AVT to Play RG, Tomlinson LG

[FootballLove]

When Saleh said "Ball with butcher knives" are we sure he wasn't talking about the surgeon who 'fixed' Becton's knee? lol...

anyway, if JD drafts a top T with the #4, are we sure he wouldn't trade Fant instead of B? Makes much more sense to me. Just curious what JD could get for Fant after his really good year playing LT. 2022 2nd round pick? 2023 1st? Nothing? More than he could get for Becton?

[#27TheDominator]

40 minutes ago, varjet said:

• Tomlinson is 33 years old and has a 3 year contract out in 2 years.  AVT is in year 2 of a 5 year rookie contract.  So it makes sense to let LT play LG for 2-3 years and then let AVT take over after that.
• CM is not a bad Center.  He is an OK center but probably a bit overpaid, which is bad in the world of JD, who wants everyone underpaid.  JD needs to find a C to take over for CM next year or get ready to extend him.  CM can't be franchised-too expensive for a C.  I would not fall off of my chair if Linderbaum is available at 35.  
• The Jets only have 2 T on the roster.  Drafting a successor to Fant or Becton is not a horrible idea if he is the BPA at 4 or 10.  He becomes the swing T.  Does not help the team in 2022 much, but saves a disaster in 2023, which is the real season that matters I think.  I do think the best scenario is a trade of Becton that allows us to draft an EDGE or WR in addition to a T to replace him.  

Why do you say the Jets have only two tackles on the roster?  They let Moses walk.  They still have McDermott and Edoga who each played 10% of the snaps in 2021.  They also have another couple of guys Hermanns and Parker.  I get that an upgradw would be nice, but they are not any worse off there than anyplace else.  I'd say that those guys are as good at tackle as Van Roten or Feeney are at G. 

[BornJetsFan1983]

5 hours ago, OilfieldJet said:

Two solid Guards flanking a weak center and lacking a OT. JD has got to be considering OL in Round 1. 

you can draft a decent rook inthe 2-4th rounds...doenst have to go OT in round 1 at all. Honestly dont have to draft OL at all really.

[BornJetsFan1983]

6 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said:

Why do you say the Jets have only two tackles on the roster?  They let Moses walk.  They still have McDermott and Edoga who each played 10% of the snaps in 2021.  They also have another couple of guys Hermanns and Parker.  I get that an upgradw would be nice, but they are not any worse off there than anyplace else.  I'd say that those guys are as good at tackle as Van Roten or Feeney are at G. 

THey didnt let Moses walk, he walked on his own

[rangerous]

5 hours ago, section314 said:

Two possible reasons. 1) Avt way more versatile. 2) They liked Avt and Fant side by side. Fant ultimately will be RT, meaning they either believe in Becton or #4 will be Cross and Becton will be traded.

just thinking the same thing about fant.  he did well playing with avt.  i wonder if this move is to put him back at right tackle and put becton at left.

[#27TheDominator]

6 minutes ago, BornJetsFan1983 said:

THey didnt let Moses walk, he walked on his own

Whatever.  You think he was a priortiy to sign and they let him walk over $15M for 3 with only $5.5M guaranteed? 

[32EBoozer]

5 hours ago, New York Mick said:

Why would you switch AVT? He was solid at last year. 

$24 million reasons vs. a rookie under contract for 4 more years.

[BornJetsFan1983]

22 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said:

Whatever.  You think he was a priortiy to sign and they let him walk over $15M for 3 with only $5.5M guaranteed? 

I do not thikn he was a priority to sign. I think he chose to play for the ravens, and it woul dhave taken more than he was worth to keep here. I did think he played well here. Great picks up by Joe. He proved that he could play at a high level and got to go where he wanted. 

[Sperm Edwards]

6 hours ago, New York Mick said:

Why would you switch AVT? He was solid at last year. 

It's the right move. Tomlinson has been playing LG for so many years straight & is a probowler at that position. AVT has moved from LG to LT to LG in the last 3 seasons; I feel better about moving him. 

