Regarding the Tyreek Hill Situation

[Jet Nut]

2 hours ago, TuscanyTile2 said:

 I get he was a rookie but did he show "electric upside" last year though?  Maybe a handful of plays but it was few and far between. Justin Herbert showed it all throughout his rookie year.  Mahomes was great his first year as well.

ZW didn't throw for 300 yards in even 1 game last year.

How does that compare to Hill saying Mahomes was terrible his first year leaving him on the bench?

[Jet Nut]

2 hours ago, TuscanyTile2 said:

Some "silly right"?  Do you really not understand the point I'm making? 

No anyone on the other end as Hill would understand it’s part of the game, happens to others.  You can find the same from J Allen, especially as a rookie and beyond, had more that ZW or Mahomes, it’s not the big deal that some have run with especially under stress

[GREAT WHITE HYPE]

13 hours ago, T0mShane said:

Rosenhaus knew Hill was only going to Miami. The Chiefs knew Hill was only going to Miami. Hill knew Hill was only going to Miami. And given that they had an extension prepared roughly ten minutes after the trade was completed, it’s fairly likely that Miami knew that Hill was only going to Miami. So, kudos to Joe Douglas for being the rube that occupied a chair at the poker table. The bad idea part comes with Joe Douglas getting publicly owned in pursuit of a 28 year-old speed receiver with multiple, confirmed, grisly instances of domestic violence on his ledger, a week after they refused to get into the bidding for Deshaun Watson, presumably on grounds of esteemed morality. Not only did Douglas lose out on Hill, he also ceded any shred of moral high ground he pretended to hold, all for a guy who wanted no part of being here. And the coup de grace? Hill, in his Miami presser, scoffing at the idea of even considering playing for the godforsaken Jets and eliciting laughs from the assembled media. 

Play like a JET!

[FootballLove]

6 hours ago, Green Ghost said:

You still don’t have a clue how this all went down, do you?

Fill us in

[TuscanyTile2]

7 hours ago, FidelioJet said:

No, of course not.  His season was bad - without question.

But the circumstances he came into couldn't have been worse..

New OC, HC - new system. The worst OL I've ever seen (specifically early)

He wasn't ready, I think that was clear.

But, to me, he clearly and obviously showed he has the tools to be an elite NFL QB.  

Can he put it together?   Can he reign in some of those high balls he tended to throw when he pushed the ball downfield..  Can he avoid the Yips?

I really don't know - but he needs a real NFL weapon - someone he can count on to be open - someone who will be the first read and be open...Make things simple for him.  I am not slightly worried about getting a good player and having him upset with Zach.  

Herbert had a terrible OL his rookie  year.  So did Joe Burrow.

[Green Ghost]

2 hours ago, FootballLove said:

Fill us in

I, and others explained it to you the other day when the trade happened and you were calling for Woody to be fired over this. I’ll repeat, YOU WANTED THE OWNER TO BE FIRED ?

I’m not going to do your homework for you every time the subject comes up. If you want to be “filled in” again, go back to the original thread and find it.

[Snell41]

Herbert had a terrible OL his rookie  year.  So did Joe Burrow.

Joe Burrow has a much worse OL than we do. Even more so now that we signed Tomlinson, although losing our starting RT hurt.


Sent from my iPhone using JetNation.com mobile app

[ncjetman]

It was a terrible, poorly conceived and executed idea wrought by a bumbling, desperate GM being shadowed by a laughingstock owner desperate to keep his one tangible asset on the back pages. 

good one!


Sent from my iPhone using JetNation.com mobile app

[Biggs]

On 3/26/2022 at 7:13 PM, JoJoTownsell1 said:

There is a contingent, of mostly bitter psl season ticketholders, that get out their frustration for their personal financial mistakes by bashing everyone involved with the jets.

On the flip side there's a contigent of mostly delusional Jets fans with no financial stake in the team at all who are suffering from stockholm syndrome.   Thank you Joe Douglas.  

[Jet Nut]

22 hours ago, Larz said:

Yeah can’t believe he Chiefs held back Mahomes. Sack looked scared against the Bills if we’re being honest 

1.  Mahomes wasnt ready to play in his rookie year. It wasnt just Hill who thought he looked horrible in his rookie camp

2.  The Chiefs had a playoff roster and a playoff QB in place.  The Jets were similar in which way.

3.  Name the game where Mahomes or any other QB who sat or not faced a team like the Bills with a roster as bad as what Zach had to rely on.  

