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Jameson Williams


FidelioJet
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12 minutes ago, derp said:

I think it's less of an issue if you have *someone* who can beat press, but when your entire offense grinds to a halt when defenses press you I think it's noteworthy. Speed also has very little to actually zero correlation to pro success, gets lots of guys overdrafted. I like him but he's got significant warts.

The Jets system is predicated on run first to set up the play action passes with pre snap motion.  If the Jets can establish a run game anyone pressing Jamo, E Moore, C Davis and then bite easy 6 every time.

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2 minutes ago, Lupz27 said:

The Jets system is predicated on run first to set up the play action passes with pre snap motion.  If the Jets can establish a run game anyone pressing Jamo, E Moore, C Davis and then bite easy 6 every time.

If it was that easy they shouldn't have struggled with press so much last year, and I'm not sure a skinny receiver who was inefficient against press in college where guys typically aren't that good at it will have success against it at the pro level.

Guys can't beat press defenses can dedicate more resources to the run game as well and the whole field shrinks. We saw this last year. It's not just magically going away.

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6 hours ago, FidelioJet said:

6', 5'10", 5'8" three of your top 4 WR's with G. Wilson...ugh...

with your #1 RB being 5'8"

I am sorry, but I just can't get on the Garrett Wilson bandwagon for this team.

 

 

Jets fans need to get over this obsession with length at the receiver position.

Route running, the ability to separate, boundary recognition and the ability to reel it in during contested situations are what matters.

I’ll take a shade under 6’0 Garrett Wilson over a shade under 6’4 Drake London all day.

What good is your 6’4 frame on the outside if you run 4.7 and every pass outside the hashmarks is going to translate into a 50/50 ball? 

Speed kills, especially in the NFL.

There’s a reason the Jets were willing to give up two high 2nd’s, a high 3rd and dish out a $30 million a year contract for a 28 year old, 5’9 Tyreek Hill.

After that news coming to fruition, I don’t buy for a second that they would spend a Top 10 pick on a shot in the dark who is literally the exact opposite in every conceivable fashion.

We’re going to trade for a wideout within the next 10 days and all of this stuff will be moot anyway.

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4 hours ago, Gangrene said:

Daniel Jeremiah does give me pause when he says that although he likes Jameson, but Jameson does not have natural hands. I presume he means he's not a natural catcher of the ball. He adds that receivers without natural hands are the ones that he has found, in the past, most likely to bust.

I think Jameson is worth the gamble of waiting for him to recover at 10 if he's available; but I would double up with Alec Pierce, Christian Watson or Treylon Burks, if one of them falls to the second round.

Not my favorite WR but I have to think that the Jets might go Drake London at 10.

It's funny you focus on hands and then mention Pierce. To me he is not a natural catcher of the ball. This has jumped out in the tape I've watched. Anyone else notice this?

No issue taking a chance on him in the second, especially if doubling up. 

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28 minutes ago, Untouchable said:

Jets fans need to get over this obsession with length at the receiver position.

Route running, the ability to separate, boundary recognition and the ability to reel it in during contested situations are what matters.

I’ll take a shade under 6’0 Garrett Wilson over a shade under 6’4 Drake London all day.

What good is your 6’4 frame on the outside if you run 4.7 and every pass outside the hashmarks is going to translate into a 50/50 ball? 

Speed kills, especially in the NFL.

There’s a reason the Jets were willing to give up two high 2nd’s, a high 3rd and dish out a $30 million a year contract for a 28 year old, 5’9 Tyreek Hill.

After that news coming to fruition, I don’t buy for a second that they would spend a Top 10 pick on a shot in the dark who is literally the exact opposite in every conceivable fashion.

We’re going to trade for a wideout within the next 10 days and all of this stuff will be moot anyway.

I was with you till that last line.

Who do you predict we're trading for, and at what cost?