Plus AVT was just ok in pass protection as a rookie. He was just a rookie, to be fair to him, but he was nothing super-special like I expected when we used a 1st and two 3rds on him (in an OL-rich draft). 

I like it just as much with the early money seems to be on flipping Becton rather than Fant to RT, and they can still have the AVT-Becton duo next to each other to maul in the run game when they need a sure yard (as was what they wanted last year before Becton sat out the season). 

[bitonti]

9 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

It's the right move. Tomlinson has been playing LG for so many years straight 

the right move would have been to sign a right guard like Scherff and avoid all this movement 

fact of the matter the Jets are going to have a new starter at LG, a RG who's moving from LG, a RT who played most of last year at LT etc.

and they haven't even added Ickey yet, and bench/jun1 cut Fant (however that goes down)

The line is getting better but the cohesion is in shambles. 

[jetsons]

6 hours ago, OilfieldJet said:

Two solid Guards flanking a weak center and lacking a OT. JD has got to be considering OL in Round 1. 

[CSNY]

Just now, jetsons said:

NO NO NO. PLEASE NO 

[jetsons]

5 hours ago, TuscanyTile2 said:

Looking forward to seeing Robert Saleh in GI Jane 2.

jada beat him to it...

[Sperm Edwards]

3 minutes ago, bitonti said:

the right move would have been to sign a right guard like Scherff and avoid all this movement 

fact of the matter the Jets are going to have a new starter at LG, a RG who's moving from LG, a RT who played most of last year at LT etc.

and they haven't even added Ickey yet, and bench/jun1 cut Fant (however that goes down)

The line is getting better but the cohesion is in shambles. 

No that would've been stupid because Scherff misses 5 games per year and isn't this night & day upgrade. 

AVT was a premium guard prospect. If he can flip back & forth from LG to LT and back again, then he can flip from LG to RG given the whole offseason. It's not as bad as flipping tackle positions. But since Tomlinson has been mostly a LG his career, and was playing at a high level in this offense, never missing a game, and with a history of others saying he specifically made them better & was like a coach on the field... he was the smarter pickup and it makes sense to move AVT not Tomlinson. 

[Augustiniak]

3 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

No that would've been stupid because Scherff misses 5 games per year and isn't this night & day upgrade. 

AVT was a premium guard prospect. If he can flip back & forth from LG to LT and back again, then he can flip from LG to RG given the whole offseason. It's not as bad as flipping tackle positions. But since Tomlinson has been mostly a LG his career, and was playing at a high level in this offense, never missing a game, and with a history of others saying he specifically made them better & was like a coach on the field... he was the smarter pickup and it makes sense to move AVT not Tomlinson. 

It’s also fair to wonder that if they are actually counting on becton, they would rather have lake next to him to help him out, not to mention the real TEs they finally have.  

[bitonti]

1 minute ago, Sperm Edwards said:

No that would've been stupid because Scherff misses 5 games per year and isn't this night & day upgrade. 

AVT was a premium guard prospect. If he can flip back & forth from LG to LT and back again, then he can flip from LG to RG given the whole offseason. It's not as bad as flipping tackle positions. But since Tomlinson has been mostly a LG his career, and was playing at a high level in this offense, never missing a game, and with a history of others saying he specifically made them better & was like a coach on the field... he was the smarter pickup and it makes sense to move AVT not Tomlinson. 

Tomlinson is an overrated player. Let's start there. He was a Pro Bowl Alternate last year. He's not Alan Faneca. He's decent enough in run blocking, average in pass protection and yes, very familiar with the system.  Not that special of an athlete. 