Stop with the ridiculous takes already.

[Sperm Edwards]

15 hours ago, FidelioJet said:

No, of course not.  His season was bad - without question.

But the circumstances he came into couldn't have been worse..

New OC, HC - new system. The worst OL I've ever seen (specifically early)

He wasn't ready, I think that was clear.

But, to me, he clearly and obviously showed he has the tools to be an elite NFL QB.  

Can he put it together?   Can he reign in some of those high balls he tended to throw when he pushed the ball downfield..  Can he avoid the Yips?

I really don't know - but he needs a real NFL weapon - someone he can count on to be open - someone who will be the first read and be open...Make things simple for him.  I am not slightly worried about getting a good player and having him upset with Zach.  

The 2021 Jets OL was nowhere near the worst OL ever, and wasn’t even the worst in the league that one year.

The OL always looks worse when a QB doesn’t know what to do when pressure gets in, and he needs more time than most to throw it.  Nice as it’d be, no coach has serious expectations that his QB should be able to just stand back there for 3+ seconds on every called pass play.

Watch some other teams and you’ll see QBs move up or roll out to avoid pressure, instead of eating it or backpedaling or turning a back to the D to move farther back still. It’s so routine for good QBs that it looks effortless, as though that’s the way it was drawn up.

I’m hoping for a big improvement from Wilson this year, and I do think we’ll see it (though whether a noticeable improvement is enough to make him good enough is a separate question). But a big part of it is his pocket awareness has to be between being oblivious to pressure and panicking into only throwing quick dump offs. It’ll help a lot having an improved group of receivers, which (before any further acquisitions) is already better from adding NFL-caliber TEs & if the starting WRs just stay on the field, but he was really bad as a rookie and he looked like… a young QB who’s used to playing against incompetent defenders who’ll never play organized ball again after college is over.

Worst OL you’ve ever seen, lol. What have you seen like 3 OLs in your life? I’m sure it wasn’t even one of the 100 worst OLs ever. Maybe/probably not even one of the 1000 worst.

[FidelioJet]

1 hour ago, Sperm Edwards said:

The 2021 Jets OL was nowhere near the worst OL ever, and wasn’t even the worst in the league that one year.

The OL always looks worse when a QB doesn’t know what to do when pressure gets in, and he needs more time than most to throw it.  Nice as it’d be, no coach has serious expectations that his QB should be able to just stand back there for 3+ seconds on every called pass play.

Watch some other teams and you’ll see QBs move up or roll out to avoid pressure, instead of eating it or backpedaling or turning a back to the D to move farther back still. It’s so routine for good QBs that it looks effortless, as though that’s the way it was drawn up.

I’m hoping for a big improvement from Wilson this year, and I do think we’ll see it (though whether a noticeable improvement is enough to make him good enough is a separate question). But a big part of it is his pocket awareness has to be between being oblivious to pressure and panicking into only throwing quick dump offs. It’ll help a lot having an improved group of receivers, which (before any further acquisitions) is already better from adding NFL-caliber TEs & if the starting WRs just stay on the field, but he was really bad as a rookie and he looked like… a young QB who’s used to playing against incompetent defenders who’ll never play organized ball again after college is over.

Worst OL you’ve ever seen, lol. What have you seen like 3 OLs in your life? I’m sure it wasn’t even one of the 100 worst OLs ever. Maybe/probably not even one of the 1000 worst.

First, I was pretty clear in referencing early part of the season - and there is zero doubt, without question - I have never seen anything - at all - in the 40+ years I've been watching football an OL perform worse than what the NY Jets did in the first three weeks of this past season.

There's no stepping up in the pocket when there are free rushers coming through the middle - or when your right guard is pushed into the backfield on virtually every play...or when your rookie LG is somewhat lost in a very complicated blocking scheme.

LOL that you can't see this.

Yes, he wasn't good - I don't think anyone is saying otherwise - but there can be two things at once.  

He was clearly raw and unprepared - not ready for the speed of the game and absolutely not ready to have the full play book thrown at him -  but having that sieve of an OL to start the season likely set any progress he made in the pre-season back - and had a negative impact on his growth.

