman but he should be gone by 4.  

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1 hour ago, bitonti said:

They could do that... Or they could just draft a young receiver rb who isn't beat up in Rd 4 for a tenth of the price. 

 

 

1 hour ago, bitonti said:

They want an X. I don't really want London at 10. It's just what I think they're going to do 

Tbh I really like Alec Pierce and George Pickens but not sure if either makes it to rd2.

The trade of 10 is a nice thought but there doesn't seem to be many takers. 

I understand they're looking for an X and I like both of those players as well, and I hope to get one of them day 2. Hell, I kinda think Pickens could easily go to Green Bay or KC in the late first.

And I'd still role the dice on Watson's athletic profile on day 2 as well. 

But as to your first response, I'll take the 'sure thing', even it costs more money up front. This is year 2, the theoretical quarterback 'Great Leap Forward'**, and I'm willing to pay that premium for someone to step in and contribute right away - not a developmental player. And to be precise here - when I say contribute, I'm not talking about 'a nice rookie season'. I want a #1 receiver. This is why I was all about McLaurin or AJ Brown.

**this where I can hedge and say "I once compared Zach Wilson's growth to disastrous agricultural collectivization... clearly I was thought he was going to bust... Eyy comrade, eyyy?"

So while I respect the value based approach you suggest, I'm a bit surprised as you usually endorse a "spend some f***ing money!" NYJ ownership and management strategy. 

Also, just a throw-in at the end, but DeeBo is exactly the right culture fit. Dude is a tough SOB, and an all-gas-no-brake wide receiver if there ever was one. 

I think this makes sense on a lot of levels, and yea, it's expensive, but we can afford it and we do need it - in my estimation at least. 

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2 minutes ago, RedBeardedSavage said:

 

I understand they're looking for an X and I like both of those players as well, and I hope to get one of them day 2. Hell, I kinda think Pickens could easily go to Green Bay or KC in the late first.

And I'd still role the dice on Watson's athletic profile on day 2 as well. 

But as to your first response, I'll take the 'sure thing', even it costs more money up front. This is year 2, the theoretical quarterback 'Great Leap Forward'**, and I'm willing to pay that premium for someone to step in and contribute right away - not a developmental player. And to be precise here - when I say contribute, I'm not talking about 'a nice rookie season'. I want a #1 receiver. This is why I was all about McLaurin or AJ Brown.

**this where I can hedge and say "I once compared Zach Wilson's growth to disastrous agricultural collectivization... clearly I was thought he was going to bust... Eyy comrade, eyyy?"

So while I respect the value based approach you suggest, I'm a bit surprised as you usually endorse a "spend some f***ing money!" NYJ ownership and management. 

Also, just a throw-in at the end, but DeeBo is exactly the right culture fit. Dude is a tough SOB, and an all-gas-no-brake wide receiver if there ever was one. 

I think this makes sense on a lot of levels, and yea, it's expensive, but we can afford it and we do need it - in my estimation at least. 

5 stars for the Mao reference. It's a shame that the schedule is so much worse than last year's. 

Would I be surprised if this deebo trade happened? No. Would I personally do it? Maybe. 

It just goes against the "build through the draft" stuff and it doesn't solve the X problem. It doesn't really even make the wr room that much better. It's more like trading for CmC or Saquon. Deebo is a game changer at rb. He's a good wr. In other words I could see them trading for deebo and then going wide out in Rd 2 and it's because of that great leap of forward theory 

The sad truth is that the fins offense is the one that took the leap. The jets need to keep pace in what could be the leagues toughest division 

 

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1 hour ago, bitonti said:

I really like J Williams but wonder how much he can help Zach this year. The Jets can't draft a guy top 10 and have him show up week 8 when they are 1-7 or whatever. They need instant help. 

Alex Pierce from Cinci is hugely underrated as a player. My concern is that a team will bite on him late rd1. I also really like George Pickens. But it's a gamble if those guys are there. 

Garrett Wilson i'd be fine with, it's just a small window for Zach to hit - and despite what people want to believe, Zach isn't as accurate as he could be with intermediate throws. It feels like another Moore type. Which is fine but they still lack an X for the offense. Corey Davis is a Y playing X and Moore/Wilson are like very fancy (and versatile) Z's.  

which brings us back to Drake London. He's probably not Mike Evans but he could be Plaxico Burress.  Or a poor man's Keyshawn. A physical guy who can block and win 50/50 balls. the hot route on 3rd and 4. the 15 yard Back shoulder stop routes. The fade route to the corner of the EZ. The Jets' offense doesn't have that player and for whatever reason, I can feel it in my plums that JD wants to help Zach as quickly and easily as possible. 

I don't buy the seperation talk because USC targetted this player 15 times a game, many times he was covered and they threw it to him anyways (and he wins more of those balls than he loses). He has the physical basketball rebounding stuff (was on the USC BB team) and will present matchup problems for any DB that tries to out physical him. Even some linebackers. He's just huge and that's not going to go away at the NFL level. (He actually looks like Julio Jones, not as rocked up or diesel but a high cut dude who you wonder 'getting off the bus' is that a DE?) 