Oh, and apparently he can't play RG 

Yes it is sometimes easy to switch but if Tomlinson a ten year vet, Duke graduate can't play RG it's possible AVT can't play it either. Or that AVT will move and not be the same player 

it's an amateur move to risk the development of their best offensive player just so Laken Tomlinson feels comfortable  

[JohnnyLV]

2 hours ago, varjet said:

• Tomlinson is 33 years old and has a 3 year contract out in 2 years.  AVT is in year 2 of a 5 year rookie contract.  So it makes sense to let LT play LG for 2-3 years and then let AVT take over after that.
• CM is not a bad Center.  He is an OK center but probably a bit overpaid, which is bad in the world of JD, who wants everyone underpaid.  JD needs to find a C to take over for CM next year or get ready to extend him.  CM can't be franchised-too expensive for a C.  I would not fall off of my chair if Linderbaum is available at 35.  
• The Jets only have 2 T on the roster.  Drafting a successor to Fant or Becton is not a horrible idea if he is the BPA at 4 or 10.  He becomes the swing T.  Does not help the team in 2022 much, but saves a disaster in 2023, which is the real season that matters I think.  I do think the best scenario is a trade of Becton that allows us to draft an EDGE or WR in addition to a T to replace him.  

Laken is 30 not 33

[Sperm Edwards]

3 hours ago, bitonti said:

Tomlinson is an overrated player. Let's start there. He was a Pro Bowl Alternate last year. He's not Alan Faneca. He's decent enough in run blocking, average in pass protection and yes, very familiar with the system.  Not that special of an athlete. 

Oh, and apparently he can't play RG 

Yes it is sometimes easy to switch but if Tomlinson a ten year vet, Duke graduate can't play RG it's possible AVT can't play it either. Or that AVT will move and not be the same player 

it's an amateur move to risk the development of their best offensive player just so Laken Tomlinson feels comfortable  

So is Scherff. You'd think he never let anyone get past him and all he does is push & pull everyone out of the way.

You also loved Faneca while he was here -- epitome of overrated, who got crazy credit for not being as bad as his roster-bubble guy he replaced - honestly, not unlike LDT last year except Faneca got all credit for Ferguson finally growing into a veteran who could maintain 300 lbs after his first two weaker seasons out of school.

Never mind that one said he can't play RG except you. It's just smarter to keep him at the same position he's been in. It's not as though RG is long established premium guard position like LT with tackle, but they couldn't play him there because he was a liability. If you have any basis for that, produce it. 

AVT is the younger and more pliable. Again, if he can play LT and LG from one year to the next, then he can surely move from LG to RG. 

Amateur would be seeing an OL with injuries last year to the LT, RT, and C positions -- and then want to sign the most injury-prone RG in the NFL. Scherff would've been a SOJ-Jetsy stupid move in comparison.

Over-under, what percentage of the offensive snaps does Scherff play over the next 2 seasons?

[92ShaunEllis92]

23 minutes ago, bitonti said:

Tomlinson is an overrated player. Let's start there. He was a Pro Bowl Alternate last year. He's not Alan Faneca. He's decent enough in run blocking, average in pass protection and yes, very familiar with the system.  Not that special of an athlete. 

Oh, and apparently he can't play RG 

Yes it is sometimes easy to switch but if Tomlinson a ten year vet, Duke graduate can't play RG it's possible AVT can't play it either. Or that AVT will move and not be the same player 

it's an amateur move to risk the development of their best offensive player just so Laken Tomlinson feels comfortable  

considering their respective history:

Both were drafted in the 1st round

Tomlinson started since his freshman year and played 52 Games at LG for Duke and was considered a can’t miss prospect. He was a bust in Detroit after 2 seasons and flipped before the ‘17 season for a ‘19 5th rounder. He’s excelled in this offensive scheme at that position the last 4 years. 
 

Meanwhile AVT was a backup G his freshman year, started at RG his sophomore year, started at LG his Junior year, and then started at LT his Senior year for USC (and winning Hardware his last 2 years for BOTH positions) He has superior athleticism and performed as expected for a 1st round pedigree G for a rookie. Unlike Tomlinson, AVT has performed from the get go

who has shown the MOST versatility throughout their career and most likely to succeed, YET AGAIN, at another position switch while still developing to a be a possible all-pro? And who has shown to, sadly, only strive at one position and that’s after being in the same system and forced to take a severe pay cut in his 3rd year despite being a 1st rounder?

