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Heavy debate within Jets org about going DL or OL at #4?


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1 hour ago, freestater said:

Bernard Raimann in the 2nd. That's my fallback guy. 

The Austrian may not make it past the 20’s of the 1st round. Really athletic feet for his size and still developing to play the sport 

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6 hours ago, jetstream23 said:

 I think the joke was about the fist fight part but not necessarily that there could be a legitimate tough-o-war between DL and OL at #4.

And, Saleh isn't really giving anything away about the Draft even if he's being truthful.  Everyone knows JD prioritizes OL, everyone knows Saleh and the Jets want an Edge rusher somewhere early in this Draft, and almost everyone knows that at least 5 or 6 of the Top 10 prospects in this Draft seem to be offensive or defensive linemen.

The "smokescreen" here would be if the Jets actually went DB or WR at #4 in a Line-loaded Draft given the two guys occupying the Jets most senior football positions.

Saleh seems to play the good soldier with JD but there's little doubt he's salivating to get defenders in this Draft.  Not just because JD used every pick in the first 4 rounds last year on offense, but that outside of Reed and Whitehead (who are both good) the priorities in FA were obviously on offense when the Jets double-dipped at TE and signed a Pro Bowl OG..... and then tried to give away the farm for Tyreek Hill.  At some point Saleh has to be like, "dude, throw me a bone here!" lol

 

i think there is alot of truth in what you wrote.

Salehs rep took a big hit last year being a defensive coach and having the worst in NFL history. thats a hard thing on your resume.

Saleh probably thought he was finally going to get some 1st rd talent on his defense and someone brought up at a meeting how these OL guys are ranked higher. so now there having the same discussions as we do about what to do with Fant or Becton if they do draft another Tackle. 

and this has to have Saleh fuming. i wouldnt be surprised if he said this on purpose to the Media to start a discussion about defense vs OL. to really dissect it like we do everyday. of all the mock drafts i have read or heard explained none of the ones who had us picking a OL at 4 or 10 explained what we do with the 2 guys we already have. 

they do this in politics all the time. they leak a bill to see how the public feels about it. i think Saleh did the same thing but to see what the Media really thinks about this.

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8 hours ago, Jetpain said:

All the guys that are ripping Douglas for taking another tackle in the first round are the same guys that will be calling for him to be fired for going into the season with only Edoga & McDermott as backups if Becton or Fant were to go down with a serious injury.   

How about those of us who want neither scenario? :-)

Edoga and McDermott are meh as backups - agreed. But if we are looking to create depth / pipeline for future, you draft those guys in later rounds, not round 1. If you draft a guy Top 10, you expect him to start Day 1, not be a backup.

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9 hours ago, Alka said:

I have an answer for you, but you're not going to like it!

The answer is that if Zach missed multiple games this year, his backup is someone who won a Super Bowl.  His name is Joe Flacco, and the reason that the Jets traded a 6th round pick for him last year is for exactly the reason that the Jets don't need to draft a QB at #10 or in the second round.

To add other reasons to the argument, the Jets have a starting offensive tackle who missed most of the entirety of last season with an injury, although only expected to miss 4-8 games, missed 13 or 15 games. (something like that).  The year before, he missed a good amount of time for injuries, and right now, the confidence in him playing an entire season is low, even if the jets wont openly admit it.  

The purpose of solidifying the tackle position is to protect your quarterback from getting killed, and missing significant time due to injury.  You don't draft a QB to protect your offensive tackle, you draft a offensive tackle to protect your most valuable player, the QB.

Won a Super Bowl ... how many years ago? ;-) 

I get your point, but to me, saying that Flacco is our backup plan is like saying that McDermott is our backup plan at LT. Neither is more than a placeholder, and you hope that it never comes to that.

So, looking at LT, there are various options, if we assume we draft a guy at #4:

  • Fant is our starter
  • Becton is our starter
  • New draft pick is our starter

In all three we need a backup plan that is better than McDermott. So we either have one of our three viable starters as a backup, or we move on from them via trade / release - in which case we STILL have McDermott as our backup. Does any of that make us all that much better than last year?

Last year our LB position was manned mostly with Day 3 draft picks and waiver wire pick ups. Our S position was rotating on a weekly basis with guys that no-one had heard of. And we continued to give up a boatload of points every week.

We have two viable starters at LT and RT. To pick another OT based on possible injury, possible attrition in 2023 due to contracts, would be a luxury pick. Especially when we have JAGs lined up to start at a lot of other positions. If we need injury cover for Becton, draft a guy in Rd 2 or Rd 3, maybe even later. He may not even see the field, or if he does it may be spot duty here and there. If we need to plan ahead for maybe not re-signing Fant next year, draft a prospect or two and see who works out. But let's at least field a team with actual starter material at all positions before planning for the what ifs and the 2023 contract situation.

 

 

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9 minutes ago, Scoop24 said:

 

I wonder if Becton is included in the trade offer @LockeJET commented on in the DK thread. These comments are not exactly a ringing endorsement.  Additionally, Seattle has a need at Tackle, and with the Jets picking 4th, they could replace Becton if hes traded.

