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36 minutes ago, Warfish said:

None of them Jets.

So again, if it's so easy to find star WR's in the third or later, please list all OUR star WR's from the 3rd or later.

Other people's cherry picked picks don't mean anything to us.  If it's so easy, surely WE, a perenially WR-deficient team, have snagged a few.

How's that "as good as any first rounder" Mims doing these days, for example?

And surely ArDarius Stewart and Chad Hansen are now finishing up their spectacular careers for us, right, because third round WR's are so easy to find.


George Sauer

Terence Mathis

Tony Martin

Wayne Chrebet

Laverneus Coles

Jerricho Cotchery

Dedric Ward

😐

Those are the best off the top of my head who had respectable careers lasting 5+ years in the league and drafted after the 3rd round. 
Not much to brag about. 

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3 hours ago, PepPep said:

 

I completely agree. JD has not been perfect. Not even close. But constantly bringing up Mims (who could still very much resurrect his career-BTW) without even the slightest mention of Moore is a bit unfair. It would be like talking about Becton as a bust (who could also very much still be a star) without mentioning AVT. 

And 100%, JD and his draft picks have nothing to do with what Idzik or Macc did. Its irrelevant. While its true that the Jets have not had a history of drafting great WRs, you can't just assume a new GM, coaches and group of scouts won't be able to hit on one without using a top 10 pick.     

JD has been a disaster so far.  However, he can turn it around with one very good FA and draft class.  So far, so good, especially with TE and OL.

If he hits a home run in this coming draft and continues to do a good job all the bad moves will be forgotten.   If his new FA pick-ups dont produce and or he lays an egg in this coming draft, his head is going to roll.

I also have to add, and I cant stress this enough.  A lot is riding on how Zach Wilson plays.  If Wilson improves markedly, it will improve the entire team's fortunes and this JD's standing.  If Wilson cant play, JD's goose may be cooked.  A bad QB will make the entire team look bad, including the new TE's the new OL and what ever offensive players JD will draft.

A lot is riding on Wilson's 2022 job performance.

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1 minute ago, 92ShaunEllis92 said:

Terence Mathis

Tony Martin

Wayne Chrebet

Laverneus Coles

Jerricho Cotchery

Dedric Ward

😐

Those are the best off the top of my head who had respectable careers lasting 5+ years in the league and drafted after the 3rd round. 
Not much to brag about. 

Dedric Ward, lol.

In fairness, I'd literally kill for Zachy to have Wayne Chrebet and Laverne and Shirley Coleslaw to pair with Moore and Berrios.......

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1 minute ago, Warfish said:

Dedric Ward, lol.

In fairness, I'd literally kill for Zachy to have Wayne Chrebet and Laverne and Shirley Coleslaw to pair with Moore and Berrios.......

For Wilson, I'd rather have Keyshawn and Robby Anderson with Moore and Berrios. 

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9 minutes ago, Warfish said:

Dedric Ward, lol.

In fairness, I'd literally kill for Zachy to have Wayne Chrebet and Laverne and Shirley Coleslaw to pair with Moore and Berrios.......

Don’t blaspheme the FOOTBALL PLAYER that Coles was. He was $$$$ for the Jets and pure heart. Until he chased the $$$ to DC and became ALL-World WR there.

Then we trade an underachieving Santana Moss to get Coles back and Moss then becomes the AllPro in DC, 😂 this füčkįng tęam!!! Lol 

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3 hours ago, southparkcpa said:

Stephen Hill says hello.  That post reminds me of Idzik bragging that good Oline should be 3rd rounders. 

Kupp is an outlier…….

You're right SPCPA that Kupp is a bit of an outlier.  However, there are many great WR that can be had after the first round, such as Davante Adams (2nd), Deebo (2nd), Tyreek Hill (5th), Stephan Diggs (5th), Tyler Lockett (3rd), Keenan Allen (3rd), and on and on.

Many fans look at the ratings of the draft pundits and feel there's no hope after the first few WR.

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I dont understand why people post these things…..

Sure, 1st rounders bust and The GOAT was a 4/5 rounder. However, I am certain if you look at the data there will be a strong correlation between successful careers for early rounds vs busts and has beens in later rounds. Theres no way that is not true…

So what does this all mean? Should we take jake camada at 4? Wait for the 5th to get our wr and/or edge? Because that is what the OP is suggesting.

The bottom line is if your needs happen to be in positions of high demand like edge rushers, you snag them early. 
 