 

[FootballLove]

12 hours ago, Green Ghost said:

I, and others explained it to you the other day when the trade happened and you were calling for Woody to be fired over this. I’ll repeat, YOU WANTED THE OWNER TO BE FIRED ?

I’m not going to do your homework for you every time the subject comes up. If you want to be “filled in” again, go back to the original thread and find it.

I thought we were talking about tanking for Sam then. I misunderstood.

[Sperm Edwards]

2 hours ago, FidelioJet said:

First, I was pretty clear in referencing early part of the season - and there is zero doubt, without question - I have never seen anything - at all - in the 40+ years I've been watching football an OL perform worse than what the NY Jets did in the first three weeks of this past season.

There's no stepping up in the pocket when there are free rushers coming through the middle - or when your right guard is pushed into the backfield on virtually every play...or when your rookie LG is somewhat lost in a very complicated blocking scheme.

LOL that you can't see this.

Yes, he wasn't good - I don't think anyone is saying otherwise - but there can be two things at once.  

He was clearly raw and unprepared - not ready for the speed of the game and absolutely not ready to have the full play book thrown at him -  but having that sieve of an OL to start the season likely set any progress he made in the pre-season back - and had a negative impact on his growth.

 

Yeah I watched those same games. We all did. It was clearly not the worst OL in the history of football. If it was, he'd have had his Buffalo numbers every week because he'd have 1-2 seconds and then 1-2 guys are in his face. That didn't happen.

The 2022 line wasn't even as bad as the prior season when Becton was the only one at all above-average overall and the other 4 were all below-average.

And even with that, a better QB makes the line look better and/or a bad QB makes a line look worse. So many times I see QBs slide a yard or two in one direction or another, where if he'd just stood there like a dumb animal he'd have been tagged. If you care to identify it, that is. 

So you can LOL all you want. No one agrees with the 2021 Jets OL being the worst ever. They had two particularly bad games, and those weren't even in the first 2 weeks. Denver early, and Miami later. In between the OL varied from decent to average to meh. 

The same OL allowed a 400-yard game once he was on the bench. I'm not even some Wilson-hater & think he'll be way better this year, but that's just ridiculous to suggest the "worst OL of all time" OL coincidentally & suddenly - and for argumentative purposes, conveniently - got better as soon as Wilson wasn't on the field anymore. 

Fact is his sack percentage was more than double that of Flacco & JJohnson, and more than triple White's. He took a lot of sacks that were squarely on himself. 

[FidelioJet]

2 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

Yeah I watched those same games. We all did. It was clearly not the worst OL in the history of football. If it was, he'd have had his Buffalo numbers every week because he'd have 1-2 seconds and then 1-2 guys are in his face. That didn't happen.

The 2022 line wasn't even as bad as the prior season when Becton was the only one at all above-average overall and the other 4 were all below-average.

And even with that, a better QB makes the line look better and/or a bad QB makes a line look worse. So many times I see QBs slide a yard or two in one direction or another, where if he'd just stood there like a dumb animal he'd have been tagged. If you care to identify it, that is. 

So you can LOL all you want. No one agrees with the 2021 Jets OL being the worst ever. They had two particularly bad games, and those weren't even in the first 2 weeks. Denver early, and Miami later. In between the OL varied from decent to average to meh. 

The same OL allowed a 400-yard game once he was on the bench. I'm not even some Wilson-hater & think he'll be way better this year, but that's just ridiculous to suggest the "worst OL of all time" OL coincidentally & suddenly - and for argumentative purposes, conveniently - got better as soon as Wilson wasn't on the field anymore. 

Fact is his sack percentage was more than double that of Flacco & JJohnson, and more than triple White's. He took a lot of sacks that were squarely on himself. 

You keep wanting to make this about Zach...and it's not.  I have not said Zach was good.  You continue to point to long time vets and how they better handle pressure isn't really solving anything.  I don't disagree.

All I'm saying is - those first three weeks were the worst OL performances I have ever seen.  That is all.  You're free to disagree.

[Sperm Edwards]

2 minutes ago, FidelioJet said:

You keep wanting to make this about Zach...and it's not.  I have not said Zach was good.  You continue to point to long time vets and how they better handle pressure isn't really solving anything.  I don't disagree.

All I'm saying is - those first three weeks were the worst OL performances I have ever seen.  That is all.  You're free to disagree.