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32 minutes ago, derp said:

If it was that easy they shouldn't have struggled with press so much last year, and I'm not sure a skinny receiver who was inefficient against press in college where guys typically aren't that good at it will have success against it at the pro level.

Guys can't beat press defenses can dedicate more resources to the run game as well and the whole field shrinks. We saw this last year. It's not just magically going away.

The Jets couldn’t establish the run game, play action didn’t work nobody ever bit.  It was our first year in a system with a rookie QB and most weapons either injured or also rookies.  Not hard to imagine that all can change this season.  You don’t see the Chiefs or 49ers getting pressed much when they are working that run game.

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2 minutes ago, Lupz27 said:

The Jets couldn’t establish the run game, play action didn’t work nobody ever bit.  It was our first year in a system with a rookie QB and most weapons either injured or also rookies.  Not hard to imagine that all can change this season.  You don’t see the Chiefs or 49ers getting pressed much when they are working that run game.

Again, when the receivers can’t defeat press it makes it harder to establish the run game because defenses don’t need to worry about getting beat by the pass games. The Chiefs aren’t a run first team and both teams have substantially better receiver groups.

I don’t think we’re going to agree here. You see the passing game improving because of the run game improving, I think the passing game needs to improve to allow the run game to hit its ceiling. The run game wasn’t that bad on a YPC basis and they still couldn’t beat press or man which in turn handcuffed the whole offense.

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4 minutes ago, Warfish said:

I was with you till that last line.

Who do you predict we're trading for, and at what cost?

Either Deebo or Metcalf, IMO.

I don’t buy that guys like Brown or McLaurin are realistically available, though I would prefer McLaurin the most and Brown the least out of the four.

As for cost, I would say #35 and #38 and the Jets get something like a 6th round pick in return plus said receiver.

I know a lot of people think we’ll have to give up #10 but I don’t buy it. I’ve had my issues with JD but he’s absolutely, positively proven to be, if nothing else, a shrewd negotiator who flatout refuses to get dicked over a barrel by anyone.

The Jets will end up with either Deebo or Metcalf and they’ll hang on to their two Top 10 picks this year in the process.

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On 4/17/2022 at 7:19 PM, Rangers9 said:

The Jets need a top receiver right now but if they decide to trade back in round 1 and he’s still there and he gets a good report from the medical team this guy might be worth the wait. I wouldn’t take him at either 4 or 10.

Trading back into round one is insane.  You can get 2 starters in round 2 (ie RB/LB)

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4 minutes ago, LIJetsFan said:

Trading back into round one is insane.  You can get 2 starters in round 2 (ie RB/LB)

You can still do that. You could give up your 3rd or 4th to hop into the tail end of the first and still keep pick 38. If you gave up both 2nd you'd be looking at the teens, I don't wanna go that high.

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18 minutes ago, Lupz27 said:

False they are until it doesn’t work or they fall behind.  Exactly, the Jets need their version of Hill go get him.

They threw the ball 62% of the time last year, sixth highest in the league, and they weren’t behind that often. Perhaps we have different definitions of run first or false.

Williams isn’t Hill. In fact, circling back to my original point about Williams, Hill has excelled against press coverage at the pro level.

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5 hours ago, FidelioJet said:

Yes, I absolutely think height matters.   Yes, 2 inches matter.  

Of course there are a myriad of other factors but height is certainly not a small one.

Yeah, it a very small one, no pun intended.

Problem is with both Wilson and Williams is they're both similar to Moore.

London is the better fit and more of what the Jets need IMO.  Not a redundant type of WR like Williams

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1 hour ago, Jet Nut said:

Yeah, it a very small one, no pun intended.

Problem is with both Wilson and Williams is they're both similar to Moore.

London is the better fit and more of what the Jets need IMO.  Not a redundant type of WR like Williams

Williams is a playmaking game breaker who is a threat to take any touch for 6.  The Jets don’t have one of those, Moore is great and all but not like Williams, Moore is the 3rd down guy when you need 7 for a first great route runner.