Kupp is the exception, not the rule

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2 minutes ago, 92ShaunEllis92 said:

Don’t blaspheme the FOOTBALL PLAYER that Coles was. He was $$$$ for the Jets and pure heart. Until he chased the $$$ to DC and became ALL-World WR there.

Then we trade an underachieving Santana Moss to get Coles back and Moss then becomes the AllPro in DC, 😂 this füčkįng tęam!!! Lol 

Oh it's not Blasphemy, I loved Coles.  Hence why I have a "cute" nickname for him, not a meanspirited "you suck" nickname, lol.  Laverne and Shirley was the sh*t.

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4 hours ago, KRL said:

Does anyone realize he was a 3rd round pick in the 2017 Draft (#69):

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2017_NFL_Draft#Round_3

And now he's the most productive WR in the game:

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/K/KuppCo00.htm

Stop worrying about when we draft a WR, excellent ones can be found
anywhere

You make a valid point and I am hoping we select at least 2 WR's in the upcoming draft. However, except in rare cases, WR's take 2 or 3 years to get up to speed. That is my concern. What are we to do in the meantime?

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2 minutes ago, BettyBoop said:

You're right SPCPA that Kupp is a bit of an outlier.  However, there are many great WR that can be had after the first round, such as Davante Adams (2nd), Deebo (2nd), Tyreek Hill (5th), Stephan Diggs (5th), Tyler Lockett (3rd), Keenan Allen (3rd), and on and on.

Many fans look at the ratings of the draft pundits and feel there's no hope after the first few WR.

The PSU WR - Dotson - will become a #1 WR. Has natural separation and from a program where WRs simply play football without the Diva attitude:

KJ Hamler, Allen Robinson, Chris Godwin, Dan Chisena,

and some decent TEs: Mike Gesiki, Freirmuth, Jesse James 

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28 minutes ago, PepPep said:

This is really how I am looking at it. And even when you go a bit further, to the third tier of prospects (Ezukanman, Rambo, Melton, Gray, Austin Jr., Ross, Robinson, Doubs, etc.) the gap is not THAT big. The argument can be made that it is because this is a weak draft class at WR, but there is still depth to bring in a nice weapon for Zach and potentially hit on a real gem. I have been pushing for Alec Pierce, who I loved everything about but had questions about his pure speed as a deep threat. Well he blazed 4.33 at the combine at 6'3, 215 and scored a 9.62 on the RAS. He's also a perfect fit as a big 'X' who can go deep or over the middle. With his size, I could even see him moving into a split 'Y' receiving role on multiple TE sets. 

Point is, yes, you can not only hit on gem who turns into a stud later on in the draft but you can simply add a legit weapon without using a top 10 pick.  

I really like Pierce also. I actually liked him when I thought he would be a 4.45 guy, but when he ran 4.33 and I fell in love. 

And while guys like Kupp/Hill/Diggs/Adams/Godwin were all found in rounds 2 and beyond that's mainly because you have a MUCH larger pool of players in rounds 2-7 vs 32 players in round 1. 

So while you can look back in almost every draft and find a really good WR in the later rounds, you also find way more crap players. The success rate for WRs in the 1st round is much higher than later rounds (obviously). 

Given our significant need at WR and the fact that we have 4  picks in the top 40. There is really no reason to wait until the later rounds to take a flier. 

I am all for going after London/Wilson and then taking another in the later rounds. 

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4 hours ago, KRL said:

Does anyone realize he was a 3rd round pick in the 2017 Draft (#69):

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2017_NFL_Draft#Round_3

And now he's the most productive WR in the game:

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/K/KuppCo00.htm

Stop worrying about when we draft a WR, excellent ones can be found
anywhere

Lol does anyone realize?! Made me laugh. 

yes, but he came eastern Washington. look em up. Might be the highest anyone has been selected from that school

Youre right tho. Don’t NEED to go top 10

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4 hours ago, KRL said:

Does anyone realize he was a 3rd round pick in the 2017 Draft (#69):

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2017_NFL_Draft#Round_3

And now he's the most productive WR in the game:

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/K/KuppCo00.htm

Stop worrying about when we draft a WR, excellent ones can be found
anywhere

It’s all about the 3-cone! 🤦‍♂️

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23 minutes ago, HighPitch said:

I dont understand why people post these things…..

