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OT: Terrell Owens Vs Randy Moss


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2 hours ago, Smashmouth said:

In 15 playoff games Randy Moss had 54 catches for 977 yards and 10 TD's 

 

That's pretty pedestrian if you ask me. Terrell Owens playoff Numbers were not so great either in 12 games he was 54 751 5

Plenty of WR's eclipsed those numbers and that's when it counts

 

Jerry Rice Postseason numbers (assuming "statmuse" is a trustworthy website).  

Rice is the GOAT WR and it's not up for debate.

https://www.statmuse.com/nfl/ask/jerry-rice-playoffs-stats

image.thumb.png.e21fe2d6c59e37b26d324c710ea9b7ea.png

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8 hours ago, TuscanyTile2 said:

I know a lot of people think Randy Moss is the 2nd best WR of all time.  I'm wondering if people think TO is comparable to (or even better than) Moss.  From my recollection, I think I'd take TO (his Superbowl performance puts him over the top for me).  Moss might've had "higher highs" but he had a down period in his career (prior to reviving it with the Pats).  I checked the stats and they're remarkably close.

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RANDY MOSS:

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/M/MossRa00.htm

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TERRELL OWENS:

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/O/OwenTe00.htm

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Had this conversation a few times over the years and it's not even close IMO.  I'm taking TO every time.  As much as he was an a-hole, you knew you were getting 100% every time he stepped on the field whereas Moss admitted to taking games off if he didn't feel like playing.

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3 minutes ago, AFJF said:

Had this conversation a few times over the years and it's not even close IMO.  I'm taking TO every time.  As much as he was an a-hole, you knew you were getting 100% every time he stepped on the field whereas Moss admitted to taking games off if he didn't feel like playing.

Give me Al Toon and Larry Fitzgerald over those two all day long 

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Randy Moss is the GOAT WR.

Jerry put up better stats for longer, but he also played for a coach and on a team that was the actual embodiment of “playing chess when the rest of the league was playing checkers”. 

Megatron and TO are honorable mentions. Larry Fitz falls just outside of the top 5 because he simply wasn’t as physically gifted.

When Randy wanted to be “on”, he was the best ever, and was nearly impossible to defend. He was also must see TV. 

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4 hours ago, TuscanyTile2 said:

Jerry Rice Postseason numbers (assuming "statmuse" is a trustworthy website).  

Rice is the GOAT WR and it's not up for debate.

https://www.statmuse.com/nfl/ask/jerry-rice-playoffs-stats

image.thumb.png.e21fe2d6c59e37b26d324c710ea9b7ea.png

When arguing WR's I don't even put Rice in the argument .

 

Here is Rice 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Here is everyone else.

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12 minutes ago, greenwichjetfan said:

Randy Moss is the GOAT WR.

Jerry put up better stats for longer, but he also played for a coach and on a team that was the actual embodiment of “playing chess when the rest of the league was playing checkers”. 

Megatron and TO are honorable mentions. Larry Fitz falls just outside of the top 5 because he simply wasn’t as physically gifted.

When Randy wanted to be “on”, he was the best ever, and was nearly impossible to defend. He was also must see TV. 

Jerry also put up numbers in a time where passing was far more difficult.   Jerry won a league MVP.  Jerry won a SB MVP.  Jerry never quit on his team, never took years off.

Jerry is so far above anyone else in the last 50 years it is ridiculous.

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People forget but Moss' first game as a Pat was against the Jets at home. I was there and I'm sure plenty of others here were too. Moss had those weird years in Oakland and everyone thought he was past his prime when the Pats got him. Jets were coming off a strong year too, so I don't think most Jets fans made too much of him getting to the Pats, not to say it wasn't concerning but it also wasn't scream-inducing either.

Anyways, Moss had a few catches but in the 3rd quarter Moss caught this ridiculous bomb from Brady and the air went out of the stadium almost completely. Like not for the game, but for the entire season. It's hard to explain but when Moss caught that ball you knew something was up. Everyone reacted immediately to it in a real different way because we all knew the caliber of player he was and what the Jets were in for that year if Moss was back. 

