Cooper Kupp

[KRL]

Does anyone realize he was a 3rd round pick in the 2017 Draft (#69):

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2017_NFL_Draft#Round_3

And now he's the most productive WR in the game:

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/K/KuppCo00.htm

Stop worrying about when we draft a WR, excellent ones can be found
anywhere

[mrcoops]

This is true - there is a lot of depth at WR this year.

Guys who go beyond the 1st round can be stars - you just have to find them.

Personally, I really like Khalil Shakir in the mid rounds. But there are a lot of interesting prospects after the 1st round.

[southparkcpa]

22 minutes ago, KRL said:

Does anyone realize he was a 3rd round pick in the 2017 Draft (#69):

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2017_NFL_Draft#Round_3

And now he's the most productive WR in the game:

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/K/KuppCo00.htm

Stop worrying about when we draft a WR, excellent ones can be found
anywhere

Stephen Hill says hello.  That post reminds me of Idzik bragging that good Oline should be 3rd rounders. 

Kupp is an outlier…….

[Irish Jet]

I don't think anyone is saying good WR's can't be found late. We're saying the Jets can't find them.

[Barton]

Tom Brady was a 6th rd pick. The Bengals were stupid for drafting Burrow #1 overall. 

[sec101row23]

This could be said for every position.   

[docdhc]

6 minutes ago, sec101row23 said:

This could be said for every position.   

It seems more true for WR. Hill round 5, Hopkins late 1st, Davante Adams, 2, Kupp 3. Not a top 10 pick for any of them. 

[Pointdexter]

For what it's worth, in this particular draft, I don't think there's much of a talent gap between the guys projected in the first round vs the second round.

Honestly I think guys like Christian Watson, Chris Olave, Treylon Burks, and Jalen Tolbert are just as good of prospects as Garret Wilson and Drake London. 

Based on draft position, in my opinion, there is a lot more value in waiting until that second group by getting an edge and/or another piece for the OL in rd 1.

[ScouserJet]

I was looking at this recently, I had a lot of time on my hands and went through drafts from 2011-2021, and so many first round receivers were busts.

Obviously, lots were also very good. But you can develop a receiver, it’s just a case of, can we?

2020 top 5 receiving yards

Diggs - Round 5 (146)

Hopkins - Round 1 (27)

Jefferson - Round 1 (22)

Adams - Round 2 (53)

2021 Top 5 Receiving yards

Kupp - Round 3 (69)

Jefferson - Round 1

Adams - Round 2

Chase - Round 1

Samuel -  Round 2 (36)

 

Being a stud like Chase obviously helps, but there are lots of good picks with great potential, if we do everything right.

[Dunnie]

For what it's worth, in this particular draft, I don't think there's much of a talent gap between the guys projected in the first round vs the second round.
Honestly I think guys like Christian Watson, Chris Olave, Treylon Burks, and Jalen Tolbert are just as good of prospects as Garret Wilson and Drake London. 
Based on draft position, in my opinion, there is a lot more value in waiting until that second group by getting an edge and/or another piece for the OL in rd 1.

I'm being honest when I say I have only seen these guys play once or
twice.. and their highlight reels.

So I cannot debunk or support this theory...

I will say that many can help improve our roster.

[sec101row23]

6 minutes ago, docdhc said:

It seems more true for WR. Hill round 5, Hopkins late 1st, Davante Adams, 2, Kupp 3. Not a top 10 pick for any of them. 

Go through TE, CB, OT, LBer etc, etc.    Of course you will find great players drafted outside of the top 10 or so because there are only 10 players drafted in the top 10 every year, vs. 250 other drafted players plus another 100 or so UDFA’s.    This is a silly argument.   

[T0mShane]

Ignore the 40 times.

[Trotter]

48 minutes ago, Irish Jet said:

I don't think anyone is saying good WR's can't be found late. We're saying the Jets can't find them.

Find out who scouts receivers for the Steelers and offer that person whatever they want to come here. 
issue solved

[TuscanyTile2]

6 minutes ago, Trotter said:

Find out who scouts receivers for the Steelers and offer that person whatever they want to come here. 
issue solved

Then settle for "at least we drove up the price for the Steelers to keep him".  Lol

[Trotter]

That response was cruel and uncalled for however, excellent. 
well done

[k-met57]

Hill is more than a receiver, he is a game changer. That being said:

 

- he is 28 soon to be 29

- he has already lost a half a step

- he has a ton of baggage as well as 2 strikes

- receiver is not a premium position

- this draft is loaded as receiver

 

its on JD to make it right

[BurntDice]

42 minutes ago, Pointdexter said:

For what it's worth, in this particular draft, I don't think there's much of a talent gap between the guys projected in the first round vs the second round.

Honestly I think guys like Christian Watson, Chris Olave, Treylon Burks, and Jalen Tolbert are just as good of prospects as Garret Wilson and Drake London. 

Based on draft position, in my opinion, there is a lot more value in waiting until that second group by getting an edge and/or another piece for the OL in rd 1.