Downside he's got no YAC, goes down easy, and the ankle injury. They still need an X for their offense. Maybe that Jets/London talk is all smoke but there seems to be alot of it. 

If you want to know my personal draft "binkie" this year it's Jeremy Ruckert. The guy who they could draft and i'd be super psyched as a fan. they signed two decent tight ends but need more. I also really like Ikey the lineman but he should be gone by 4.  

Funny you should mention another TE.  Mine is Jelani Woods. I think he could be our Darren Waller. I put Waller, Kyle Pitts and Woods in a similar category. Yes, they are classified as TEs, but IMO, they're more like very large WRs (than a traditional TE).

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2 minutes ago, bitonti said:

5 stars for the Mao reference. It's a shame that the schedule is so much worse than last year's. 

Would I be surprised if this deebo trade happened? No. Would I personally do it? Maybe. 

It just goes against the "build through the draft" stuff and it doesn't solve the X problem. It doesn't really even make the wr room that much better. It's more like trading for CmC or Saquon. Deebo is a game changer at rb. He's a good wr. In other words I could see them trading for deebo and then going wide out in Rd 2 and it's because of that great leap of forward theory 

The sad truth is that the fins offense is the one that took the leap. The jets need to keep pace in what could be the leagues toughest division 

 

Appreciate that you got that reference. As the kids say, "game recognize game".

I hear ya that DeeBo is only a good receiver but a great weapon. I completely understand that position, and it does make me nervous - i'd prefer McLaurin, AJB or even DK trade as opposed to DeeBo. 

I think the Saquon or CMC comp is harsh, but I get it. I could say "Alvin Kamara" or "Stouter Laveraneus Coles" here, but I'm not trying to go down that rabbit hole of comparisons. 

This is a risky move, no doubt. It's going to cost a premium up-front in draft picks and cash. I can't sit here and objectively call it "wise". I think it's a good gamble, though.

I think this is the year for JD to take a risk like this - especially one that helps his QB draft pick from a year ago. 

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39 minutes ago, bitonti said:

5 stars for the Mao reference. It's a shame that the schedule is so much worse than last year's. 

Would I be surprised if this deebo trade happened? No. Would I personally do it? Maybe. 

It just goes against the "build through the draft" stuff and it doesn't solve the X problem. It doesn't really even make the wr room that much better. It's more like trading for CmC or Saquon. Deebo is a game changer at rb. He's a good wr. In other words I could see them trading for deebo and then going wide out in Rd 2 and it's because of that great leap of forward theory 

The sad truth is that the fins offense is the one that took the leap. The jets need to keep pace in what could be the leagues toughest division 

 

If they get Deebo they can take another WR but not in round 2. That's as overkill as drafting a 3rd LT in round 1 (particularly in the absence of trading one of our current two). 

It's hard to say what Deebo's ceiling is at WR because look who's throwing the ball to him. JG's a better QB than Wilson was last year - quite clearly - but that doesn't mean JG is the QB to help Samuel reach his ceiling as a WR. 

A 1400-yard WR is almost by definition better than merely "good" imo, especially when it's from a weaker QB who's throwing mostly underneath passes when the WR's getting like 10 YAC on average which boosts his QB's Y/C numbers. Matters not if he's got a blazing 40 time, that's not really what they need, and anyway he's got plenty faster dead speed than the game's current most prolific WR (whose production went from pretty good to all-time great when the Rams swapped QBs).

My main gripes / complaints are:

  • Yeah he is more likely to get injured if used to his potential (too many RB carries). He had like 3 injury stints in 2020, missing 2/3 of the season
  • He drops more passes than he should (9-10% for his career, depending who's keeping score). 

But he's a big-time playmaker who gets open with separation, and I think his drawbacks outweigh the risk of a new WR busting outright, or taking half a season or more (if we're lucky) to become the serious weapon that Samuel already is. 

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2 hours ago, SouthernJet said:

Guyis dual run/catch threat as far as production and Ds have to scheme against him lining up in either spot.

If you could predict in any year that of 4 picks in 1st 2 rounds, one would be as great as Deebo and then trust Douglas with the 2 remaining picks.

I dont wantt to roll dice on 1st round WR (come on, NO ONE will replicate Deebo) so ypu are giving up a pick 38 for Deebo. Big deal. Douglas still has 2 more . 4 and 35 to get 2 more starters.

Deebo is the swiss army knife this OC and scheme crave and will elevate Zach and force 2nd best CB to cover Moore, leaving Davis and Berrios covered by schlubs.

And Carter has a open part of field for dump offs as Moore and Deebo will force D to go wherever they go.Add in 2 hybrid pass catching TEs and Zach has MULTIPLE safety valves. It forces the D to keep LBs for rusing as too many great YAC guys playing close to line.

why would they trade him away? 

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