There is no defense for drafting defense

[Snell41]

This team has been drafting defense for the past 2 decades. We have constantly thrown the majority of resources towards the defensive side of the ball, and being honest up until recently it worked. We’ve employed some of the better defenses in the NFL over a good portion of time. What has that gotten us? I’ve watched this team continuously struggle to score even 20 points. Ryan Fitzpatrick was literally the only entertaining offense. It’s awful. I’m so tired of losing games 20-6 with such unwatchable football. I can’t anymore. We’ve drafted 3 QB’s in a row and give them nothing. I don’t care if we go 0-17 next year if we’re scoring 30+ a game, give this kid a friggin chance and build an offense that puts up 30 a game. You can turn a defense around in one season. You rarely get chances to have a franchise QB. I’m the biggest critic of Zach, so give him every weapon possible to prove himself. The idea of draft “Sauce” or a Safety/DT makes me vomit. Draft offense. Draft playmakers. Multiple playmakers. A defensive HC shouldn’t need high round picks at every position to field a decent D.
 
 
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[Jetsfan80]

The Jets have four picks in the top 40.  Are you suggesting you’d be unhappy if Douglas used any of those on defense?  

[65 Toss Power Trap]

So OT at #4 and WR at #10?

What are you doing with #35 and #38?

I do think since Edges are so expensive in FA, and since this draft has Edges, Jets have to pick one up.

[Snell41]

The Jets have four picks in the top 40.  Are you suggesting you’d be unhappy if Douglas used any of those on defense?  

Yes I am. I want 2 WR’s, so when Elijah Moore pulls a hammy we’re moving Corey Davis into rotation instead of Vyncent friggin Smith. I want a TE that puts Uzomah on the bench to be the solid backup he should be. I want a Center that puts McGovern on the bench to be the fine backup Center that he is. I’m gonna have to gamble on Becton actually showing up, but an offense with a rotation of 2 premier rookie WR’s, a premier TE, along with Moore, Davis, and Carter should be downright unstoppable if they choose the right players.


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[derp]

What if the defense for drafting defense is that this draft’s offensive players are offensive?

[Barry McCockinner]

I think the fact that our defense was absolutely atrocious last year is a decent defense though.

[AFJF]

Worst defense in franchise history that gave up 500 points for the first time ever after going offense early and often last year sounds like a pretty good defense for drafting defense IMO.

[Snell41]

I think the fact that our defense was absolutely atrocious last year is a decent defense though.

Shore up that defense again while we watch another bust with no weapons struggle to put up 10 points. If we’re going to lose games don’t you at least want to be entertained?


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[BurntDice]

If there was a chase in this draft then I’d be on board with taking him at 4, however there is not. This is an ol/dl heavy top 10 picks. 
 

Don’t need ol this year so that leaves dl for one of the picks most likely. Then what? These wrs are good, but is forcing a guy at 10 or 4 better than taking a corner like sauce who actually belongs in the top 10? I don’t think so. 

It’s just a hard draft to go offense with these high picks. 

In the second guys like Dotson, maybe Burks, Pierce, London  etc will be there. 
 

Im a huge wandale Robinson fan and would love to snag him in the 3rd. 
 

Sauce at 4 Johnson at 10 London/Burks at 35 Dean at 38 and Wandale Robinson in the 3rd would make me incredibly happy 

[Barry McCockinner]

17 minutes ago, Snell41 said:

 

Shore up that defense again while we watch another bust with no weapons struggle to put up 10 points. If we’re going to lose games don’t you at least want to be entertained?


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We have 4 top 40 picks. We can pick a couple of solid offensive and defensive guys there.

[Green Ghost]

Saleh said it himself today in his PC… we had the worst defense in football last year. 
We need to fix that. 
Not to beat a dead horse again, but our offense looked pretty damn good when Zach was out last year. I give him a break because it was his rookie year, but he needs to step up this year.

[Snell41]

Drake London
Jameson Williams (best WR in the draft, we’ll have the luxury to let him heal with London, Davis, and Moore)
Linderbaum

Get me those 3 and I’ll concede our 4th pick for Defense as long as you promise me Jelani Woods later. I think he’s gonna be a stud.


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[Butterfield]

Balance is a good thing.  I want some offensive players too, but nothing wrong with taking a couple defenders, if they are best player available.  I don’t want all defense though either.  

[AFJF]

1 minute ago, Snell41 said:

Drake London
Jameson Williams (best WR in the draft, we’ll have the luxury to let him heal with London, Davis, and Moore)
Linderbaum

Get me those 3 and I’ll concede our 4th pick for Defense as long as you promise me Jelani Woods later. I think he’s gonna be a stud.


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You may want to avoid watching the draft this year.  