I can't say I've ever seen any other player draw that type of reaction from a crowd before in any sport. 

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13 minutes ago, RutgersJetFan said:

People forget but Moss' first game as a Pat was against the Jets at home. I was there and I'm sure plenty of others here were too. Moss had those weird years in Oakland and everyone thought he was past his prime when the Pats got him. Jets were coming off a strong year too, so I don't think most Jets fans made too much of him getting to the Pats, not to say it wasn't concerning but it also wasn't scream-inducing either.

Anyways, Moss had a few catches but in the 3rd quarter Moss caught this ridiculous bomb from Brady and the air went out of the stadium almost completely. Like not for the game, but for the entire season. It's hard to explain but when Moss caught that ball you knew something was up. Everyone reacted immediately to it in a real different way because we all knew the caliber of player he was and what the Jets were in for that year if Moss was back. 

I can't say I've ever seen any other player draw that type of reaction from a crowd before in any sport. 

So here's the play at 2:55. If you turn the sound up you can even hear the crowd act like someone just hit a game winning shot in the Final Four. The way Moss just blows by Revis is nuts and then he just completely goes on to smoke Coleman, Vilma, and Barrett, shouldn't even be possible. When he was on his game nobody on the field could touch him. Even Simms talks right after about how the Jets are playing as safe a defense as you can possibly play here and it doesn't matter.

 

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I would not take TO ever. He was possibly the biggest cancer in NFL history. He single handedly ruined numerous franchises.  Play on the field doesn't make up for the scorched earth he left off it.  He was just a horrific person. You can't be considered a great WR when you take down every QB you play with.  Moss had some issues with effort and immaturity on bad teams, but Owens was a complete a$$h*%#.  

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12 hours ago, TuscanyTile2 said:

I know a lot of people think Randy Moss is the 2nd best WR of all time.  I'm wondering if people think TO is comparable to (or even better than) Moss.  From my recollection, I think I'd take TO (his Superbowl performance puts him over the top for me).  Moss might've had "higher highs" but he had a down period in his career (prior to reviving it with the Pats).  I checked the stats and they're remarkably close.

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RANDY MOSS:

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/M/MossRa00.htm

image.png.fa01a15747910ed5657c9aa90dc289f5.png

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TERRELL OWENS:

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/O/OwenTe00.htm

image.png.b02bc50a7ba3e4f0a98379cfb3520004.png

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Idk but I do know TO never get enough credit.

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4 hours ago, BornJetsFan1983 said:

Idk but I do know TO never get enough credit.

Owens is the best receiver I've seen play. Incredible in every area of the game. Would drop the odd pass but almost always made up for it a play or two later. Moss was obviously the better deep threat but in the era where guys were murdered across the middle Owens would make plays there time and again. He was just a beast after the catch as well. The complete receiver. 

I think if Moss never got the move to that crazy New England offence to play with the GOAT then this wouldn't even be a debate. It still pisses me off that they got him so cheap and even restructured his contract to take a stupidly low salary. Everyone and their mother could see he would turn it around in New England. 

TO would have been incredible with the Pats. The QB can be the difference between a HOF WR and a guy being seen as a JAG, it's that important and Owens never played with the absolute best. As it is he was dominant under the best QB's he played with - McNabb and Romo, especially McNabb in that first year. TO took the blame for that falling apart but everything I've heard about it seems to suggest McNabb was equally if not more responsible for alienating Owens. It sucks he got injured in 2004 as that was an incredible team and Owens took them to another level. Even with one leg he was their best player in the Superbowl. 

 

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4 hours ago, Joe Willie White Shoes said:

I would not take TO ever. He was possibly the biggest cancer in NFL history. He single handedly ruined numerous franchises.  Play on the field doesn't make up for the scorched earth he left off it.  He was just a horrific person. You can't be considered a great WR when you take down every QB you play with.  Moss had some issues with effort and immaturity on bad teams, but Owens was a complete a$$h*%#.  

Owens never quite literally quit on a team like Moss did.

He needed a strong character at QB and Donovan McNabb was anything but. Jeff Garcia can thank Owens for the few good seasons he had. 