Sure, 1st rounders bust and The GOAT was a 4/5 rounder. However, I am certain if you look at the data there will be a strong correlation between successful careers for early rounds vs busts and has beens in later rounds. Theres no way that is not true…

So what does this all mean? Should we take jake camada at 4? Wait for the 5th to get our wr and/or edge? Because that is what the OP is suggesting.

The bottom line is if your needs happen to be in positions of high demand like edge rushers, you snag them early. 
 

Kupp is the exception, not the rule

It's called probabilities.  Yet, people continue to cite anecdotal examples/outliers like those are what happens normally.  Sure, you can get a great QB in the 6th round (like Tom Brady).  But a team is much more likely to get a franchise QB earlier in the draft, and that is true of most positions in the game, maybe all.

Really, one of the Jets' huge problems over the years has been terrible 2nd round picks.  So many busts there early one when you simply must get quality starters most of the time...

 

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Other teams 3rd round picks:  Cooper Kupp

Jets hidden gems:  Ardarius Stewart, Chad Hansen

Rams double dipped at WR in that draft, triple dipped this past year at wr and double dipped at wr the year before the kupp year.

To get gems at a position you need to fill you have double dip at the very least.  Douglas might have found a gem if he had done that in the mms draft.

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9 minutes ago, TheClashFan said:

Really, one of the Jets' huge problems over the years has been terrible 2nd round picks.  So many busts there early one when you simply must get quality starters most of the time...

Feels like 2nd thru 4th has been a hole of failure, potentially excluding the TBD 2021 class that looks pretty good (Moore and Carter).

2020:  Mims, Davis, Zuniga, Perine, Morgan, Clark.  Ugh.  Just Ugh.

2019:  Polite, Edoga, Westco.  

2018:  Shephard, Herndon

2017: Maye (good player), Stewart, Hanson (no wonder WR has been such an issue).

2016: Hackenberg, Jenkins, Burris

2015: Smith, Mauldin, Petty

I mean seriously, rounds 2-4, where alot of teams do find talent (like Cooper Kupp I hear, easy peasy, lol) has been a graveyard of bad players for us. 

No wonder we're so thin and so bad looking at this list of trash.

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1 minute ago, Warfish said:

Feels like 2nd thru 4th has been a hole of failure, potentially excluding the TBD 2021 class that looks pretty good (Moore and Carter).

2020:  Mims, Davis, Zuniga, Perine, Morgan, Clark.  Ugh.  Just Ugh.

2019:  Polite, Edoga, Westco.  

2018:  Shephard, Herndon

2017: Maye (good player), Stewart, Hanson (no wonder WR has been such an issue).

2016: Hackenberg, Jenkins, Burris

2015: Smith, Mauldin, Petty

I mean seriously, rounds 2-4, where alot of teams do find talent (like Coioper Kupp, lol) has been a graveyard of bad players for us.  No ownder we're so think and so bad looking at this list of trash.

I'm with you in terms of the history.  But in fairness, only one of those drafts belonged to the current administration, and I choose to separate them out from this horrific history.  If they have a bad draft this year, though, I will throw them right in with the rest of the bunch.

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3 hours ago, Bruce Harper said:

I'm with you in terms of the history.  But in fairness, only one of those drafts belonged to the current administration, and I choose to separate them out from this horrific history.  If they have a bad draft this year, though, I will throw them right in with the rest of the bunch.

True, JD is responsible only for two.  But one of those is perhaps the worst wasted set of 2nd to 4th round picks in our history in 2020.  That draft could have been transformative, and it's almost entirely trash.  So he's not innocent of our poor mid-round history.

As noted, 2021, with all of two picks between 2 and 4, looks ok.....if those two players, Moore and Carter, find a way to stay healthy.  They missed a combined 9 games (6 for Moore, 3 for Carter).

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2 hours ago, southparkcpa said:

Im not bothered one bit.....   Like @Warfish stated, where's ours????

Where's our what?  Example of a late round WR hit? We actually have quite a few which I will touch on later but in general, where is our example of drafting any good, anywhere, like, ever?  lmfao.  There are only a handful and the franchise has been around for 50 years.  I dont have the answer on why the Jets suck at drafting.  No clue.  It's actually quite unbelievable just how inept they've been over my lifetime.  It's almost like they're trying to be an embarrassments, why?  Again, no clue.