[Maxman]

24 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

The Jets have four picks in the top 40.  Are you suggesting you’d be unhappy if Douglas used any of those on defense?  

I think he means ever again.

[Snell41]

I think he means ever again.

When we build an offense that starts dropping 30 points a game you can start drafting defense. I’m resigned to the fact that watching Jets football is watching losing football. At least let it be entertaining.


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[jetstream23]

Go edge at 4, OL at 10, then trade 35 and 38 for DK Metcalf and call it a day!

[jetsons]

Edge @ 4... BPA- OL/WR/CB/LB @ 10 or trade down... 35 & 38 see @ 10   

[65 Toss Power Trap]

5 minutes ago, jetstream23 said:

Go edge at 4, OL at 10, then trade 35 and 38 for DK Metcalf and call it a day!

Count me in.

[BurntDice]

5 minutes ago, Snell41 said:

 

When we build an offense that starts dropping 30 points a game you can start drafting defense. I’m resigned to the fact that watching Jets football is watching losing football. At least let it be entertaining.


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Zach sucked last year. Hell most likely play better in year 2. When he was out the offense played very well when they had a healthy wr room. An improved Zach (hopefully), better ol play, 2 starting quality tes, the wr room should be improved based on health alone. Throw in a 2nd round wr and another rb and this offense is looking pretty good. 

[Snell41]

Go edge at 4, OL at 10, then trade 35 and 38 for DK Metcalf and call it a day!

They’ll never give Metcalf for that. They’ll want the 10 back. Stop and think, can you imagine an offense with London and Williams with Moore and Corey Davis as a 4th option. A TE like McBride? We’d be a juggernaut. The risk is Becton, I think JD should have to ride with his decision. He doesn’t get to buy insurance 2 years later with another top pick. The other risk is Zach, and again if Zach can’t succeed with all those weapons you have your answer. Top tier QB’s seem to be jumping ship every year and we’ll literally have a Ferrari of an offense for whoever that may be to step right in. On Defense we have some players returning and signed a couple decent players. Enough to be decent, which is the best the defense needs to be.


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[Green Ghost]

15 minutes ago, jetstream23 said:

Go edge at 4, OL at 10, then trade 35 and 38 for DK Metcalf and call it a day!

I think our OL is at a point now where we shouldn’t have to use a #10 pick. I’d be sick to my stomach if we did that. I know we all have concerns about Becton right now, but we can’t misuse valuable resources on our best position group in this draft.

The Metcalf trade isn’t happening, and to be honest I don’t think it would affect our W/L as positively down the road as hitting on #35&38 would.
We aren’t competitive right now, so we really need to begin to fill out this roster if we’re going to compete within the division (much less the Conference) in a few years.

[naturalscience]

I think we're gonna come away with  wr(2?), te, rb and depth OL.

Really think it's edge at 4.

WR at 10.

Another WR and TE in the second.

RB in the 3rd. To me it was telling they got 2 pro bowl talent guards. Sounds to me they want a running game to take some pressure off the kid along with bringing in 2 reasonable talent TEs.

Developmental OL in the 5th.

I don't think they Go after London. He's basically another safety blanket like a TE and we added 2 of those plus I think they look to draft the replacement for one of them this year.. I think they seek out a scheme fit WR.

 

[Snell41]

I think we're gonna come away with  wr(2?), te, rb and depth OL.
Really think it's edge at 4.
WR at 10.
Another WR and TE in the second.
RB in the 3rd. To me it was telling they got 2 pro bowl talent guards. Sounds to me they want a running game to take some pressure off the kid along with bringing in 2 reasonable talent TEs.
Developmental OL in the 5th.
I don't think they Go after London. He's basically another safety blanket like a TE and we added 2 of those plus I think they look to draft the replacement for one of them this year.. I think they seek out a scheme fit WR.
 

Last year we were jumping for joy to see Lawson lined up with Quinnen, going on about how dominant our DL would be. We signed Franklin-Meyers to a pricey extension. What, because we lose Fotukasi it all went to sh*t? Please. Our LB corp is poor, but I don’t want top 10 picks thrown there. Safety and CB can be bolstered via camp cuts. I don’t expect a top 5 D, but it’s certainly middle of the pack capable.


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[Darnold's Forehead]

1 hour ago, Snell41 said:

 

Yes I am. I want 2 WR’s, so when Elijah Moore pulls a hammy we’re moving Corey Davis into rotation instead of Vyncent friggin Smith. I want a TE that puts Uzomah on the bench to be the solid backup he should be. I want a Center that puts McGovern on the bench to be the fine backup Center that he is. I’m gonna have to gamble on Becton actually showing up, but an offense with a rotation of 2 premier rookie WR’s, a premier TE, along with Moore, Davis, and Carter should be downright unstoppable if they choose the right players.


