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This board's undying love for Sauce Gardner


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56 minutes ago, Pointdexter said:

As a cb I have to admit he checks a lot of boxes. Just shocked at how badly this board wants us to spend a top 10 pick on him for the following reasons:

1) Premium man cover skills are not a must in this defensive scheme.

2) Pressuring the QB, in today's NFL, is way more effective to defending the pass than high end cover guys. Give an NFL QB 3-5 seconds and he will pick even the best corners apart. I would much rather spend a high draft pick on Jermaine Johnson (or someone similar) who can make the QB uncomfortable.

3) Today's NFL is won on offense and we are still way behind other teams with high end players on that side of the ball. 

I get that people love his nickname. I get that the perceived value of drafting him is very high because of his talent. But let's get a premium player at a premium position if we're drafting top 10. Now if we want to trade back and take a corner, that's a different story.

I think the love comes from the way this draft is built. He wouldn't prevent us from going after a top Edge Rusher and I'd argue the value at WR is the end of the 1st or beginning of the 2nd.

It depends if you buy into the rumors of teams throwing at Hall cause they know he won't make a play on the ball. 

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40 minutes ago, Pointdexter said:

As a cb I have to admit he checks a lot of boxes. Just shocked at how badly this board wants us to spend a top 10 pick on him for the following reasons:

1) Premium man cover skills are not a must in this defensive scheme. This is not 100% true. You can argue that Saleh played man more that he wanted to cover up deficiencies at the safety position. But the bottom line is that the Jets played A LOT of man last year and CB play was critical in their success/failure on defense. Furthermore, Gardner is specifically a great fit for this defense because he is so good at both zone and man, having played a ton of both at Cincy.  

2) Pressuring the QB, in today's NFL, is way more effective to defending the pass than high end cover guys. Give an NFL QB 3-5 seconds and he will pick even the best corners apart. I would much rather spend a high draft pick on Jermaine Johnson (or someone similar) who can make the QB uncomfortable. Sure, I will give you that. I agree. But its relative. If the Jets feel that Gardner is much higher on their board than the 3rd best Edge, why would they take an Edge over Gardner? Just because of positional importance? Furthermore, while there is good Edge depth in this draft- even after Hutch and Thib (Johnson, Karl., Walker). There is nobody like Gardner at the CB position. He is truly a special player and stands out as the top CB prospect in this draft.    

3) Today's NFL is won on offense and we are still way behind other teams with high end players on that side of the ball. I come back to the same thing I mentioned above. You don't just ignore your draft board and take someone based on positional need/value. In other words. If we are talking about taking a WR at 4- there IS no WR worth taking at 4 and you will not be able to convince me otherwise. While this draft is pretty deep with solid WR prospects, its a weak WR draft class, especially at the top. I'm not taking London, Wilson, Burks or Williams (coming off injury) at 4. Sorry, not happening. Maybe I take Ekwonu or Neal if he is at the top of my board, but I don't think that is what you meant by your statement.  

I get that people love his nickname. I get that the perceived value of drafting him is very high because of his talent. But let's get a premium player at a premium position if we're drafting top 10. Now if we want to trade back and take a corner, that's a different story.

An alpha, versatile, shut-down CB with size and elite stats and top notch measurables to back it up IS a premium player at a premium position. Its not just the undeniable talent and his nickname.    

There are a few things not 100% accurate (IMO) in your analysis. I'm not 100% on board with taking Gardner at 4. But if the Jets decided to go that route I would definitely not be disappointed. 

Also, it depends a lot on how the rest of the draft goes. Imagine this: The Jets draft Gardner at 4, a Pass Rusher at 10 (JJ? Walker? Karl? whomever). Then they move back up into the bottom of Rd. 1 by trading Hall or Echols and take Burks or Olave in the twenties. This addresses a lot of holes and keeps our our draft capital intact to take a LB/OT/S/TE- whatever in Rds. 2 and 3.    

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1 hour ago, Pointdexter said:

As a cb I have to admit he checks a lot of boxes. Just shocked at how badly this board wants us to spend a top 10 pick on him for the following reasons:

1) Premium man cover skills are not a must in this defensive scheme.

2) Pressuring the QB, in today's NFL, is way more effective to defending the pass than high end cover guys. Give an NFL QB 3-5 seconds and he will pick even the best corners apart. I would much rather spend a high draft pick on Jermaine Johnson (or someone similar) who can make the QB uncomfortable.

3) Today's NFL is won on offense and we are still way behind other teams with high end players on that side of the ball. 

I get that people love his nickname. I get that the perceived value of drafting him is very high because of his talent. But let's get a premium player at a premium position if we're drafting top 10. Now if we want to trade back and take a corner, that's a different story.

100 also consider our whole def system is based up front and pur CB by design is not as important than say the rec Ryan def, then it gets even worse.

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4 hours ago, freestater said:

Its not the nickname. Its the combination of size speed and production. He really is the "unicorn" of this draft. OL, edge or this frickin guy at 4 are the only acceptable answers imo.

Hey the Nickname is awesome too

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3 hours ago, Pointdexter said:

CB is still a premium position? With the rules favoring the offense so dramatically, even the best corners struggle at times. The days of Deion or Revis locking down one side of the field are done.

 

4 hours ago, freestater said:

Its not the nickname. Its the combination of size speed and production. He really is the "unicorn" of this draft. OL, edge or this frickin guy at 4 are the only acceptable answers imo.

Agree with both of these.