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19 hours ago, David Harris said:

Unicorn Moss by a mile.  Unparalleled gifts. 

ive often thought Moss was better than Rice.  On just pure gifts and ability its no question. Im not sure anyone could do what that man did on a football field.  Guys had to play 10 yards off... IN THE NFL. thats wild.  Then people forget early in his career where he'd catch slants and take them to the house. Guy was insane. 

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11 hours ago, chirorob said:

Jerry also put up numbers in a time where passing was far more difficult.   Jerry won a league MVP.  Jerry won a SB MVP.  Jerry never quit on his team, never took years off.

Jerry is so far above anyone else in the last 50 years it is ridiculous.

That’s precisely my point. In a time when passing was difficult, he played on a team with a HoF QB and a coach that practically invented the modern day passing attack that every team runs. Put differently, Rice got to play in today’s wide open passing offense when no one else in the league was playing it or knew how to defend it.

I’m not taking anything away from Rice or Owens. Both are incredible and are in my top 3 of all time.
- I loved watching Owens play and I always made it a point to trade away my defense for him in Madden every year.
- Rice was drafted a year before I was born, but he played on the same team as my hometown hero Steve Young, so I followed both of their careers intently from a young age and loved Rice even when he went to Oakland.

Still, when you’re talking about the scariest receiver to defend, it goes to Moss and I don’t think it’s even close. Looking at overall stats doesn’t do Moss justice, because he took so many years and plays off - and that definitely is a huge mark against him. But so many ppl in this thread alone have commented about the fact that Rice and Owens gave 110% on the field every time while Moss didn’t. And even then, Moss is considered top 2 or 3 all time. Imagine if he had given it 100% every play?

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4 hours ago, Irish Jet said:

Owens never quite literally quit on a team like Moss did.

He needed a strong character at QB and Donovan McNabb was anything but. Jeff Garcia can thank Owens for the few good seasons he had. 

Owens not only quit on the Eagles, he tore them apart.  He quit on the 49ers and defamed Garcia.  He undid a trade to the Ravens and forced his way onto the Eagles and signed a contract in 2004.  Four months later, he wanted out of that contract and then refused to play in 2005, starting a feud with McNabb.  He started wearing Cowboys attire while still a member of the Eagles.  He claimed the Eagles needed Favre as QB.  He was eventually suspended by the Eagles.  He is the worst teammate in the history of the NFL - the epitome of the selfish self absorbed athlete.  I would not want him on my team ever and I never ever would have voted for him for the HOF. He makes Jamal Adams seem like teammate of the year. 

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It's been said, fairly, that Moss had moments, even games where he dogged it.

But life on the line, a highly motivated Randy was capable of doing more than any other WR, including Rice.  Height and Speed matter.  His upside was literally the moon.

Randy Moss Reflects On 2005 “Lambeau Moon” Towards Packers Fan In Playoff  Game and Joe Buck Losing His Mind About It – BlackSportsOnline

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5 minutes ago, nycdan said:

It's been said, fairly, that Moss had moments, even games where he dogged it.

But life on the line, a highly motivated Randy was capable of doing more than any other WR, including Rice.  Height and Speed matter.  His upside was literally the moon.

Randy Moss Reflects On 2005 “Lambeau Moon” Towards Packers Fan In Playoff  Game and Joe Buck Losing His Mind About It – BlackSportsOnline

I mean - he single handedly made Noodle Arm a first round QB. There is no higher praise you can give a WR.

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2 hours ago, greenwichjetfan said:

Still, when you’re talking about the scariest receiver to defend, it goes to Moss and I don’t think it’s even close. Looking at overall stats doesn’t do Moss justice, because he took so many years and plays off - and that definitely is a huge mark against him. But so many ppl in this thread alone have commented about the fact that Rice and Owens gave 110% on the field every time while Moss didn’t. And even then, Moss is considered top 2 or 3 all time. Imagine if he had given it 100% every play?

Moss is the most physically gifted player I have ever seen, but the fact is he took years off, and Rice is better.   Rice's #s are so far ahead of everyone else it's a joke.

