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The Merged Trade for Deebo Samuel Thread


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15 minutes ago, slats said:

That’s the big one with me. I’d think they’d have to have a contract with Deebo in place before agreeing to a trade. No one wants to play for this team. I wouldn’t take him at his word that he’ll sign, I want that contract written in stone, first. Otherwise the Jets are looking at one or two franchise tags. Or maybe hoping they devalue Deebo like they do every offensive free agent they sign? 

JD would never agree to the trade without the contract.

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1 minute ago, Joe Willie White Shoes said:

JD would never agree to the trade without the contract.

Yeah but… I’ll just quote myself here:

5 minutes ago, slats said:

I don’t disagree, but props to them if they’ve had contract negotiations with Deebo and managed to keep it quiet to this point. Also, if SF decides their player is not there at #10 and punts on the trade, do they match the deal the Jets offered? I don’t know, seems messy, especially from the 49ers side. 

 

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55 minutes ago, Barry McCockinner said:

Fair but it's reasonable for the niners to wait to see if their guy is there.

Is it? 

So, as I got a negative rep on my "jets will miss out, draft some guys that suck" post (which I countered by awarding myself post of the week!), let me defend myself on the internet. :-)

I really want the Jets to get Deebo. I think it's a marriage of Jets need and hopefully system match, based on LaFleur. Also, it would be nice for the Jets to have a bonafide receiver entering his prime, Weaponz for Zach etc. 

Listing that the Jets would fail was just my Jet fan cynicism. I have no idea. 

As far as that tweet, it just reeked of BS, so figured I'd point that out. 

Lastly, regarding the 49ers waiting for "their guy". That seems odd. Drawing the whole thing out, putting Deebo through that - which is totally their right- but then saying to him "Yeah, we wanted to draft player X but Giants took him", your a 9er now, and no raise for you!" doesn't seem like a good way to operate.

Perhaps the Cost is #10 for Deebo and #93 if the player the 49'ers love is there, and if not it's still #10 for Deebo but they draw back #93? Ask the Jets to add a 5th rounder? Spitballing, but just seems strange to walk the whole thing right up the pick and then not do it. 

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6 minutes ago, derp said:

Yes, every big WR who has been able to out body smaller DB's in college has had that skill translate to the NFL. Come on, bit.

Moore isn't really a deep ball threat either. Nice YAC, but he's not especially physical or vertically explosive. Didn't do much in the deep game last year.

Corey Davis catches deep balls. I don't know how or why (not especially fast not a great jumper) but he was the dude who caught the Tennessee bomb 

Everyone is focused on the lack of workouts and trust me, as a clockwatch whore I get it. 

But I keep thinking about Michael Crabtree. That dude didn't run, I wouldn't have drafted him, and that would have been a mistake. He's a target machine. Usc fed him 15x a game. 

Keenan Allen is an interesting comp. Mike Williams or Vincent Jackson maybe. I don't believe he's as good as Mike Evans but that's the idea. Slow Julio Jones. 

there are more wide outs in the league successful looking like London than there are 6 foot 180 guys like Williams, Wilson and olave. Those are robby Anderson type builds. 

we just saw a super bowl where tee Higgins facemasked Jalen Ramsey to the turf and it wasn't called. I'm not like a binkie for this guy (Jeremy Ruckert is my Friday night hope) but if the Jets pick drake london, I get it. He's going to be red zone productive right away and there's less learning curve/red flags compared to the others (Watson, Pierce, Pickens) 

 

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58 minutes ago, derp said:

Hill trade was 1130 on the trade chart, this proposal is 1172. Given the trades he’s had agreed to, wouldn’t be a big surprise if this is what Douglas has on the table.

Also get why SF wouldn’t be that excited about this.

Still don’t get how it happens on the clock unless they’ve negotiated the deal with him already, and the physical would be a factor too.

No way the Jets do this without a contract lined up for Deebo.  Feels too dicey to do this type of deal on the clock.

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9 minutes ago, slats said:

I don’t disagree, but props to them if they’ve had contract negotiations with Deebo and managed to keep it quiet to this point. Also, if SF decides their player is not there at #10 and punts on the trade, do they match the deal the Jets offered? I don’t know, seems messy, especially from the 49ers side. 