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23 hours ago, Larz said:

Let’s hope Saleh didn’t actually reveal anything that’s true 

Cooper was the miss not Hill. That still stings. 

For some reason, MANY in the NFL do not trust Amari Cooper. I was hoping to get him b/c his route running is from another planet usually...  He went relatively cheap from what I expected.  I would have loved having Hill on the field.  Either one.  We need a stud out there and we have yet to find him.  There is no doubting that.  

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6 hours ago, jamesr said:

How about those of us who want neither scenario? :-)

Edoga and McDermott are meh as backups - agreed. But if we are looking to create depth / pipeline for future, you draft those guys in later rounds, not round 1. If you draft a guy Top 10, you expect him to start Day 1, not be a backup.

Would agree for the most part as i like most others would love to find a starting caliber tackle in a lower round.  But a Jason Fabini doesnt come around that often, at least not for us. Who knows, maybe this year they pick one of those tackles in round 2.  But while Fant had a good season last season, he's going into the last year of his deal.  I do not think, based on the team comments of Becton has to win his left tackle job back and he may not be ready yet for OTA's, has the sounds of a team that is set at one of the most important positions on a  football team for the next 5-7 years.  We watched Darnold get killed because of poor line play.  Are we going to repeat the same mistakes with Zack and expect a different outcome?  They will have an opportunity to potentially select a franchise left tackle at the 4 or possibly the 10 spot (most likely 4).  i am not sure we are in a position this year AND looking into the future to pass on a franchise tackle regardless of what draft assets we have used in the past. It wont make people happy and isnt the sexy pick, but it just may be the smart pick. 

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10 minutes ago, Scoop24 said:

If it make you feels better Conner did say he expects the to draft OT somewhere in the draft for depth

I'd be most concerned if we weren't. Feeling good about what you have is OK PR wise, but you can't rest on your laurels - keep bringing in a pipeline to develop and improve.

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EDGE/ DT or EDGE  / WR 

JD needs to get that WR1 before the draft to fully maximize what this draft is offering 

if we’re being honest the lack of consensus on the WR class is because it’s very meh at the top end. 

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I like this debate.  I like  it a lot.  An edge or OT at #4.  It  is where the value can be found.  Give me Thibs, Hutch or one of the elephants.  There are 5 elite guys.  Lets grab one or trade back for on the card value.   Full value too.  These are the premium in this year's draft. 

It is my fervent hope that we never pick in the top 5 again (unless it is with a Joe Douglas pick he swiped from Washington or the Panthers in that trade down).  While we are here, we must feed.

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The fan-favorite is Oregon defensive end Kayvon Thibodeaux. The 6-4 258-pound defensive end is an explosive athlete who wins with a combination of speed and power rush moves, which overwhelmed offensive tackles in the Pac-12 at times. He finished with seven sacks last season.

 

There have been concerns about Thibodeaux’s motor as some scouts think he takes plays off. His personality has also come under scrutiny as some believe he doesn’t love football enough since he discussed his brand during his team interviews and doesn’t come off as a player who’s all about football, according to reports.

 

However, his personality concerns seem more like a media narrative and it isn’t dominating the evaluation within the Jets building. Mulitple sources told the Daily News they don’t believe Thibodeaux’s personality is an issue. One simply described him as the “modern day athlete,” who understands there can be more to life than football.

The Jets love his talent, so he could definitely be in the mix. 

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22 hours ago, 92ShaunEllis92 said:

The Austrian may not make it past the 20’s of the 1st round. Really athletic feet for his size and still developing to play the sport 

He's got short arms though 

Brady Christensen part 2

As for this thread title, if there is any debate, the hc is going to lose to the GM. It's jds pick to make, period. 

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6 hours ago, Scoop24 said:

The fan-favorite is Oregon defensive end Kayvon Thibodeaux. The 6-4 258-pound defensive end is an explosive athlete who wins with a combination of speed and power rush moves, which overwhelmed offensive tackles in the Pac-12 at times. He finished with seven sacks last season.

 

There have been concerns about Thibodeaux’s motor as some scouts think he takes plays off. His personality has also come under scrutiny as some believe he doesn’t love football enough since he discussed his brand during his team interviews and doesn’t come off as a player who’s all about football, according to reports.

 

However, his personality concerns seem more like a media narrative and it isn’t dominating the evaluation within the Jets building. Mulitple sources told the Daily News they don’t believe Thibodeaux’s personality is an issue. One simply described him as the “modern day athlete,” who understands there can be more to life than football.

The Jets love his talent, so he could definitely be in the mix. 

Thibs is a dude who acts like he's the man when really he has to get alot better in the NFL.

For example he has no reliable pass rush moves. He can't just run around nfl tackles 

The real question is he humble enough to be coached, and I don't believe he is. 

I'd compare him to gholston but that guy probably had an undiagnosed mental illness 

Thibs is more like Ben Simmons. Caveat emptor 

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