If Namath wasn't drunk, and didn't injure himself water skiing, he would have been an all timer.   If Mickey Mantle played sober, he may have passed Babe Ruth in Home Runs.   But they didn't.

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13 hours ago, Jets0712 said:

Jerry Rice is the Goat
Moss & T.O in my opinion are 2&3 respectively.
Brandon Marshall is very underrated and for a 7/8 year span put up some incredible stats


Sent from my iPhone using JetNation.com mobile app

Meh.

Rice was great but his stats are really bolstered by longevity (which is its own positive). Breaking it down by season, he is really isnt much higher than the others.

Rice averaged 82 receptions and 10 TD's per season.

Moss averaged 75 receptions and 12 TD's per season.

Fitzgerlald averaged 84 rceptions and 7 TD's per season.

Just examples.

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Randi Moss made Cullpeper look like an elite QB.   He was amazing and it was a lot less about him than Owens was about Owens.  I would take Moss all day long over Owens.

Rice was simply the best.  Rice was everything.   He had the benifit of playing for who I think is the best HC in modern football in Walsh.  Walsh understood passing concepts and how to maximize yards after the catch better than anyone.  Rice was the perfect instrument.  He also had a QB who's timing and delivery of the football was masterful.  

I didn't see him play but Don Hutson should be in the conversation.  Don Hutson retired in the 40's.  His 99 TD receptions weren't surpassed for 40 years and he had double the amount of receptions as the next closest receiver.   He was the most dominating offensive player of his era.  Babe Ruth domination.

Lance Alworth may have had the two best seasons in a row of any WR.  In 65 and 66 in an era where the QB and WR weren't protected he averaged 20 yards per, 110 yards per and 1 TD per game.  He was the first AFL only player elected to the HOF.   He was all pro 6 consecutive seasons.  Staggering numbers for the era.

I see Megatron and Fitzgerald as the next level.  Great just not as great. 

 

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14 hours ago, greenwichjetfan said:

Randy Moss is the GOAT WR.

Jerry put up better stats for longer, but he also played for a coach and on a team that was the actual embodiment of “playing chess when the rest of the league was playing checkers”. 

Megatron and TO are honorable mentions. Larry Fitz falls just outside of the top 5 because he simply wasn’t as physically gifted.

When Randy wanted to be “on”, he was the best ever, and was nearly impossible to defend. He was also must see TV. 

Jerry Rice put together 10 All pro seasons in his first 12 years.   Jerry Rice wasn't a compilier of stats.  He was flat out the best WR in the NFL during his prime.  He had a long prime because he worked like a dog to keep himself in shape and he was a student of the game.  Granted his HC is probably the best HC in the NFL modern era but Rice's production was undeniable.  Randy Moss put up 3 all pro seasons before he went to Oakland.  That was in a 7 year period.  He had a total of 1 more with the Pats.  

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4 minutes ago, Biggs said:

Jerry Rice put together 10 All pro seasons in his first 12 years.   Jerry Rice wasn't a compilier of stats.  He was flat out the best WR in the NFL during his prime.  He had a long prime because he worked like a dog to keep himself in shape and he was a student of the game.  Granted his HC is probably the best HC in the NFL modern era but Rice's production was undeniable.  Randy Moss put up 3 all pro seasons before he went to Oakland.  That was in a 7 year period.  He had a total of 1 more with the Pats.  

I think you are off regarding Moss and his pro bowls.  He had 5 in his first 6 years in MIN and made All Pro 1st team 3 of those years.  He was as dominant in that stretch as anyone.

Edit:  Sorry, I see you did say All Pro.  My bad.

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3 minutes ago, nycdan said:

I think you are off regarding Moss and his pro bowls.  He had 5 in his first 6 years in MIN and made All Pro 1st team 3 of those years.  He was as dominant in that stretch as anyone.

Edit:  Sorry, I see you did say All Pro.  My bad.

No problem.  Personally based on my lying eyes Moss was the best I ever saw.  Now that said when you look at the stat line and the all pro's and consistency of Rice it's really not close.  Putting together 2 runs of 5 in a row All pro seasons is a staggering accomplishment.  It's not a compilier stat it's I'm the badest dude on the planet X 10.

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