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You mistakenly think this team has the luxury to put such players ‘on the bench’.  It would be extremely irresponsible to do as you say.

[Jetty]

I am willing to bet that #4 will be a pass rusher. We won’t go WR until the 2nd round. None of these WRs are even better than Moore.

[JohnnyLV]

2 hours ago, Snell41 said:

 

They’ll never give Metcalf for that. They’ll want the 10 back. Stop and think, can you imagine an offense with London and Williams with Moore and Corey Davis as a 4th option. A TE like McBride? We’d be a juggernaut. The risk is Becton, I think JD should have to ride with his decision. He doesn’t get to buy insurance 2 years later with another top pick. The other risk is Zach, and again if Zach can’t succeed with all those weapons you have your answer. Top tier QB’s seem to be jumping ship every year and we’ll literally have a Ferrari of an offense for whoever that may be to step right in. On Defense we have some players returning and signed a couple decent players. Enough to be decent, which is the best the defense needs to be.


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I am with you. I think the Jets can trade back a little from 4 and get maybe a 1st next year and/or a 2nd. I would totally take Jameson. He had a minor ACL,  I think JD is committed but not enough to do this even though I think it will be the right thing. Nothing is more important than helping Zach. Jets should learn from how we handled Sam and Sanchez.

[Larz]

Ummm

the last 2 draft’s started 

LT, WR, QB, OG, WR

?????

[kdels62]

1 hour ago, Larz said:

Ummm

the last 2 draft’s started 

LT, WR, QB, OG, WR

?????

Their priciest FA signings the last 2 years were:

OT, C, WR, Edge, CB, TE, TE

[doitny]

there is going to be a run on WRs in the 1st rd after everyone seen how expensive it got to keep a good one. i expect 7-8 gone by the time we pick in rd 2. 1 or 2 of them will probably be good. we are going to regret waiting to rd 2 to pick one and all because some think 10 is to high for a WR in this draft. 

[jamesr]

6 hours ago, Green Ghost said:

Saleh said it himself today in his PC… we had the worst defense in football last year. 
We need to fix that. 
Not to beat a dead horse again, but our offense looked pretty damn good when Zach was out last year. I give him a break because it was his rookie year, but he needs to step up this year.

Our defense gave up 504 points last year. 

Only two offenses in the league scored more than 504 points last year. (TB and Dallas).

But people will still post that defense is irrelevant and we just have to outscore all our opponents by having an amazing unstoppable offense. Like the highest scoring offense last year maybe? (Dallas, 530 points). Worked so well for them!  

EDIT to add - TB and Dallas gave up 353 and 358 points last year to go with their top scoring offenses. That gives point differentials of +158 and +172. For us to even have half that margin, with how many points we shipped last year, we'd need to score 583 points (just under 35 points every game).

Last year we scored 310, so we're looking at an extra 273 points on offense, or 16 more points per game. And if we really want to be elite we'd need twice that!    

[Snell41]

Ummm
the last 2 draft’s started 
LT, WR, QB, OG, WR

One of those WR’s couldn’t get on the field over Jeff and Vyncent Smith, the other missed almost half a season for a pulled hamstring. We need weapons, we have none at the moment. Mims was so bad that if he wasn’t a 2nd round pick he’d have been cut. We need to keep drafting weapons until some of them actually start proving out. To go into yet another season where one injury completely decimated our offense is criminal, and the worst of it is posters like you who pounded the table for CB’s and S’s in this draft will be the first in line to give Zach a pass for sucking again because we have no weapons. How is this ******* team enjoyable to you? Jesus Christ if an opponent scores 24 points we’re going to lose, I don’t care that we give up 40 a game right now. Throw all these picks into D so we can give up less points to lose 24-6 instead of 40-6.


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[Snell41]

Our defense gave up 504 points last year. 
Only two offenses in the league scored more than 504 points last year. (TB and Dallas).
But people will still post that defense is irrelevant and we just have to outscore all our opponents by having an amazing unstoppable offense. Like the highest scoring offense last year maybe? (Dallas, 530 points). Worked so well for them!  
EDIT to add - TB and Dallas gave up 353 and 358 points last year to go with their top scoring offenses. That gives point differentials of +158 and +172. For us to even have half that margin, with how many points we shipped last year, we'd need to score 583 points (just under 35 points every game).
Last year we scored 310, so we're looking at an extra 273 points on offense, or 16 more points per game. And if we really want to be elite we'd need twice that!    