 

AVT WILL BE FINE. ?

[bitonti]

2 minutes ago, 92ShaunEllis92 said:

AVT WILL BE FINE. ?

If AVT was better at RG than LG he'd already be a RG. 

Yes he will probably be fine but making him switch could hold him back from being great 

[BigRy56]

The Jets are going to have a very strong OL next season

[92ShaunEllis92]

1 minute ago, bitonti said:

If AVT was better at RG than LG he'd already be a RG. 

Yes he will probably be fine but making him switch could hold him back from being great 

That’s a reach. If he is truly great, then he will thrive regardless of position. Greatness shines NO MATTER WHAT.
 

See Klecko, Joe-  DLINEMAN 

 

If AVT is meant to be, then it shall be. ?

[bitonti]

16 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

So is Scherff. You'd think he never let anyone get past him and all he does is push & pull everyone out of the way.

You also loved Faneca while he was here -- epitome of overrated, who got crazy credit for not being as bad as his roster-bubble guy he replaced - honestly, not unlike LDT last year except Faneca - and Ferguson finally growing into a veteran who could maintain 300 lbs after  his first two weaker seasons out of school.

Never mind that one said he can't play RG except you. It's just smarter to keep him at the same position he's been in. It's not as though RG is long established premium guard position like LT with tackle, but they couldn't play him there because he was a liability. If you have any basis for that, produce it. 

AVT is the younger and more pliable. Again, if he can play LT and LG from one year to the next, then he can surely move from LG to RG. 

Amateur would be seeing an OL with injuries last year to the LT, RT, and C positions -- and then want to sign the most injury-prone RG in the NFL. Scherff would've been a SOJ-Jetsy stupid move in comparison.

Over-under, what percentage of the offensive snaps does Scherff play over the next 2 seasons?

Scherff is injury prone he's also much better than laken tomlinson 

Faneca was a hall of fame player before he arrived. 

It's just not in AVTs best interest to move him. But they are going to because they could not find an actual right guard. 

Will avt be better, worse or the same at RG? I guess we'll find out. It's a variable 

[bitonti]

6 minutes ago, 92ShaunEllis92 said:

That’s a reach. If he is truly great, then he will thrive regardless of position. Greatness shines NO MATTER WHAT.
 

See Klecko, Joe-  DLINEMAN 

 

If AVT is meant to be, then it shall be. ?

So basically AVT has to be Joe klecko because JD can't read a shopping list properly. No pressure, right? 

I gotta be honest you guys the offense looks almost as garbage as it was last year. They lost Keenan Cole and Morgan Moses. They added 2 average tight ends (being generous) and like a B plus guard. 

They do not know who's going to be left tackle And they are asking the best offensive player AVT to learn a new position 

Not good, you guys... Not good at all 

 

[Hex]

5 hours ago, TheNuuFaaolaExperience said:

Nobody is giving two firsts and a third for Jamal Adams. 

Nobody is giving a second, fourth, and sixth rounder for Sam Darnold.

Nobody is giving a sixth for Blake Cashman.

 

Don't forget the whole Dan Brown thing, where we got a free sixth

[Beerfish]

What a nothing burger.  These guys have pre camp and camp and lots of prep work, LG and RG will be no big deal at all.  Tackle is much different and our LT moved there and played well.  Most oline coaches want most of their interior guys to be able to move around as needed. 

Big FAT Nothing burger.

[92ShaunEllis92]

3 minutes ago, bitonti said:

Scherff is injury prone he's also much better than laken tomlinson 

Faneca was a hall of fame player before he arrived. 

It's just not in AVTs best interest to move him. But they are going to because they could not find an actual right guard. 

Will avt be better, worse or the same at RG? I guess we'll find out. It's a variable 

Based on recent history of both players football careers (college and pro) the odds are better that AVT will have less of an issue transitioning to playing the RG position than Tomlinson would. As long as the Jets WIN and AVT isn’t giving us fans traumatic flashbacks of GVR or JP Machado then that’s ALL THAT MATTERS. 