Agree. The Hill deal was completely quiet until the day the trade news broke.

 

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There should be a trade in place already WITH a contract ready to be agreed on.  However, how can the Niners go back to Deebo and say "sorry, we couldn't do it" after a a contract has been discussed with NY?  They will have to deal him somewhere.

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3 minutes ago, thebuzzardman said:

Is it? 

So, as I got a negative rep on my "jets will miss out, draft some guys that suck" post (which I countered by awarding myself post of the week!), let me defend myself on the internet. :-)

I really want the Jets to get Deebo. I think it's a marriage of Jets need and hopefully system match, based on LaFleur. Also, it would be nice for the Jets to have a bonafide receiver entering his prime, Weaponz for Zach etc. 

Listing that the Jets would fail was just my Jet fan cynicism. I have no idea. 

As far as that tweet, it just reeked of BS, so figured I'd point that out. 

Lastly, regarding the 49ers waiting for "their guy". That seems odd. Drawing the whole thing out, putting Deebo through that - which is totally their right- but then saying to him "Yeah, we wanted to draft player X but Giants took him", your a 9er now, and no raise for you!" doesn't seem like a good way to operate.

Perhaps the Cost is #10 for Deebo and #93 if the player the 49'ers love is there, and if not it's still #10 for Deebo but they draw back #93? Ask the Jets to add a 5th rounder? Spitballing, but just seems strange to walk the whole thing right up the pick and then not do it. 

They literally wait to turn in the draft card until they speak with players on the phone to make sure they're still alive. It's a big investment and GM's are ultra conservative about the process. It's pretty common for teams to wait for the player they want to be there when making a draft day trade. It is less common for a player to be involved in that trade, but making sure your guy is there is a thing.

How the Niners handle the Deebo situation in a world where the trade doesn't go down is still a problem if this trade was never going to happen, but it is a good point.

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Just now, Barry McCockinner said:

It's going to be wild when the Jets swap #4 for #9 & DK Metcalf instead and tell the Niners to GFY.

The guy that called the Chris Johnson trade twitter dude said the Jets and Seahawks have spoken (like an hour ago or so)

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1 minute ago, bitonti said:

Corey Davis catches deep balls. I don't know how or why (not especially fast not a great jumper) but he was the dude who caught the Tennessee bomb 

Everyone is focused on the lack of workouts and trust me, as a clockwatch whore I get it. 

But I keep thinking about Michael Crabtree. That dude didn't run, I wouldn't have drafted him, and that would have been a mistake. He's a target machine. Usc fed him 15x a game. 

Keenan Allen is an interesting comp. Mike Williams or Vincent Jackson maybe. I don't believe he's as good as Mike Evans but that's the idea. Slow Julio Jones. 

there are more wide outs in the league successful looking like London than there are 6 foot 180 guys like Williams, Wilson and olave. Those are robby Anderson type builds. 

we just saw a super bowl where tee Higgins facemasked Jalen Ramsey to the turf and it wasn't called. I'm not like a binkie for this guy (Jeremy Ruckert is my Friday night hope) but if the Jets pick drake london, I get it. He's going to be red zone productive right away and there's less learning curve/red flags compared to the others (Watson, Pierce, Pickens) 

 


First off, I in general think this WR class is way way overrated because the skinny guys worry me too.

That said, right now the productive guys in the league are actually not the 6’4 guys. It’s Adams, Kupp, Diggs, Chase, DJ Moore, Lockett - on the ground separators. The big guys who produce - Higgins, Mike Williams, Metcalf, Evans - have a down the field element to their game that London hasn’t shown.

There are absolutely guys who play as bigger slow guys and not downfield. Michael Thomas hasn’t been healthy for a while but comes to mind, Allen is another though I think his quickness is pretty elite. Going back, Brandon Marshall maybe. Definitely, definitely not Vincent Jackson or Mike Williams. Those are big play, downfield, at the boundary guys. London didn’t do that at all in college. He looks similar to USC Mike Williams at times, who was utterly dominant at the catch point in college and didn’t translate at all.

I think with the illegal contact rules it’s a lot easier for the smaller guys to separate from DB’s and so there’s less throwing to a 6’4 guy with a DB draped all over him versus a 5’11 guy with a DB draped all over him. Now I’d rather throw to an open 5’11 guy than a 6’4 guy with a DB draped all over him.