I don't think cornerback is nearly as important as it used to be, but Sauce is an undeniably great prospect.

I'd prefer JJ II, one of the OT's if Becky is truly done here, maybe roll-the-dice on Travon Walker for that crazy upside, but I wouldn't be upset with Sauce. 

He's on the short list of players that, if drafted by JD, will not elicit a 'Storming of the Bastille' moment from me.

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I feel like the pick at #4 will either be Ekwonu, Jermaine Johnson or Thibodeaux.  With that said, Sauce Gardner sitting there at #4 could also mean some appetizing trade bait sits in the Jets hand for a team that actually DOES value a man-cover CB.

This Draft is definitely deeper at Edge and maybe even OT in the 1st round than it is at CB so that could work in a trade-down scenario.  It feels like there's Gardner and then a small group of "other guys" that could start going in the mid to late 1st.  But with Edge, there will be at least 2 gone by #4 and likely another 2 to 3 gone by #15.  Then you get a whole other group of Edge guys at the end of the 1st into the middle of the 2nd.  There simply aren't 3 or 4 Sauce Gardners in this Draft.

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5 hours ago, Pointdexter said:

As a cb I have to admit he checks a lot of boxes. Just shocked at how badly this board wants us to spend a top 10 pick on him for the following reasons:

1) Premium man cover skills are not a must in this defensive scheme.

2) Pressuring the QB, in today's NFL, is way more effective to defending the pass than high end cover guys. Give an NFL QB 3-5 seconds and he will pick even the best corners apart. I would much rather spend a high draft pick on Jermaine Johnson (or someone similar) who can make the QB uncomfortable.

3) Today's NFL is won on offense and we are still way behind other teams with high end players on that side of the ball. 

I get that people love his nickname. I get that the perceived value of drafting him is very high because of his talent. But let's get a premium player at a premium position if we're drafting top 10. Now if we want to trade back and take a corner, that's a different story.

Other than QB, CB is the one position that can lose a game for you in a single instant.  It is a high value position.  Along with that, Sauce is the type of player that fits very well in Saleh's defense.  Sauce is a do-all type of CB.  If you are running a 4-2-5, you need CBs that are complete football players.  Cover skills, ability to be physical and above all, instincts and smarts that enable plays to be sniffed out and made any time any place.

He's a perfect fit.

Sauce and Ickey are the two best players in the draft. 

I don't like the edge rushers in this draft at all.

My big board.

Ekwonu

Sauce

Hamilton

London

If the the Jets get any one of them, it was a good draft.  If they manage two of the four, I build a JD shrine on my front lawn

 

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He’s not just a man cover corner. He’s really good in zone and has good ball skills. Saleh wants corners that can do it all because he wants to blitz on 3rd down. Sauce is perfect for our scheme.

I dont expect us to draft him, but I would be excited if we did.

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25 minutes ago, THE BARON said:

Other than QB, CB is the one position that can lose a game for you in a single instant.  It is a high value position.  Along with that, Sauce is the type of player that fits very well in Saleh's defense.  Sauce is a do-all type of CB.  If you are running a 4-2-5, you need CBs that are complete football players.  Cover skills, ability to be physical and above all, instincts and smarts that enable plays to be sniffed out and made any time any place.

He's a perfect fit.

Sauce and Ickey are the two best players in the draft. 

I don't like the edge rushers in this draft at all.

My big board.

Ekwonu

Sauce

Hamilton

London

If the the Jets get any one of them, it was a good draft.  If they manage two of the four, I build a JD shrine on my front lawn

 

We just signed Reed.whos been bragging about his stats matching up favorably withe the top corners in the league. Bryce Hall is a very good corner. Who's job does Gardner get. Cornerback is not a priority.No way!!

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The Jets played more man than zone last year. Played the 4th highest Cover 1 % in the entire league.  19th highest percentage of Cover 3.  And that’s with 2 rookies and a 2nd year player as the main corners.  I highly doubt they are just going to completely change this year with largely the same guys.  People need to stop with the system stuff.  Saleh isn’t the strict cover 3 guy everyone anticipated he would be.

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As for the player and the love for him.   He is one of the cleaner prospects in the draft.  Good tape, good college history and excellent work out numbers.   I do not want to draft a CB early but he is a way cleaner prospect than a lot of guys that will be there for us.

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17 minutes ago, genot said:

We just signed Reed.whos been bragging about his stats matching up favorably withe the top corners in the league. Bryce Hall is a very good corner. Who's job does Gardner get. Cornerback is not a priority.No way!!

I view Reed as competition for Hall. Not in the sense of starting vs not starting but Reed only has guaranteed money for 2 years, Hall has 2 years left on rookie deal. The better player deserves the extension at that point.

There were also rumblings of teams throwing at Hall because they knew he wouldn't intercept the ball.

Taking Sauce would lock down CB1 for the next 5 - 7 years. 

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7 minutes ago, bla bla bla said:

I view Reed as competition for Hall. Not in the sense of starting vs not starting but Reed only has guaranteed money for 2 years, Hall has 2 years left on rookie deal. The better player deserves the extension at that point.

There were also rumblings of teams throwing at Hall because they knew he wouldn't intercept the ball.

Taking Sauce would lock down CB1 for the next 5 - 7 years. 

You sure about that. Gardner hasn't played an NFL game yet. Without a pass rush, turnovers are much harder to come by. I think Hall is very good. Been involved in numerous breakups. With a pass rush, they might turn into interceptions.

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