[92ShaunEllis92]

4 minutes ago, bitonti said:

So basically AVT has to be Joe klecko because JD can't read a shopping list properly. No pressure, right? 

I gotta be honest you guys the offense looks almost as garbage as it was last year. They lost Keenan Cole and Morgan Moses. They added 2 average tight ends (being generous) and like a B plus guard. 

They do not know who's going to be left tackle And they are asking the best offensive player AVT to learn a new position 

Not good, you guys... Not good at all 

 

Couldn’t disagree more with your view. 

[Sperm Edwards]

14 minutes ago, bitonti said:

Scherff is injury prone he's also much better than laken tomlinson 

Faneca was a hall of fame player before he arrived. 

It's just not in AVTs best interest to move him. But they are going to because they could not find an actual right guard. 

Will avt be better, worse or the same at RG? I guess we'll find out. It's a variable 

Faneca's last probowl-worthy season happened before he signed with the Jets.

Scherff being injury prone is not a mild shoulder-shrug thing, nor is he much better (let alone so much better in his 12 games that it's well worth the 5 he's going to miss at much worse). The myth is greater than the man here, as so often occurs.

You are wrong on this as usual. They did the right thing here; as a Jets fan, be happy since it's certainly not often the case.

[bitonti]

9 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

Faneca's last probowl-worthy season happened before he signed with the Jets.

Scherff being injury prone is not a mild shoulder-shrug thing, nor is he much better (let alone so much better in his 12 games that it's well worth the 5 he's going to miss at much worse). The myth is greater than the man here, as so often occurs.

You are wrong on this as usual. They did the right thing here; as a Jets fan, be happy since it's certainly not often the case.

Every week in season I write a 2000 word article about the NFL offensive lines for footballguys.com

Shameless self promotion. But I work hard on this and am proud of my efforts. 

What this comes down to is cohesion. These players need to build trust. 

The best way to have a great offensive line is not to just add talent. It's about keeping the same 5 starters in the same positions for as long as possible. Right now the Jets have one new starter laken but at least 2 moved starters. Becton or Fant to Rt, avt to rg. This is commonly called a shuffle when it happens mid-season. It's the equivalent of adding two new starters. And they could add a 3rd in the draft. Shuffles hurt the consistency. 

It's cool to be a fan of the team and hope for the best but this is a shuffle and that's not great news for the short term. The best lines keep the same lineup over multiple seasons. The jets were a bottom tier line last year and while these improvements should help on paper, it might take these guys a month of the regular season to find their form 

[Sperm Edwards]

45 minutes ago, bitonti said:

Every week in season I write a 2000 word article about the NFL offensive lines for footballguys.com

Shameless self promotion. But I work hard on this and am proud of my efforts. 

What this comes down to is cohesion. These players need to build trust. 

The best way to have a great offensive line is not to just add talent. It's about keeping the same 5 starters in the same positions for as long as possible. Right now the Jets have one new starter laken but at least 2 moved starters. Becton or Fant to Rt, avt to rg. This is commonly called a shuffle when it happens mid-season. It's the equivalent of adding two new starters. And they could add a 3rd in the draft. Shuffles hurt the consistency. 

It's cool to be a fan of the team and hope for the best but this is a shuffle and that's not great news for the short term. The best lines keep the same lineup over multiple seasons. The jets were a bottom tier line last year and while these improvements should help on paper, it might take these guys a month of the regular season to find their form 

Shuffles can hurt consistency; you're conflating that with shuffles do hurt consistency. The most likely case is there's a game or two adjustment for Vera-Tucker, if there's even that much, which is doubtful.

What hurts more is having total newcomers. That you said it's not just about adding talent flies in the face of "but but Scherff is bettah even though he misses 1/4 to 1/2 the season" 

Then in your next post you flip from shrugging off 1/4 to 1/2 the season with a backup into talks of cohesion. Do tell us how much "trust and cohesion" do the Jets have with their backups? 