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3 hours ago, Untouchable said:

Jets fans need to get over this obsession with length at the receiver position.

Route running, the ability to separate, boundary recognition and the ability to reel it in during contested situations are what matters.

I’ll take a shade under 6’0 Garrett Wilson over a shade under 6’4 Drake London all day.

What good is your 6’4 frame on the outside if you run 4.7 and every pass outside the hashmarks is going to translate into a 50/50 ball? 

Speed kills, especially in the NFL.

There’s a reason the Jets were willing to give up two high 2nd’s, a high 3rd and dish out a $30 million a year contract for a 28 year old, 5’9 Tyreek Hill.

After that news coming to fruition, I don’t buy for a second that they would spend a Top 10 pick on a shot in the dark who is literally the exact opposite in every conceivable fashion.

We’re going to trade for a wideout within the next 10 days and all of this stuff will be moot anyway.

Prince Harry Mic Drop GIF

 

I'm with you.  Less concerned about height than I am weight though.  Some of these guys are light, like REALLY light (178 lbs?).  There are some durability concerns.  They're not all built like Braxton Berrios ya know. 😛

 

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11 minutes ago, Lupz27 said:

Williams is a playmaking game breaker who is a threat to take any touch for 6.  The Jets don’t have one of those, Moore is great and all but not like Williams, Moore is the 3rd down guy when you need 7 for a first great route runner.

I think you're underselling Moore quite a bit.  He's much more than just a 3rd down guy.

 

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3 hours ago, jetstream23 said:

I think you're underselling Moore quite a bit.  He's much more than just a 3rd down guy.

 

Agreed, I exaggerated for effect.  But my point stands as good as Moore is, I love him he isn’t what Jamo is, 6’2” below 4.3 speed.

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6 hours ago, Lupz27 said:

Williams is a playmaking game breaker who is a threat to take any touch for 6.  The Jets don’t have one of those, Moore is great and all but not like Williams, Moore is the 3rd down guy when you need 7 for a first great route runner.

He fills a role similar to Moore.   London doesnt play a similar game to Moore, he'd add a completely different look to the offense.  Not saying Moore and Williams are the same player but theyre games are closer to each others than London. 

I think we're going KT at 4 if hes there and WR at 10.  The real issue might be who Atlanta takes at 8.  Or if Atlanta doesnt take Williams or Wilson which one the Jets take.  

 

 

 

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9 hours ago, Untouchable said:

We’re going to trade for a wideout within the next 10 days and all of this stuff will be moot anyway.

I tend agree with this.

We've heard there are at least 3 maybe 4 trade offers in and it's certainly possible one of them agrees to take 35 and 38 (I really don't think 10 is on the table)   This will happen on Tues. or Wed next week.

I'm not saying it's a lock - but I would put slightly better than 50/50 on it.

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16 hours ago, FidelioJet said:

There's still 10 days left to the draft....

At this point a good ole fashion WR debate is really all we have left to talk about...

For the record - this is the "Jameson Williams" thread :-)

Yep. It's fun talking WRs. I think it all comes down to what 'type' of receiver the Jets want. It's tough to compare a tall, physical guy that can catch in traffic and be a red zone thread to a speedy guy that can run by you. It would be nice if they grabbed their top choice. I like JW but I would want to grab another receiver as insurance for early in the season. We lost Crowder and Cole from last season and haven't added any other WRs unless I'm forgetting someone. I also like Drake London because I think he was the most dominant of all the receivers when he was on the field. The guy was a beast and had over 1000 yards in less than 8 games!

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11 hours ago, LIJetsFan said:

Trading back into round one is insane.  You can get 2 starters in round 2 (ie RB/LB)

I agree what I meant was trading back in round 1 in other words getting extra picks for either our 4 or our 10. Actually I'd rather trade the 4 than the 10. 