Now, that being said.  Go look at the Jets all time leaders in receiving yards.  Of the top 5.  Maynard, Walker, Cherbet, Toon, Coles.  Only Toon was a 1st round pick.  6 is Cotchery and, then Rob Moore and Keyshawn one mid and two 1st round picks.  Followed by; Robby Anderson, Blake Turner, Derrick Gaffney, Jeremy Kerley.  None of which, were 1st round picks.

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1 hour ago, Warfish said:

Outlier:

"A data point on a graph or in a set of results that is very much bigger or smaller than the next nearest data point."

We'll see if Cupp meets that below.....

Doesn't bother me in the least.  I enjoy the debate.

Let's look closer at that Cooper draft:

In 2017, there were 26 WR's picked in the third round or later.  Including the aforementioned ArDarius Stewart and Chad Hansen (both busts) by our own Jets.

Of that group, exactly three Cupp, Godwin and Galladay, turned out to be descent pro WR's.

Even if we limit it just to the third round, 8 WR"s were selected in the third, of which exactly two (Cupp and Godwin) became stars.  That's a 25% success rate.  37.5% if you want to count Galladay too.

In that same draft, 6 WR's were picked in he first two rounds.  Only 3 in the First.

Of that group, exactly three, Davis (before he got here), Williams and JuJu turned out to be descent pro WR's.   That's a 50% success rate in the first two rounds.  75% if we consider just the first round.  

Cupp, indeed the unquestionably best WR to-date of that draft, IS the outlier.  As is Godwin (who played in a high-passing O with Winston and Tom Brady).  ArDarius Stewart and Chad Hanson and the bulk of the other 3rd or later drafted WR's other are the norms.  

Meanwhile the first two rounds were a 50/50 shot.  Much better than the 11% (or 37.5% if you prefer just the 3rd) shot of picking a 3rd to 7th round WR that draft.

The NFL Draft is a crapshoot at best, we all know it.  Even 50/50 in the first two rounds is craptstic bad odds (Mims the best example here).  But the odds of landing a star WR drops precipitously the later in the draft you pick them, and the worse your team is on Offense and at QB.  Yes, in the aggregate across the entire league, a fair few number of mid-rounders, mostly on better teams with great QB's, have found success.  And most haven't.  

But that is not the entire population of this and later picked WR"s, it's a cherry picked subpopulation.  It's akin to the "well, Peyton Manning sucked as a rookie, so Zach Wilson will surely be an HOF'er" argument.  One guy is an outlier when the odds are 11% for and 89% against.

It's interesting to me that some folks look at Cupp, and see a sure thing for us picking later too, and don't even notice the two guys in that same draft WE OURSELVES picked who both busted, lol.  Even in that small sub-population, the odds are 2-1 against.

The higher you pick, the better prospect you should get, and the higher the chance of success.  The later you pick, especially as a bad or QB deficient team, the lower your odds.  Great teams with great QB's can afford to do this, because they have a great situation to put those lower-ranked prospects into.  Bad teams with bad QB's simply do not have this advantage.

IMO a team as utterly deficient as ours on offense should be doubling down.  Taking BOTH our positions.  Draft a WR high, and draft a WR mid-rounds.  A 1st and a 3rd or 4th.  Better than yet another Safety and DT in a modern NFL utterly driven by Offense and passing.

Ah, TLDR, I know.  Agree to disagree would have been much easier to write, lol.  

 

lol - I read it, I'll respect this thorough of an answer but I think you're jumping to conclusion and making points, that nobody is actually making.  Kupp is not an outlier.  It is a fact, the best WR's in the game, were not 1st round picks.  That said, nobody is saying it's easy or that is the formula, people are just stating a fact and some are relating to this particular draft.  Like last year, if we had multiple picks and were drafting WR, I would not have condoned waiting because the draft was WR top heavy...even though I think Moore will be a 2nd round hit. ;-)   

It is also a fact, the better prospects go early.  I think everyone gets that well and good.  There is a reason there are rounds and certain picks hold certain value.  Yes, the best players typically go early.   This is true for every position.  Nobody is arguing that fact.  However, there are positions that seems to have a strong success rate in the late rounds and WR happens to be one of them and yes, this includes the Jets, see my post breaking that fact down.  RB is another position, IOL, TE, DT are others.  Whereas, there is a pretty big drop off for other position like QB, Edge, CB, T.  I really need to learn to save things but I've shared the break down and the percentages and I'm positive I've shared it with you but  WR actually has the 2nd highest bust rate in the 1st round.