A wholly unready QB will make the OL look worse than it is, and he did that with the OL early-on. 

Worst OL you've ever seen, lol. Well then you and I and everyone is actually wrong about our #2 overall pick -- Wilson must've been a great QB right out of the gate and all his WRs and TEs great weapons for him to even muster almost 500 yards those first 2 games with the worst OL of all time. 

There's a reason the OL was getting annoyed at him instead of just saying they'd been stinking the place up (with McGovern going so far as to vent to the media about it like an ass).

I know it's a popular way of putting things these days, but everything in life that that isn't great isn't therefore the worst ever, as though there's just a binary possibility of one or the other.

[FidelioJet]

8 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

A wholly unready QB will make the OL look worse than it is, and he did that with the OL early-on. 

Worst OL you've ever seen, lol. Well then you and I and everyone is actually wrong about our #2 overall pick -- Wilson must've been a great QB right out of the gate and all his WRs and TEs great weapons for him to even muster almost 500 yards those first 2 games with the worst OL of all time. 

There's a reason the OL was getting annoyed at him instead of just saying they'd been stinking the place up (with McGovern going so far as to vent to the media about it like an ass).

I know it's a popular way of putting things these days, but everything in life that that isn't great isn't therefore the worst ever, as though there's just a binary possibility of one or the other.

We can go back and forth on this - and I'm actually not one for hyperbole.  Weeks 1-3  was the worst OL I have ever seen.  I honestly can't think of anything close.

Wilson was better out of the gate than he was in the middle of the season - I believe it was the OL that caused a bit of regression.   Had the OL not been the worst I've ever seen early. - it's possible Wilson's season may have looked differently.

He was never going to be good last year, little would have changed  - just far too big a learning curve for him.  but the OL was terrible - and was part of the problem not the solution....I believe it was GVR that complained publicly said he needs to get the ball out more quickly.  You can take that for what it is, coming from him...

But again, I don't disagree - he did need to get the ball out more quickly...

I know it's the culture nowadays - you have to choose one side or the other - but the reality is, it was both.  The QB played poorly and the OL was pathetic.

 

[Sperm Edwards]

1 minute ago, FidelioJet said:

We can go back and forth on this - and I'm actually not one for hyperbole.  Weeks 1-3  was the worst OL I have ever seen.  I honestly can't think of anything close.

Wilson was better out of the gate than he was in the middle of the season - I believe it was the OL that caused a bit of regression.   Had the OL not been the worst I've ever seen early. - it's possible Wilson's season may have looked differently.

He was never going to be good last year, little would have changed  - just far too big a learning curve for him.  but the OL was terrible - and was part of the problem not the solution....I believe it was GVR that complained publicly said he needs to get the ball out more quickly.  You can take that for what it is, coming from him...

But again, I don't disagree - he did need to get the ball out more quickly...

I know it's the culture nowadays - you have to choose one side or the other - but the reality is, it was both.  The QB played poorly and the OL was pathetic.

 

That is hyperbole.

If it was the worst OL of all time he'd have had no time to complete a pass, let alone throw for almost 300 yards in his NFL debut. 

[Smashmouth]

On 3/26/2022 at 5:30 PM, T0mShane said:

I’d be the oracle on the mount, looking down upon the follies of mortal men and saying, “oh, word?”

Nah you'd just be a co-GM for the ******* Jets

[FidelioJet]

2 hours ago, Sperm Edwards said:

That is hyperbole.

If it was the worst OL of all time he'd have had no time to complete a pass, let alone throw for almost 300 yards in his NFL debut. 

I actually think it proves my point really.  

Wilson's week 1 he was a much better performance than the next few weeks.  The weakness of the OL likely caused regression. Seriously go watch week 1 - he's stepping up into pocket far more often, playing with more confidence.  

He then went on a run of playing mostly sloppy football until later in the year.

I came out of week 1 convinced we had our franchise QB - understanding the poor play of the OL...Week 2 is when the regression started.

It's actually one of my bigger concerns with Zach - he let one awful performance by his OL rattle him...Ultimately he needs to be better than that. 

[Sperm Edwards]

18 minutes ago, FidelioJet said:

I actually think it proves my point really.  

No, it doesn't.

It means you either have extreme recency bias or you've only watched very little football, seeing how the prior year's Jets OL was worse.