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8 hours ago, Lupz27 said:

Williams is a playmaking game breaker who is a threat to take any touch for 6.  The Jets don’t have one of those, Moore is great and all but not like Williams, Moore is the 3rd down guy when you need 7 for a first great route runner.

If doctors clear Jamo for a full recovery no restrictions long term then I’d take him over Garrett Wilson or Drake London if all are there at 10.

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10 hours ago, derp said:

They threw the ball 62% of the time last year, sixth highest in the league, and they weren’t behind that often. Perhaps we have different definitions of run first or false.

Williams isn’t Hill. In fact, circling back to my original point about Williams, Hill has excelled against press coverage at the pro level.

No, Williams doesn't have the exact same skill-set as Hill - don't think anyone says they do. 

There are some things in Williams that project better than Hill did and vice versa.  They're different players.

When people compare them they're referencing the most important trait they have in common - the thing that most makes them both special - explosive speed.

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10 hours ago, Lupz27 said:

Williams is a playmaking game breaker who is a threat to take any touch for 6.  

Williams has play making ability, not here to suggest otherwise -- but this is flat out miscasting. Any touch? 70% of his production came out of 1 formation, running 2 routes. He's not this "take anything to the house" player that people keep suggesting imo. He has more in common with Will Fuller than he does Tyreek Hill. 

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51 minutes ago, Paradis said:

Williams has play making ability, not here to suggest otherwise -- but this is flat out miscasting. Any touch? 70% of his production came out of 1 formation, running 2 routes. He's not this "take anything to the house" player that people keep suggesting imo. He has more in common with Will Fuller than he does Tyreek Hill. 

DeSean Jackson is the best (lofty) comparison I’ve heard. 

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2 hours ago, FidelioJet said:

No, Williams doesn't have the exact same skill-set as Hill - don't think anyone says they do. 

There are some things in Williams that project better than Hill did and vice versa.  They're different players.

When people compare them they're referencing the most important trait they have in common - the thing that most makes them both special - explosive speed.

The history of the draft is littered with fast wide receivers who don’t produce at the pro level. I’m aware the comparison is made because they’re fast, but it’s still a poor comparison because there’s a lot that makes Hill special that Williams doesn’t have.

That comment was made in the context of a conversation that started with Williams’ struggles against press, which Hill happens to be great against, which made it extra nonsensical as a part of that exchange.

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2 hours ago, Joe W. Namath said:

Im at the point now where I think Williams is a lock for us at 10.  He will be the pick and should be.

I think if Thibs isn't available at 4 that changes everything, go OT at 4 and then EDGE at 10.

If Thibs is there at 4 I would be fairly confident that we got WR at 10.

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1 minute ago, Adoni Beast said:

I think if Thibs isn't available at 4 that changes everything, go OT at 4 and then EDGE at 10.

If Thibs is there at 4 I would be fairly confident that we got WR at 10.

Assuming the jets stay at 4 (and can’t swing a trade back with atl or car) i think it’s b/t thibs and ekongwu.  Tough to say who the jets like more but I’d say more thibs.  It’s easy to see a draft where they go thibs/wr.  But if they go OT at 4, they may not want to take an edge at 10 if there’s a run on the position, but still there’s enough of them to get one.

i think the question becomes if ekongwu, thibs and hutch are the top 3 picks, what do the jets do then?  You’d have to think the decision would then be between gardener and their favorite wr, which is probably wilson.  And if they pick either of them, they still need an edge with the next pick.  And if their draft goes gardener/JJ, that will really be a letdown for a lot of fans here and i can easily envision watching the rest of the first round hoping they’re going to trade up for olave and then going to sleep wondering how they plan on adding to the weapons on day 2.

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10 minutes ago, Adoni Beast said:

I think if Thibs isn't available at 4 that changes everything, go OT at 4 and then EDGE at 10.

If Thibs is there at 4 I would be fairly confident that we got WR at 10.

I think this is exactly right.

And I would guess, if they don't go WR at 10 they'll trade back into the first to get their WR.

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