People are so hyped up on Watson now. He seems very very similar to our guy Mims. 

[Warfish]

1 hour ago, KRL said:

Does anyone realize he was a 3rd round pick in the 2017 Draft (#69):

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2017_NFL_Draft#Round_3

And now he's the most productive WR in the game:

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/K/KuppCo00.htm

Stop worrying about when we draft a WR, excellent ones can be found
anywhere

Awesome.

So what has been OUR problem all these years then, if it’s so easy?

[Warfish]

58 minutes ago, Pointdexter said:

For what it's worth, in this particular draft, I don't think there's much of a talent gap between the guys projected in the first round vs the second round.

Honestly I think guys like Christian Watson, Chris Olave, Treylon Burks, and Jalen Tolbert are just as good of prospects as Garret Wilson and Drake London. 

Based on draft position, in my opinion, there is a lot more value in waiting until that second group by getting an edge and/or another piece for the OL in rd 1.

Same argument people here made for Mims. He was just as good as those first rounders…

[JustInFudge]

1 hour ago, southparkcpa said:

Stephen Hill says hello.  That post reminds me of Idzik bragging that good Oline should be 3rd rounders. 

Kupp is an outlier…….

And outlier?  No.  Not at all.  Most of the best WR's in the game werent taken in the first round.  

Kupp, Adams, Hill, Diggs, Godwin, Locket, Allen, Metcalf, Johnson, Thielen, Higgins, Pittman, Brown, Samuel, Boyd, Mooney, McLaurin and on and on and on and on....

[jamesr]

57 minutes ago, ScouserJet said:

I was looking at this recently, I had a lot of time on my hands and went through drafts from 2011-2021, and so many first round receivers were busts.

Obviously, lots were also very good. But you can develop a receiver, it’s just a case of, can we?

2020 top 5 receiving yards

Diggs - Round 5 (146)

Hopkins - Round 1 (27)

Jefferson - Round 1 (22)

Adams - Round 2 (53)

2021 Top 5 Receiving yards

Kupp - Round 3 (69)

Jefferson - Round 1

Adams - Round 2

Chase - Round 1

Samuel -  Round 2 (36)

 

Being a stud like Chase obviously helps, but there are lots of good picks with great potential, if we do everything right.

Good stuff to know - I realise it's a small sample size, but notionally 80% of these were Rd 1 / Rd 2 picks (and the guys who appear twice - i.e. who did it consistently - were all Rd 1 / Rd 2).

Higher round pick = higher chance of being very good. Exceptions can occur. Doesn't alter the draft strategy despite the original premise.

[Augustiniak]

the jets haven’t drafted a wr in the first round in 20 years and have had consistently one of the worst wr groups every year.  maybe there’s a correlation there.

[Warfish]

5 minutes ago, JiFapono said:

And outlier?  No.  Not at all.  Most of the best WR's in the game werent taken in the first round.  

Kupp, Adams, Hill, Diggs, Godwin, Locket, Allen, Metcalf, Johnson, Thielen, Higgins, Pittman, Brown, Samuel, Boyd, Mooney, McLaurin and on and on and on and on....

Now list all our descent non-first round star WR’s 

Surely if it’s so easy, we have a few of our own equal to those guys, right? Because it’s so easy, we can toss a third rounder at it and problem solved?

Gotta save those #1’s for Safety’s and DT’s anyway….

[southparkcpa]

6 minutes ago, JiFapono said:

And outlier?  No.  Not at all.  Most of the best WR's in the game werent taken in the first round.  

Kupp, Adams, Hill, Diggs, Godwin, Locket, Allen, Metcalf, Johnson, Thielen, Higgins, Pittman, Brown, Samuel, Boyd, Mooney, McLaurin and on and on and on and on....

I worded it poorly....   I would venture to say most were taken in rounds 1-3.

There is a direct statistical relation between draft round and success I suppose was my point.

https://sports.yahoo.com/news/nfl-draft-hall-famers-come-003451925.html

 

[mattg]

Absolutely. And Brady was drafted in the 6th. And I've been playing the lottery for 20 yrs and haven't won crap. Absolute luck when a team finally gets one right.

[section314]

59 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

Ignore the 40 times.

You heard the Jerry Rice interview too a few weeks ago? Said exactly that, it's the most overrated stat out there. What scouts ultimately look for is 1) good route running 2) ability to consistently get open 3) catching the ball consistently.

[TuscanyTile2]

34 minutes ago, k-met57 said:

Hill is more than a receiver, he is a game changer. That being said:

 

- he is 28 soon to be 29

- he has already lost a half a step

- he has a ton of baggage as well as 2 strikes

- receiver is not a premium position

- this draft is loaded as receiver

 

its on JD to make it right

I'm glad we didn't get him because I don't want to root for that scvmbag but the arguments that "he has already lost half a step" and "receiver is not a premium position" don't ring true (to me, at least).  He's still lightning fast and a game-changer (as we saw in the Buffalo playoff game).  And if WR is not a premium position then why are the top ones getting paid over $20M per year with a bunch of guaranteed money?  Plus why are teams trading 1st and or 2nd round picks (plus others) to acquire a guy who is soon to be 29?  And why are they projecting 6-7 WRs being taken in the 1st round of the draft?