Maybe that’s just the league evolving and there’s a lull with the big possession guys, but I think the changes in rule enforcement have changed the need to have those guys. Even in the red zone those small quick guys get open.

Davis caught the bomb against Tennessee on a broken play but he’s not rolling coverages or stressing teams downfield. Moore isn’t. London won’t. At least London can beat press.

I think they can use him as a big slot and I like him in that role, but the lack of speed absolutely plays into his evaluation.

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5 minutes ago, Barry McCockinner said:

It's going to be wild when the Jets swap #4 for #9 & DK Metcalf instead and tell the Niners to GFY.

That would be my dream scenario.  Can't see it happening even close to that (I think we'd have to put in more - like #38) but that would resolve the whole WR1 situation and still leave us two top-10 picks.  Yes please.

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6 minutes ago, Barry McCockinner said:

It's going to be wild when the Jets swap #4 for #9 & DK Metcalf instead and tell the Niners to GFY.

Metcalf. Deebo. Either will do. Just get SOMEONE who is a #1.

 

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53 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

He’s 6’3”, 215 lbs and all legs. People keep talking about him like he’s 6’6” 230 because every other first round receiver is a smurf.

He is 6’4 and plays up to his size unlike say Corey Davis and Robby Anderson. His basketball background definitely shines on field he knows to use it his body to box out and high point.  I could easily see size/skill translating. similar to courtland sutton or Tee higgins

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50 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

He’s 6’3”, 215 lbs and all legs. People keep talking about him like he’s 6’6” 230 because every other first round receiver is a smurf.

He's a hair away from 6-4 and weighed 219 at his pro day 

His production was special that's why people talk about him. Usc didn't have an offense besides drake london 

The dude played usc basketball he's always going to be able to out rebound and body out 90 percent of the cb in the league 

He's not randy moss or whatever but the Jets backed themselves into a situation here where they need a wide out 

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42 minutes ago, derp said:


First off, I in general think this WR class is way way overrated because the skinny guys worry me too.

That said, right now the productive guys in the league are actually not the 6’4 guys. It’s Adams, Kupp, Diggs, Chase, DJ Moore, Lockett - on the ground separators. The big guys who produce - Higgins, Mike Williams, Metcalf, Evans - have a down the field element to their game that London hasn’t shown.

There are absolutely guys who play as bigger slow guys and not downfield

I think with the illegal contact rules it’s a lot easier for the smaller guys to separate from DB’s and so there’s less throwing to a 6’4 guy with a DB draped all over him versus a 5’11 guy with a DB draped all over him. Now I’d rather throw to an open 5’11 guy than a 6’4 guy with a DB draped all over him.

I think they can use him as a big slot and I like him in that role, but the lack of speed absolutely plays into his evaluation.

It depends on how we define down field. He's not a deep guy but he's important to the intermediate level. Having an automatic 17 yard back shoulder stop from the X is an aspect of this Jets offense that currently does not exist 

As for the size argument, you're right when the qb throwing it is diming like Stafford and Rodgers. the problem is that Zach is not as accurate as everyone thinks. His footwork is messy and often throws gunslinger trash and drake london has the catch radius to make qb1 look better. That's the aspect of the London pick I understand 

If drake london ran a 4.4 he'd be like a top 3 guy. Yes the speed factors into his price as a mid Rd 1 guy rather than a high Rd 1 guy 

I did not want to play the Jerry Rice card but that's another mid Rd 1 guy who didn't run a great 40

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8 minutes ago, bitonti said:

He's a hair away from 6-4 and weighed 219 at his pro day 

His production was special that's why people talk about him. Usc didn't have an offense besides drake london 

The dude played usc basketball he's always going to be able to out rebound and body out 90 percent of the cb in the league 

He's not randy moss or whatever but the Jets backed themselves into a situation here where they need a wide out 

After your hard stance on Sewell, how much I mocked you and then him looking like a complete stud after a rough start, i trust your judgment bro

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If you are the Seahawks, do you trade up for Kayvon for $8mm to build your defense first and let the Jets pay DK $25mm while you find a new QB, which is probably a veteran next year?  That is what I would do if I was John Schneider.  

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