 

 

 

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5 hours ago, KRL said:

Does anyone realize he was a 3rd round pick in the 2017 Draft (#69):

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2017_NFL_Draft#Round_3

And now he's the most productive WR in the game:

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/K/KuppCo00.htm

Stop worrying about when we draft a WR, excellent ones can be found
anywhere

sorry but this concept is completely illogical for two reasons:

1. There is a possibility for every single pick in the draft to be an all pro. So there WILL be great 3rd rounders and great 7th rounders but with each pick the odds on that happening go WAY down. Simply put no matter how you look at it, you have less chance of getting an elite WR later than earlier. It is simple probability and that is all the draft is, to make the lowest risk bet

2. Just because it happened before does not mean it will happen again often or even ever. There will likely never be a Brady level QB picked 6th. But some day there will be a QB similar picked in the 1st.

You cannot base the draft on anomolies. You need to maximze the odds of getting a good player with each pick and that is why they go through months of preparation analysis and grading and even then it is 50/50.

If we do not pick WR in RD 1 it is far less likely we get one in RD2 or 3 

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3 hours ago, Warfish said:

Same argument people here made for Mims. He was just as good as those first rounders…

Can't speak to that bc I never liked Mims as a prospect. I loved Claypool in that class, though. That probably would've worked out ok.

No one is saying the 2nd rounders can't miss. It's just that I think the chances of finding a good one there is just as good as the 1st round, at least in this drat.

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31 minutes ago, JiFapono said:

lol - I read it

Thanks brosef. 👍

31 minutes ago, JiFapono said:

However, there are positions that seems to have a strong success rate in the late rounds and WR happens to be one of them

I think this is my core disagreement.

As shown in the analysis of the Cooper draft, the first round gave a 75% success rate.

The third round gave a 37.5% success rate, with one (Cooper) being the best of that draft class in production to-date.  And one, Godwin, being second.

Yes, good WR's can be found in the third.  But do we risk a 65% failure rate to try that, or do we value a WR for Wilson enough to go the less risky 75% success rate of the 1st round (again, just using the Kupp draft numbers for general reference purposes for discussion).

Again, I think I do both.  A WR at #10 (Wilson, I continue to hope) and a WR in the later rounds (who? I leave that to the draft-heads).

 

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32 minutes ago, Pointdexter said:

Can't speak to that bc I never liked Mims as a prospect. I loved Claypool in that class, though. That probably would've worked out ok.

No one is saying the 2nd rounders can't miss. It's just that I think the chances of finding a good one there is just as good as the 1st round, at least in this drat.

Understood.  It comes down to the bolded, the chances, i.e. the odds.

See previous posts. :)

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Here is some statistics on why it is so misguided to think that waiting later is a good strategy. From 2000-1027 here are the Pro Bowl odds by pick. There are pro bowlers all through the first 3 rounds but picking later FAR reduces the odds. So the concept of just pick a WR later is completely erroneous. Even the bottom 3rd of the fist round is 40% less likely to get a Pro Bowler. This is where the draft value chart comes from to begin with. Can you get a great WR in later rounds? Yes. Is it a good strategy? No

Think of it this way. Say you were given 1 putt to win a million dollars. Would you rather try it from 10 feet or 20 feet?

 

image.png.9203c9c4ee41eb41fde0907fd7fc6e00.png

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3 hours ago, Augustiniak said:

the jets haven’t drafted a wr in the first round in 20 years and have had consistently one of the worst wr groups every year.  maybe there’s a correlation there.

Yes - the correlation is we don’t have any first round WR busts #ThankYouJoe!

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2 hours ago, THE BARON said:

JD has been a disaster so far.  However, he can turn it around with one very good FA and draft class.  So far, so good, especially with TE and OL.

If he hits a home run in this coming draft and continues to go a good job all the bad moves will be forgotten.   If his new FA pick-ups dont produce and or he lays an egg in this coming draft, his head is going to roll.

I also have to add, and I cant stress this enough.  A lot is riding on how Zach Wilson plays.  If Wilson improved markedly, it will improve the entire team's fortunes and this JD's standing.  If Wilson cant play, JD's goose may be cooked.  A bad QB will make the entire team look bad, including the new TE's the new OL and what ever offensive players JD will draft.

A lot is riding on Wilson's 2022 job performance.