[southparkcpa]

11 minutes ago, Warfish said:

Now list all our descent non-first round star WR’s 

Surely if it’s so easy, we have a few of our own equal to those guys, right? Because it’s so easy, we can toss a third rounder at it and problem solved?

Gotta save those #1’s for Safety’s and DT’s anyway….

Love it!!!!!   Put a smile on my face. 

[TuscanyTile2]

2 minutes ago, section314 said:

You heard the Jerry Rice interview too a few weeks ago? Said exactly that, it's the most overrated stat out there. What scouts ultimately look for is 1) good route running 2) ability to consistently get open 3) catching the ball consistently.

I have to say that I was very impressed with Olave's route running in the video below.  (Though I'm definitely no expert on this stuff).  

 

[Sperm Edwards]

1 hour ago, KRL said:

Does anyone realize he was a 3rd round pick in the 2017 Draft (#69):

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2017_NFL_Draft#Round_3

And now he's the most productive WR in the game:

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/K/KuppCo00.htm

Stop worrying about when we draft a WR, excellent ones can be found
anywhere

This happens at plenty of positions. But I’ve been seeing it here more about OL and WR than real-world results come close to justifying.

There are exceptions to the rule, like Chase/Waddle last year - actual figurative unicorns that everyone knew would be great, and whose production would only be limited by who drafts them and avoiding injury - but no one seems to think any of these guys are at that level.

Where it gets muddier this year, though, is the common sentiment that so few players at other positions are such unicorns either. So it wouldn’t be purely like drafting a WR at 10 who might’ve been just a 20th pick (or even a 2nd rounder) a year earlier; what muddies it is the rest of the top picks seems to be in that boat with the exception of ultra-low value positions like center that only a foolish team would draft so early. There are good edge rusher prospects, but how many had the college production you’d expect of a top 5-10 draft pick? How many of this year’s top 10 picks would’ve still gone top 10 a year ago? 

It’s a point well-taken, though. It seems there are a lot of guys this year who aren’t yet polished enough to get drafted top 10, or missed enough games this past college season (or two) that it’s too hard to judge today, but who may have the tools. Problem is most of those guys end up sucking, and all that elevates some of them is this unknown clean slate plus a strong 40 time and desirable height measurements at the combine.

[k-met57]

6 minutes ago, TuscanyTile2 said:

I'm glad we didn't get him because I don't want to root for that scvmbag but the arguments that "he has already lost half a step" and "receiver is not a premium position" don't ring true (to me, at least).  He's still lightning fast and a game-changer (as we saw in the Buffalo playoff game).  And if WR is not a premium position then why are the top ones getting paid over $20M per year with a bunch of guaranteed money?  Plus why are teams trading 1st and or 2nd round picks (plus others) to acquire a guy who is soon to be 29?  And why are they projecting 6-7 WRs being taken in the 1st round of the draft?

compare the % of receivers getting paid premium dollars vs say edge rushers, corners, OT, and obviously QB's. The top 5 at any position will threaten to "reset the market"....but generally speaking WR is a position you can fill relatively cheap or via the draft.

[kevinc855]

Denzel MimmS 

did you guys know he was an early 2nd rounder

t

 

[k-met57]

21 minutes ago, Warfish said:

Now list all our descent non-first round star WR’s 

Surely if it’s so easy, we have a few of our own equal to those guys, right? Because it’s so easy, we can toss a third rounder at it and problem solved?

Gotta save those #1’s for Safety’s and DT’s anyway….

Sutton

Kirk

Miller

Chark

Gallup

Samuel

aJ Brown

Harman

Metcalf

Diontae Johnson

MAclaurin

Higging

Pittman Jr

Claypool

Gabriel Davis

 

[sec143dmf]

2 hours ago, KRL said:

Does anyone realize he was a 3rd round pick in the 2017 Draft (#69):

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2017_NFL_Draft#Round_3

And now he's the most productive WR in the game:

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/K/KuppCo00.htm

Stop worrying about when we draft a WR, excellent ones can be found
anywhere

And for every Cooper Kupp there are thousands of guys who never pan out.  And as a Jet fan how can we expect this franchise to finally figure it out.  I am a Joe Douglas supporter but this post doesn't make much sense.  I can end my whole work day naming WR's drafted in the first three rounds who amounted to nothing. 

[Snell41]

Does anyone realize he was a 3rd round pick in the 2017 Draft (#69):
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2017_NFL_Draft#Round_3
And now he's the most productive WR in the game:
https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/K/KuppCo00.htm
Stop worrying about when we draft a WR, excellent ones can be found
anywhere

Yes, but we’re the Jets. We don’t find those guys. We never have and we never will.


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