We don’t need a top D, we need a top 15 D. Top 20 even. We have that simply from the return of injured players and a couple decent signings in FA. We signed Carl Lawson to a big contract and gave Franklin Meyers a big extension and now we’re already drafting a replacement? We haven’t had a homegrown top 10 offensive player since the 1960’s. How is this tolerable to you people? How do you stand drafting a QB top 3 twice now, and the best receiver we gave either QB is Corey ******* Davis. How can you stomach that? Yes, let’s draft defende again, I hope it’s a Safety and DT with 4 and 10, you idiots deserve that.


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[jamesr]

2 minutes ago, Snell41 said:

 

We don’t need a top D, we need a top 15 D. Top 20 even. We have that simply from the return of injured players. We signed Carl Lawson to a big contract and gave Franklin Meyers a big extension and now we’re already drafting a replacement? We haven’t had a homegrown top 10 offensive player since the 1960’s. How is this tolerable to you people? How do you stand drafting a QB top 3 twice now, and the best receiver we gave either QB is Corey ******* Davis. How can you stomach that? Yes, let’s draft defende again, I hope it’s a Safety and DT with 4 and 10, you idiots deserve that.


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Don't get me wrong - I'm dead set that we need a WR with one of our first two picks. I also want us to draft another RB, TE and WR later in the draft to build a continuous pipeline as these are guys that we can rotate in and develop behind our (presumably) shorter term FA signings.

But to say that we are fine on D with what we have is an overstatement. I'm seeing in almost every post about our top 2 picks that we have to draft an OT because Becton missed last year - and yet our D will be elevated by Lawson who also missed all of last year and no-one knows what he will be like after is injury. JFM is also likely to split time at DE and DT (DE on early downs and DT on 3rd down / obvious passing situations) so we do need other DEs to boost the pass rush. I couldn't actually name any backup DE on the team without going to look at Sarge's latest roster updates. This still leaves us highly susceptible to injury and having to sign the Shaq Lawson type to fill a starter role.

I'm not looking for a super unit on D. Top 20 would be fine for this year. But to get to that Top 20 mark - based on scoring defenses in 2021 - we'd need to cut our points against down by 106. (Pittsburgh were #20 on defense with 398, we were 32nd with 504). That's pretty much 1 fewer TD every game just to get to a degree of decent. To get to top 15 would mean 132 fewer points against. Lawson coming back (and losing Foley) isn't going to move the needle that much.

I'm pleased we've made moves at CB and S in FA to improve those units as it makes us less reliant on drafting these positions - I'll be happy with Day 2 / 3 picks here but not premium picks. My ideal 1st round is Edge and WR. Round 2 is a lot less clear but another offensive piece (OL or "weapon") coupled with a LB would make sense.

Drafts don't need to be all one side of the ball or the other - what we need this year is balanced impact on both sides of the ball.

 

[Snell41]

Don't get me wrong - I'm dead set that we need a WR with one of our first two picks. I also want us to draft another RB, TE and WR later in the draft to build a continuous pipeline as these are guys that we can rotate in and develop behind our (presumably) shorter term FA signings.
But to say that we are fine on D with what we have is an overstatement. I'm seeing in almost every post about our top 2 picks that we have to draft an OT because Becton missed last year - and yet our D will be elevated by Lawson who also missed all of last year and no-one knows what he will be like after is injury. JFM is also likely to split time at DE and DT (DE on early downs and DT on 3rd down / obvious passing situations) so we do need other DEs to boost the pass rush. I couldn't actually name any backup DE on the team without going to look at Sarge's latest roster updates. This still leaves us highly susceptible to injury and having to sign the Shaq Lawson type to fill a starter role.
I'm not looking for a super unit on D. Top 20 would be fine for this year. But to get to that Top 20 mark - based on scoring defenses in 2021 - we'd need to cut our points against down by 106. (Pittsburgh were #20 on defense with 398, we were 32nd with 504). That's pretty much 1 fewer TD every game just to get to a degree of decent. To get to top 15 would mean 132 fewer points against. Lawson coming back (and losing Foley) isn't going to move the needle that much.
I'm pleased we've made moves at CB and S in FA to improve those units as it makes us less reliant on drafting these positions - I'll be happy with Day 2 / 3 picks here but not premium picks. My ideal 1st round is Edge and WR. Round 2 is a lot less clear but another offensive piece (OL or "weapon") coupled with a LB would make sense.
Drafts don't need to be all one side of the ball or the other - what we need this year is balanced impact on both sides of the ball.
 

Again, if you read my post I clearly said we have to roll with Becton. JD should not have the luxury of throwing 1st round picks at mistakes he made barely 2 years ago. He signed Lawson to be our pass rusher. He extended Franklin Meyers to man the other side. He drafted Becton in the first round 2 years ago. For better or worse we roll with those guys. Our first 2 rounds need to go full offense. We have not had a consistent top 10 offense since the 1960’s, why did we waste a #2 overall pick on QB?


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