Disaster is harsh, IMO. Especially as far as the draft is concerned. You can argue one way or another about free agency. But as far as the draft, 1- he clearly had ONE good draft and ONE bad draft. and 2- any way you slice it, its a bot early to tell on a lot of these guys. 

Just looking at his failed draft: Becton could still be a star, Hall is a starter, Davis is a contributor and could still be a potential starter, Mann is a starter, and even Mims can still resurrect his career despite all the negativity around him- at least be a depth guy. 

And his 2021 draft: Carter, Carter II, Echols, Moore, AVT- not one of these guys can you point to and say they are busts or JD whiffed. Although, after only one season its really too early to tell on all of them. 

And yes, I agree, it will all depend on how Zach develops.  

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6 hours ago, KRL said:

Does anyone realize he was a 3rd round pick in the 2017 Draft (#69):

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2017_NFL_Draft#Round_3

And now he's the most productive WR in the game:

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/K/KuppCo00.htm

Stop worrying about when we draft a WR, excellent ones can be found
anywhere

Yeah, don't  you know 3rd round picks always become the most produtive players. That is why we have always sucked at that position because we keep taking them in the 2nd round. 

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Disaster is harsh, IMO. Especially as far as the draft is concerned. You can argue one way or another about free agency. But as far as the draft, 1- he clearly had ONE good draft and ONE bad draft. and 2- any way you slice it, its a bot early to tell on a lot of these guys. 
Just looking at his failed draft: Becton could still be a star, Hall is a starter, Davis is a contributor and could still be a potential starter, Mann is a starter, and even Mims can still resurrect his career despite all the negativity around him- at least be a depth guy. 
And his 2021 draft: Carter, Carter II, Echols, Moore, AVT- not one of these guys can you point to and say they are busts or JD whiffed. Although, after only one season its really too early to tell on all of them. 
And yes, I agree, it will all depend on how Zach develops.  


Mims is getting cut this year, bank on it. Becton already lost his job at LT and is one more bowl of ice cream away from losing it at RT. Hall is ok, and Davis looks like trash. As to ALL of his draft picks, none of them seem capable of staying on the field.


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45 minutes ago, johnnysd said:

Here is some statistics on why it is so misguided to think that waiting later is a good strategy. From 2000-1027 here are the Pro Bowl odds by pick. There are pro bowlers all through the first 3 rounds but picking later FAR reduces the odds. So the concept of just pick a WR later is completely erroneous. Even the bottom 3rd of the fist round is 40% less likely to get a Pro Bowler. This is where the draft value chart comes from to begin with. Can you get a great WR in later rounds? Yes. Is it a good strategy? No

Think of it this way. Say you were given 1 putt to win a million dollars. Would you rather try it from 10 feet or 20 feet?

 

image.png.9203c9c4ee41eb41fde0907fd7fc6e00.png

thank you. debate has ended

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Here is some statistics on why it is so misguided to think that waiting later is a good strategy. From 2000-1027 here are the Pro Bowl odds by pick. There are pro bowlers all through the first 3 rounds but picking later FAR reduces the odds. So the concept of just pick a WR later is completely erroneous. Even the bottom 3rd of the fist round is 40% less likely to get a Pro Bowler. This is where the draft value chart comes from to begin with. Can you get a great WR in later rounds? Yes. Is it a good strategy? No
Think of it this way. Say you were given 1 putt to win a million dollars. Would you rather try it from 10 feet or 20 feet?
 
image.png.9203c9c4ee41eb41fde0907fd7fc6e00.png


You’re correct, however drafting WR’s in later rounds leads to getting players that are not as good, so you don’t have to pay them. That’s how you win the cap space trophy!


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44 minutes ago, PepPep said:

Disaster is harsh, IMO. Especially as far as the draft is concerned. You can argue one way or another about free agency. But as far as the draft, 1- he clearly had ONE good draft and ONE bad draft. and 2- any way you slice it, its a bot early to tell on a lot of these guys. 

Just looking at his failed draft: Becton could still be a star, Hall is a starter, Davis is a contributor and could still be a potential starter, Mann is a starter, and even Mims can still resurrect his career despite all the negativity around him- at least be a depth guy. 

And his 2021 draft: Carter, Carter II, Echols, Moore, AVT- not one of these guys can you point to and say they are busts or JD whiffed. Although, after only one season its really too early to tell on all of them. 

And yes, I agree, it will all depend on how Zach develops.  

Mimms and Becton are problems he should have seen coming. 

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