Tomlinson is a perfect LG for this offense. Just about the best LT in football credits Tomlinson with being instrumental to his fast progress on SF's line.

Moving him from LG to RG is not on an equal plane with him being a totally new person brought in. Just like, while there was an initial adjustment, the whole OL didn't suddenly collapse when Fant had to switch sides and then they went with the summer's RT2 in his place.

Short term problems are far bigger when they're bringing in upwards of 4 new faces like they did not so long ago. They're bringing in 1 totally new face. Then there's another who was with the team's starters all summer last year & he's returning (though more likely than not he'll move to RT, though that isn't a sure thing either). It's not the same as bringing in 3 totally new players with or without your article.

[BornJetsFan1983]

53 minutes ago, bitonti said:

Every week in season I write a 2000 word article about the NFL offensive lines for footballguys.com

Shameless self promotion. But I work hard on this and am proud of my efforts. 

What this comes down to is cohesion. These players need to build trust. 

The best way to have a great offensive line is not to just add talent. It's about keeping the same 5 starters in the same positions for as long as possible. Right now the Jets have one new starter laken but at least 2 moved starters. Becton or Fant to Rt, avt to rg. This is commonly called a shuffle when it happens mid-season. It's the equivalent of adding two new starters. And they could add a 3rd in the draft. Shuffles hurt the consistency. 

It's cool to be a fan of the team and hope for the best but this is a shuffle and that's not great news for the short term. The best lines keep the same lineup over multiple seasons. The jets were a bottom tier line last year and while these improvements should help on paper, it might take these guys a month of the regular season to find their form 

SUre you are right keeping a group together builds chemistry and makes them better but playing our new guard out of position is not very smart at all and would make the gropu worse than they need to be. you want to shuffle Tom around to spot he doesnt play. doesnt seem very smart at all.

[New York Mick]

4 hours ago, THE BARON said:

Probably because they intent to do more running to their strong side.  That is usually the case with most teams.  Given that, they probably see Tomlinson as the faster of the two and able to get out and pull to the right while they see AVT as more of a mauler, hole blaster.

If you recall the Jets line with Brick, Faneca, Mangold, Moore, Woody.

Their running game was almost 90 % to the right.  The elite run blocker, Faneca would pull and Moore would blast open a hole in the A or B gap.  Worked beautifully all the time even though the opposing defense knew it was coming.

I watched AVT play.  He is a good all around guard, but more of a mauler/hole blaster like Moore was and less of a pulling guard.  AVT is also a very good pass blocker.  With your QB going to his right so often, you want a great pass blocking guard on that side.

 

This is way I asked. 

[Jet Nut]

6 hours ago, TheNuuFaaolaExperience said:

Nobody is giving two firsts and a third for Jamal Adams. 

Nobody is giving a second, fourth, and sixth rounder for Sam Darnold.

Nobody is giving a sixth for Blake Cashman.

 

I was told no one was giving one first for Adams.

 

[Jet Nut]

2 hours ago, bitonti said:

the right move would have been to sign a right guard like Scherff and avoid all this movement 

fact of the matter the Jets are going to have a new starter at LG, a RG who's moving from LG, a RT who played most of last year at LT etc.

and they haven't even added Ickey yet, and bench/jun1 cut Fant (however that goes down)

The line is getting better but the cohesion is in shambles. 

Scherff signing would be like the Giants signing Soldier.  A has been on the downside of his career that the Giants signed in a desperation.

A new pro bowl LG is bothersome to you.  Oh wait he was an alternate?  Was AVT if its so easy?  The RG who's moving from LG has some history at RG and of playing well at that position as a college player.  

How do you know the cohesion will be in shambles other that just saying it without an ounce of knowledge. We have an entire season of OTAs, camps, preseason games etc.  They have 6 months to become cohesive.  But of course your 2,000 word article would explain why they would become cohesive with LT on the other side of the OL, or with Scherff as part of the OL. I could care less how many words someone puts into an article.  Doesnt make it right, or close to being right.  Doubtful given your takes on Fanica, LT, AVT and Scherff